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Saints 0-3 Man Utd - Match Thread

Wiggles31

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Lose the next two and I think he might be gone. 

The pressure on the Ipswich game is now immense. 

The club will not just trundle on and get relegated with Russell keeping his job to go again next year, not happening. If we keep losing and losing he will be gone well before Christmas, more like Bonfire Night.

We're not Luton Town having a lovely time in the Premier league for a season. We are supposed to be trying to actually stay up.

 These people binned Ralph and binned Nathan Jones (who some on this forum were making out was going to stay regardless of relegation, he didn't even get that far). RM will get sacked and he knows it.

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Saint NL

Saint NL

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

Brereton-Diaz, who looks like a pub player out there: a yard off the pace, heavy touch, can't beat anyone.

At least if he was in the middle he could be a target for Sugas crosses. When he's out wide he's offering nothing.

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HarvSFC

HarvSFC

Posted
Posted

Well, I was hopelessly wrong. So disappointing. If you lack talent, make up for it in working hard. I don't know what our instructions are, but we walk on the ball and we walk off the ball, giving the opposition the freedom of the pitch and all the time in the world. Get in their faces, force them into making mistakes. We didn't do that today. Only Dibling forced them into an error when he took on some players and won a penalty. If Martin goes, I really hope we go back to a pressing focussed manager. We were successful under Pochettino and for a large time under Hasenhuttl. Play it quick and keep the opposition on their toes, don't allow them to set up and try and play it through them. We didn't test Onana in that second half when we were 2-0 down at half time.

On individuals, we haven't had a good penalty taker since Lambert. It's so frustrating. Tadic was shit at them, Ings was shit at them and Ward-Prowse was shit at them. Just smash the ball on target and don't give the goalkeeper a chance, like Lambert did so many times. Goalkeepers are so handicapped these days with the not being able to come off their lines and we're still hopeless at them.

Brereton-Diaz, okay he may be a flop, or he definitely isn't a left-winger. He lacks any speed, both physically and in his mind, he was always behind the play and not technically gifted at all. He may have suited a Chris Wilder chaos team more than us. He flopped in Spain, he isn't particularly good for Chile, just a novelty because he's English and plays in the Premier League. He might not be good enough for us. 

Archer was also played out of the game by the United defence and was Mara-esque off the ball. Didn't chase down anything. I'd rather watch Shane Long, at least he tried and scored a few under Koeman.

Stephens' red card might not be the worst thing. In hindsight, his injury last season allowed Bednarek and THB to form a good partnership at the back after our awful start to the season. It was only when he was being brought back into the side, disrupting that partnership did the season tail off again. Now, Martin will be forced to play somebody else and if Bella-Kotchap is in the squad then we might as well make use of him.

Onto the positives. Dibling, obviously. A class above every outfield player in the team. If we don't get him signed up to a new deal it will be an unforgiveable error by the decision makers at the club.

Ramsdale. If McCarthy or Bazunu play in this match, it's a lot more embarrassing than 3-0.

But, yeah, not too many positives. I think Martin has enough credit in the bank from last season to at least take him to next week against Ipswich. But, if we lose again without breaking a sweat then serious questions need to be asked. Ipswich is now a must win.

 

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Ramsdale Fenandez sugawara  KWP dibling, Bella kotchep (if played) all good enough, the rest not so much 

No, a spine is through the middle (hence the name). Fernandes has played less than 90 PL minutes - how can you say he's good enough? 

Edited by Farmer Saint
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Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What £6m? What CB is that buying? 

We needed to upgrade 8 or 9 players. How does that work with FFP? 

What they've done is invested in players that are good enough to get us back up, as we needed too many players to allow us to compete this season with FFP. 

I meant using the money collectively, that 6m could have gone toward buying another player that could have done a job. We've done our usual of spunking money on quantity and not quality. 

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Football Special

Football Special

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The pressure on the Ipswich game is now immense. 

The club will not just trundle on and get relegated with Russell keeping his job to go again next year, not happening. If we keep losing and losing he will be gone well before Christmas, more like Bonfire Night.

We're not Luton Town having a lovely time in the Premier league for a season. We are supposed to be trying to actually stay up.

 These people binned Ralph and binned Nathan Jones (who some on this forum were making out was going to stay regardless of relegation, he didn't even get that far). RM will get sacked and he knows it.

Sack him the evening after the Saints Legends v Russell Martin XI game 

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OttawaSaint

OttawaSaint

Posted
Posted

So many things to be pissed off about, but the one thing that is troubling me is that we figuratively just downed tools at 0-2. 

You very rarely see team just flat out accept a loss and not at least come out fighting. 

Reeks of beard boy and his weak mentality.

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Edmonton Saint said:

https://x.com/alfiehouseecho/status/1834962902282899832?s=46

 

Amateur Hour.

 

24 minutes ago, Badger said:

Ridiculous. Rather like AA wanting to play up front so starting him there because of it. 
 

“Bagsy, I’m on pens boss “

Rm: “ He felt confident. I left it to the guys .. “

 

Exactly my thought. AA wanted to be in the middle and had put enough credit in the bank, as far as the manager was concerned to play there. Despite our system and past record screaming out to not do that.

If he comes out and bemoans a lack of taking our chances, then he has only to look at the moment in training when he left key moments in games up to whoever fancied it/ shouted loudest in training and some traditional view it has to be a number 9 taking them.

27 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

What's up with these triple and quadruple subs we've been making? It's too much change in one go. We lose cohesion every time we do it.

One sub is tactical tweaking, relieving tired legs, or realising that there's an opportnity to exploit.

4 is realising that the game is gone, that it's been a tactical failure, and that you might as well give some minutes to others so they can get into the side for the next failure.

 

 

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted

Who takes the penalties is a management decision. Armstrong wasn't on the pitch so somebody should have been designated. BBD 7 from 7 was a no brainer. Archer taking his first penalty was a no no. RM needs reaming, if he left it to the players it's scandalous. The TV showed Archer's face before he took the penalty. The tension was obvious, he looked like a rabbit in the headlights. As soon as I saw it, I thought he was going to freeze. He did, the penalty was awful, that was his first now make it his last.

The delay taking it got to him, not only were the MU players blatantly delaying it by arguing, Stuart Attwell was letting them. Sending a couple off would soon stop that. He waved enough yellow cards however he was right about that red. If I was Stephen's manager I'd have dropped him for that tackle. He missed, if he was going to get sent off he should have cleaned him out.

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Oldandtired

Oldandtired

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

 

 These people binned Ralph and binned Nathan Jones (who some on this forum were making out was going to stay regardless of relegation, he didn't even get that far). RM will get sacked and he knows it.

 

When it was too late. They have to make their minds up sooner rather than later, not wait till we’re ten points adrift at the bottom. 

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Forester

Forester

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

The pressure on the Ipswich game is now immense. 

The club will not just trundle on and get relegated with Russell keeping his job to go again next year, not happening. If we keep losing and losing he will be gone well before Christmas, more like Bonfire Night.

We're not Luton Town having a lovely time in the Premier league for a season. We are supposed to be trying to actually stay up.

 These people binned Ralph and binned Nathan Jones (who some on this forum were making out was going to stay regardless of relegation, he didn't even get that far). RM will get sacked and he knows it.

Agree with this,  I think back to back defeats against Ipswich and Bournemouth would see them pull the trigger, install caretaker for Arsenal and have that week and the international break to sort the change.

 

I hope this won’t happen, but agree this is not going to be something the owners will ignore if it continues 

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Midfield_General

Midfield_General

Posted
Posted (edited)

The psychological collapse was what was most concerning there. 

For the first 35 mins we played them off the park. The shape was loads better, we looked well up for it, we were first to everything, we were much more forward-looking and direct, and they couldn't handle Dibling at all. Lesley should have put that free header on target before the penalty was given, and it was criminal that no-one had taken up a position for a cut-back tap-in when KWP dribbled it all the way into their six yard box. 

But as soon as we missed the penalty you could visibly see the belief drain out of them. That led to the first goal and then we just collapsed and were lucky not to concede three in that fifteen minutes before half-time. 

Second half, there was just nothing there, the belief had completely gone. We've seen a thousand times, usually from teams we're playing against, how going 2-0 down is far from a sure defeat - pull one back and it's game on. But we didn't get anywhere near that because there was no belief that we could. We were beaten as soon as things went against us. Our heads went down the moment we missed the penalty and didn't come back up again for the whole match. 

Individual performances aside, it looked like the players are already starting to doubt that they belong in this league. That's really worrying this early in the season, although hardly surprising after four defeats in four matches. If they're looking that dejected already, Martin's got a huge job on his hands just picking them up and keeping confidence and belief in the team, because when that goes and heads start dropping every time you concede, you really are screwed. 

The Ipswich game is massive now. He has to find a way to scratch some sort of result out of that, however ugly it might need to be to get it. We need to find some street fighting mentality to get some points on the board however we can and then build from there. 

Ramsdale was good though. Thank god we've got him, because with any of our other keepers that was five or six today, easily. 

Edited by Midfield_General
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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Saints 0-3 Man Utd - Match Thread
beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Thought of another positive - Ramsdale being able to vary his goal kicks. 

Why did Martin not make any subs at half time? We effectively wasted 15 minutes doing nothing. 

We wasted the whole second half doing nothing to be fair 

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Nogginsfc

Nogginsfc

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, St Louis said:

We were really good for 35 mins, then miss the penalty and they score 2 completely against run of play at end of half (they’d not had a shot!) mental how a game can flip in a minute. TNT highlighted how poor Stephens was today, Stephens playing them onside for one and not marking De Ligt for the other. He then gets sent off for a stupid challenge which definitely killed us.
I thought we were a lot better than the scoreline and if we’d scored the penalty and gone in 1-0 up at HT, who knows? Good to have Stephens suspended now though for a few games.

Yes we were better up until the penalty, but that's completely not true that they hadn't had a shot and their goals were against the run of play.

Before the pen, they had the best chance of the game where Zirkzee had a free shot from around 8 yards out which was scuffed and well saved by Ramsdale.

The first 30 mins were much better, but let's not overhype it like we were creating endless chances. Was mainly some efforts from long range, bar Lesley wasting a free header. Always had the feel of a championship team in a big cup game and lots of energy but always going to end up how it did.

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Mr X

Mr X

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Micky said:

Think, or hope? 

Hope from me, I don't think he will be gone the club have tied their selves to him long-term all part of the genius bigger picture. 

I remember when Martin was appointed tte general consensus on here that was that we weren't impressed with his underwhelming CV but that he might have enough to scrape promotion if he got a very mediocre team to mid table but he'd get found out in the premier league... I am shocked that the club are so naive in thinking that he's suddenly going to adapt  when he's made it clear he isn't and has no plan B just to persist with plan A.  I can't see that sticking with him when we go down is going to help things either as a lot of the good will towards him will be long gone, thanks for everything Russell but a premier league manager you are not. 

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Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)

For me there are two options. Either back him further, but get a PL coaching set up around him to deal with the training and tactics in each part of the pitch eg Pulis 2 days a week to work with Ramsdale to drill the defence and midfield in the PL basics of marking/shape and in stopping crosses (an ongoing problem since Ronald that started under Puel and got worse). The first two goals today I’d be disappointed if Cheltenham Town in the fourth tier conceded without effort. It might be boring to drill 100 times during the week on the basics but we know as fans that is what’s needed right now and imperative that the owners are listening. The forwards need some similar specialist input. 

Also, the Pochettino style double training sessions need to return.

if that isn’t an option than better to move on now. It’s unlikely the season can be saved but more likely to get a capable manager to instil the top flight basics now than in November when relegation is all but confirmed.

Unfortunately the owners and management are a lot less experienced than the fans in what’s needed to survive let alone prosper in the PL. If Dragan will push Rasmus aside to listen to us, we might have some hope.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, OttawaSaint said:

So many things to be pissed off about, but the one thing that is troubling me is that we figuratively just downed tools at 0-2. 

You very rarely see team just flat out accept a loss and not at least come out fighting. 

Reeks of beard boy and his weak mentality.

"Alright lads, just go out there and keep the ball as well as you can..let's just use this second half as practice for moving the ball around..."

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Hope from me, I don't think he will be gone the club have tied their selves to him long-term all part of the genius bigger picture. 

I remember when Martin was appointed tte general consensus on here that was that we weren't impressed with his underwhelming CV but that he might have enough to scrape promotion if he got a very mediocre team to mid table but he'd get found out in the premier league... I am shocked that the club are so naive in thinking that he's suddenly going to adapt  when he's made it clear he isn't and has no plan B just to persist with plan A.  I can't see that sticking with him when we go down is going to help things either as a lot of the good will towards him will be long gone, thanks for everything Russell but a premier league manager you are not. 

It's worse than that, he's outright stated he will refuse to use a plan B even if his plan A is getting us beaten. 

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted

TBH our games so far have gone the way I expected. There're very, very few players in our squad who I'd hang my hat on being PL quality and one of the was THB. I like the look of Suga, whilst Fernandes and Dibling look promising but are a long way from being proven. KWP and Ramsdale are solid but that's about it.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HarvSFC said:

we haven't had a good penalty taker since Lambert. It's so frustrating. Tadic was shit at them, Ings was shit at them and Ward-Prowse was shit at them

JWP has taken 26 penalties in his professional career and scored with 20 of them, i.e. a 77% success rate.

Ings has taken 16 and scored 13, an 81% success rate...

Tadic? Taken 101, scored 82; also 81%

Obviously not as good as Rickie, but slightly better than "shit" I would venture... 

(For comparison, Ronaldo's success rate is 84% and Messi's 78%)

Edited by trousers
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sambosa75

sambosa75

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, OttawaSaint said:

Forest giving it a really good go at Anfield, must be nice...

Remember when the volume of signings they made when getting promoted appeared to be desperate and comical?  Just goes to show the re-build job required to bridge the gap between Champo and Prem.

 

Edited by sambosa75
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OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

Posted
Posted

I've seen us play a lot worse than that. The team selection was positively greeted by most on this site and with good reason. We started off well and for over 1/3rd of the game we were competitive. Suguwara and Dibling have a good rapport, Downes is tenacious, Ramsdale was allowed to do what he wanted to do with the ball and KWP was ok.

Yes we've lost four games in a row but I'm still pretty upbeat. The lack of a striker is our biggest concern but let's the comments in a month's time.

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danjosaint

danjosaint

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

Remember when the volume of signings they made when promoted was comical?  Just goes to show the re-build job required to bridge the gap between Champo and Prem.

 

Oh and a experienced manager 

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted

I got told I was talking nonsense on here when I suggested before the season started that Martin would prefer to lose playing perfectly his way than win but with the players deviating from the style he wants. The more he makes the kind of comments he has today, the more plausible that view becomes. 

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