New manager

[Midfield_General]

Regardless of what any of us might want, and regardless of results, I don't think Martin is going anywhere until there's a credible option sounded out and lined up to replace him. And given that none of the current obvious names seem to be remotely interested, it doesn't sound like we're anywhere near that. So until a new name comes onto the scene who might be an improvement and who might actually want it, I think we're stuck in limbo. 

Unless it gets so bad that they just panic and take a punt on someone who'd basically take anything, like Lampard, and then we might as well all pack up and go home. 

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, Football Special said:

What about if we lose at home tonight v Stoke reserves ? 

It will be bad but have less relevance. We won't win the Carabou Cup but, as things stand, we have a small chance of avoiding relegation.

[Toussaint]

5 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

My feeling is the damage is done now and not just regarding the lack of points. Think about how difficult it will be for the players to change course mid-season and produce results. We need to face facts…the Prem has moved on…got better, because other clubs have invested better in their playing staff in the same way we did when we had Pelle, Mane etc. We allowed the impetus to fall off a cliff and here we are…significantly short of quality in key areas of the pitch and a Manager who thinks he can make a purse out of a sows ear. We are just another also ran club like Derby, Swansea, Sunderland etc etc., not able to attract or keep hold of the better players or staff in the business.

Did Dragan and SR actually think they’d turn Saints FC into a footballing giant by investing in the manner they have, both in terms of funding and competency? I don’t believe they are that stupid - hence, Russ is a long term project…come what may.

I think you’re spot on, depressing as it is. Rasmus has been true to his philosophy, I wasn’t broken, in a saints sense, but now I am. Mission accomplished!

[Lee On Solent Saint]

6 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Regardless of what any of us might want, and regardless of results, I don't think Martin is going anywhere until there's a credible option sounded out and lined up to replace him. And given that none of the current obvious names seem to be remotely interested, it doesn't sound like we're anywhere near that. So until a new name comes onto the scene who might be an improvement and who might actually want it, I think we're stuck in limbo. 

Unless it gets so bad that they just panic and take a punt on someone who'd basically take anything, like Lampard, and then we might as well all pack up and go home. 

Am not sure that Lampard is any worse than Martin to be honest. Personally I would take the risk just to be shot of Martin.

[Midfield_General]

See, I personally haven't got to that point yet. But then I'm just about to leave for St Mary's, so ask me again in about four hours. 

[Football Special]

11 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Regardless of what any of us might want, and regardless of results, I don't think Martin is going anywhere until there's a credible option sounded out and lined up to replace him. And given that none of the current obvious names seem to be remotely interested, it doesn't sound like we're anywhere near that. So until a new name comes onto the scene who might be an improvement and who might actually want it, I think we're stuck in limbo. 

Unless it gets so bad that they just panic and take a punt on someone who'd basically take anything, like Lampard, and then we might as well all pack up and go home. 

That's what I've heard, impression within the club is Martin has been assured he has the support of the board, could be dreaded vote of confidence but in this case I think they really do plan to stick with him

Does seem baffling , who knows we'll look back end of the season and wonder what all the fuss was about 

[gio1saints]

Arguably there are Two sides to the debate - one side points out that there are alternative ways of looking at the situation with RM even pointing out the positives and also recognises 1 point is relegation stuff- the other feels obliged not only to trash talk any alternate point of view (on auto-reply than the ( Russell is shit) but also -and this is a clear distinction - to load up with abuse disrespect and invent new terms of insult for the poster. Let alone deliberately misread posts.
Those who do that just get away with it time after time. By resorting to personal abuse and insults like you mostly all do I  know ( and you know) that you have got no argument - abuse and word violence is not a discussion. Many of that ilk seem massive keyboard warriors ~ quick to hurl off insults from the safety of your devices but I’d guess in real life you’d never say what you say to anyone’s face.  I guess in that sense it’s a home for cowards, and there’s obviously a lot out tonight all eager to gang up on anyone who cares to voice an opinion that is not “ Russell is shit”. Enjoy rest of the nights moans. The only thing makes you happy gets you excited is moaning about RM. Quite a sad state of affairs don’t you think. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

1) I disagree that the team will be better next time. I think that, as well as the obvious departures - Ramsdale, KWP, Dibling,  etc, that several others that we retained last time won't want to stay for another slog in the Championship.

2) We will go down as by far the weakest of the three relegated teams, and will probably be inferior to teams such as Leeds, so at best 4th or 5th strongest in the division, but I think we would fall short in a highly competitive fight for the payoff places.

3) Russ was pretty much found out last season, the unbeaten run hid a number of flaws and weaknesses that will be open to exploitation again. We will continue to fanny about at the back and teams will simply press high and early and overrun our midfield. Another season of over 60 goals conceded, par for the course with Russ.

1. Apart from KWP, who will we lose that makes our team weaker than last season?

2. So the same as last time, by far the weakest of the 3 relegated. Whether Leeds are stronger now is very debatable.

3. But we got promoted with that last time. 

 

I really fail to see why we were in a much stronger position to get promoted last season than we would do next.

[Football Special]

14 minutes ago, saintant said:

It will be bad but have less relevance. We won't win the Carabou Cup but, as things stand, we have a small chance of avoiding relegation.

Out of interest what % chance of survival do you give us? I'd realistically say it's down to 5% chance and we're as good as down already 

[Zorba]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

We are a philosophy football club. We are a player trading football club. Results are just noise.

 

 

 

Book No. 2

[Dark Munster]

43 minutes ago, franniesTache said:

As for Martin staying if we do go down with him in charge, and make no mistake if we do it'll be on the worst points total ever, I think season ticket sales will drop off a cliff. People are really underestimating just how much most saints fans are putting up with Martin based on him banking favours from last season.

The majority i know (young, old and middle aged) find his style of football boring as fuck and his stubbornness and arrogance annoying. The small cult on here and social media who seemingly idolise him are absolutely in the minority, and keeping him on if we go down will see a hell of a reaction, both against him and the owners.

 

We need a crowd reaction much sooner than that, namely a few weeks ago, but certainly immediately after the Everton match if we don't win. The fans are the only ones that can force Ankersen and the rest of the SR clowns to take action. They were the reason that they reluctantly got rid of Mad Nate.

Actually it would be even better if the fans vent their anger at the root of the problem, Ankersen and the rest of the SR clowns.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

The Champ is littered with clubs who have got stuck down there though. 

Luton were in the Prem last year and by this point last season they had 5 times the number of points we've currently got. After 12 games back in the Championship they are currently in the relegation zone. 

Leeds probably thought they'd stroll back up. 

Sheffield United, West Brom, Watford, Norwich, Middlesbrough, Stoke - all comparable clubs to us, all had decent stints in the Prem, now having to scrap it out to try and get into the play-offs. Most of them will fail. 

This idea that it's not that big a deal to get relegated because we'll just get promoted again is madness. The Championship is a horrible league to get out of, and some might say we were bloody lucky to do it last time. There are absolutely no guarantees we'd do it again at the first time of asking, or indeed at all, especially when our recruitment is so hit-and-miss. Once you're down there, it can be permanent. 

But why is it so different to last season? We have been down there once with Martin, and got promoted - why would we automatically think that wouldn't happen second time round?

I'm certainly not saying it would be a guarantee, but we have a decent chance especially as we did it last time.

[Farmer Saint]

53 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There you go again.

That was in a different league and even there it wasn't Russball that got us promoted. There were three teams that finished above us in the table without playing it.

Had we achieved automatic promotion then we would have had a longer summer to get prepared. 

Not really helping Ipswich or Leicester though is it?

[saintant]

13 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Out of interest what % chance of survival do you give us? I'd realistically say it's down to 5% chance and we're as good as down already 

That's a tricky one. With RM in charge for the season 0%. A new manager with better ideas and tactics then I'd say 30% only because we've wasted a relatively easy start and we can't get those games back. However, anyone who comes in and makes us more competitive, improves our shape and gets a few wins will at least give us the hope of some respectability.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

I really fail to see why we were in a much stronger position to get promoted last season than we would do next.

I think we are weaker in the striker department compared to last season, in "Championship standard" terms, with Che having left, as neither Archer nor BBD are as good. ( IMO ). Defensively we will have the same group that conceded so many goals last time around, less the best defender, ( KWP ).

As for other players leaving, that depends on the players' opinions of themselves, ( "I'm too good to go down" ), whether there is interest from the promoted teams, ( THB ?, Taylor ?, Archer ? ),or how creative their agents are, but I think that there will be first team players that do not want to go down again. Some may want to leave simply to try to get away from the memory of the disaster that seems to be unfolding. I can certainly see Aribo going.

We will also be 'weaker' tactically because teams will know exactly how to play against us, rather than seeing something "new" or "innovative" and having to work out how to stop us.

Edited 29 October, 2024 by badgerx16

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I think we are weaker in the striker department compared to last season, in "Championship standard" terms, with Che having left, as neither Archer nor BBD are as good. ( IMO ). Defensively we will have the same group that conceded so many goals last time around, less the best defender, ( KWP ).

As for other players leaving, that depends on the players' opinions of themselves, ( "I'm too good to go down" ), whether there is interest from the promoted teams, ( THB ?, Taylor ?, Archer ? ),or how creative their agents are, but I think that there will be first team players that do not want to go down again. Some may want to leave simply to try to get away from the memory of the disaster that seems to be unfolding. I can certainly see Aribo going.

We will also be 'weaker' tactically because teams will know exactly how to play against us, rather than seeing something "new" or "innovative" and having to work out how to stop us.

Che scored 16 in 40 last season. Last time Archer was in the Championship he scored 11 in 20, and last time BBD was he scored 14 in 43, coming off the left.

I think Archer is probably better, so I'd call that 6 of one...

Defensively we'll have Suga to replace KWP in theory.

Tactically, maybe, but then better teams in a League rarely change the way they play to stop people counteracting it. People were doing it early on last season (Sunderland, Boro etc) and people on here were commenting that tactically we'd been found out, and then we went on a long unbeaten run, so not sure that holds up particularly well either.

I think we're in roughly the same position.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not really helping Ipswich or Leicester though is it?

Both ahead of us in the table, on points totals that Gio and Cato and you would be absolutely creaming yourselves over if Martin had achieved it.

Edited 29 October, 2024 by CB Fry

[SWLondon Saint]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not really helping Ipswich or Leicester though is it?

Latest Opta predictions have Leicester staying up with us, Ipswich and Wolves going down.

[Farmer Saint]

13 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Both ahead of us in the table, on points totals that Gio and Cato and you would be absolutely creaming yourselves over if Martin had achieved it.

Not sure what makes you think I'm a Martin fan, I think he needs to go.

[Doctoroncall]

6 hours ago, Turkish said:

We are a philosophy football club. We are a player trading football club. Results are just noise.

 

 

I’m waiting for

The Affect Effect,

By Rasmus Ankersen

Waiting to win

[SWLondon Saint]

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Is he trying to do something spectacular? I think yes. Is he just trying to survive- I think no. Is that inspirational or is it stupid? I prefer to consider it extremely daring- and yes, courageous because he knows it’s odds against and still refuses to give up. 

 I think the likeliest outcome is we will go down - but get better and better at playing this way so it may be closer than people suppose at the end.

He's not really trying to do anything spectacular and revolutionary, there are plenty of other teams and coaches who play possession-based, they just do it better and smarter! Brighton have been the best example of in the EPL other than City, elsewhere you could look at Lille, Weirder Bremen, Leverkusen, obviously Barca and probably Real Sociedad and even the current Spain team.

It's not going to result in your Saints World Club Cup dream unfortunately - because if Martin was doing spectacularly well with it, he'd be poached sooner than you can say 'record manager fee'. But unfortunately, he is simply not doing a good enough job. Look at other fairly new first time coaches like Alonso, Amorim, Inzaghi - also all ex players and really making their players and teams improve and really excelling in all aspects of the game.

As I said some time back, Martin  went straight from playing into coaching, he's reached the limits of his present ability and he just looks out of his depth. I absolutely think he could get better, but I don't think that'll happen in this stint because a) you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps and b) his attitude does seem to be that he knows best, which isn't usually conducive to learning.

[Matthew Le God]

On 28/10/2024 at 16:08, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Guess he means the guy who used to sell hoovers, or what ever he did.

No, that is the CEO Phil Parsons. Not the DoF.

[Matthew Le God]

On 28/10/2024 at 15:57, Master Bates said:

Who?

Mark Bitcon is Saints Director of Football

Edited 29 October, 2024 by Matthew Le God

[Master Bates]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Mark Bitcon is Saints Director of Football

It is a bit of a con if you ask me.

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, SWLondon Saint said:

Latest Opta predictions have Leicester staying up with us, Ipswich and Wolves going down.

My Optical prediction based on watching them so far this year is us and two others to go down.

[Turkish]

45 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

I’m waiting for

The Affect Effect,

By Rasmus Ankersen

Waiting to win

We play by different rules.

we are not limited by binary timescales of 38 games in a season, 90 minute matche or 3 points for win, an outdated concept with a pass or fail concept. we don’t play by “the rules” no one wins the sport of football. Teams might win a game a league or a trophy, but who decided these are the measures of success? If you look at sport through a win or lose lens then that’s a closed mindset. We have a growth mindset that’s more than just who scores most over a pre-determined period. 

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, Zorba said:

 

Book No. 2

 

[benali-shorts]

I didn’t think I’d see a worse left winger than Fraser or BB-D this season, but credit to Cornet, he’s done them both. 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, benali-shorts said:

I didn’t think I’d see a worse left winger than Fraser or BB-D this season, but credit to Cornet, he’s done them both. 

Perhaps he’s taken the accolade given to Puncheon once, described as taking his game to “a new level of shit”

 

Edited 29 October, 2024 by Badger

[Wade Garrett]

5 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Arguably there are Two sides to the debate - one side points out that there are alternative ways of looking at the situation with RM even pointing out the positives and also recognises 1 point is relegation stuff- the other feels obliged not only to trash talk any alternate point of view (on auto-reply than the ( Russell is shit) but also -and this is a clear distinction - to load up with abuse disrespect and invent new terms of insult for the poster. Let alone deliberately misread posts.
Those who do that just get away with it time after time. By resorting to personal abuse and insults like you mostly all do I  know ( and you know) that you have got no argument - abuse and word violence is not a discussion. Many of that ilk seem massive keyboard warriors ~ quick to hurl off insults from the safety of your devices but I’d guess in real life you’d never say what you say to anyone’s face.  I guess in that sense it’s a home for cowards, and there’s obviously a lot out tonight all eager to gang up on anyone who cares to voice an opinion that is not “ Russell is shit”. Enjoy rest of the nights moans. The only thing makes you happy gets you excited is moaning about RM. Quite a sad state of affairs don’t you think. 

Bollocks, Russell is shit.

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, benali-shorts said:

I didn’t think I’d see a worse left winger than Fraser or BB-D this season, but credit to Cornet, he’s done them both. 

Cornet was very poor indeed but BBD has to be the worst of the bunch. How on earth did he score so many for Blackburn? He just doesn't look like a football player in the slightest. 

[Give it to Ron]

9 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Cornet was very poor indeed but BBD has to be the worst of the bunch. How on earth did he score so many for Blackburn? He just doesn't look like a football player in the slightest. 

He even managed to trip over own feet with no-one near him! SAA being blocked by Fraser, Cornet, BBD and Sully when Sam offers far more potential . BBD just looks so crap

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not really helping Ipswich or Leicester though is it?

 

5 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not really helping Ipswich or Leicester though is it?

Last time I looked they were above us in the table.

[verlaine1979]

3 hours ago, SWLondon Saint said:

He's not really trying to do anything spectacular and revolutionary, there are plenty of other teams and coaches who play possession-based, they just do it better and smarter! Brighton have been the best example of in the EPL other than City, elsewhere you could look at Lille, Weirder Bremen, Leverkusen, obviously Barca and probably Real Sociedad and even the current Spain team.

It's not going to result in your Saints World Club Cup dream unfortunately - because if Martin was doing spectacularly well with it, he'd be poached sooner than you can say 'record manager fee'. But unfortunately, he is simply not doing a good enough job. Look at other fairly new first time coaches like Alonso, Amorim, Inzaghi - also all ex players and really making their players and teams improve and really excelling in all aspects of the game.

As I said some time back, Martin  went straight from playing into coaching, he's reached the limits of his present ability and he just looks out of his depth. I absolutely think he could get better, but I don't think that'll happen in this stint because a) you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps and b) his attitude does seem to be that he knows best, which isn't usually conducive to learning.

Spot on - Martin's only trick is hoping that passing it around at the back will lure the opposition out of position. There's nothing remotely inventive about his formations or in-play tactics. It's just a facile version of the cliche that the opposition can't score if you've got the ball. 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

1 hour ago, verlaine1979 said:

Spot on - Martin's only trick is hoping that passing it around at the back will lure the opposition out of position. There's nothing remotely inventive about his formations or in-play tactics. It's just a facile version of the cliche that the opposition can't score if you've got the ball. 

What a ridiculous assessment. He knows far more than you’ll ever know about the game 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

8 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

We need a crowd reaction much sooner than that, namely a few weeks ago, but certainly immediately after the Everton match if we don't win. The fans are the only ones that can force Ankersen and the rest of the SR clowns to take action. They were the reason that they reluctantly got rid of Mad Nate.

Actually it would be even better if the fans vent their anger at the root of the problem, Ankersen and the rest of the SR clowns.

Calm down. Only chance you’ve got of causing a disruption is if they ran out face paint in the fanzone 

[Toussaint]

8 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Bollocks, Russell is shit.

The case for the prosecution rests m’lud 

[LiberalCommunist]

 For me it’s no longer about this season. A decision needs to be made based upon next year. There is no point in sacking him at the end of this term when we’re relegated. Make a change now and we can start preparing the nucleus of the team.  Allowing Russell Martin a crack at the championship next season would represent utter madness. 

 

[Kenilworthy]

1 hour ago, LiberalCommunist said:

 For me it’s no longer about this season. A decision needs to be made based upon next year. There is no point in sacking him at the end of this term when we’re relegated. Make a change now and we can start preparing the nucleus of the team.  Allowing Russell Martin a crack at the championship next season would represent utter madness. 

 

What would be really annoying if the new manager took us to something like 25 points and we realise that we could have had a chance of staying up had we took action sooner.

[Chewy]

56 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

 For me it’s no longer about this season. A decision needs to be made based upon next year. There is no point in sacking him at the end of this term when we’re relegated. Make a change now and we can start preparing the nucleus of the team.  Allowing Russell Martin a crack at the championship next season would represent utter madness. 

 

Have to agree, this season is done. We need a boss in place long enough ahead of January to give him enough time to work out who to bin off, then they have a 6 month pre-season. On current form no one except Dibling and Fernandes (plus KWP due to contract) will be snapped up so it’ll be largely next years squad he gets to work with.

There is absolutely zero point continuing the pretence. Everyone knows what’s going to happen, it’s just a matter of when. Let’s have a plan for once, please, as opposed to taking a punt on Jones, Ruben and Russell.

Realistically I’d want a new person in place early December so there’s a bit of time, but the longer we leave it the worse the “scar tissue” will get

[Whitey Grandad]

7 hours ago, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

What a ridiculous assessment. He knows far more than you’ll ever know about the game 

He only knows one thing.

[Convict Colony]

11 hours ago, Turkish said:

 

Thanks for the inspiration hahaha

[tdmickey3]

7 hours ago, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

What a ridiculous assessment. He knows far more than you’ll ever know about the game 

We have another cheerleader, another relation, hairdresser??

[SWLondon Saint]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cq6l2mq23nyo

Obviously I know we're not going to get Amorim, but just read this article about him - humble, always trying to learn and improve, and most importantly, with the same squad and players, overachieves.

We should be trying to find the next Amorim, not sticking with someone who does none of the above.

[FarehamSaintJames]

I would love us to get rid of RM this morning and have a new one in place by lunchtime.

Unfortunately, I don’t trust Sport Republic to make the right appointment.

Expectation is someone of Graham Potter levels, realty is they’ll probably get Lampard or Rooney.

[Fabrice29]

26 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Expectation is someone of Graham Potter levels

That’s a you problem not SR.

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

What a ridiculous assessment. He knows far more than you’ll ever know about the game 

Hi Lucy. Can you add a profile picture please?

[Oldandtired]

7 hours ago, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

Calm down. Only chance you’ve got of causing a disruption is if they ran out face paint in the fanzone 

I found your profile pic…

[trousers]

8 hours ago, LoyalSaintSO50 said:

What a ridiculous assessment. He knows far more than you’ll ever know about the game 

Apart from when he used to think playing Mason Holgate was a good idea...?

Edited 30 October, 2024 by trousers

[austsaint]

2 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

 For me it’s no longer about this season. A decision needs to be made based upon next year. There is no point in sacking him at the end of this term when we’re relegated. Make a change now and we can start preparing the nucleus of the team.  Allowing Russell Martin a crack at the championship next season would represent utter madness. 

 

It would be the looniest of looney tunes for SR to play if they (a) leave Martin in the job all season (b) green light him to manage Saints again in the Championship 25/26.   There was a lot of noise made about the broken club we were when relegated in 2023 with 25 points , and the resultant “scar tissue” Martin inherited.  What state is he going to leave the Club in?    Surely the  damage control needs attending to now, ( 2 or 3 games ago ideally).   Make the change Sports Republic.