Bournemouth 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

[benjii]

I'd give BBD a go through the middle. He's mobile, got a decent jump and clearly willing to try to buy some free kicks. 

--------------BBD------------

KWP--------------------Dibling

-------Fernandes--Lallana----

-------------Downes----------

Taylor-----Jan---THB---Suga

Rambo

 

PLEASE no triple substitution on 60 minutes. 

[egg]

30 minutes ago, benjii said:

I'd give BBD a go through the middle. He's mobile, got a decent jump and clearly willing to try to buy some free kicks. 

--------------BBD------------

KWP--------------------Dibling

-------Fernandes--Lallana----

-------------Downes----------

Taylor-----Jan---THB---Suga

Rambo

 

PLEASE no triple substitution on 60 minutes. 

BBD through the middle seems obvious to me. I wouldn't have KwP on the left up top though, but I think Dibling would do well over there, and there's a case for KwP wide right working in tandem with Suga. 

[Greedyfly]

13 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

If you like. You seem to have an affection for arguments, so I guess you would know oh wise one. 

Correct. 

[Totton Saint]

24 minutes ago, egg said:

BBD through the middle seems obvious to me. I wouldn't have KwP on the left up top though, but I think Dibling would do well over there, and there's a case for KwP wide right working in tandem with Suga. 

Who is BDD please?

[egg]

24 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Who is BDD please?

Brereton Diaz

[SuperSaintWill]

Dibling Archer Stewart. Bench the Yeti.

[Greedyfly]

4 minutes ago, SuperSaintWill said:

Dibling Archer Stewart. Bench the Yeti.

That is what I'd run but Stewart up the middle and Archer left/right

[Mr X]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Brereton Diaz

Bloody Dire Diaz! 😂😉

[saintant]

Assuming Wolves lose to Liverpool and Ipswich lose to Villa a win on Monday would see us leap into 15th! We can dream 🙂

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

2 hours ago, Mr X said:

Bloody Dire Diaz! 😂😉

Must admit, so far he has shown you don't get much for £7m these days. Would rather have Ross Stewart as the target man in the middle, though haven't loss faith in Archer so he would be my first choice as man in the middle. Cornet seems ok and with Dibling/Fernandes running in from deep, I can see us scoring a goal or two. 

As someone has posted, win this and in one game our season looks a whole lot better

[Galway saint]

Hopefully the boys preparations won’t be disrupted by Cardiff scoring,

meaning we are now joint bottom in the four leagues for goals scored.

However looks like tranmere or salford could get dragged into it so all to play for 

[Galway saint]

There was a stat during the wolves game saying we have conceded 5 goals from set pieces in 5 games and the league  average is 1.5 ! Seems a damning indictment of how we set up to defend set pieces, the ipswich goal being a prime example 

 

[lambtiss]

1 hour ago, Galway saint said:

There was a stat during the wolves game saying we have conceded 5 goals from set pieces in 5 games and the league  average is 1.5 ! Seems a damning indictment of how we set up to defend set pieces, the ipswich goal being a prime example 

We had a set piece coach who left the club at the end of 2023. I'm not sure if we appointed a replacement. 

[ErwinK1961]

8 hours ago, SuperSaintWill said:

Dibling Archer Stewart. Bench the Yeti.

 

8 hours ago, Greedyfly said:

That is what I'd run but Stewart up the middle and Archer left/right

Bench Diaz, who looks like a fish out of water out wide, and replace him with another striker, who hasn’t/doesn’t play out wide? 

[SaintsBarry74]

Should aim for at least 70% possession for this, assert our dominance from the start.

[Charlie Wayman]

15 hours ago, saintant said:

Assuming Wolves lose to Liverpool and Ipswich lose to Villa a win on Monday would see us leap into 15th! We can dream 🙂

One small step first please.

[saintant]

Ramsdale

Sugawara THB Bednarek Taylor

Big Les Downes

Dibling Lallana Fernandes

Archer

Edited 29 September, 2024 by saintant

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

21 minutes ago, saintant said:

Ramsdale

Sugawara THB Bednarek Taylor

Big Les Downes

Dibling Lallana Fernands

Archer

This set up could be a little narrow. Despite his sub par performances in recent games, I would still like to see KWP in the team with his ability to run down the wing.

[Football Special]

Having watched a few Bournemouth games this season I sense we're the perfect opponent for them, they like to press and play with energy, can't see us avoiding a silly mistake. 

Miss the days of the crowd cheering half time score updates at The Dell if the Cherries were winning and having a whip round to help keep the club alive. They still owe us for Neil Moss signing that keep them afloat. 

Has David Brooks featured for them at all? 

[Highfield Saint]

They are very confident about this one. In their opinion we have poor players, play a style that suits them perfectly and that their baying horde will intimidate to the extent that our players will either freeze or, in Fraser’s case, not want to play 

I’m not sure that 9,000 nerds working out xg on a real time basis is that intimidating or that we won’t continue to modify the way we play to adjust to the way they play  

Tinpot fans, shit ground and club going through its own Icarus moment before going back to its level 

 

[for_heaven's_Saint]

16 minutes ago, Highfield Saint said:

They are very confident about this one. In their opinion we have poor players, play a style that suits them perfectly and that their baying horde will intimidate to the extent that our players will either freeze or, in Fraser’s case, not want to play 

 

In our last 6 games there we have won 4 and drawn 2 so I'm not sure where they've got that idea.

As for the first 2 points, they are probably right.  RM himself said it's basically a game of high press vs playing out from the back.  Given that they have better players than us, I can only see it going badly for us.  I'd like to see some height up the middle so that we can play longer and actually hold it up.

[saintant]

26 minutes ago, for_heaven's_Saint said:

In our last 6 games there we have won 4 and drawn 2 so I'm not sure where they've got that idea.

As for the first 2 points, they are probably right.  RM himself said it's basically a game of high press vs playing out from the back.  Given that they have better players than us, I can only see it going badly for us.  I'd like to see some height up the middle so that we can play longer and actually hold it up.

Playing out from the back is not sensible unless you are excellent at it. Most teams, including us, are not so it is suicidal as we see in game after game. Along with plenty of other sides we need to stop trying to do what we are incapable of doing. Until RM and his coaches accept this and change tact we will continue to be a soft touch and easy to beat.

[Gingeletiss]

8 minutes ago, saintant said:

Playing out from the back is not sensible unless you are excellent at it. Most teams, including us, are not so it is suicidal as we see in game after game. Along with plenty of other sides we need to stop trying to do what we are incapable of doing. Until RM and his coaches accept this and change tact we will continue to be a soft touch and easy to beat.

In a nutshell. I am not necessarily after him to be sacked, I just want him to change this suicidal boring back passing style of football. 

[Totton Saint]

21 hours ago, egg said:

Brereton Diaz

Thanks 

[Greedyfly]

12 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

 

Bench Diaz, who looks like a fish out of water out wide, and replace him with another striker, who hasn’t/doesn’t play out wide? 

Sure I don't love it either but the alternative is go to 442 or leave Archer as a loan striker which I don't like.  BBD has/does play out wide and that hasn't worked and Archer doesn't give you "goals goals goals" but does look to have some pace about him at least, hence trying him as a wide option.  I actually wish we'd just go with the soul loan striker and an actual wide player, making us a bit more robust in midfield (and thus hoping this has a knock on affect with our defence), but the issues there are we have a) no wide player on that side and b) no decent number 9.

 

I think the fact that no one really can pick a decent attack speaks volumes.

Edited 29 September, 2024 by Greedyfly

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Playing out from the back is not sensible unless you are excellent at it. Most teams, including us, are not so it is suicidal as we see in game after game. Along with plenty of other sides we need to stop trying to do what we are incapable of doing. Until RM and his coaches accept this and change tact we will continue to be a soft touch and easy to beat.

I understand the sentiment, however it’s not playing out from the back that’s the problem - many teams do this even in the lower leagues. The problem is the endless recycling back and across in front of our penalty area not taking responsibility to move the ball forwards…THAT’S the problem. The coaching applied to the system with regards to transitioning from goalkeeper to midfield is extremely sub-standard - it invites pressure (which is part of the reason for the system), but has no clear flags that enable the players to make the right decisions to move into the next phase.

Having no real target man doesn’t help, because at the times a defender needs to clear the ball rather than lose it anyway to a pressing mob, there’s no options…it’s pass backwards or lose the ball. It makes the players lives easier - i.e. it’s not my problem it’s yours, now I’ve passed it to you, rather than taking responsibility to turn and pass the ball forwards.

Yes there is risk in employing Russball, but the risk factor is amplified several-fold because the phase after the initial play-out is flawed.  The quality of the players we have may be partly to blame perhaps, but in my mind 90% of it is in (lack of) decent coaching.

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Greedyfly said:

The issues there are we have a) no wide player on that side 

Fraser and Cornet both play in that position

[bangkoksaint]

Right I’ll stick my tin hat on……….Bournemouth - a small seaside town, local fans with a tiny stadium punching well above their weight in the richest league in the world. Obviously I want us to be better than them and win but I don’t look down on them and they should be applauded for upsetting any status quo for the big boys

[saintant]

56 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I understand the sentiment, however it’s not playing out from the back that’s the problem - many teams do this even in the lower leagues. The problem is the endless recycling back and across in front of our penalty area not taking responsibility to move the ball forwards…THAT’S the problem. The coaching applied to the system with regards to transitioning from goalkeeper to midfield is extremely sub-standard - it invites pressure (which is part of the reason for the system), but has no clear flags that enable the players to make the right decisions to move into the next phase.

Having no real target man doesn’t help, because at the times a defender needs to clear the ball rather than lose it anyway to a pressing mob, there’s no options…it’s pass backwards or lose the ball. It makes the players lives easier - i.e. it’s not my problem it’s yours, now I’ve passed it to you, rather than taking responsibility to turn and pass the ball forwards.

Yes there is risk in employing Russball, but the risk factor is amplified several-fold because the phase after the initial play-out is flawed.  The quality of the players we have may be partly to blame perhaps, but in my mind 90% of it is in (lack of) decent coaching.

This is part of playing out from the back the way we and other teams do it. The premise behind doing it properly is to draw out the opposition and then quickly occupy the space vacated. We don't do this because, as you say, we tend to play a stream of pointless passes across and in front of our penalty area, thereby negating any advantage to us.  I agree that most of our issues with this style of play are down to inadequate coaching which we are stuck with unless the owners decide to make changes which I think is unlikely. 

[Lone ranger]

5 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

This set up could be a little narrow. Despite his sub par performances in recent games, I would still like to see KWP in the team with his ability to run down the wing.

KWP is not a very good defender but he’s a great winghalf /winger. Let him do what he’s good at. Horses for courses!

 

[bangkoksaint]

I honestly believe that if Pep suddenly decided that long ball with old fashioned crosses at every opportunity was the way forward the other ‘sheep’ managers like RM would adopt this tactic.

[Greedyfly]

3 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

Fraser and Cornet both play in that position

I actually had forgotten about Cornet so fair enough. Though I can't say whether he's actually any good or not. 

 

Fraser is just meh when he starts, it seems, but a great impact sub. 

[Lighthouse]

3 hours ago, bangkoksaint said:

I honestly believe that if Pep suddenly decided that long ball with old fashioned crosses at every opportunity was the way forward the other ‘sheep’ managers like RM would adopt this tactic.

Where has this myth that passing football started with Pep, and that everyone just wants to copy him, come from? Spain dominated football from 2007-2012 playing a neat, passing, possesion based game, when Pep was coaching Barcelona's reserves. They weren't even the first team to do it then either.

Ralph and Poch played a pressing game, Jones was direct and old-school, Martin's teams pass and keep possession. We've seen all three of those strategies fail when not played correctly, there's no 'correct' game plan.

[Mr X]

7 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

In a nutshell. I am not necessarily after him to be sacked, I just want him to change this suicidal boring back passing style of football. 

And actually win some games? 😂

[The Cat]

20 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Where has this myth that passing football started with Pep, and that everyone just wants to copy him, come from? Spain dominated football from 2007-2012 playing a neat, passing, possesion based game, when Pep was coaching Barcelona's reserves. They weren't even the first team to do it then either.

Ralph and Poch played a pressing game, Jones was direct and old-school, Martin's teams pass and keep possession. We've seen all three of those strategies fail when not played correctly, there's no 'correct' game plan.

It's almost as if there isn't a perfect tactical strategy and most trophies and success are based on teams spending more money on transfers and wages than others.

I don't remember anyone saying Poch was a sheep because he was influenced by Bielsa's style but apparently anyone who prefers their teams to play possession football has their tongue lodged firmly up Guardiola's ring.

[Midfield_General]

And Sky Sports announces that their guest in the studio for Bournemouth vs. Saints will be… Graham Potter!

Interesting. 

[Osvaldorama]

12 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

And Sky Sports announces that their guest in the studio for Bournemouth vs. Saints will be… Graham Potter!

Interesting. 

Get him in the dugout not the studio 

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

Get him in the dugout not the studio 

Be intrigued to see if he could get a tune out of this squad in this league. It's a fucking tough job.

[Zorba]

SSDD 3-0 Cherries

75% possession, 100% borefest.

xG 6, aG 0. xGA 0.03, aGA 3

Bottom of the League by 10pm.

#Wesleepwalkon

Edited 29 September, 2024 by Zorba

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

Get him in the dugout not the studio 

Perhaps Saints could have a guest manager each week , Ten Hag could be available next week 😁

Edited 29 September, 2024 by East Kent Saint

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Perhaps Saints could have a guest manager each week , Ten Hag could be available next week 😁

That might work, SR do like to think outside the box when it comes to managers

[Saint Fan CaM]

11 hours ago, saintant said:

This is part of playing out from the back the way we and other teams do it. The premise behind doing it properly is to draw out the opposition and then quickly occupy the space vacated. We don't do this because, as you say, we tend to play a stream of pointless passes across and in front of our penalty area, thereby negating any advantage to us.  I agree that most of our issues with this style of play are down to inadequate coaching which we are stuck with unless the owners decide to make changes which I think is unlikely. 

Yeah but that’s my point - it’s not necessarily part of playing out from the back. If we transitioned the ball forwards more successfully more often, the fewer opportunities would be presented to the oppo’s press because we’d moved the ball forward faster. We play out at such a pedestrian pace the opposition press is allowed to build to a point where the options to get out of the press are next to none and our players are then panicked into a mistake. 

The media commentators tend to simplify everything by stating that Russball equals ‘possession football’ or indeed ‘playing out from the back’ and so that’s what needs to be changed, which may be true in essence, but it does nothing to address the actual problem. In my opinion this is pandering to a lack of responsibility being shown by the coaching team. Classic pre-cursor to a managerial sacking.

Edited 29 September, 2024 by Saint Fan CaM

[Mr X]

21 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

That might work, SR do like to think outside the box when it comes to managers

The don't just think outside the box sometimes they think outside of reality!  especially with the selles and Jones appointments, and it may prove that RM isn't quite ready for the premier league either.  They have a really bad track record. 

[Dr Who?]

I used to look forward to playing Bournemouth as we always used to beat them, but the last few times there is a noticeable gap in quality. They are not great at the moment but think they will have the beating of us on home turf 3-1.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Yeah but that’s my point - it’s not necessarily part of playing out from the back. If we transitioned the ball forwards more successfully more often, the fewer opportunities would be presented to the oppo’s press because we’d moved the ball forward faster. We play out at such a pedestrian pace the opposition press is allowed to build to a point where the options to get out of the press are next to none and our players are then panicked into a mistake. 

The media commentators tend to simplify everything by stating that Russball equals ‘possession football’ or indeed ‘playing out front the back’ and so that’s what needs to be changed, which may be true in essence, but it does nothing to address the actual problem. In my opinion this is pandering to a lack of responsibility being shown by the coaching team. Classic pre-cursor to a managerial sacking.

It seems we are in total agreement.

[suewhistle]

1 hour ago, Zorba said:

SSDD 3-0 Cherries

75% possession, 100% borefest.

xG 6,aG 0. xGA 0.03, aGA 3

 

That's all Greek to me..

[Dark Munster]

23 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

That's all Greek to me..

Let me explain:

hth 

[Andy Hill]

No chance that we will win this. Home banker. We seem to have accumulated a set of forwards that would struggle in the Championship never mind the Premier League.

[bpsaint]

10 hours ago, bangkoksaint said:

Right I’ll stick my tin hat on……….Bournemouth - a small seaside town, local fans with a tiny stadium punching well above their weight in the richest league in the world. Obviously I want us to be better than them and win but I don’t look down on them and they should be applauded for upsetting any status quo for the big boys

And so far ahead of us as a club in so many ways now. Likewise Brighton.

Mental really.

[Micky]

Can't see anything other than a home win.  Annoyingly you know they won't have to work hard for the points, we'll gift them goals and give ourselves a mountain to climb.  Cherries 3 Saints 0.