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Kaiser Soze

By Kaiser Soze
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Raging Bull

Raging Bull

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don’t like this type of thread whilst the bloke is still in place, but I have to say that it’s stark how big the gap is now between established lower PL clubs and us. There cannot be any gambles on our survival, especially with this squad and its limitations  

Even after our decade plus in the league prior to our relegation, the gap is huge  

It really shows just how bad our team was and how bad the recruitment has been. 

However, I was rather hoping Newcastle were going to start badly because I’d love Howe here. 

If the rumours are true that all isn’t well behind the scenes at Newcastle then I’d love it to be him. 

Edited by Raging Bull
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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted

They have recruited for a specific style of football so to suddenly rip that up after 4 or 5 games and think someone like Moyes would suddenly make it all work is ridiculous.

We have one of the worst 3 teams/squads in the league, without question because of the PL riches and amount of very established teams we are competing with. Any manager will be working with that and find it tough.

If we were to beat Ipswich we would likely move out of the bottom three in any case and thats our only aim for the season.

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Green

Green

Posted
Posted

Be careful what you wish for.

People wanted Ralph out and we got Nathan Jones.

Potter is a very good manager but can't see what's in it for him, he's turned down better offers already.

I think they'll give him a longer run and then if they do decide it will be another Championship manager or left field European appointment that we've never heard of but they would have to fit this style of play so rules out Moyes and his type.

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saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
  On 15/09/2024 at 19:31, Raging Bull said:

I don’t like this type of thread whilst the bloke is still in place, but I have to say that it’s stark how big the gap is now between established lower PL clubs and us. There cannot be any gambles on our survival, especially with this squad and its limitations  

Even after our decade plus in the league prior to our relegation, the gap is huge  

It really shows just how bad our team was and how bad the recruitment has been. 

However, I was rather hoping Newcastle were going to start badly because I’d love Howe here. 

If the rumours are true that all isn’t well behind the scenes at Newcastle then I’d love it to be him. 

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Would love to see Ryan Fraser's reaction if Howe were to become our manager anytime soon - however, it's very unlikely to happen.

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
  On 15/09/2024 at 19:45, Green said:

Be careful what you wish for.

People wanted Ralph out and we got Nathan Jones.

Potter is a very good manager but can't see what's in it for him, he's turned down better offers already.

I think they'll give him a longer run and then if they do decide it will be another Championship manager or left field European appointment that we've never heard of but they would have to fit this style of play so rules out Moyes and his type.

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Potter has turned work down because Chelsea are still paying him £200k a week until October.

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saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
  On 15/09/2024 at 19:43, Dusic said:

They have recruited for a specific style of football Tso to suddenly rip that up after 4 or 5 games and think someone like Moyes would suddenly make it all work is ridiculous.

We have one of the worst 3 teams/squads in the league, without question because of the PL riches and amount of very established teams we are competing with. Any manager will be working with that and find it tough.

If we were to beat Ipswich we would likely move out of the bottom three in any case and thats our only aim for the season.

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I would defy anyone to describe this specific style of football - from what I see the one thing we don't have is any sort of shape or a defined style. It comes across as more off the cuff, make it up as you go.

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 15/09/2024 at 19:49, saintant said:

I would defy anyone to describe this specific style of football - from what I see the one thing we don't have is any sort of shape or a defined style. It comes across as more off the cuff, make it up as you go.

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We don’t look like a settled team. We look like a bunch of lads who have turned up with their boots. Understandable considering that we have had a new influx of players but they must be doing something in training. They’re obviously not doing fitness exercises.

Edited by Whitey Grandad
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aintforever

aintforever

Posted
Posted

Potter is the obvious choice, similar style of play but with more Premier League experience.

I think this lot are going down anyway regardless of manager, just not enough goals in the side. We’ve brought three Championship strikers, should have kept Adams and spent big on one decent goalscorer.

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Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 15/09/2024 at 20:26, aintforever said:

Potter is the obvious choice, similar style of play but with more Premier League experience.

I think this lot are going down anyway regardless of manager, just not enough goals in the side. We’ve brought three Championship strikers, should have kept Adams and spent big on one decent goalscorer.

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You can’t force an out of contract player, or any employee, to stay if they don’t want to do so. But I do agree that the combined purchases of Archer and BBD are strange when there’s not a McBurnie taller striker to play off. Individually you can see rationale for each player but they didn’t work together together at the Blades much, in fact I think BBD put Archer out of the side. Classic SR - good intentions but stats and data over the practicalities of building a functioning and effective XI on the pitch at a higher level. Buying one striker for £25m with some pace and height would have been more sensible, especially as Cornet can play up top as well.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 15/09/2024 at 20:37, Gloucester Saint said:

You can’t force an out of contract player, or any employee, to stay if they don’t want to do so. But I do agree that the combined purchases of Archer and BBD are strange when there’s not a McBurnie taller striker to play off. Individually you can see rationale for each player but they didn’t work together together at the Blades much, in fact I think BBD put Archer out of the side. Classic SR - good intentions but stats and data over the practicalities of building a functioning and effective XI on the pitch at a higher level. Buying one striker for £25m with some pace and height would have been more sensible, especially as Cornet can play up top as well.

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Indeed, but we were given mixed messages on this approach during the transfer window... One minute Russ is saying we can't go for players in the next price bracket up because it would mean breaking our strict wage structure then, days later, we're signing that very calibre of player in the goalkeeping position... Given the difference we've seen Ramsdale make between the sticks, if only we'd signed a similar calibre of player up top rather than fart around in the £10m - £15m bracket...

Edited by trousers
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Andrew Watson

Andrew Watson

Posted
Posted

Guardiola would struggle to win a game with this lot of players. Mostly championship players,a poor coaching set up and an even worse selection of players brought in during the summer [  even allowing for the fact we cannot afford better players]. A total shambles of a club at present,it pains me to say. As alluded to in the above comment,why did we not try and sign a decent striker instead of part of Sheffield Uniteds premier league strike force for a pittance in premier league terms. 30 million might just buy a 12 goal a season player instead of two strikers who will be lucky to score 8 -10 goals between them.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
  On 15/09/2024 at 19:13, Kaiser Soze said:

So who do you want to save us?

I’d love Potter but would settle for Moyes. Would steady the ship and probably keep us up.

What’s fat Sam doing these days?

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Not a cat's chance in hell that Ankersen and SR will hire anyone who is "old school". They are only going to hire someone sufficiently hipster and unproven at this level, which would show they are cleverest geniuses on the planet.

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted

Everyone is saying Potter - outside of the fact that he won't be interested, has anyone ever watched a Potter team play football. It's horrible. It's why Brighton fans were not unhappy to see him go. 

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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

Posted
Posted (edited)

The daftest and saddest thread we have had on here for quite a while. There will be a new manager here one day but not now, not this side of Christmas and unlikely even then.

Martin has his feet well under the table and will not be dislodged any time soon, nor should he be.

Everyone moaned because Nigel Adkins was not given a chance in the PL so be consistent and give this bloke a chance.

 

Edited by Charlie Wayman
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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
  On 16/09/2024 at 00:29, Dark Munster said:

Not a cat's chance in hell that Ankersen and SR will hire anyone who is "old school". They are only going to hire someone sufficiently hipster and unproven at this level, which would show they are cleverest geniuses on the planet.

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You mean apart from Nathan Jones who was about as ugly, route one and ‘old school’ as a manager could be?

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
  On 15/09/2024 at 23:44, CSA96 said:

Just four games after winning promotion at Wembley :lol:  fuck me I hate PL football nowadays

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He's out of his depth at this level and imo was last season as well, carried by better players.

Granted the squad isn't good enough in key areas (center of defence and center of teh forward line), but with Martin in charge, we're on course for smashing the Derby record. 

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 16/09/2024 at 07:58, Dman said:

He's out of his depth at this level and imo was last season as well, carried by better players.

Granted the squad isn't good enough in key areas (center of defence and center of teh forward line), but with Martin in charge, we're on course for smashing the Derby record. 

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So you're saying that we're not good enough defensively or attacking wise. I mean, not sure many Managers will be able to work with that.

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)

Point 1/ We are in the 10 game "adapting to the premier league" phase so anything more than 10 consecutive losses is a bonus

Point 2/ Martin has had bad runs before and turned them round

Point 3/ The lads are training brilliantly

Point 4/ This is the best period in our history

Given all that i expect us to begin our unstoppable march up the premier soccerball league once game week 10 is done.

Edited by Turkish
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miserableoldgit

miserableoldgit

Posted
Posted
  On 16/09/2024 at 06:23, Charlie Wayman said:

The daftest and saddest thread we have had on here for quite a while. There will be a new manager here one day but not now, not this side of Christmas and unlikely even then.

Martin has his feet well under the table and will not be dislodged any time soon, nor should he be.

Everyone moaned because Nigel Adkins was not given a chance in the PL so be consistent and give this bloke a chance.

 

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This IS TSW!!

gio1saints

gio1saints

Posted
Posted
  On 16/09/2024 at 00:29, Dark Munster said:

Not a cat's chance in hell that Ankersen and SR will hire anyone who is "old school". They are only going to hire someone sufficiently hipster and unproven at this level, which would show they are cleverest geniuses on the planet.

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Kinhell you got the SR hate bad  😂.

Last season the “hipster “ manager got us promoted playing some of, at times, the most beautiful football we’ve seen Saints play in many years.  Some of the goals were a delight. 
 

In trying to recreate that so far this season weve ducked up.  We lost four in a row. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
 

But your plan - which is essentially to start from scratch ditch the Manager and the coaching staff in favour of - blank- just anyone not hipster RM sounds more generic “that’s what clubs  owners are supposed to do “in four match losing run “  than an actual plan. Indeed it’s the kind of thoughtless sort of action you’d criticise SR for because there’s no coherent plan behind it- like signing Tall Paul for instance. 
If only football were as easy as “ sack the manager and sack the owners” Saints are trying to do things there way despite all the odds against. They deserve our respect, at least, for that, They  have that plus my support for what they are TRYING but currently Failing to do.Dont give up - don’t surrender 😇

 

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
  On 16/09/2024 at 08:19, Farmer Saint said:

So you're saying that we're not good enough defensively or attacking wise. I mean, not sure many Managers will be able to work with that.

 

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I'm saying that we'd likley struggle to stay up with this crop current, but with Martin and his sytle of play, that becomes no chance of staying up. 

A decent manager who could set us up to be harder to beat and hit teams on the counter, a bit like ipswich, would give us a fighting chance. 

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 16/09/2024 at 09:10, Dman said:

I'm saying that we'd likley struggle to stay up with this crop current, but with Martin and his sytle of play, that becomes no chance of staying up. 

A decent manager who could set us up to be harder to beat and hit teams on the counter, a bit like ipswich, would give us a fighting chance. 

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Martins team are always shit defensively. Our goals conceded was really poor last year, same when he was at MK Dons and Swansea. That trend has continued worryingly at least half the goals conceded were down to the system he plays or insistence on picking certain players who are not up to the level needed. It could have been much worse saturday but for Ramsdale and it's not like Man United are a brilliant team playing fantastic attacking football. The players might individually not be great but when you're gifting the opposition at least a goal a game what chance have you got?

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danjosaint

danjosaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

With the same problem that has blighted RM for the last 5yrs, he CANNOT set up a defence,  this year due to the higher standard we won't out score teams like last season so down we go , what's worrying after the penalty miss we pretty much gave up, that's not playing for the manager

Edited by danjosaint
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danjosaint

danjosaint

Posted
Posted

Also by definition keeping the ball tires out your opponents so how come we look so knackered come 60mins , maybe we need to do more fitness drills rather than poking a ball with our finger and jogging back 4yrds 

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
  On 16/09/2024 at 08:43, gio1saints said:

Last season the “hipster “ manager got us promoted playing some of, at times, the most beautiful football we’ve seen Saints play in many years.  Some of the goals were a delight. 

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That’s where you and I disagree. I guess your idea of beautiful football is different from mine.

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 16/09/2024 at 09:22, Dman said:

Naive to say the very least if you can't tell after 4 games that we're absolutely fucked, unless things drastically change. 

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Of course we're fucked unless things don't change, we've lost all 4 games. 

Do you get paid for this amazing insight? 

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted

4 games is long enough to see that a number of our players aren’t good enough for this league and they were summarily dropped on Saturday.

I don’t see why a manager can’t be judged the same way after 4 games.  Although I would like nothing more than the team gelling under Martin and us climbing the table.  
 
 

 

Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
  On 16/09/2024 at 09:58, Farmer Saint said:

Of course we're fucked unless things don't change, we've lost all 4 games. 

Do you get paid for this amazing insight? 

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by drastically change, I mean the manager.. so you're agreeing with me. Perfect. 

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 16/09/2024 at 10:02, Dman said:

by drastically change, I mean the manager.. so you're agreeing with me. Perfect. 

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I don't think we need to change the Manager - I have consistently said from the beginning of LAST season that the issue with PSR will mean if we got promoted we would not be able to purchase the players we needed to stay-up. I maintain that. 

We got relegated comfortably with a team that was clearly not good enough for the Premier League - we then sold 90% of our best players. We then got promoted by loaning two of our best players, who we then had to purchase for big bucks. I think Martin did a great job considering how much worse our team was player for player versus Leeds and Leicester (Ipswich did very well but had some fantastic momentum). 

I expect to get relegated comfortably this season, but that's due to the players - I have banged this drum consistently over the last 14 months - so this season, although frustrating, is 100% predictable (and I did). 

Edited by Farmer Saint
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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 16/09/2024 at 10:14, Farmer Saint said:

I don't think we need to change the Manager - I have consistently said from the beginning of LAST season that the issue with PSR will mean if we got promoted we would not be able to purchase the players we needed to stay-up. I maintain that. 

We got relegated comfortably with a team that was clearly not good enough for the Premier League - we then sold 90% of our best players. We then got promoted by loaning two of our best players, who we then had to purchase for big bucks. I think Martin did a great job considering how much worse our team was player for player versus Leeds and Leicester (Ipswich did very well but had some fantastic momentum). 

I expect to get relegated comfortably this season, but that's due to the players - I have banged this drum consistently over the last 14 months - so this season, although frustrating, is 100% predictable (and I did). 

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I don't disagree. As I said, staying up was always unlikley. However, we don't have the players to try and dominate the ball and games at this level, that is on the manager. We can't afford to ship 80+ odd goals this season, which, excessively conceeding, is the norm for a Martin team. 

A different style might give us a fighting chance. As good a chance as Leicester, Everton and Ipswich anyway. 

Edited by Dman
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Thripp87

Thripp87

Posted
Posted

I would personally give Russell the Ipswich and Leicester game. If he loses both of them then the writing is on the wall. 
There is no chance of a Moyes type replacement which is exactly what we would need to stay up in this league. 

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
  On 16/09/2024 at 10:34, Thripp87 said:

I would personally give Russell the Ipswich and Leicester game. If he loses both of them then the writing is on the wall. 
There is no chance of a Moyes type replacement which is exactly what we would need to stay up in this league. 

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I'm not sure that's actually true. Martin and this style was clearly introduced and championed by Wilcox. He's now gone and SR have history of completley changing style in Ralph -> Jones -> Selles. 

I'm not saying it'd be sensible, but I wouldn't rule it out. 

 

Disco Stu

Disco Stu

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 16/09/2024 at 11:00, ecuk268 said:

In 2012 it was 4 losses and 14 goals conceded but Adkins was given until January when he was starting to turn things round.

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Three of those games were against Man City, Man United and Arsenal. We also managed 5 goals. There were things to be positive about.

I've never been convinced by Martin. I'm one of those of the opinion we got promotion in spite of him not because of him. I haven't been calling for his head yet but everything I've seen so far suggests he can't organise a defense and his in-game management is poor in regards to the quadruple substitution this week and essentially the same with quick fire double subs in previous weeks. If we end the month on 0 points, then I'll be Martin out. Ipswich, with a tougher start, have made a much better account of themselves so far and I don't think it's because they have a better squad. I think they have a much better manager. It does make a difference.

Edited by Disco Stu
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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted

Scott Parker got Boscombe promoted & was sacked the following Aug, despite actually winning a game in the Premier League. They ended up staying up. 
 

We’re not some 2 bit noddy club grateful to be in the big time, we’ve spent most of the past 60 years at this level. If Lego doesn’t get a couple of wins under his belt before the next international break he needs to fuck off. 
 

Clearly Davie Moyes would be the best bet if you wanted an experienced hardened manager used to operating at this level. 

 

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