New manager

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

22 hours ago, gio1saints said:

That Ipswich goal apparently had an XG of .04 - it most certainly was very unlucky for us to concede from there.

Statistics have changed football. All I know is that goal went in and that was down to poor defending. Whether that's the coaching staff or RM's fault, they need to sort out their defence of set pieces and position players to be able to release the pressure.

But I really don't get that we have an inherently worse squad than other teams in the bottom half of the league. it's how you use the players and I'm seeing us getting better each game, especially now RM has ditched his obsession with passing around the back.

[saintant]

28 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

Russell Martin Could Be Sacked if Southampton Lose v Bournemouth, Potter Lined Up (msn.com)

Doubt there is any substance in this. It smacks of lazy clickbait journalism.

[Midfield_General]

It’s Football Insider. End of. 

[Forester]

Lots of passionate certainty expressed on this thread!  Surely the fair and balanced summary would be:

 

- it has been difficult for promoted teams to stay up for many years, arguably harder by the year because of the financial rewards in being part of the Premier League increasing, and they usually start as bookie favourites to go down

- this has become exacerbated by financial fair play rules in recent years which means that the “go for broke” strategy can’t easily be an option

- we appear particularly vulnerable in the striker department, with very few goals at the top level in the squad

-however, it is not INEVITABLE that the promoted teams go down, as was amply demonstrated when we were relegated and not a single promoted team dropped

- the margin between the promoted teams and Everton, Palace, Wolves, Brentford and Bournemouth is not ENORMOUS, and top quality coaching, both midweek and in-game management, can make the difference at the margins.  This was best illustrated last season I think at Brentford and Bournemouth

- and this works both ways, so mistakes are possible at our relegation rivals which may lower the bar needed to clear 

- as a consequence it is increasingly credible to imagine that a team can stay up winning eight or nine games with six or seven draws.  These wins could be wholly achieved in fixtures between these names teams, but we have already played two such fixtures and picked up one point

- so tomorrow is huge, and another defeat I think will just demand a change.  I really hope it doesn’t happen as I like Martin

[Roo1976]

On 27/09/2024 at 20:24, Farmer Saint said:

We have the ability to be entertaining, a lot. Yes, we've not been great so far but we've still seen a fair amount of decent football against Newcastle, Man United and Ipswich. 

From what ive seen, we have kept the ball well enough but without causing too much trouble in and around the box. We play needless passes because no one has the mindset of trying to move the opposition and ourselves about quick enough to catch  teams out. When we come under pressure our passes begin to go backwards to the point of nowhere else to go and make stupid bloody passes to players who cant/don't, seem to have vision  to back themselves out of poor situations. Oh just think JACKS available soon...............happy days.

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Source?

What do you mean? You don't think we were limited on transfer incomings this Summer? We were told a number of times we had to sell players to bring others in and it resulted in us spending far less this Summer. 

[AlexLaw76]

19 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What do you mean? You don't think we were limited on transfer incomings this Summer? We were told a number of times we had to sell players to bring others in and it resulted in us spending far less this Summer. 

How limited were we as the 6th biggest 'net spenders' in the country?

https://onefootball.com/en/news/premier-league-clubs-summer-2024-total-transfer-spending-all-20-clubs-listed-in-order-39972029

Edited September 29 by AlexLaw76

[Weston Super Saint]

24 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What do you mean? You don't think we were limited on transfer incomings this Summer? We were told a number of times we had to sell players to bring others in and it resulted in us spending far less this Summer. 

No.

I've also seen nothing to suggest we were at risk of a PSR breach, but you've stated it as a certainty, so I assume you have a source.

Apparently you haven't, but just made it up.

[Walter_Sobchak]

3 hours ago, Kenilworthy said:

However if we adopted an NFL approach in this country, with the same teams always in the top division, then it is likely that Saints would not be in it

I agree, but the EPL would be a lot more exciting if every club had the same spending limitations. 

How can saints ever compete with a club that can spend 100m on Rice, plus the wages, etc...

The league needs to become more competitive in my opinion, like the NFL... not be like the NFL, without promotion and relegation. 

 

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

I agree, but the EPL would be a lot more exciting if every club had the same spending limitations. 

How can saints ever compete with a club that can spend 100m on Rice, plus the wages, etc...

The league needs to become more competitive in my opinion, like the NFL... not be like the NFL, without promotion and relegation. 

 

No one was really suggesting this last season, when we had a massive financial advantage over 21 other clubs. Or in 2010-2011...no one was calling for us to have the same limitations as Dagenham and Redbridge.

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, Forester said:

Lots of passionate certainty expressed on this thread!  Surely the fair and balanced summary would be:

 

- it has been difficult for promoted teams to stay up for many years, arguably harder by the year because of the financial rewards in being part of the Premier League increasing, and they usually start as bookie favourites to go down

- this has become exacerbated by financial fair play rules in recent years which means that the “go for broke” strategy can’t easily be an option

- we appear particularly vulnerable in the striker department, with very few goals at the top level in the squad

-however, it is not INEVITABLE that the promoted teams go down, as was amply demonstrated when we were relegated and not a single promoted team dropped

- the margin between the promoted teams and Everton, Palace, Wolves, Brentford and Bournemouth is not ENORMOUS, and top quality coaching, both midweek and in-game management, can make the difference at the margins.  This was best illustrated last season I think at Brentford and Bournemouth

- and this works both ways, so mistakes are possible at our relegation rivals which may lower the bar needed to clear 

- as a consequence it is increasingly credible to imagine that a team can stay up winning eight or nine games with six or seven draws.  These wins could be wholly achieved in fixtures between these names teams, but we have already played two such fixtures and picked up one point

- so tomorrow is huge, and another defeat I think will just demand a change.  I really hope it doesn’t happen as I like Martin

Excellent post, especially the bit highlighted which fits nicely with my post the Bournemouth match build-up thread where I explain the flaw with Russball being the phase of transition from the back to midfield. Having said that, I also believe the manner in which we put teams under pressure in the final third is sub-standard too. The lack of chance creation is shocking.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Statistics have changed football. All I know is that goal went in and that was down to poor defending. Whether that's the coaching staff or RM's fault, they need to sort out their defence of set pieces and position players to be able to release the pressure.

But I really don't get that we have an inherently worse squad than other teams in the bottom half of the league. it's how you use the players and I'm seeing us getting better each game, especially now RM has ditched his obsession with passing around the back.

And don’t allow opponents time and space to line up a shot.

[Dark Munster]

18 hours ago, The Left Back said:

Not sure Leeds fans would agree. Twenty years ago relegation saw them disappear. This time round they nearly bounced back immediately and I expect them to this time. 

Leeds then were a basket case, they had been overspending like drunken sailors. They weren’t your typical relegated club. 

[Badger]

8 hours ago, saintant said:

Doubt there is any substance in this. It smacks of lazy clickbait journalism.

I suspect there’s more than a modicum of substance in the story that Saints are considering their options. The ‘link’ or mention of Potter though is doubtful. 
 

Potter will have other options and will probably wait for something better than our relegation struggle. 

[Badger]

Alarming thought today, but Schumacher is available. As ridiculous as this may seem we do have a history of going  for a Stoke failure, Hughes, Jones.

Not even Rasmus could be that much of a prick could he ?  

 

[Midfield_General]

35 minutes ago, Badger said:

I suspect there’s more than a modicum of substance in the story that Saints are considering their options. The ‘link’ or mention of Potter though is doubtful. 
 

Potter will have other options and will probably wait for something better than our relegation struggle. 

Sky have just announced that Potter is the studio guest for Bournemouth vs. Saints tomorrow night. 

[Gingeletiss]

16 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Sky have just announced that Potter is the studio guest for Bournemouth vs. Saints tomorrow night. 

Can see him being the new manager of Man U by the middle of the week.

[Midfield_General]

Yeah, whether Potter would get the United job or not, Ten Hag has to be a dead man walking now. That performance was absolutely abject. They aren't improving. God knows who'd be able to sort them out. 

[Farmer Saint]

10 hours ago, skintsaint said:

NFL is just boring itself though. Unless you just watch highlights 😅

It is if you don't understand it and I get that.

If you do though, it's awesome. 

Edited September 29 by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

7 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

How limited were we as the 6th biggest 'net spenders' in the country?

https://onefootball.com/en/news/premier-league-clubs-summer-2024-total-transfer-spending-all-20-clubs-listed-in-order-39972029

 

7 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

No.

I've also seen nothing to suggest we were at risk of a PSR breach, but you've stated it as a certainty, so I assume you have a source.

Apparently you haven't, but just made it up.

You two are aware the way PSR works don't you? Purchases are over the length of the contract, and sales are against that years accounts. We were told we HAD to sell to spend anymore, which suggests that we were literally out of PSR space for this season (or over the past 3).

No, there is no Echo article quoting the Financial Controller, but I would suggest you read what was said over the Summer, and view the players we bought (with reference to transfer and wages) to see what market we were buying in. 

Edited September 29 by Farmer Saint

[AlexLaw76]

19 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

 

You two are aware the way PSR works don't you? Purchases are over the length of the contract, and sales are against that years accounts. We were told we HAD to sell to spend anymore, which suggests that we were literally out of PSR space for this season (or over the past 3).

No, there is no Echo article quoting the Financial Controller, but I would suggest you read what was said over the Summer, and view the players we bought (with reference to transfer and wages) to see what market we were buying in. 

So much so, 6th highest net spenders in the country.

It was a choice to spread our costs thinly, ala BBD, Archer, Wood, Edwards etc 

Edited September 29 by AlexLaw76

[Farmer Saint]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

So much so, 6th highest net spenders in the country.

It was a choice to spread our costs thinly, ala BBD, Archer, Wood, Edwards etc 

Because we had a team of Championship players. Tbf, those 4 players cost us a grand total of £28m and £100k pw. Not exactly breaking the bank is it? 

But fine, you don't think we had any financial restrictions - we'll have to agree to disagree. 

[Zorba]

10 hours ago, saintant said:

Doubt there is any substance in this. It smacks of lazy clickbait journalism.

He’d probably be a good fit at Saints though if we have ambitions of solidifying our Prem status again. I don’t see him as a top 6 manager. He’s a bit over-rated in that respect in my opinion. Did a good job with Brighton and got them a top 10 finish.. once (i think). Got a shot at Chelsea, who admittedly were a basket case at the time, but couldn’t make a difference there and had the worst win rate of any recent Chelsea manager. I’d swap RM for him now. Get him in SR!

Edited September 29 by Zorba
Typo

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, Zorba said:

He’d probably be a good fit at Saints though if we have ambitions of solidifying our Prem status again. I don’t see him as a top 6 manager. He’s a bit over-rated in that aspect in my opinion. Did a good job with Brighton and got them a top 10 finish.. once (i think). Got a shot at Chelsea, who admittedly were a basket case at the time, but couldn’t make a difference there and had the worst win rate of any recent Chelsea manager. I’d swap RM for him now. Get him in SR!

The issue is he relies on very defensive football, and a lot of 1-0 wins - I don't think we have the players to do this - our defence and strikeforce are too weak. 

Edited September 29 by Farmer Saint

[Badger]

5 minutes ago, Zorba said:

He’d probably be a good fit at Saints though if we have ambitions of solidifying our Prem status again. I don’t see him as a top 6 manager. He’s a bit over-rated in that respect in my opinion. Did a good job with Brighton and got them a top 10 finish.. once (i think). Got a shot at Chelsea, who admittedly were a basket case at the time, but couldn’t make a difference there and had the worst win rate of any recent Chelsea manager. I’d swap RM for him now. Get him in SR!

I don't disagree with you, but in his own mind, he probably is a Top 6 manager, and will be expecting to be courted by clubs already there or with similar delusions (West Ham, or Everton post takeover for example).

[Wade Garrett]

The cynic in me says that it’s no coincidence that Potter is Sky’s studio guest.  He’s been invisible since his Chelsea sacking.

[Zorba]

46 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

The issue is he relies on very defensive football, and a lot of 1-0 wins - I don't think we have the players to do this - our defence and strikeforce are too weak. 

Unfortunately we’ve got no choice with the players we have. I like some of our players though and think, with better direction, we could survive this season. A fresh start under a manager that isn’t afraid to try alternative ways of playing might be just enough to keep us up.

Edited September 29 by Zorba

[manji]

I’ve no agenda here. I have no idea what should be done. But SR gave him an amazing new contract part of which was RM was allowed full control of transfers. They knew what they were getting and he had no intention of changing the way we play. That suggests to me it’s going to take a lot before they sack him. FWIW I’m conflicted a couple of wins would obviously change things and I can’t think of a decent replacement .

 

[Dark Munster]

20 minutes ago, manji said:

I’ve no agenda here. I have no idea what should be done. But SR gave him an amazing new contract part of which was RM was allowed full control of transfers. They knew what they were getting and he had no intention of changing the way we play. That suggests to me it’s going to take a lot before they sack him. FWIW I’m conflicted a couple of wins would obviously change things and I can’t think of a decent replacement .

 

That's the scary part. We are being run by a bunch of morons, led by a smarmy bullshitter.

[Farmer Saint]

37 minutes ago, Zorba said:

Unfortunately we’ve got no choice with the players we have. I like some of our players though and think, with better direction, we could survive this season. A fresh start under a manager that isn’t afraid to try alternative ways of playing might be just enough to keep us up.

I would prefer we bring in a player who plays to our players strengths if we're going to bring one in. Dont know what those strengths are though. 

As a Brighton local I remember the celebrations (and laughter) when Chelsea took him on. He was not well-rated round here.

I think we'll be begging for the entertainment of Russell Martin if we brought him in. 

 

[Farmer Saint]

7 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

That's the scary part. We are being run by a bunch of morons, led by a smarmy bullshitter.

What makes him a bullshitter? 

[Farmer Saint]

31 minutes ago, manji said:

I’ve no agenda here. I have no idea what should be done. But SR gave him an amazing new contract part of which was RM was allowed full control of transfers. They knew what they were getting and he had no intention of changing the way we play. That suggests to me it’s going to take a lot before they sack him. FWIW I’m conflicted a couple of wins would obviously change things and I can’t think of a decent replacement .

 

And herein lies the issue - I've not heard one name of someone who is a realistic upgrade yet on this thread. 

[Farmer Saint]

Although, if he gets sacked this week, I'd take Ten Hag...just not sure if that's realistic. 

Edited September 29 by Farmer Saint

[Dark Munster]

38 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What makes him a bullshitter? 

I’m talking about Rasmus “if it’s not broken then break it” Ankersen. 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, manji said:

I’ve no agenda here. I have no idea what should be done. But SR gave him an amazing new contract part of which was RM was allowed full control of transfers. They knew what they were getting and he had no intention of changing the way we play. That suggests to me it’s going to take a lot before they sack him. FWIW I’m conflicted a couple of wins would obviously change things and I can’t think of a decent replacement .

 

Is there no limit to the muppetry in managing SFC ?

Jones, giving Selles the job after a single game, the signings in Jan 23, now this. 

[Dark Munster]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Is there no limit to the muppetry in managing SFC ?

Jones, giving Selles the job after a single game, the signings in Jan 23, now this. 

Apparently not. The only thing that can stop them is Dragan, and he still seems oblivious. I wonder how many hundreds of millions of his money has to be squandered by those clowns before the penny drops?

[danjosaint]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

And herein lies the issue - I've not heard one name of someone who is a realistic upgrade yet on this thread. 

I not endorsing him but I think Corberan would do a better job

[Micky]

4 hours ago, manji said:

I’ve no agenda here. I have no idea what should be done. But SR gave him an amazing new contract part of which was RM was allowed full control of transfers. They knew what they were getting and he had no intention of changing the way we play. That suggests to me it’s going to take a lot before they sack him. FWIW I’m conflicted a couple of wins would obviously change things and I can’t think of a decent replacement .

 

I can't think of a decent replacement either, more worrying though, I can't for the life of me see where 'a couple of wins' will come from.   

[Farmer Saint]

9 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

I’m talking about Rasmus “if it’s not broken then break it” Ankersen. 

Ah, got it. 

[Osvaldorama]

11 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

The cynic in me says that it’s no coincidence that Potter is Sky’s studio guest.  He’s been invisible since his Chelsea sacking.

Largely because he was still being paid unbelievable wedge by Chelsea for many months. 
 

Although in all honesty, his record isn’t that much different than Martin’s. So I don’t think this would be a worthwhile swap. I think we are probably better off with Martin than potter 

[Farmer Saint]

7 hours ago, danjosaint said:

I not endorsing him but I think Corberan would do a better job

Not sure about that - there is every chance he can't. I think we need someone who's not as much as a risk (and an actual upgrade on Martin). 

[Dusic]

11 hours ago, manji said:

I’ve no agenda here. I have no idea what should be done. But SR gave him an amazing new contract part of which was RM was allowed full control of transfers. They knew what they were getting and he had no intention of changing the way we play. That suggests to me it’s going to take a lot before they sack him. FWIW I’m conflicted a couple of wins would obviously change things and I can’t think of a decent replacement .

 

Not sure where you have got this from?

I'm not in favour of an immediate change but clearly an urgent need to pick up points.

That said, in theory Potter is the standout candidate. Plays a style that is still possession based (which players are used to) but is more pragmatic and has experience of doing well at this level.

The problem....he could do a great job and still be relegated so not sure why it would overly appeal.

Edited September 30 by Dusic

[OldNick]

19 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

And don’t allow opponents time and space to line up a shot.

Did you watch the Villa game at Ipswich yesterday. It was  last minute corner and Villa had no-one on the edge of the box, the same as us it came out and it was shanked. Just our luck on the day, although I feel it should be a given having someone in the D

[saintant]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

Did you watch the Villa game at Ipswich yesterday. It was  last minute corner and Villa had no-one on the edge of the box, the same as us it came out and it was shanked. Just our luck on the day, although I feel it should be a given having someone in the D

Doesn't make it any more acceptable because some other team did it. Couldn't give a monkeys what Villa do against other sides as it doesn't affect us.

Edited September 30 by saintant

[skintsaint]

15 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

It is if you don't understand it and I get that.

If you do though, it's awesome. 

I do get it but its so long winded. As I said, highlights are great...the whole game including breaks and what not...zzzzz

[Midfield_General]

14 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

The cynic in me says that it’s no coincidence that Potter is Sky’s studio guest.  He’s been invisible since his Chelsea sacking.

He did an interview with the Telegraph over the weekend as well, saying that he's ready to come back.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c749n4ej9nko

Feels to me like some post-sacking contractual thing has just expired in the background and now he and his agent are keen to tout him around for the next decent Prem job.  

I still think he'll think he can do better than us / a relegation fight, and he'll have his eye on a club with more spending power and top-half / European potential, but none of those jobs are available at the moment, and if ours came up it would be interesting to see if he could be persuaded. I don't think it's out of the question, if he was promised a decent wedge to spend in January. 

Obviously I hope we win tonight, but it will be interesting to see what happens if we don't, especially if there aren't any obvious signs of improvement. 

[Cabrone]

14 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

The cynic in me says that it’s no coincidence that Potter is Sky’s studio guest.  He’s been invisible since his Chelsea sacking.

If Potter gets the job I'd be underwhelmed but he did manage to keep up a Brighton team not too dissimilar to us at the time. It was boring but also It was no mean feat.

We need the same - someone to make us defensively strong and able to hit on the counter. We've got a good keeper, a reasonable defence (if coached properly) and a hard working midfield so lets start playing to our strengths.

RM thinks we can take on prem teams playing open football but in reality we are beggars at the prem banquet and the sooner we get someone who understands this the sooner we can get competitive.

I would not be excited by Potter but he may be just what we need?

 

[manji]

2 hours ago, Dusic said:

Not sure where you have got this from?

I'm not in favour of an immediate change but clearly an urgent need to pick up points.

That said, in theory Potter is the standout candidate. Plays a style that is still possession based (which players are used to) but is more pragmatic and has experience of doing well at this level.

The problem....he could do a great job and still be relegated so not sure why it would overly appeal.

One of the main reasons the havnt replaced Wilcox.

[Midfield_General]

33 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

We need the same - someone to make us defensively strong and able to hit on the counter. We've got a good keeper, a reasonable defence (if coached properly) and a hard working midfield so lets start playing to our strengths.

Agree 100%. The basics for any promoted side should be to build from the back and make yourself hard to score against and horrible to play against. Grind out some draws or nick a few 1-0s and then build from there. We're the absolute opposite of that. 

We're also actually quite well-stocked to play on the counter. Dibling, Archer and Cornet are all quick and can play off the shoulder. Lallana and Fernandes are both very capable of picking a pass from midfield and giving them something to run onto. We could be effective playing that way. 

Edited September 30 by Midfield_General

[Nolan]

Looking at this from a business perspective, Sport Republic will realise they don't have the flexibility of getting management decisions wrong, or going as long as they did with Hassenhüttl. 

Last season at Göztepe it took only 2 losses for them to bring in Stoilov to attain their promotion.

A win at Bournemouth will be a stay of execution for Martin.

This new borrowing from MSD can surely only be money for a pay off, or to buy a new manager out of a contract.

International break is best time to change as a new manager will have time to work with the squad. 

Potter would be a sensible option as there's the Lallana links.