Bournemouth 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

[John B]

  On 30/09/2024 at 21:46, Wiggles31 said:

That is nonsense. We are short a CF but other than that we have a team strong enough yo try and stay up. This squad is better than the last BPL squad we had. It’s the manager that is shite. 

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You must be joking you have no idea we have Archer and BBD as strikers I can assure your we have never had such poor ones in the last sixty years.

 

Unlike you I have been very lucky to see good Saints Strikers like Ron Davies Martin Chivers Micky Channon Peter Osgood Phil Boyer Ted McDougal Steve Moran Keegan Alan Shearer Worthington Danny Wallace MLT Beattie Pharas and probably Lambert Mane Pelle 

I wont bore you with a list of creative players but I saw two world cup winning players Paine and Ball in Saints teams too

[Morse]

The only question the board needs to ask itself is whether to sack RM now or after the Arsenal game. 

And the only question Dragan needs to ask himself is whether he wants Rasmus and co involved in recruiting the replacement.  

[Saint Fan CaM]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:04, beatlesaint said:

Oh he was but it was in the second half after the match was lost and comparing him with most of them today it’s a low bar to be one of the better ones.

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  On 30/09/2024 at 22:04, aintforever said:

That’s because pretty much the whole squad is Championship level.

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Coached by an inept management team that are mid-Championship level at best.

[OttawaSaint]

  On 30/09/2024 at 21:49, Wiggles31 said:

The squad we have is more than capable of staying up. There is some utter dross in the BPL this year. The manager is the issue and if we make the right appointment we can compete. We’ve got one point yet nowhere near cut adrift. Shows what a poor league the BPL has become. 

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I think so too. A better manager gets a tune out of this squad.

[OttawaSaint]

  On 30/09/2024 at 21:50, trousers said:

Didn't someone post recently that Russ was given effective control and/or final say on recruitment this summer...?

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I wouldn't give him control of a playstation let alone a team...

[LGTL]

I still can’t get my head around it. 5 strikers on the bench and he plays Dibling up there 😂😂😂😂

[Winnersaint]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:05, John B said:

You must be joking you have no idea we have Archer and BBD as strikers I can assure your we have never had such poor ones in the last sixty years.

 

Unlike you I have been very lucky to see good Saints Strikers like Ron Davies Martin Chivers Micky Channon Peter Osgood Phil Boyer Ted McDougal Steve Moran Keegan Alan Shearer Worthington Danny Wallace MLT Beattie Pharas and probably Lambert Mane Pelle 

I wont bore you with a list of creative players but I saw two world cup winning players Paine and Ball in Saints teams too

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Like you I saw all them play for Saints, but it doesn't help in the here and now, in a world where instant gratification reigns supreme 

 

 

 

 

 

[hypochondriac]

Personally I think they might give him the Leicester game. If he doesn't win that then there's no chance really and he will be gone. 

[Harry_SFC]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:21, hypochondriac said:

Personally I think they might give him the Leicester game. If he doesn't win that then there's no chance really and he will be gone. 

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Agreed. If we can't beat Leicester then there's no way we can waste the Wolves and Everton games with him in charge. 

[bugenhagen]

I wasn't paying close attention tonight, but surprised I missed this:

The changes had an instant impact with Saints needing less than five minutes to pull a goal back, Harwood-Bellis adjusting well to stoop down and head in from Fabrice Fernandes' cross for his first Premier League goal.

https://www.skysports.com/football/bournemouth-vs-southampton/report/505858

We are so bad at creating anything that we needed a cross from 20 years ago to score?

Edited 30 September, 2024 by bugenhagen

[OttawaSaint]

He'll start with top scorers THB and Suga up front with Dibs behind them.

 

[sandwichsaint]

  On 30/09/2024 at 21:44, SfcPhil said:

It all went downhill when he started dating Lucy Pinder. Looks like she picked the starting line up tonight as well.

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Nothing up top, two false ones, and a gaping hole at the back;  you could be on to something here.

[Galway saint]

to be fair none of the promoted teams have to date won a game but we look the worst of the three after the weekend games 

[OttawaSaint]

I was watching at my desk at work, my office mate doesn't play football, has never really watched it, doesn't really know much about it. He wheeled his chair over and asked, "which one is southampton, yellow?". I nodded and he followed up with, "this is probably a really stupid question, but why do they run and pass so slowly, then back to those guys, who also run and pass slowly, isn't the goal quite far from them?".

Yep, a 35 year old Physics teacher with no experience of football knows more than our "manager". Ugh!

Edited 30 September, 2024 by OttawaSaint

[OttawaSaint]

Pinder must be close to firing him. Too much wanking around at the back and refusing to stick one into the box.

[pimpin4rizeal]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:10, Morse said:

The only question the board needs to ask itself is whether to sack RM now or after the Arsenal game. 

And the only question Dragan needs to ask himself is whether he wants Rasmus and co involved in recruiting the replacement.  

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Problem is with this silly multi club set up us doing poorly isn’t the end of the world for SR, we are not the be all and end all and dragan has obviously bought into this ..

as for Martin no way is this gonna work, I think he slightly underachieved last season on league form considering it was mainly a premiership squad with a few premiership loans like Fraser downes thb brookes etc we looked shaky last year pretty often and now we are no longer superior to the opposition Martin has no answer .. probably thinks he’s gonna do a kompany playing his ineffective passing game  needs to go asap

[bpsaint]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:24, bugenhagen said:

I wasn't paying close attention tonight, but surprised I missed this:

The changes had an instant impact with Saints needing less than five minutes to pull a goal back, Harwood-Bellis adjusting well to stoop down and head in from Fabrice Fernandes' cross for his first Premier League goal.

https://www.skysports.com/football/bournemouth-vs-southampton/report/505858

We are so bad at creating anything that we needed a cross from 20 years ago to score?

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That’s how long Fabrice used to spend  going round in circles before crossing tbf

[Midfield_General]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:19, LGTL said:

I still can’t get my head around it. 5 strikers on the bench and he plays Dibling up there 😂😂😂😂

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Not only that - we actually played two up top in a 4-4-2, and with 5 actual strikers on the bench the two we played in the striker positions were an out of position winger and an out of position midfielder.

Not only was it mad in terms of weakening the forward line, but it was a double-whammy in that it also removed two of the only other bright spots we've had this season, namely Dibling on the right and Fernandes in midfield. 

I literally can't begin to understand the thought process for doing that. It doesn't make sense on any level at all. It's absurd. 

[bugenhagen]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:37, bpsaint said:

That’s how long Fabrice used to spend  going round in circles before crossing tbf

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So we can hope for a few more crosses coming in from him this season then?

[OttawaSaint]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:38, Midfield_General said:

Not only that - we actually played two up top in a 4-4-2, and with 5 actual strikers on the bench the two we played in the striker positions were an out of position winger and an out of position midfielder.

Not only was it mad in terms of weakening the forward line, but it was a double-whammy in that it also removed two of the only other bright spots we've had this season, namely Dibling on the right and Fernandes in midfield. 

I literally can't begin to understand the thought process for doing that. It doesn't make sense on any level at all. It's absurd. 

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It is utterly absurd and shows that he's run out of ideas. He's a former defender who can't even coach defenders. What hope do the mids and forwards have? 

His "system" didn't work at his other clubs and only got us promoted because our squad had players in who could score at championship level to helpn us win 4-3, 5-3, or 3-2. 

You simply can't do that in the EPL with championship level strikers against teams with EPL defenders and EPL strikers. Was never, ever going to work.

New guy could come in, get us solid at the back and difficult to play against. We might still struggle for goals but we sure as shit won't be giving teams 2-0, 3-0 head starts.

[lhammondo]

  On 30/09/2024 at 21:49, Wiggles31 said:

The squad we have is more than capable of staying up. There is some utter dross in the BPL this year. The manager is the issue and if we make the right appointment we can compete. We’ve got one point yet nowhere near cut adrift. Shows what a poor league the BPL has become. 

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Have to disagree with this statement. This squad is nowhere near good enough to stay up, unfortunately. I posted it on the new manager thread, but there aren't 3 teams worse than us, in fact it remains to be seen if wolves are worse than us. Sad state of affairs....

[suewhistle]

Well, after that shit show I had an extra pint whilst I chatted with the locals in a local village pub rather than leave immediately in a completely shitty football mood, so I've had more on a Monday night than for many years.. I don't feel the same way about Martin as I did about Branfoot or Jones but I really think he's lost the dressing room, as they say. He certainly hasn't got the raw ingredients to work with - how have Bournemouth bought their first goal scorer tonight for about twice our highest priced player - but I think a change is necessary as he certainly is not getting the best out of our players..

As an aside I thought Aribo brought some much needed strength in midfield, and Lallana was a useful addition but patently not fit enough as a starter.

 

 

 

[Sheaf Saint]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:49, OttawaSaint said:

New guy could come in, get us solid at the back and difficult to play against. We might still struggle for goals but we sure as shit won't be giving teams 2-0, 3-0 head starts.

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[Thripp87]

  On 30/09/2024 at 21:09, Saint86 said:

PSR. Basically stops relegation by default. We were just unlucky enough to go down as it came in. 

Clubs that get relegated get wrecked by the turmoil it causes, then get promoted and can't spend the same as the worst surviving prem club. And clubs coming up from lower leagues (that avoid that mess) don't have the infastructure to really threaten because it takes years of funding to establish squad depth, commercial revenues, and quality training / academy setups. 

PSR is one foot into the world of removing relegation. 

 

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Likes of Fulham seem to be doing a pretty good job of it.

[Nemi]

  On 30/09/2024 at 21:56, beatlesaint said:

Totally agree, Aribo’s level is Championship, simple as that.

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Easily one of our better players tonight and has been totally fine in all the other games he’s played this season too. 
He’s got a weird agenda about him just cause his technique is a bit unsophisticated, but he’s one of our few players who can receive the ball from defence and not get hustled off it - meaning we aren’t just passing straight back to the defence and putting them under pressure.
We were going absolutely nowhere in the first half - Ryan Christie was completely bullying everyone - at least Aribo had enough physicality to hold the ball up and drive us forward. 
Ok I’m going to exaggerate a bit here - but if he was a loanee from Chelsea coming on and putting in that performance everyone would be waxing lyrical, but because it’s Aribo people just look at his clunky style and assume he’s crap. I call it the Wan-Bissaka effect.

 

Edited 30 September, 2024 by Nemi

[Viking Saint]

  On 30/09/2024 at 20:46, a1ex2001 said:

We always win on possession it is RM’s flex.  Surely he’s getting fired in the morning I’d rather have big sam or moyes at the helm at least we might see a bit of fight then instead of this limp nonsense!

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Just no

[Bad Wolf]

  On 30/09/2024 at 19:35, SambaMaverick said:

It's deflected about five yards in front of him you dumb cunt

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What's your point? Fucking pikey.

[Vancouver Saint]

Had client meetings so watched a recording later. OMG how bad are we? That first half has to be the worst we've played for ages - and we've had some pretty bad performances. We are a laughing stock...'stupid football' playing out of the back from our goalline against more skilful opposition that know if they press us we'll cough it up to them in our own third. 

And to keep doing it again and again and again...doh!

We actually had the better of the first 10 minutes and it looked promising. But we completely deflated after that stupid first goal. And how are we ever going to win if we have no threat going forward? 

What really worries me is the lack of fight...we lost pretty much every 50:50 scrap in midfield. When we did get the ball to run with it there were few options (Dibbling would beat three men and look up for the pass that wasn't there).

We have no plan. BBD is not the answer to any question I can think of except "who dives at every opportunity, hides on the wing, can't score and hasn't won a Premier League game in 21 starts?"...hmmm

Positives? Thought Charlie Taylor was our MotM. Aribo was good when he came on. Lallana classy but not the solution. Lesley good. Stewart put a shift in.

I've been prepared to give RM the benefit of the doubt up to this point but enough is enough. Our back line are not comfortable enough with the ball at their feet to pay this high-risk pass-it-around the back stupid football. Do they realise we cannot score from our own third...but we can give it away to the opposition high up the pitch...and do, frequently. The number of time the tippy-tappy at the back ended up with a boot up the line where Bournemouth would lap it up and come back again. We can't defend set pieces. We defend way too deep. We seem to have given up our own high press. We have no target man striker (perhaps a match-fit Stewart)...we don't play KWP or ABK...! 

 

[Wade Garrett]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:24, Harry_SFC said:

Agreed. If we can't beat Leicester then there's no way we can waste the Wolves and Everton games with him in charge. 

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We couldn’t beat Forest, Brentford, Ipswich or Bournemouth.

Enough is enough, no more chances.

[AlexLaw76]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:38, Midfield_General said:

Not only that - we actually played two up top in a 4-4-2, and with 5 actual strikers on the bench the two we played in the striker positions were an out of position winger and an out of position midfielder.

Not only was it mad in terms of weakening the forward line, but it was a double-whammy in that it also removed two of the only other bright spots we've had this season, namely Dibling on the right and Fernandes in midfield. 

I literally can't begin to understand the thought process for doing that. It doesn't make sense on any level at all. It's absurd. 

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And he then gets all pissy when asked about 5 strikers on the bench

He is losing it, sadly. No idea how to turn it around.

[Cabrone]

RM was an average champ mgr who got lucky and is now drowning.

There is no learning curve, no understanding of what he's up against and how to deal with it. Week in week out it's the same failing tactics.

Why wait any longer? Get someone in who can work with what we have and mold at least a team that is hard to beat.

With the right guy I still think we have a shot at survival especially as I think it's going to be a low points threshold this season.

Stick with RM and I think we'll be effectively down by Xmas.

 

 

 

 

 

[StrangelyBrown]

"we discussed no tactics at half time" - sums it up 100%. He's literally taken no ownership for the the way we set-up and has put it all on a lack of character from the players.

Just an idea, but perhaps the players didn't have any belief because we were set up to lose from the start?

RM is starting to show Nathan Jones levels of delusion.

[drd]

I thought Aribo and Lallana were good for you, and Dibling has talent, but maybe not as CF.

Fraser was brilliantly rubbish, but looks like Messi compared to BBD

You have to bin off Martin to give you any chance of survival, playing those tactics against our pressing game was suicidal. 

[Football Special]

  On 01/10/2024 at 04:49, Cabrone said:

RM was an average champ mgr who got lucky and is now drowning.

There is no learning curve, no understanding of what he's up against and how to deal with it. Week in week out it's the same failing tactics.

Why wait any longer? Get someone in who can work with what we have and mold at least a team that is hard to beat.

With the right guy I still think we have a shot at survival especially as I think it's going to be a low points threshold this season.

Stick with RM and I think we'll be effectively down by Xmas.

 

 

 

 

 

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We're already down I'm afraid, there's no way this team scores enough goals to have a chance. 

I thought we played ok in spells last night but still painfully slow moving the ball forward, just makes it so easy to defend against. 

I'll take no pleasure from Martin getting sacked but it does seem a case of when not if. 

Fans arguing with each other in away end last night, it's really having a demoralising affect on the fan base,  I'm old enough to not be surprised anymore but feel sorry for the young nippers who want to wear their saints shirts proudly and have to put up with shit from the usual premier league glory hunting fans. At the moment we face a season of breaking all the wrong records. 

[Farmer Saint]

  On 30/09/2024 at 21:09, Saint86 said:

PSR. Basically stops relegation by default. We were just unlucky enough to go down as it came in. 

Clubs that get relegated get wrecked by the turmoil it causes, then get promoted and can't spend the same as the worst surviving prem club. And clubs coming up from lower leagues (that avoid that mess) don't have the infastructure to really threaten because it takes years of funding to establish squad depth, commercial revenues, and quality training / academy setups. 

PSR is one foot into the world of removing relegation. 

 

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Yup - been banging this drum since last Summer but no-one has been listening. 

[Farmer Saint]

  On 30/09/2024 at 21:26, vectraman said:

If we bought 4 quality players rather than 8 squad players it would help. All we did was bloat out the squad with championship standard players. Ramsdale was quality and it clearly shows. Nobody else we bought was proven prem quality. Also shows. 
Budget team, budget manager. Absolutely no hope of staying up. Leicester and wolves will both beat us. 

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I don't think that was the choice though, the choice was more like 2 or 3 quality players versus the 8 we brought in. And then our squad would be threadbare. Don't forget its both transfer fee AND wages. 

PSR has fucked us, but always was going to - it's why I said last season, over and over, that getting promoted was not the best thing for the club. To compete in the PL now you need at least 2 years in the Championship with a strong core of a team. 

[Football Special]

  On 01/10/2024 at 06:11, Farmer Saint said:

I don't think that was the choice though, the choice was more like 2 or 3 quality players versus the 8 we brought in. And then our squad would be threadbare. Don't forget its both transfer fee AND wages. 

PSR has fucked us, but always was going to - it's why I said last season, over and over, that getting promoted was not the best thing for the club. To compete in the PL now you need at least 2 years in the Championship with a strong core of a team. 

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Clearly we have quantity over quality. Crazy having 5 forwards on the bench. We spent a lot cumulatively so no one player exceeded wage structure but still end up with big wage bill and several players on big money not even in the squad, it's poor management by the club. 

[Harry_SFC]

  On 01/10/2024 at 05:47, Football Special said:

We're already down I'm afraid, there's no way this team scores enough goals to have a chance. 

I thought we played ok in spells last night but still painfully slow moving the ball forward, just makes it so easy to defend against. 

I'll take no pleasure from Martin getting sacked but it does seem a case of when not if. 

Fans arguing with each other in away end last night, it's really having a demoralising affect on the fan base,  I'm old enough to not be surprised anymore but feel sorry for the young nippers who want to wear their saints shirts proudly and have to put up with shit from the usual premier league glory hunting fans. At the moment we face a season of breaking all the wrong records. 

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I agree I just can't see where the goals are going to come from but if you know youre not going to score many you HAVE to then make yourself harder to beat. Try and grind out a few 0-0s or nick a 1-0 from a set piece (THB will score goals as we've seen). Absolutely no chance we can do that under Martin.

 

[Farmer Saint]

  On 01/10/2024 at 06:16, Football Special said:

Clearly we have quantity over quality. Crazy having 5 forwards on the bench. We spent a lot cumulatively so no one player exceeded wage structure but still end up with big wage bill and several players on big money not even in the squad, it's poor management by the club. 

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But we can't do anything about it - poor purchases from 2 years ago are fucking us and we can't get rid of them. It's the PSR cycle for relegated teams. 

£80m to spend on 8 players and average wage of £50k pw - let's say we reduced that to 6 players, we don't end up with anything particularly better. 

Edited 1 October, 2024 by Farmer Saint

[Football Special]

  On 01/10/2024 at 06:17, Harry_SFC said:

I agree I just can't see where the goals are going to come from but if you know youre not going to score many you HAVE to then make yourself harder to beat. Try and grind out a few 0-0s or nick a 1-0 from a set piece (THB will score goals as we've seen). Absolutely no chance we can do that under Martin.

 

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Yeah I agree, the Ipswich home game was so nearly the "nick a 1-0" but I can't see many more of those, other managers will really enjoy coming up against this Martin team, so easy to play against 

[rooney]

6 games in and our system does not create many goal scoring opportunities.When we have an isolated chance, we do not have the quality to finish.Nailed on relegation if this continues.

[PJ]

Rarely post here. A few days ago my 7 year old said to me "why do I support Southampton? Can't I support Arsenal"?

We live in Essex, he's never lived in Southampton, we have no family there anymore, and so he has no connection with Saints apart from through me. We go to St Marys when we can. Long all-round trip. Honestly, after watching last night with him on TV, I felt guilty that he supports saints. He doesn't enjoy the games, and why would he? He's 7 and wants to see his team score goals - or at least take a shot every now and then...

I'm really close to letting him choose who he wants to support. Arsenal or whoever.  

Maybe a poll on here: should I force my son to keep supporting saints, or let him enjoy football instead?

[Football Special]

  On 01/10/2024 at 06:43, PJ said:

Rarely post here. A few days ago my 7 year old said to me "why do I support Southampton? Can't I support Arsenal"?

We live in Essex, he's never lived in Southampton, we have no family there anymore, and so he has no connection with Saints apart from through me. We go to St Marys when we can. Long all-round trip. Honestly, after watching last night with him on TV, I felt guilty that he supports saints. He doesn't enjoy the games, and why would he? He's 7 and wants to see his team score goals - or at least take a shot every now and then...

I'm really close to letting him choose who he wants to support. Arsenal or whoever.  

Maybe a poll on here: should I force my son to keep supporting saints, or let him enjoy football instead?

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Get a fucking grip man, of course he should support Saints. 

Did you take him to Wembley? I took mine and the buzz of that day will stay with them for life. 

Life of ups and mainly downs but give me that over soulless glory hunting any day. 

Try taking him to your local non-league side if he wants another team to attach to. 

[Charlie Wayman]

  On 30/09/2024 at 22:05, John B said:

You must be joking you have no idea we have Archer and BBD as strikers I can assure your we have never had such poor ones in the last sixty years.

 

Unlike you I have been very lucky to see good Saints Strikers like Ron Davies Martin Chivers Micky Channon Peter Osgood Phil Boyer Ted McDougal Steve Moran Keegan Alan Shearer Worthington Danny Wallace MLT Beattie Pharas and probably Lambert Mane Pelle 

I wont bore you with a list of creative players but I saw two world cup winning players Paine and Ball in Saints teams too

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Obviously you didn't see Charlie Wayman or Eric Day. Call yourself a Saints fan?

[PJ]

  On 01/10/2024 at 06:47, Football Special said:

Get a fucking grip man, of course he should support Saints. 

Did you take him to Wembley? I took mine and the buzz of that day will stay with them for life. 

Life of ups and mainly downs but give me that over soulless glory hunting any day. 

Try taking him to your local non-league side if he wants another team to attach to. 

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But for him, it wouldn't be glory hunting. He's never lived in Southampton - it's not like he'd be rejecting his local team to get glory with some other club. He lives far nearer to Arsenal/WestHam/Spurs.

Yes, we did Wembley. I'm probably just feeling depressed, like we all are, watching us this season.

[Football Special]

  On 01/10/2024 at 06:56, PJ said:

But for him, it wouldn't be glory hunting. He's never lived in Southampton - it's not like he'd be rejecting his local team to get glory with some other club. He lives far nearer to Arsenal/WestHam/Spurs.

Yes, we did Wembley. I'm probably just feeling depressed, like we all are, watching us this season.

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It's hard work I give you that, keep the faith though. I genuinely could not imagine my kids supporting a different team, would feel weird, 

Difficult for the youngsters in the modern era relentlessly subjected to the premier league / champions league hype by the media , but it's soulless football for soulless consumers , attaching themselves to winning teams because they want to be associated with success despite never actually going to games. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

There was a time when a match against Bournemouth, home or away, was a reliable 3 points for us. Watching last night's match and seeing how far above us they now are was hard to take. Didn't RM see what the rest of us could see that the team he sent out in the first half were woeful?  Why wait until half-time when we are 3-0 down and the damage is done before making changes? Yes, we were a bit better in the second half but still not good enough to overturn another loss. I feel totally fed up this morning.

[Football Special]

One other point from last night - what a terrible away day Bournemouth is, tiny allocation,  no atmosphere in the ground, took an age to get into the ground with queueing and multiple searches, coppers stood there with a camera filming you getting searched , suppose they had to do something to justify their days wages , home fans barely managing a song except a muffled "scummers get battered everywhere they go" near the end, wish I could get my £2 back I put in their buckets when we had a whip round to save them late 90s. 

[Saint NL]

  On 01/10/2024 at 07:26, Football Special said:

One other point from last night - what a terrible away day Bournemouth is, tiny allocation,  no atmosphere in the ground, took an age to get into the ground with queueing and multiple searches, coppers stood there with a camera filming you getting searched , suppose they had to do something to justify their days wages , home fans barely managing a song except a muffled "scummers get battered everywhere they go" near the end, wish I could get my £2 back I put in their buckets when we had a whip round to save them late 90s. 

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Tbf, the atmosphere sounded decent on TV. But then we had the guy from Sky Sports banging on about "the famous black and red shirt" of Bournemouth so perhaps they were just trying to hype things up.

[The Realist]

Have been a big supporter of RM.  I loved his football last season.  It wasa great season and when we won, we won matches playing with style.  That said, we lost to teams who pressed us high up the pitch and/or were more energetic and up for a fight.  This was always my biggest worry coming up to the PL where teams press high and are more physically stronger than in the Championship.  B'mth result was no surprise as they press high and very energetic.  

We are just  too slow getting the ball forward even if we did beat the press.  People saying "get a new manager in and sort the defence out, we'll be fine" are wrong.  The defence isn't necessarily the problem.  The style of play is such that they aren't allowed to boot it so have to play a pass but we are under so much pressure, there is nobody to pass to.  We play too safely, don't take opportunities to get the ball in the box or down the wings and are so slow and predictable.

We needed a decent CF, we don't have one.  Why not play balls over the top of opposition defence for fast players like CA, AA to run onto to at least give the opposition something to think about and push them back.

I think RM has to go but who to replace him....