Saints 0-3 Man Utd - Match Thread

[Bakovnetski]

7 hours ago, CB Fry said:

I was a bit off on the possession prediction.

Other than that I did get a slight chill when the third goal went in.....

Yes ditto. It wasn't possession football lost us the game it was poor defending when we had every one behind the ball virtually. We need to be far smarter in defence as a team and block or tackle as if their lives depend on it. 

Poor idea to get Archer to take the penalty too. And he can't play with his back to goal. Ross in for me next time.

[BotleySaint]

8 hours ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

You would hope so but I have just watched Bournemouth play Chelsea and they were unlucky not to come away with a point. Everton will be smarting from losing a 2 nil lead to come away with a 3-2 lose in their last 2 matches so may have a point to prove. On present form I think 4 points may be nearer the mark. 

I made a mistake here. The Everton game is a cup match. Next three in the league are Ipswich, Bournemouth and Arsenal. Followed by Leicester then Man City... 

[Wade Garrett]

Jack Stephens is a fucking onion.  Why the fuck didn’t he push up with the rest of the back line for their first goal.  Shite.

 

[SNSUN]

It's not all bad, I was given naming rights to Saints new 75k stadium on FM...

😜

[Harry_SFC]

21 minutes ago, Bakovnetski said:

Yes ditto. It wasn't possession football lost us the game it was poor defending when we had every one behind the ball virtually. We need to be far smarter in defence as a team and block or tackle as if their lives depend on it. 

Poor idea to get Archer to take the penalty too. And he can't play with his back to goal. Ross in for me next time.

I think it's inevitable we are going to leak goals with RM in charge (his defensive record at every club is horrendous) but it isn't helped by playing players who have shown in the past they are not good enough to play in this league. Added with the fact we've yet again failed to bring in a proper striker, it's going to be a long painful season.

[Wade Garrett]

KWP really isn’t a left-back.  Thought he was pretty poor yesterday.

Loved Dibling giving them such a hard time yesterday.  Nice to watch a player who stands a defender up and tries to beat him every time.

Good to see Stewart on the pitch as well.  Looked tidy.

 

[S-Clarke]

For the first 30 mins, as everyone has said, I thought we had finally come to life. I liked the setup and the spaces between everyone, we were pressing United and constantly winning the turnovers. Fernandes in midfield was popping up in the pockets and playing some wonderful passes down the sides, or across. Dibbling has Dalot on toast. It was kind of what we'd been waiting for.

The penalty was shit. It wasn't a good save, it was crap. But the problems stemmed from that. Our heads dropped, our mentality dropped and with one foul swoop of something bad happening we crumbled yet again - it's a criticism I've had of this club for years now, different players, different managers, but whenever adversity hits we just melt in front of our eyes. 

Defensively from open play, I thought we were open and got caught on the turnover a few times in the 2nd half. Ramsdale earned his wage, and given it was 3-0 anyway, that is pretty worrying. The first goal was absolutley woeful defensively, but equally that third goal was a joke in terms of THB failing to play the line correctly - basic stuff, really.

At the end of the day, a good 30mins in the Championship can put you 3-0 up (like against PNE), but a good 30mins in the PL doesn't really ever equate to anything other than a defeat. We still look and act naive in moments both on the pitch and on the bench. We don't look capable of sticking in and nicking something if other things aren't going well.

It's all about next week for me. If we lose next week then I think it's probably curtains.

[Gloucester Saint]

16 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

For the first 30 mins, as everyone has said, I thought we had finally come to life. I liked the setup and the spaces between everyone, we were pressing United and constantly winning the turnovers. Fernandes in midfield was popping up in the pockets and playing some wonderful passes down the sides, or across. Dibbling has Dalot on toast. It was kind of what we'd been waiting for.

The penalty was shit. It wasn't a good save, it was crap. But the problems stemmed from that. Our heads dropped, our mentality dropped and with one foul swoop of something bad happening we crumbled yet again - it's a criticism I've had of this club for years now, different players, different managers, but whenever adversity hits we just melt in front of our eyes. 

Defensively from open play, I thought we were open and got caught on the turnover a few times in the 2nd half. Ramsdale earned his wage, and given it was 3-0 anyway, that is pretty worrying. The first goal was absolutley woeful defensively, but equally that third goal was a joke in terms of THB failing to play the line correctly - basic stuff, really.

At the end of the day, a good 30mins in the Championship can put you 3-0 up (like against PNE), but a good 30mins in the PL doesn't really ever equate to anything other than a defeat. We still look and act naive in moments both on the pitch and on the bench. We don't look capable of sticking in and nicking something if other things aren't going well.

It's all about next week for me. If we lose next week then I think it's probably curtains.

Agree with all of that. Such a shame after a positive start, Archer’s penalty was pathetic. But then BBD should have been on it, known he was on it and practising all week. That’s down to the manager.

What’s happened to Calderwood? We need the defenders drilling all week on the basics of defensive lines and shape Pulis-style, they are the bread and butter of the PL. If it’s good enough for City, Arsenal and Liverpool to do it…..

Edited Sunday at 08:08 by Gloucester Saint

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Gloucester Saint said:

Agree with all of that. Such a shame after a positive start, Archer’s penalty was pathetic. But then BBD should have been on it, known he was in it and practising all week. That’s the manager.

What’s happened to Calderwood? We need the defenders drilling all week on the basics of defensive lines and shape Pulis-style, they are the bread and butter of the PL. If it’s good enough for City, Arsenal and Liverpool to do it…..

I mean, Calderwood signing did coincide with us keeping a couple of clean sheets last season, but we still conceded 60 odd goals. So he's not some sort of defensive master coach by any means.

We'll concede 70 odd goals this year without sweat. The problem is that Martin and his lot cannot coach defensive organisation, all the focus is on passing and playing through the lines, but being able to remain organised when we are on the ball to defend against turnovers is our achilles heal. It was the same last season against any decent side with power and pace on the break. This year every team has power and pace on the break. It's hard to see how we survive, as this pattern hasn't changed in over a year.

It's food and drink for PL sides really. We have two ways teams can get us - let us have the ball in the middle thirds/back 4 and tempt us out,  then win the ball back and run at Stephens and Bednarek. Job done. Pretty easy for opposition managers.

Or use our passing back to the CB's as a trigger to press hard and tie up Stephens and Bednarek in all sorts of knots, and get a few free shots on goal. Another job done.

[LeG]

Did we ever replace the set piece coach? Boy do we need to. Club making basic errors at boardroom level and also on the pitch. Need to sort it out.

[Gloucester Saint]

12 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I mean, Calderwood signing did coincide with us keeping a couple of clean sheets last season, but we still conceded 60 odd goals. So he's not some sort of defensive master coach by any means.

We'll concede 70 odd goals this year without sweat. The problem is that Martin and his lot cannot coach defensive organisation, all the focus is on passing and playing through the lines, but being able to remain organised when we are on the ball to defend against turnovers is our achilles heal. It was the same last season against any decent side with power and pace on the break. This year every team has power and pace on the break. It's hard to see how we survive, as this pattern hasn't changed in over a year.

It's food and drink for PL sides really. We have two ways teams can get us - let us have the ball in the middle thirds/back 4 and tempt us out,  then win the ball back and run at Stephens and Bednarek. Job done. Pretty easy for opposition managers.

Or use our passing back to the CB's as a trigger to press hard and tie up Stephens and Bednarek in all sorts of knots, and get a few free shots on goal. Another job done.

This got laughed at another thread, but I’d ask Tony Pulis if he’d come in a couple of times a week to help with defensive drills on shape, triggers and offsides. He’s local, likes the club and is well past the point of wanting to manage overall again so not a threat to Russell. His sides weren’t great to watch at all but they rarely conceded any of the idiot goals we’ve conceded this season, and most of last as well.

Edited Sunday at 08:26 by Gloucester Saint

[eurosaint]

10 hours ago, rallyboy said:

If you ever consider the BBC player ratings to be accurate just remind yourself that Tyler Dibling was comfortably outscored today by EVERY single Man Utd player, including Harry Maguire.

Laughable.

I used to get annoyed by that as well but apparently it is fans who vote, not a (so called) BBC expert hence when you play big clubs in particular you will get a completely

lop-sided viewpoint :

People also ask

 

 

What is the player rater on BBC Sports?

 

 

Related BBC sites

It can be used to give players marks out of 10 during the game but it is not only here for the live action. You can have your say after the final whistle too and see how others have rated the players. The aggregated scores will be displayed in our live console and updated as more scores come in.

[stknowle]

Just seen the highlights and fuck me that could very easily have been 6 or 7 nil and one of Utd’s  ‘should’ve scored’ moments (a bad Zirkzee miss) was during the best half an hour of football we’ve managed this season.

2 of the goals were down to basic rank bad organisation. Stephens for the first - get the fuck out with the rest of the defence. THB for the third ditto but even worse if anything, 3 or 4m behind the rest of them playing their man on. Really really poor I’m afraid, and basic stuff.

As for us 2 chances, a hopeless pen from someone who shouldn’t have been taking it (and looked like he very much knew that), and a well crafted effort from a 18 year old rookie who is proving to be our standout attacking force.

Carry on like this and we’ve got some humiliating batterings coming our way.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Just seen the highlights and fuck me that could very easily have been 6 or 7 nil and one of Utd’s  ‘should’ve scored’ moments (a bad Zirkzee miss) was during the best half an hour of football we’ve managed this season.

2 of the goals were down to basic rank bad organisation. Stephens for the first - get the fuck out with the rest of the defence. THB for the third ditto but even worse if anything, 3 or 4m behind the rest of them playing their man on. Really really poor I’m afraid, and basic stuff.

As for us 2 chances, a hopeless pen from someone who shouldn’t have been taking it (and looked like he very much knew that), and a well crafted effort from a 18 year old rookie who is proving to be our standout attacking force.

Carry on like this and we’ve got some humiliating batterings coming our way.

 

What is it about our defensive back line? Yesterday first Stephens and then THB dropped back several yards playing the opposition onside. This cannot be a coincidence after these players have been together for more than a season. 
 

I think it’s a consequence of our obsession with playing it out from the back at all times. We have lost the ability to keep a solid straight back line with all players in touch with each other.

[Nordic Saint]

12 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Just seen the highlights and fuck me that could very easily have been 6 or 7 nil and one of Utd’s  ‘should’ve scored’ moments (a bad Zirkzee miss) was during the best half an hour of football we’ve managed this season.

2 of the goals were down to basic rank bad organisation. Stephens for the first - get the fuck out with the rest of the defence. THB for the third ditto but even worse if anything, 3 or 4m behind the rest of them playing their man on. Really really poor I’m afraid, and basic stuff.

As for us 2 chances, a hopeless pen from someone who shouldn’t have been taking it (and looked like he very much knew that), and a well crafted effort from a 18 year old rookie who is proving to be our standout attacking force.

Carry on like this and we’ve got some humiliating batterings coming our way.

 

Ramsdale had a brilliant game. He made some outstanding saves.

[Jack]

Pros:

- none conceded from fannying around at the back

- Dibling, Ramsdale

Cons:

- lots conceded from basic errors 

- every other cunt 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

What is it about our defensive back line? Yesterday first Stephens and then THB dropped back several yards playing the opposition onside. This cannot be a coincidence after these players have been together for more than a season. 
 

I think it’s a consequence of our obsession with playing it out from the back at all times. We have lost the ability to keep a solid straight back line with all players in touch with each other.

I think we have lost the ability to defend full stop. 

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

This got laughed at another thread, but I’d ask Tony Pulis if he’d come in a couple of times a week to help with defensive drills on shape, triggers and offsides. He’s local, likes the club and is well past the point of wanting to manage overall again so not a threat to Russell. His sides weren’t great to watch at all but they rarely conceded any of the idiot goals we’ve conceded this season, and most of last as well.

Actually not a bad shout.  I know it was related to the set piece fella last season but pretty sure I remember RM saying he didn't enjoy that specialist side of coaching.

[Whitey Grandad]

15 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Actually not a bad shout.  I know it was related to the set piece fella last season but pretty sure I remember RM saying he didn't enjoy that specialist side of coaching.

He doesn’t enjoy it because it’s about defending and he knows nothing about it. 

It doesn’t make pretty triangles.

[Mr X]

43 minutes ago, Jack said:

Pros:

- none conceded from fannying around at the back

- Dibling, Ramsdale

Cons:

- lots conceded from basic errors 

- every other cunt 

So basically it doesn't matter wether we fanny around with the ball at the back we still make mistakes and leak goals, it's clear RM is a very poor coach defensively from the amount of goals all his teams concede wherever he's been. 

[Roo1976]

2 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

I think it's inevitable we are going to leak goals with RM in charge (his defensive record at every club is horrendous) but it isn't helped by playing players who have shown in the past they are not good enough to play in this league. Added with the fact we've yet again failed to bring in a proper striker, it's going to be a long painful season.

something needs to be sorted out and quickly..................just saying but would Potter be able to COACH the team better or at least show signs of us being harder to beat and maybe show more of a threat going forward?,dunno but the longer we go on without looking likely to create scoring moments and goals the more together our play will become. BTW i think im right in saying Ramsdale has been relegated with every team hes played for at some capacity other than Arsenal i think.

[Sarnia Cherie]

2 hours ago, BotleySaint said:

I made a mistake here. The Everton game is a cup match. Next three in the league are Ipswich, Bournemouth and Arsenal. Followed by Leicester then Man City... 

Perhaps 1 point then. 😂

[Roo1976]

37 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Actually not a bad shout.  I know it was related to the set piece fella last season but pretty sure I remember RM saying he didn't enjoy that specialist side of coaching.

what part of coaching does he like ,im sure we would all like to know that.

[Sarnia Cherie]

1 minute ago, Roo1976 said:

what part of coaching does he like ,im sure we would all like to know that.

I think when he looks in the mirror he sees Guardiola staring back at him. Still short of a reliable, solid striker which is going to cause problems all season. Everton may be below us but they are scoring goals  He comes across as a stubborn so and so as his insistence on playing out from the back shows. We aren't good enough for that and rival teams know it. I hope SR won't leave it until we have one foot in the abyss to the Championship. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

I think when he looks in the mirror he sees Guardiola staring back at him. Still short of a reliable, solid striker which is going to cause problems all season. Everton may be below us but they are scoring goals  He comes across as a stubborn so and so as his insistence on playing out from the back shows. We aren't good enough for that and rival teams know it. I hope SR won't leave it until we have one foot in the abyss to the Championship. 

I know there is a lot of hysteria from playing out from the back, but in isolation that isn't what's causing the issues. Yesterdays goals weren't down to that. 

I actually noticed much better use of passing the ball from the back, the CB's were wider and providing better angles and Ramsdale wasn't afraid to go long if required - so that wasn't an issue yesterday. 

We will still play from the back, but we need to stop being so close to each other when we attempt it. That caused all of our problems at Brentford with a lack of passing options, that then caused us to keep going back, back and back and invite the press.

We just need to spread the CB's a bit wider, and a 4 at the back allows that. 3 just makes it too condensed.

[HarvSFC]

It still astounds me that someone who played their entire career in defence, at a high level as well doesn't know how to setup a defence as a coach.

 

[Pamplemousse]

Wasn't Colin Calderwood brought in as a coach to make us more secure at the back?

[Smirking_Saint]

Not that I want to particularly put myself through it, but i worked yesterday, is there any full match recordings anywhere 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, HarvSFC said:

It still astounds me that someone who played their entire career in defence, at a high level as well doesn't know how to setup a defence as a coach.

 

Played a lot in a Norwich defence. One that loved to pass it out to full backs. Which worked, when it had novelty and attacking full backs. Was dreadful when found out. Their midfield was never capable of shielding them either.

[derry]

I've seen several lower ranking Premier teams. Everton, Palace, Bournemouth, Forest amongst others. In comparison they are all more dynamic with a high tempo whereas we play far too slowly with a low tempo. That needs to change if we are to stand any chance of survival. In addition now they are here at least until January we have to seriously look at whether ABK and Onuachu can do anything for us whether as substitutes or starters. Nice to see Ross Stewart back playing. If RM is awake he could put out an interesting alternative team on Tuesday giving chances to Onuachu, ABK, Stewart, Fraser and Cornet.

[OttawaSaint]

Norwich and Scotland are not particularly well known for solid defences.

[Smirking_Saint]

14 minutes ago, derry said:

I've seen several lower ranking Premier teams. Everton, Palace, Bournemouth, Forest amongst others. In comparison they are all more dynamic with a high tempo whereas we play far too slowly with a low tempo. That needs to change if we are to stand any chance of survival. In addition now they are here at least until January we have to seriously look at whether ABK and Onuachu can do anything for us whether as substitutes or starters. Nice to see Ross Stewart back playing. If RM is awake he could put out an interesting alternative team on Tuesday giving chances to Onuachu, ABK, Stewart, Fraser and Cornet.

I think a lot of the dynamism that allowed us to create that late season momentum was built by moving to a quicker tempo like you’ve mentioned wanting here

I do wonder if a lot of the problems are caused by having no real focal point at the top of the park, only really Dibling is able to hold the ball, last year we had Armstrong abd Che which enabled us the time to go into transitions, Che was lacking in a lot of areas but his hold up play was great

[pimpin4rizeal]

On 09/09/2024 at 22:36, CB Fry said:

Please can you let us know when you are finally satisfied that Adam Armstrong has been given a "chance" to play in the Premier League.

50 plus Premier League appearances over two seasons (returning 2 whole goals each one) was not according to you "a chance".

Now this season three starts and zero goals.

How many more games does he have to play before you accept he has had "a chance"?

Does he need to start all 38 without fail?

Funny how Ben Brereton Diaz doesn't get the same "chance" before you start slagging him off. Why doesn't he get 50 games grace from you?

After being our most important player last year with 37 or whatever goal contributions I’m willing to give him a clean slate in the prem . At least with him his success has come under the manager.. differant styles of football can make a big differance, which could be why your boy BBD isn’t doing what he did at Sheffield utd ..

[Pamplemousse]

1 hour ago, derry said:

I've seen several lower ranking Premier teams. Everton, Palace, Bournemouth, Forest amongst others. In comparison they are all more dynamic with a high tempo whereas we play far too slowly with a low tempo. That needs to change if we are to stand any chance of survival. In addition now they are here at least until January we have to seriously look at whether ABK and Onuachu can do anything for us whether as substitutes or starters. Nice to see Ross Stewart back playing. If RM is awake he could put out an interesting alternative team on Tuesday giving chances to Onuachu, ABK, Stewart, Fraser and Cornet.

Yup agreed. There was some display of us being a lot quicker yesterday but fizzled out sadly.

[macca155]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

What is it about our defensive back line? Yesterday first Stephens and then THB dropped back several yards playing the opposition onside. This cannot be a coincidence after these players have been together for more than a season. 
 

I think it’s a consequence of our obsession with playing it out from the back at all times. We have lost the ability to keep a solid straight back line with all players in touch with each other.

I noticed that too, Bendarek was loitering at times as well. As a unit the defence have definitely lost their shape, and that's on top of all the other frailties.

[Charlie Wayman]

8 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Everton is in the League Cup. Beat Ipswich next Saturday and that's a start but it's two high probability relegation candidates playing each other. Our big games are against teams like Notts Forest, Brentford ....oh, oh...

I meant Ipswich & Bournemouth NOT Everton

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

After being our most important player last year with 37 or whatever goal contributions I’m willing to give him a clean slate in the prem . At least with him his success has come under the manager.. differant styles of football can make a big differance, which could be why your boy BBD isn’t doing what he did at Sheffield utd ..

"My boy" BBD? I think he's shit mate.

Keep crying about how Adam Armstrong never got a chance though. Just the 53 fucking games of it.

[Dark Munster]

8 hours ago, Football Special said:

For the doomsayers can you explain how this team will score enough goals to stand a chance? Even with a change of manager the players aren't good enough. 

I'd love to believe we can do it but honestly cannot see it, going to be a painful season unfortunately 

If the players aren’t good enough how come we more than matched Utd for the first 30 minutes? I’m not saying we have a great squad, but we do have one that can give it a good go at finishing above 18th. With a competent manager. 

[Teamsaint1]

2 hours ago, derry said:

I've seen several lower ranking Premier teams. Everton, Palace, Bournemouth, Forest amongst others. In comparison they are all more dynamic with a high tempo whereas we play far too slowly with a low tempo. That needs to change if we are to stand any chance of survival. In addition now they are here at least until January we have to seriously look at whether ABK and Onuachu can do anything for us whether as substitutes or starters. Nice to see Ross Stewart back playing. If RM is awake he could put out an interesting alternative team on Tuesday giving chances to Onuachu, ABK, Stewart, Fraser and Cornet.

The Bournemouth performance against Chelsea , despite defeat, definitely backs up your point. And we are going to have to work out ways of countering their dynamism, which was impressive. Their subs slipped straight into gear too. 

[Bakovnetski]

7 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

Ramsdale had a brilliant game. He made some outstanding saves.

Bet he wishes he hadn't been persuaded to sign for us now.

[Lighthouse]

20 minutes ago, Bakovnetski said:

Bet he wishes he hadn't been persuaded to sign for us now.

People keep saying this. Why? It's not as if he has to stay with us for the rest of his life.

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

People keep saying this. Why? It's not as if he has to stay with us for the rest of his life.

Exactly. If we go down he leaves for another Prem team, if we somehow stay up then he'd have contributed to that and possibly got himself an England recall in the process. 

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

If the players aren’t good enough how come we more than matched Utd for the first 30 minutes? I’m not saying we have a great squad, but we do have one that can give it a good go at finishing above 18th. With a competent manager. 

We played well, absolutely, excited about Dibling, but where will the goals come from? They won't. 

Think I'd be more confident with Che Adams and Stu Armstrong than some of our current options. Swapped Mara for Archer. Diaz isn't what we need. 

Martin might be new to this league but as a fan base we've seen plenty of it and can see where this squad is short compared to what we've had previously. Think most of us feared after play off final that this season would be like this. 

[bangkoksaint]

Just been described on Sky Sports as ‘pointless Southampton’……..TBF they have a point in more ways than one

[Bakovnetski]

24 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

People keep saying this. Why? It's not as if he has to stay with us for the rest of his life.

Sure. But it's not doing his England call up chances any favours.

[SaveloyMush]

4 minutes ago, Bakovnetski said:

Sure. But it's not doing his England call up chances any favours.

Playing for a shit team hasn't done Pickford any harm. I reckon Ramsdale will be in the England squad this season, as long as he keeps up the heroics for Southampton.

[hypochondriac]

19 minutes ago, Bakovnetski said:

Sure. But it's not doing his England call up chances any favours.

Not sure about that. He will have a brilliant highlights reel after this seaso

[Bakovnetski]

51 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure about that. He will have a brilliant highlights reel after this seaso

And playing in the championship next season...not a chance

[saintant]

There were encouraging signs yesterday especially up until the penalty miss. TD is clearly a massive talent and he must start games and build up his minutes so that eventually he can last 90 minutes because he is crucial to the team.  Fernandes and Big Les are two who can also play key parts if we are to make some sort of revival. Ross Stewart has finally got a few minutes under his belt and the hope must be that he can get stronger and stronger to provide a focal point through the centre.

The defence remains an utter shambles not least because they are clearly not drilled in how to maintain a disciplined line to trap opponents offside - a fairly basic requirement at any level.  The fact that we constantly have a stray defender behind the rest leaving opponents onside is a poor reflection on the coaching staff and something they need to drill into the players because quite frankly it's embarrassing to watch.

I believe we have a squad good enough to start winning games but am not convinced RM is the coach for the job.  Obviously we are only 4 games in but he continues to convince me that his very top level is in the Championship. I don't see him as capable of setting up the team in a formation that will get the best out of what he has to work with. Others will say give him more time but I don't see anything much changing because I just don't reckon he has the skill set to be a success in the Premier League but I accept that we're likely stuck with him.

[hypochondriac]

51 minutes ago, Bakovnetski said:

And playing in the championship next season...not a chance

Eh? He will obviously leave this summer if we go down.