New manager

[Badger]

22 minutes ago, Chez said:

Who was responsible for giving RM a new contract (utter madness) in the summer?  

 

7 minutes ago, whiteleySaint30 said:

We love a bit of sentiment- new contract for RM, bring back R Fraser. Sadly neither are good enough for the premier league. 

 

Why not see how Martin gets on in the prem before before giving a new contract - afterall, surely last season he inky achieved what he should have done with the squad at his disposal. 

So obvious that a bit more caution was required wasn’t it ? 

[Wade Garrett]

17 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

I still think both rasmus and Kraft are on thin ice as well with dragan.

He's pumped a lot of money in and every year seems to be a drama of some sort.

I said before it would not surprise me if he bought out Kraft and Rasmus and took over completely.

Maybe get a Serbian legend to manage us who smokes 50 a day and has a funky haircut.

He doesn’t need to buy anyone out. 

He has over 75% of shares and voting rights, and has the power to remove and appoint directors.

As far as I can see, ultimately, he can do what he wants.

[Kermitzasaint]

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Problem is, the club isn’t learning from its mistakes. 
 

Our recruitment has barely improved us.. again. How are we getting it so spectacularly wrong every window?

The club are lucky that Dibling has broken through when he has, or we would genuinely have zero goal threat at all.
(Not helped by the ridiculous tactics we employ). 
 

I really hope it doesn’t turn toxic and people just stick with it. Even if it is shit. Won’t help matters at this point 

You expect fans to cheer on RM even as he completely loses it? 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Lymington Saint said:

Interesting article in the Mirror popped up on my phone.  Not sure how much credence to give it, although it does ring true.  Says that the board are split on sacking RM.  Ankerson still backing him.  Says that the owner is not impressed with RM, and that Ankerson is also under scrutiny.  My guess is that a couple more losses, especially if we don't beat Leicester, then RM will be gone.

 

Ankerson will back Russ because he was his choice and, after the debacle of Jones, he has little credit left in the bank of Dragan.

[franniesTache]

53 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Agree with 99% of that FT apart from being sold to Gao.

Original sale to Gao - on paper - was actually a really good deal. Gao had a lot of money to invest, both in the club and the city of Southampton, and early doors put a lot of money into expanding business interests and setting up football related businesses in China that would've tied revenue back to both the club and the university.

Had the long term plan worked it would've pumped a huge amount of money into the club and local area, but the leaders of China at the time effectively pulled the plug on money leaving China and going into foreign sports, and football in particular.

Kat herself plugged the gap that was left with her own money on more than one occasion, and a huge amount of the reason for that gap needing funding was the financial problems we'd been left in due to mismanagement and overspending before.

Of course none of these facts fit the narrative a lot of our fans have about the mad midget being a genius who was good for the club, and the Kat and Gao were the devil incarnate ruining her dads legacy.

It actually annoys me way more than it should when people attack Kat, her entire philosophy was about protecting what her dad loved, all her decisions were made with the best interest of the club and city at heart, and her nipper is a proper Saints fan. She should be held in the same regard as her father, but instead dinlows idolise someone who's ego was more important than the long term future of our club.

[Dr. Kucho]

1 hour ago, Give it to Ron said:

I don’t think all was Jones think some of that was Ralph not 100% but that was figured quoted to pay off old managers and coaches.

I think Russ will get 3 more games and unless we get Some points even biggest supporters on board may decide enough is enough.

I hope we do get points but unless Russ finds a magic formula he will go.

Makes sense that the 15m is for both managers. But let’s say the club decides to remove Martin, the costs could be another 7m. That would make it over 20m just on removing managers and then we still have to hire a new one, and his staff. The likes of Moyes and Potter don’t come cheap. 
Don’t think Dragan would like that and that makes me think we will stick with Martin. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, franniesTache said:

Original sale to Gao - on paper - was actually a really good deal. Gao had a lot of money to invest, both in the club and the city of Southampton, and early doors put a lot of money into expanding business interests and setting up football related businesses in China that would've tied revenue back to both the club and the university.

Had the long term plan worked it would've pumped a huge amount of money into the club and local area, but the leaders of China at the time effectively pulled the plug on money leaving China and going into foreign sports, and football in particular.

Kat herself plugged the gap that was left with her own money on more than one occasion, and a huge amount of the reason for that gap needing funding was the financial problems we'd been left in due to mismanagement and overspending before.

Of course none of these facts fit the narrative a lot of our fans have about the mad midget being a genius who was good for the club, and the Kat and Gao were the devil incarnate ruining her dads legacy.

It actually annoys me way more than it should when people attack Kat, her entire philosophy was about protecting what her dad loved, all her decisions were made with the best interest of the club and city at heart, and her nipper is a proper Saints fan. She should be held in the same regard as her father, but instead dinlows idolise someone who's ego was more important than the long term future of our club.

The simple fact is this. Despite being chased by AC Milan and being a dream maker who turned a near bankrupt league one football club into a champions league ready Premier league power all through sheer ambition and business brilliance 11 years after leaving he's never worked in football again. Why is that? You'd think club all over the world would be knocking his door down.

Edited October 3 by Turkish

[die Mannyschaft]

I can't see RM leaving as he was signed up to play the way the board and owners want. Plus all the players we have in transfer windows are players who want to play that type of football.  If your making decisions based on generating income then it's best ti stick with what you have. Even if relegated we could go back up and I guess better off. Season tickets will still be same cost or higher, no store discount, I'm sure club will find a way to charge more, maybe £10 to keep you seat or £1 to use the bog. WBA must be well off still with promotions.

[saintant]

49 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I can't see RM leaving as he was signed up to play the way the board and owners want. Plus all the players we have in transfer windows are players who want to play that type of football.  If your making decisions based on generating income then it's best ti stick with what you have. Even if relegated we could go back up and I guess better off. Season tickets will still be same cost or higher, no store discount, I'm sure club will find a way to charge more, maybe £10 to keep you seat or £1 to use the bog. WBA must be well off still with promotions.

This theory is fine as long as you are happy to fuck off most of your fan base.

[danjosaint]

1 hour ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I can't see RM leaving as he was signed up to play the way the board and owners want. Plus all the players we have in transfer windows are players who want to play that type of football.  

It wasn't the board and owners who wanted this style of play, it was Wilcox, the players signed weren't signed as possession based players they were either for profit as per club's model or cheap squad packers 

[Whitey Grandad]

53 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

It wasn't the board and owners who wanted this style of play, it was Wilcox, the players signed weren't signed as possession based players they were either for profit as per club's model or cheap squad packers 

That much is obvious. 

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, danjosaint said:

It wasn't the board and owners who wanted this style of play, it was Wilcox, the players signed weren't signed as possession based players they were either for profit as per club's model or cheap squad packers 

I said it before and I’ll say it again, Wilcox may have agreed and been put forward as the public face of the decision, but the choice of RM has Ankersen’s fingerprints all over it. Another of his insane decisions that he thinks is genius. So it doesn’t surprise me that that charlatan is the one who is stubbornly backing another of his failed managers, even though anyone with half a brain can see he’s completely out of his depth. It’s the Nathan Jones debacle all over again.

Dragan, do something FFS!

[ErwinK1961]

2 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

I said it before and I’ll say it again, Wilcox may have agreed and been put forward as the public face of the decision, but the choice of RM has Ankersen’s fingerprints all over it. Another of his insane decisions that he thinks is genius. So it doesn’t surprise me that that charlatan is the one who is stubbornly backing another of his failed managers, even though anyone with half a brain can see he’s completely out of his depth. It’s the Nathan Jones debacle all over again.

Dragan, do something FFS!

And you can keep saying it, but it was Wilcox’s appointment.

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

And you can keep saying it, but it was Wilcox’s appointment.

Source?

[Dellyears]

2 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

And you can keep saying it, but it was Wilcox’s appointment.

Perhaps Wilcox would like him at Man Utd, they will need someone any day now.

[Thripp87]

What’s the actual point in sacking Martin when Rasmus will end up just appointing some cheap foreigner? If it’s not Moyes or Potter it is a pointless decision to make. 

[CB Fry]

6 hours ago, Thripp87 said:

What’s the actual point in sacking Martin when Rasmus will end up just appointing some cheap foreigner? If it’s not Moyes or Potter it is a pointless decision to make. 

They've appointed two permanent managers and both were British so don't know how sure you can be of that.

[AlexLaw76]

14 hours ago, die Mannyschaft said:

I can't see RM leaving as he was signed up to play the way the board and owners want. Plus all the players we have in transfer windows are players who want to play that type of football.  If your making decisions based on generating income then it's best ti stick with what you have. Even if relegated we could go back up and I guess better off. Season tickets will still be same cost or higher, no store discount, I'm sure club will find a way to charge more, maybe £10 to keep you seat or £1 to use the bog. WBA must be well off still with promotions.

Martin is not some maverick with the possession based stuff. Most managers are like this, so moving him on should not be an issue 

[ErwinK1961]

7 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Source?

The horses mouth.

[Weston Super Saint]

54 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

They've appointed two permanent managers and both were British so don't know how sure you can be of that.

Does Welsh really count?

[Gloucester Saint]

12 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

And you can keep saying it, but it was Wilcox’s appointment.

There’s a difference between overseeing the paperwork and being the ‘strategic genius’.

Which Mr 🐂 💩 thinks he is.

[chuz]

19 hours ago, Badger said:

 

So obvious that a bit more caution was required wasn’t it ? 

As I understand it, the new contract was guaranteed if promotion was achieved…ie in the old contract it stated a new one would be offered on promotion…

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, chuz said:

As I understand it, the new contract was guaranteed if promotion was achieved…ie in the old contract it stated a new one would be offered on promotion…

And surely any break clause is all that matters. 
 

If they only have to pay a year or two salary if sacked, whether you’ve got a 10 year or a 3 year contract is irrelevant. A new contract is just basically just a pay rise if the settlement period remains the same. Isn’t it? 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

It could well be the timing of that break clause that determines how long he's here.

[david in sweden]

On 03/10/2024 at 09:41, saintant said:

As you say Dragan is the biggest investor so, when push comes to shove, he will be the one calling the shots. If he wants rid of Rasmus and Kraft I'm pretty certain he has the power to make it happen. The problem is he's probably still falling for the Rasmus bullshit.

some others on this site are beginning to sound a bit like Donald Trump..."you're fired "..( is his favourite expression).

The Board aren't out on the pitch every matchday, and aside from the cost of your matchday ticket, most of the money they spend ...is theirs.

If I had spent 100 million in the summer ...and still only had 1 point in the league, I'd be fast running out of toilet paper, so the problem is down to

the manager's preferred formation, and the IQ of those fellas out there with the numbered shirts.  Then throw in other dimensions like a few 

doubtful penalty shouts,  a shot off the post, a world class keeper who saves everything and a smattering of VAR decisions, and then add an

unbiased referee and you have the life and death of survival of a season in the Premier League.

 

With the exception of Lallana, Bednarek and Taylor who have been round the big stadiums a few time before, we have a group of inexperienced

eager youngsters who aren't used to tough matches against world class players, and whose heads will drop when they concede a goal or two.

For as long as it takes ...to turn this around and start scoring goals and racking up points we have to grin and bear it, and don't think that we alone 

feel worse than RM and the playing staff.  Getting rid of the manager ...may sound like " a quick fix " to some, but if a replacement cannot speak

fluent English, or has never dabbled in the Premier League before ..we will be out of the frying pan and burnt out before the end of the season. 

Edited October 4 by david in sweden

[ally_uk]

Get rid of Rasmus the man is a fraud..... He is the real issue at our club 

[Give it to Ron]

8 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Get rid of Rasmus the man is a fraud..... He is the real issue at our club 

Possibly but as I keep saying it’s not Rasmus picking 2 forwards playing 60 yards apart, no strikers and 2 good midfielders out of position, not Rasmus insisting our 2 worst players on ball get most of it. Chopping and changing team and not allowing players to get an understanding of each others game. 
Russ must have had hand in signings otherwise why sign Wood who last season was awful and not Prem standard.

Blame Rasmus, owners, Kraft, Doris the tea lady but the buck stops at manager who can’t make a substitution as long as his arse has hole in it

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Possibly but as I keep saying it’s not Rasmus picking 2 forwards playing 60 yards apart, no strikers and 2 good midfielders out of position, not Rasmus insisting our 2 worst players on ball get most of it. Chopping and changing team and not allowing players to get an understanding of each others game. 
Russ must have had hand in signings otherwise why sign Wood who last season was awful and not Prem standard.

Blame Rasmus, owners, Kraft, Doris the tea lady but the buck stops at manager who can’t make a substitution as long as his arse has hole in it

I happen to know that Doris prefers a compact 4-2-3-1 with an inverted attacking role for KWP! No way does the blame lie there!

Hopefully, any succession planning begins with a section looking at the criteria they've used to make previous poor decisions, why they thought they were right in the first place, and if they should be involved in further decision making.

[Miltonaggro]

7 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Does Welsh really count?

Plus he can speak Spanish and whistle ‘Land of my Fathers’ in twenty five languages. A citizen of the world. God willing…

[lambtiss]

25 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Hopefully, any succession planning begins with a section looking at the criteria they've used to make previous poor decisions, why they thought they were right in the first place, and if they should be involved in further decision making.

I couldn't agree more. The problems always start at the top. 

[East Kent Saint]

   
 

Explains why RM has to go !

 

[Dark Munster]

12 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

The horses mouth.

So I assume you mean you spoke to Wilcox personally. Did he explicitly say hiring RM was his idea alone, with no input from Rasmus or anyone else?

[CB Fry]

9 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

So I assume you mean you spoke to Wilcox personally. Did he explicitly say hiring RM was his idea alone, with no input from Rasmus or anyone else?

And you have a mountain of first hand evidence that the decision has a "Rasmus all over it"?

It was literally Wilcox's job to select and employ the first team manager. Not sure why you are determined to pretend something different to make your own shitty point.

Edited October 4 by CB Fry

[Osvaldorama]

5 hours ago, david in sweden said:

some others on this site are beginning to sound a bit like Donald Trump..."you're fired "..( is his favourite expression).

The Board aren't out on the pitch every matchday, and aside from the cost of your matchday ticket, most of the money they spend ...is theirs.

If I had spent 100 million in the summer ...and still only had 1 point in the league, I'd be fast running out of toilet paper, so the problem is down to

the manager's preferred formation, and the IQ of those fellas out there with the numbered shirts.  Then throw in other dimensions like a few 

doubtful penalty shouts,  a shot off the post, a world class keeper who saves everything and a smattering of VAR decisions, and then add an

unbiased referee and you have the life and death of survival of a season in the Premier League.

 

With the exception of Lallana, Bednarek and Taylor who have been round the big stadiums a few time before, we have a group of inexperienced

eager youngsters who aren't used to tough matches against world class players, and whose heads will drop when they concede a goal or two.

For as long as it takes ...to turn this around and start scoring goals and racking up points we have to grin and bear it, and don't think that we alone 

feel worse than RM and the playing staff.  Getting rid of the manager ...may sound like " a quick fix " to some, but if a replacement cannot speak

fluent English, or has never dabbled in the Premier League before ..we will be out of the frying pan and burnt out before the end of the season. 

Pochettino couldn’t speak English and he turned the club around completely. 
 

 

[Dark Munster]

39 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

And you have a mountain of first hand evidence that the decision has a "Rasmus all over it"?

It was literally Wilcox's job to select and employ the first team manager. Not sure why you are determined to pretend something different to make your own shitty point.

No I don't, where did I claim that? It was my opinion, based on circumstantial evidence. On the other hand @ErwinK1961 was claiming it was Wilcox's alone as a fact. That may be true, but I am asking for evidence.

You don't believe what I say and believe that "you are determined to pretend something different to make your own shitty point"? Fine, you're entitled to your shitty opinion.

Edited October 4 by Dark Munster

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

No I don't, where did I claim that? It was my opinion, based on circumstantial evidence. On the other hand @ErwinK1961 was claiming it was Wilcox's alone as a fact. That may be true, but I am asking for evidence.

You don't believe what I say and believe that "you are determined to pretend something different to make your own shitty point"? Fine, you're entitled to your shitty opinion.

Yep, I am.

The "circumstantial evidence" is you don't like Rasmus so are deciding to blame any bad decision you don't like on him and then getting arsey when anyone else tries to make the not unreasonable point that other well-paid decision makers are perfectly capable of making their own fuck ups. For example, Wilcox choosing Martin to deliver his mini-Man City dream.

By the way, if it is your opinion how am I supposed "believe what you say"? It's your opinion so there is nothing to believe. You seem awful confused.

 

Edited October 4 by CB Fry

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

So I assume you mean you spoke to Wilcox personally. Did he explicitly say hiring RM was his idea alone, with no input from Rasmus or anyone else?

 

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

No I don't, where did I claim that? It was my opinion, based on circumstantial evidence. On the other hand @ErwinK1961 was claiming it was Wilcox's alone as a fact. That may be true, but I am asking for evidence.

You don't believe what I say and believe that "you are determined to pretend something different to make your own shitty point"? Fine, you're entitled to your shitty opinion.

Martin was Wilcox’s choice. His first choice was Maresca, when that didn’t happen he went after Martin instead. Wilcox was given control of football operations, he’d need SR sign off on things but he was in charge. Rasmus wasn’t involved last summer, he was with Goztepe.

I told you where that has come from, whether you believe it or not I don’t care.

I know it must be hard for you, when every other one of your posts is anti-Ankerson, but believe it or not he’s not to blame for everything.

 

[ErwinK1961]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

Yep, I am.

The "circumstantial evidence" is you don't like Rasmus so are deciding to blame any bad decision you don't like on him and then getting arsey when anyone else tries to make the not unreasonable point that other well-paid decision makers are perfectly capable of making their own fuck ups. For example, Wilcox choosing Martin to deliver his mini-Man City dream.

 

Exactly, surely ‘circumstantial evidence’ would be ex Man City staff member appointing manager to play like Man City. 

This notion seems to have reared its head again based on a comment by Alex Crook, FFS. 

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Pochettino couldn’t speak English and he turned the club around completely. 
 

 

Neither could Nathan Jones and he was a fucking bin-fire!

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

 

Martin was Wilcox’s choice. His first choice was Maresca, when that didn’t happen he went after Martin instead. Wilcox was given control of football operations, he’d need SR sign off on things but he was in charge. Rasmus wasn’t involved last summer, he was with Goztepe.

I told you where that has come from, whether you believe it or not I don’t care.

I know it must be hard for you, when every other one of your posts is anti-Ankerson, but believe it or not he’s not to blame for everything.

 

I didn’t say I didn’t believe you. And it’s clear Wilcox was 100% on board with RM. But what I want to know was it 100% Wilcox’s choice or was their input from others. The fact that Ankersen was with Goztepe didn’t stop him being involved here too. He certainly is now if leaks are true that it’s him that’s backing RM to continue against the wishes of others on the board. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Putting the blame on someone you don’t like is pathetic. The facts are clear if you bother to look & take personal agendas off the table.…Lego head appointed himself to the job. 

[Bobsmith]

Russell Martin is the one who consistently makes bad decisions and ultimately will be held to account by the club. The perfect time would be after the Arsenal game so the new manager has a couple of weeks to start to implement their style against Leicester. Has RM shown that we can play a style that will beat Leicester if still in charge? Possibly, especially in the game against Ipswich. But the mental frailty will still exist, we don't look like scoring more than one goal again, and our style concedes at least 1 goal per game (being generous) so I'd suggest not. In which case we could be cut adrift in October, after an easy run of fixtures, and a mountain to climb to survive. 

[Kermitzasaint]

On 03/10/2024 at 21:21, Dr. Kucho said:

Makes sense that the 15m is for both managers. But let’s say the club decides to remove Martin, the costs could be another 7m. That would make it over 20m just on removing managers and then we still have to hire a new one, and his staff. The likes of Moyes and Potter don’t come cheap. 
Don’t think Dragan would like that and that makes me think we will stick with Martin. 

What costs more, certain relegation with a failed coach and becoming a joke in Europe or hiring a better coach? 

[Matthew Le God]

If Martin did go & Saints didn't have a permanent replacement lined up straight away, I'd guess Lallana as a caretaker might be the initial step. Lallana supported Brighton's Andrew Crofts when Potter left for Chelsea & Lallana helped coach England Under 21s recently.

[Mr X]

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

If Martin did go & Saints didn't have a permanent replacement lined up straight away, I'd guess Lallana as a caretaker might be the initial step. Lallana supported Brighton's Andrew Crofts when Potter left for Chelsea & Lallana helped coach England Under 21s recently.

I'd be worried they would see lallana as a permanent and cheap answer! 

[Matthew Le God]

Why is that confusing @Paul Chuckle?

[Suhari]

40 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I'd be worried they would see lallana as a permanent and cheap answer! 

I don't buy into the idea that SR do things on the cheap. We can't accuse them of not spending.

The issue is them trying to be too damn clever.

[lambtiss]

5 hours ago, Mr X said:

I'd be worried they would see lallana as a permanent and cheap answer! 

Only if he was successful, which would be fine. 

Edited October 6 by lambtiss

[Dellyears]

8 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

If Martin did go & Saints didn't have a permanent replacement lined up straight away, I'd guess Lallana as a caretaker might be the initial step. Lallana supported Brighton's Andrew Crofts when Potter left for Chelsea & Lallana helped coach England Under 21s recently.

Lallana is still a favourite of mine and his form this season has surprised me, I hope plays more minutes week in week out. But manager? No no. We need a top figure with a load of management experience who will have players and fans respect immediately. We've messed about with lower league gambles too much. Lallana to be his assistant when his playing days end Yes yes

[derry]

We don't want another smartarse clever clogs with too much ego. What we do need is a clever simplistic manager that believes in getting the best out of the players and puts them in a framework that suits them and most of all isn't obsessed with possession or has a cast in stone system he wants to make the players try and play whether it suits them or not.