Saints 0-3 Man Utd - Match Thread

[Jack]

 

Well this United fan appears to have been paying attention. 

[Dark Munster]

38 minutes ago, Jack said:

Well this United fan appears to have been paying attention. 

Yes indeed.

And sad that an opposition fan seems to have a much better understanding of what's wrong with our tactics than our own manager.

[AlexLaw76]

5 hours ago, Jack said:

 

Well this United fan appears to have been paying attention. 

That is very accurate on how the game will pan-out

[CB Fry]

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That is very accurate on how the game will pan-out

40 minutes of "if we play like that for the rest of the season we'll be fine"

Concede on half time. Drab second half. Chaotic substitions. Dibling sparkles for 10 minutes.

Lose 0-3.

62% possession, so really a win if you think about it.

An evening of "how dare anyone we think we should sack the manager just because we lost to the richest biggest club in the world, you bedwetters are a disgrace" on this forum.

[Fabrice29]

Not a lot of that first paragraph is true?

We are quite obviously suited to the style because we’ve been doing it for a year with success. What he means is ‘at this level’ which is still up for debate obviously.

Also no attacking threat whatsoever/why they have only scored one goal is funny for a team who has had more shots than United and has missed 3? chances from 6 yards out. Reckon that’s a bigger reason for only scoring 1 goal than nothing passes at the back.

Edited September 13 by Fabrice29

[Charlie Wayman]

Comfortable win for Saints despite the fears of many, 2-0

[saintant]

It would come as no surprise to me if KWP is one of the players dropped for this game. I have a feeling RM night go for Charlie Taylor at left back. He'll also likely drop Smallbone and probably the front two.

RM will have watched tapes of Liverpool operating a 4-2-3-1 system as they comprehensively took Man Utd apart. Unfortunately, despite the fact that the top dozen teams apart from Arsenal utilise this system as did England under Carsley, he will stick to his 5-1-2-2. He'll play two wing backs who don't actually play as wing backs because they will get sucked into the pointless tippy-tappy keep ball and, if they do venture forward, they'll have little or no support. 

Something needs to change to get the best out of what is a reasonable squad of players. Maybe Russ will surprise me tomorrow though I wouldn't bet on it.

[suewhistle]

Although that fan analysis was reasonable I have hopes that with Fernandes and Lesley in midfield we'll have more drive there, along with maybe Dibling coming on earlier. Will Cornet and/or Fraser play as they too will add a bit of experience and directness?

Something has got to change, obviously, the main thing perhaps is not giving the ball away in stupid positions although shooting and finishing from a few yards out would also help..

[macca155]

11 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Most consistently poor.

Stephens is the root of our problems.

Oh come on that is straightforward bigotry towards a player.

At the moment Saints are better with him on the pitch. That doesn't say a great deal about the other defenders but that's where we are at the moment.

[Fabrice29]

51 minutes ago, saintant said:

It would come as no surprise to me if KWP is one of the players dropped for this game. I have a feeling RM night go for Charlie Taylor at left back. He'll also likely drop Smallbone and probably the front two.

RM will have watched tapes of Liverpool operating a 4-2-3-1 system as they comprehensively took Man Utd apart. Unfortunately, despite the fact that the top dozen teams apart from Arsenal utilise this system as did England under Carsley, he will stick to his 5-1-2-2. He'll play two wing backs who don't actually play as wing backs because they will get sucked into the pointless tippy-tappy keep ball and, if they do venture forward, they'll have little or no support. 

Something needs to change to get the best out of what is a reasonable squad of players. Maybe Russ will surprise me tomorrow though I wouldn't bet on it.

‘Something needs to change, not the changes that I have weirdly hypothesised the manager will make, but something. Not the changes this manager makes if we lose, but something. Maybe the manager will surprise me and his changes will lead to a win which is what I’ve been calling for all this time’

Edited September 13 by Fabrice29

[austsaint]

53 minutes ago, saintant said:

It would come as no surprise to me if KWP is one of the players dropped for this game. I have a feeling RM night go for Charlie Taylor at left back. He'll also likely drop Smallbone and probably the front two.

RM will have watched tapes of Liverpool operating a 4-2-3-1 system as they comprehensively took Man Utd apart. Unfortunately, despite the fact that the top dozen teams apart from Arsenal utilise this system as did England under Carsley, he will stick to his 5-1-2-2. He'll play two wing backs who don't actually play as wing backs because they will get sucked into the pointless tippy-tappy keep ball and, if they do venture forward, they'll have little or no support. 

Something needs to change to get the best out of what is a reasonable squad of players. Maybe Russ will surprise me tomorrow though I wouldn't bet on it.

I get the argument for playing a natural LB like Taylor, but never, ever at the expense of KWP being in the starting lineup.    It's a curious situation where we have two high quality RBs - reminiscent of Tino and KWP two seasons back.   KWP is still a better RB than Sugawara who has been very impressive.    If one has to go, it has to be Sugawara, or we continue with playing KWP out of position at left back, particularly if a Fraser or Cornet is ahead of him.

Smallbone has to drop out of the side - if RM doesn't employ Downes, Fernandes and Les Ugo as his midfield he's not learning quickly enough in my book.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

8 hours ago, Jack said:

 

Well this United fan appears to have been paying attention. 

Honestly can somebody please send this summary to Russell Martin. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

40 minutes of "if we play like that for the rest of the season we'll be fine"

Concede on half time. Drab second half. Chaotic substitions. Dibling sparkles for 10 minutes.

Lose 0-3.

62% possession, so really a win if you think about it.

An evening of "how dare anyone we think we should sack the manager just because we lost to the richest biggest club in the world, you bedwetters are a disgrace" on this forum.

Bookmark this post for full time. 

[Rebel]

8 hours ago, Jack said:

 

Well this United fan appears to have been paying attention. 

It's accurate summary of our games in the premier league so far this season but it's based on watching Saints try and fail to play a 3-5-2.

I am hoping we go with a 4-3-3 set up and play very differently as a result - for one thing playing Cameron Archer as a centre forward will give us a focal point up front.

I hope we go for a starting line up something like this:

                                       Ramsdale

KWP/Sugawara          THB        Bednarek      Taylor

                                   Downes

                Aribo                   Fernandes

Armstrong                                   BBD/Fraser

                               Archer

with Dibling and Big Les making an appearance from the bench.  

I would give Adarma one more chance to make an impact and if he doesn't he needs to be dropped as a starter for Dibling or Cornet. Although I am tempted to start with Dibling and use Adarma as a sub.

[Thripp87]

With no sign of him leaving we need to start reintroducing ABK to the first team. If it means captain calamity is further down the pecking order then it’s for the best.

 

[Dman]

United are unmotived and a poor side. However, they'll stick 3 or 4 past us with relative ease if they fancy putting some effort in and pressing us. 

I don't see any situation where we win this one. I reckon a comfortable 0-2. 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

It would come as no surprise to me if KWP is one of the players dropped for this game. I have a feeling RM night go for Charlie Taylor at left back. He'll also likely drop Smallbone and probably the front two.

RM will have watched tapes of Liverpool operating a 4-2-3-1 system as they comprehensively took Man Utd apart. Unfortunately, despite the fact that the top dozen teams apart from Arsenal utilise this system as did England under Carsley, he will stick to his 5-1-2-2. He'll play two wing backs who don't actually play as wing backs because they will get sucked into the pointless tippy-tappy keep ball and, if they do venture forward, they'll have little or no support. 

Something needs to change to get the best out of what is a reasonable squad of players. Maybe Russ will surprise me tomorrow though I wouldn't bet on it.

I also think a double pivot could work for us, especially if we go 4 at the back but City play a 4-3-3 with one pivot, as did England on Tuesday - I'm sure many others play a single pivot or switch between a single and a double depending on game condition.

[Midfield_General]

I'd go 4-3-3:

                               Archer

          Cornet                              Dibling

                            Fernandes

                Downes               Lesley           

KWP        Bednarek         THB     Sugawara

                             Ramsdale

 

Subs: Macca, Stephens, ABK, Lallana, Aribo, Fraser, SAA, Stewart, BBD.

No room for Armstrong, Smallbone or Taylor - sorry lads. 

We won't though.  

Edited September 13 by Midfield_General

[notnowcato]

Has Ugochukwu been away on international duty?

[Osvaldorama]

3 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Not a lot of that first paragraph is true?

We are quite obviously suited to the style because we’ve been doing it for a year with success. What he means is ‘at this level’ which is still up for debate obviously.

Also no attacking threat whatsoever/why they have only scored one goal is funny for a team who has had more shots than United and has missed 3? chances from 6 yards out. Reckon that’s a bigger reason for only scoring 1 goal than nothing passes at the back.

Sadly the United fan is pretty much spot on.  
How are you defining ‘success’?

If we had won the championship you’d be entitled to this opinion. 
However the fact is we stumbled up, despite the crazy tactics, because we went a lot more direct for the playoffs. So the jury is very much still out on Martin’s style. 

But anyway, I’m sure it will work this time 

[SaintNewForest]

12 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Most consistently poor.

Stephens is the root of our problems.

And people say that there isn't a narrative against Stephens? What bollocks. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

And people say that there isn't a narrative against Stephens? What bollocks. 

It’s not a narrative and I’m not even sure if you know what that means.

He doesn’t have the discipline and concentration needed for this level. I have reached this conclusion after having suffered watching him for several seasons now. My opinion is based on what I see and not what I feel. If he plays tomorrow then we are in trouble.

[Fabrice29]

14 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Sadly the United fan is pretty much spot on.  
How are you defining ‘success’?

If we had won the championship you’d be entitled to this opinion. 
However the fact is we stumbled up, despite the crazy tactics, because we went a lot more direct for the playoffs. So the jury is very much still out on Martin’s style. 

But anyway, I’m sure it will work this time 

Achieving the overall goal of the season felt like success. As did the record breaking unbeaten run. The lots of goals we scored and enjoyment of the football we were served up.   But yea, crazy tactics, jury still out, didn’t win the league, we changed everything for the two games we won at the end and ignore all the ones we won before that narrative is strong. 

Edited September 13 by Fabrice29

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

Achieving the overall goal of the season felt like success. As did the record breaking unbeaten run. The lots of goals we scored and enjoyment of the football we were served up.   But yea, crazy tactics, jury still out, didn’t win the league narrative is strong. 

I never got excited over the unbeaten run. Probably because it was nothing special in the wider football world. Do you think any other supporter gives a toss?

As for enjoyment of the football I can only conclude that you have been starved of real all-out attacking, pulsating football for most of your life.

[Fabrice29]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

I never got excited over the unbeaten run. Probably because it was nothing special in the wider football world. Do you think any other supporter gives a toss?

As for enjoyment of the football I can only conclude that you have been starved of real all-out attacking, pulsating football for most of your life.

Nope and correct. 

[SaintNewForest]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It’s not a narrative and I’m not even sure if you know what that means.

He doesn’t have the discipline and concentration needed for this level. I have reached this conclusion after having suffered watching him for several seasons now. My opinion is based on what I see and not what I feel. If he plays tomorrow then we are in trouble.

To say he is the "root of our problems" is just ignorance, plain and simple. We have a lot of problems right now, not all of them the fault of Jack Stephens.  

Fine, if you don't rate him, we all have our opinions on players, don't have a problem with that; but hating on him unnecessarily by saying he's the root of all our problems is just scapegoating a player for no reason. Is he the reason why we can't score, or why our strikers are so toothless? Is he the reason Martin plays the way he does? Is he the reason our midfield has been weak as piss? 

[Convict Colony]

37 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

I'd go 4-3-3:

                               Archer

          Cornet                              Dibling

                            Fernandes

                Downes               Lesley           

KWP        Bednarek         THB     Sugawara

                             Ramsdale

 

Subs: Macca, Stephens, ABK, Lallana, Aribo, Fraser, SAA, Stewart, BBD.

No room for Armstrong, Smallbone or Taylor - sorry lads. 

We won't though.  

100% this but I'd allow Fraser to start over Dibbling if needed to help out KWP.

We will be lucky if we get 1 change though.

Still I am an optimist dick so 2-0 saints

 

Edited September 13 by Convict Colony

[Midfield_General]

21 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

100% this but I'd allow Fraser to start over Dibbling if needed to help out KWP.

We will be lucky if we get 1 change though.

Still I am an optimist dick so 2-0 saints

 

Fair enough. If you're dropping Dibling to start Fraser on the left though, who have you got starting on the right? 

[Whitey Grandad]

30 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

To say he is the "root of our problems" is just ignorance, plain and simple. We have a lot of problems right now, not all of them the fault of Jack Stephens.  

Fine, if you don't rate him, we all have our opinions on players, don't have a problem with that; but hating on him unnecessarily by saying he's the root of all our problems is just scapegoating a player for no reason. Is he the reason why we can't score, or why our strikers are so toothless? Is he the reason Martin plays the way he does? Is he the reason our midfield has been weak as piss? 

Are you seriously calling me ignorant?

A scapegoat is someone or something that is innocent yet gets all the blame. Stephens does not fit this description.

Without a stable and solid defence we will struggle to create enough chances to have even a chance of surviving in this league. His presence does not give us a solid back line especially when combined with this ridiculous obsession with fannying around at the back.

I don’t think anyone knows the reason that Martin plays the way that we do. It defies all footballing logic. Yet Martin persists in selecting Stephens and must bear the responsibility for that.

We have a weak midfield because we effectively don’t play with one. When a key player there is Smallbone then we’re in deeper trouble. He’s another who’s not good enough for this level.

I don’t hate these players but I hate what they’re doing to our team. It’s not their fault that they’re not good enough.

[SaintNewForest]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Are you seriously calling me ignorant?

A scapegoat is someone or something that is innocent yet gets all the blame. Stephens does not fit this description.

Without a stable and solid defence we will struggle to create enough chances to have even a chance of surviving in this league. His presence does not give us a solid back line especially when combined with this ridiculous obsession with fannying around at the back.

I don’t think anyone knows the reason that Martin plays the way that we do. It defies all footballing logic. Yet Martin persists in selecting Stephens and must bear the responsibility for that.

We have a weak midfield because we effectively don’t play with one. When a key player there is Smallbone then we’re in deeper trouble. He’s another who’s not good enough for this level.

I don’t hate these players but I hate what they’re doing to our team. It’s not their fault that they’re not good enough.

"stephens is the root of all our problems" 

Your words, not mine. 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

Sadly the United fan is pretty much spot on.  
How are you defining ‘success’?

If we had won the championship you’d be entitled to this opinion. 
However the fact is we stumbled up, despite the crazy tactics, because we went a lot more direct for the playoffs. So the jury is very much still out on Martin’s style. 

But anyway, I’m sure it will work this time 

Yeah, think your understanding on the difference between fact and opinion needs a bit of work. 

[Alain Perrin]

Not since the days of Paul Telfer has so much ire been directed to a player without justification.  Granted he's no Busquets, but there are fans who'd blame him for a loss even if he was in Tescos at the time.

My view is that it's a team and you can have a good player made to look **** because of the sum of the parts around him, the position they're asked to play, the tactics and even the opponent.

Personally I quite like him.

Edited September 13 by Alain Perrin
Grandma

[Convict Colony]

22 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Fair enough. If you're dropping Dibling to start Fraser on the left though, who have you got starting on the right? 

Cornet, he's played there before a fair bit and is right footed.

Edited September 13 by Convict Colony

[ErwinK1961]

13 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Most consistently poor.

Stephens is the root of our problems.

The root of our problems… wow.

Think you’re going to be in for a shock when he comes out the team and… nothing changes.

[Midfield_General]

Cool. Think he's said he tends to prefer the left as he can cut inside and shoot, but if he's flexible enough to play either side then that's great as we look a little bit light on the right otherwise. I'm looking forward to seeing him. 

Edit: Re Cornet

Edited September 13 by Midfield_General

[Whitey Grandad]

39 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

The root of our problems… wow.

Think you’re going to be in for a shock when he comes out the team and… nothing changes.

That would be a start.

[Whitey Grandad]

58 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

"stephens is the root of all our problems" 

Your words, not mine. 

Yes, my words.

What’s your problem with that?

[Behind Enemy Lines]

2 hours ago, Alain Perrin said:

Not since the days of Paul Telfer has so much ire been directed to a player without justification.  Granted he's no Busquets, but there are fans who'd blame him for a loss even if he was in Tescos at the time.

My view is that it's a team and you can have a good player made to look **** because of the sum of the parts around him, the position they're asked to play, the tactics and even the opponent.

Personally I quite like him.

You better not go in the Lounge 😂 

(Small things that annoy me)

[sledger]

4 hours ago, austsaint said:

I get the argument for playing a natural LB like Taylor, but never, ever at the expense of KWP being in the starting lineup.    It's a curious situation where we have two high quality RBs - reminiscent of Tino and KWP two seasons back.   KWP is still a better RB than Sugawara who has been very impressive.    If one has to go, it has to be Sugawara, or we continue with playing KWP out of position at left back, particularly if a Fraser or Cornet is ahead of him.

Smallbone has to drop out of the side - if RM doesn't employ Downes, Fernandes and Les Ugo as his midfield he's not learning quickly enough in my book.

i disagree about kwp over sugawara,hes seeing his contract out for a big payout in the summer hes not gonna want to get injured,his levels this season not the same as last.Hes really average as a defender and is not what we need in a tough season,should have been offloaded for whatever we could get.

[Andy Hill]

ABK has to start in a back 4 - probably with Bednarek.

[Chris cooper]

14 minutes ago, Andy Hill said:

ABK has to start in a back 4 - probably with Bednarek.

Our best cb when 💯 fit by a solar system!

[jamesfp1]

14 hours ago, Jack said:

 

Well this United fan appears to have been paying attention. 

He seems more clued in than most on here  

[pingpong]

44 minutes ago, jamesfp1 said:

He seems more clued in than most on here  

Not really. Our strikers aren't forced out wide, that is a tactical decision. 

 

The irritating thing is that we chose that for the opposition we were playing against, not for every game, but what will happen is we will play them central, score a couple of goals, and the numbnuts on here will think they were right all along and that they know better than our professional coaching staff.

[Dark Munster]

54 minutes ago, jamesfp1 said:

He seems more clued in than most on here  

A few, not most. Most of us here agree with him. 

[Whitey Grandad]

Early kickoff, Boat Show and rail replacement buses if coming from the east. Not going to be fun.

[benjii]

‐--------   Archer --------

KWP ----- Dibbling------Cornet

------Downes--Fernandes----

Taylor--Janny B--THB--Suga

------Aaron Ramsdale-------

Sub: Macca, ABK, Manning, Les, Lallana, BBD, Fraser, SamAA, Armstrong 

[bpsaint]

Even thought united are pretty shite of late I still think they’ll do us about 1-3.

If Russ starts Waif Smallbones in the middle rather than Fernandes he can get fucked.

Edited September 13 by bpsaint

[Mr X]

7 hours ago, Rebel said:

It's accurate summary of our games in the premier league so far this season but it's based on watching Saints try and fail to play a 3-5-2.

I am hoping we go with a 4-3-3 set up and play very differently as a result - for one thing playing Cameron Archer as a centre forward will give us a focal point up front.

I hope we go for a starting line up something like this:

                                       Ramsdale

KWP/Sugawara          THB        Bednarek      Taylor

                                   Downes

                Aribo                   Fernandes

Armstrong                                   BBD/Fraser

                               Archer

with Dibling and Big Les making an appearance from the bench.  

I would give Adarma one more chance to make an impact and if he doesn't he needs to be dropped as a starter for Dibling or Cornet. Although I am tempted to start with Dibling and use Adarma as a sub.

Does anyone know the logic of why AA looks so bad at premier league level but decent at championship? Is it Just a case that the players in the championship are a lot slower in general and slower to react and he has more time on the ball?

He seems confident at that level but like a rabbit in the headlights against better opposition 

[verlaine1979]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Does anyone know the logic of why AA looks so bad at premier league level but decent at championship? Is it Just a case that the players in the championship are a lot slower in general and slower to react and he has more time on the ball?

He seems confident at that level but like a rabbit in the headlights against better opposition 

At this level he generally has to go past someone or make space before he can get his shot away, and he just doesn't have the talent to do that. He's the same player, it's just that defenders are quicker and defenses more disciplined in the PL. He runs into a brick wall every time he has the ball.

[Saint_clark]

9 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

Honestly can somebody please send this summary to Russell Martin. 

He'll probably be proud that his defence are passing it well.