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Saints 0-3 Man Utd - Match Thread

Wiggles31

By Wiggles31
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egg

egg

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 11/09/2024 at 18:05, Whitey Grandad said:

The pitch is the same size for everybody. 

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Yes, but the quality of players and managers are not the same for every team. What works for Liverpool will not work for us. 

Edited by egg
SaintNewForest

SaintNewForest

Posted
Posted
  On 11/09/2024 at 19:35, 6ft8saint said:

I want what you've been drinking.... Just cause the others have been shit doesn't make him good. He just hasn't been as shit. He has been the main reason for most of the goals conceded this season. Got a goal offsided by interfering. I think they need some to sell popcorn in the Itchen stand so couldn't He do that? Or failing that could he do something with Sammy and Mary. He's a clown.

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How to tell me you don't watch football ...

  • Like 1
saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
  On 11/09/2024 at 17:23, egg said:

There's not a lot of difference between a 4231 and a 433 where 2 men sit deeper and one midfielder plays more attacking. Both systems have 2 men wide and 1 through the middle. Either or for me. 

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4231 gives you the double pivot which can both protect the back four and support the three ahead of them. More flexible when played correctly.

lhammondo

lhammondo

Posted
Posted
  On 10/09/2024 at 21:51, trousers said:

Looks like it was tactical... BBD not a happy bunny...

(The Chilean fans don't appear too impressed either)

 

Screenshot_20240910-225054-888.png

20240910_225411.jpg

Screenshot_20240910-225543-747.png

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The new Chile coach is clearly not a fan; i can't imagine why when his sole contribution in 3 games is getting an opposing player sent off.

6ft8saint

6ft8saint

Posted
Posted
  On 11/09/2024 at 20:41, SaintNewForest said:

How to tell me you don't watch football ...

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Has everyone forgotten how appalling he was last season and I still haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise this season. Just cause I question the club captain you question I don't watch football???? How ridiculous. 

Tell me what other team in the Premier league would have jack stephens in their starting 11.

1. Touching the goal ward shot at Newcastle - offside might have been a goal well never know now

2. Pass back 1 to mcarthy caused problems they scored

3. Crashing into Bednarek.  Funnily they scored

4. I'm sure he had some involvement in the throwin goal.

Just feel imo that he takes up a position where we could have an attacking outlet instead.

 

Which red and white faithful will tell me next I can't have an opinion????

 

  • Like 4
Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
  On 11/09/2024 at 22:53, 6ft8saint said:

Has everyone forgotten how appalling he was last season and I still haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise this season. Just cause I question the club captain you question I don't watch football???? How ridiculous. 

Tell me what other team in the Premier league would have jack stephens in their starting 11.

1. Touching the goal ward shot at Newcastle - offside might have been a goal well never know now

2. Pass back 1 to mcarthy caused problems they scored

3. Crashing into Bednarek.  Funnily they scored

4. I'm sure he had some involvement in the throwin goal.

Just feel imo that he takes up a position where we could have an attacking outlet instead.

 

Which red and white faithful will tell me next I can't have an opinion????

 

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You haven’t mentioned the hospital pass back to THB.

  • Like 1
notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 12/09/2024 at 12:58, steve green said:

 

I thought you were joking (something discouraged in this thread I understand) but bugger me you're right.

 

This weeks comments on saintsweb would've given him a confidence boost anyway.

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The positivity on here is relentless, no issues with the team culture. All posters are so brave, so brave, they know it’s not easy and there will be bumps on the road but this is a forum I think most other forum posters would want to be a part of. 
 

Up the fucking Saints!!!

Edited by notnowcato
Dr Who?

Dr Who?

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 12:58, steve green said:

 

I thought you were joking (something discouraged in this thread I understand) but bugger me you're right.

 

This weeks comments on saintsweb would've given him a confidence boost anyway.

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I don’t think any of the players would know about this forum, let alone read it. 

franniesTache

franniesTache

Posted
Posted

We will start ok, pass the ball around a lot but not really threaten their goal, sometime late in the first half we'll pass the ball to one of their strikers who will score, we will then continue to pass the ball around a lot in completely inconsequential areas of the pitch before they get their second and third in quick succession.

The whole game our strikers will be too far apart so there will be absolutely no direct threat, and we'll finish the game with 70% possession, zero shots on goal and 3-0 down.

Martin will come out afterwards and say that he learned a lot from the game, thought we played some great football and that he believes in his system.

  • Haha 3
saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 13:43, NewYorkSaint said:

Based on Russell's comments today - implying that it's possible loyalty has contributed to non perfect decisions -  I'm guessing we'll see a team w a new captain. Cd be wrong.

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Is he admitting he does not pick the strongest team available but instead shoe-horns in those he is loyal to? If so hopefully he's learning from his mistakes.

  • Like 2
Midfield_General

Midfield_General

Posted
Posted

Key points from RM's press conference ahead of Man Utd: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c30308dly86o

Summary: 

  • The manager said "changes will be made" to the side for the game against Manchester United, adding: "After three defeats, there inevitably will be changes. How many, you'll have to wait and see and who. It's such a difficult position because I feel fiercely loyal to players who have got us into the Premier League so I have to balance that loyalty from what they did last season to what some of them are actually doing now and the place they are in right now."

  • The Saints boss feels his side "have learnt a lot in the first few games" and that they are "really close to being who we want to be and what we want to be".

  • On the international break: "I've enjoyed the break in terms of seeing what we really need to focus on."

  • Ben Brereton Diaz was substituted 35 minutes into Chile’s 2-1 loss against Bolivia in their 2026 World Cup qualifier but Martin said it is "not an injury so I guess the coach has his own reasons".

  • On the scrutiny he has faced in recent weeks: "It doesn't overwhelm me one bit, it's just part of the job. It's the same last season, we had a period at the start where we had a really tough time and then people can say what they want with very little recourse and will judge us based on a highlights reel of eight minutes so I treat it all the same. There were people that called me a terrible appointment for the club and said they need to make a change after losing four games [last season]. There will be the same people doing that now after three games, three defeats, so I treat it all the same."

  • All players have come back injury-free which is "all you can ever ask for as a manager after an international break".

  • Martin said the club didn't plan to have such a big squad, stating: "Some of the outgoings didn't come off and didn't quite go to plan so leaving a lot of good players out of the squad isn't easy but it's up to us to manage that."

  • Like 3
VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 14:15, Midfield_General said:

 

  • On the scrutiny he has faced in recent weeks: "It doesn't overwhelm me one bit, it's just part of the job. It's the same last season, we had a period at the start where we had a really tough time and then people can say what they want with very little recourse and will judge us based on a highlights reel of eight minutes so I treat it all the same. There were people that called me a terrible appointment for the club and said they need to make a change after losing four games [last season]. There will be the same people doing that now after three games, three defeats, so I treat it all the same."

  •  

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To whoever it was that doubts the staff know about or look at this forum, think this belies your belief. Clearly Martin knows the Forum well. 😉

Challenger

Challenger

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 13:41, franniesTache said:

We will start ok, pass the ball around a lot but not really threaten their goal, sometime late in the first half we'll pass the ball to one of their strikers who will score, we will then continue to pass the ball around a lot in completely inconsequential areas of the pitch before they get their second and third in quick succession.

The whole game our strikers will be too far apart so there will be absolutely no direct threat, and we'll finish the game with 70% possession, zero shots on goal and 3-0 down.

Martin will come out afterwards and say that he learned a lot from the game, thought we played some great football and that he believes in his system.

Expand  

Can't see it playing out too different to this.

AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 13:41, franniesTache said:

We will start ok, pass the ball around a lot but not really threaten their goal, sometime late in the first half we'll pass the ball to one of their strikers who will score, we will then continue to pass the ball around a lot in completely inconsequential areas of the pitch before they get their second and third in quick succession.

The whole game our strikers will be too far apart so there will be absolutely no direct threat, and we'll finish the game with 70% possession, zero shots on goal and 3-0 down.

Martin will come out afterwards and say that he learned a lot from the game, thought we played some great football and that he believes in his system.

Expand  

Nutshell

Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 13:56, saintant said:

Is he admitting he does not pick the strongest team available but instead shoe-horns in those he is loyal to? If so hopefully he's learning from his mistakes.

Expand  

I'm reading it as loyal to the players he felt worked best in his system, to get us promotion. He's tried them at the start, but performances mean changes. To get results and from seeing others in training.

He'll be torn between thinking he's close with the current team, and seeing others deserving opportunities.

He has started players he feels are immediate upgrades, such as Ramsdale. Others might be less clear cut initially, but look to be more effective, like Fernandes.

Some of the issues are old ones. Stephens would often negate Will's influence. Will would be asked to a different role less effectively. AA might want to be central, but is better wider for us. Although not with him wide and no one in the middle.

  • Like 1
Chewy

Chewy

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 13:43, NewYorkSaint said:

Based on Russell's comments today - implying that it's possible loyalty has contributed to non perfect decisions -  I'm guessing we'll see a team w a new captain. Cd be wrong.

Expand  

His comments apply to any of KWP, THB, Bednarek, Stephens, Will, Aribo and ArmA so no guarantee it’ll be Jack he has in mind.

I suspect the midfield two are most at risk (for Fernandes and Lesley), and possibly ArmA too.

And if we change formation we’ll lose a cb. Though to be fair RMs comment about where players are at “right now” could just as well be aimed at THB as Jack. We all know who is potentially a far superior player, but he’s not started the season well.

I think there’s at least three changes there with a move to 433, and possibly a 4th with ArmA.

Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 15:46, Chewy said:

His comments apply to any of KWP, THB, Bednarek, Stephens, Will, Aribo and ArmA so no guarantee it’ll be Jack he has in mind.

I suspect the midfield two are most at risk (for Fernandes and Lesley), and possibly ArmA too.

And if we change formation we’ll lose a cb. Though to be fair RMs comment about where players are at “right now” could just as well be aimed at THB as Jack. We all know who is potentially a far superior player, but he’s not started the season well.

I think there’s at least three changes there with a move to 433, and possibly a 4th with ArmA.

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Am guessing it will THB that gets dropped if we change formation. Much easier to drop him than Stephens.

  • Like 2
  • Sad 2
VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 15:46, Chewy said:

His comments apply to any of KWP, THB, Bednarek, Stephens, Will, Aribo and ArmA so no guarantee it’ll be Jack he has in mind.

 

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You forgot Downes, though I seriously doubt he would be dropped.

Seriously though it would be astonishing if changes were not made for this weekend, for our last game some new players were not even available (Fraser/Cornet), others had only been with Saints for a matter of days or a week or so, there was never likely to be major changes until after the Brentford game. Ramsdale was an exception and was not really any risk over playing AM. Otherwise only Suga and Diaz had really been integrated into the squad longish term. It would be shocking if we brought in Big Les, Fernandes, Taylor and Archer, even Lallana if we weren't going to make serious use of them. Then there is the loan/injury returnees to consider, ABK, Larios, Stewart? maybe even TP though I doubt it. No idea by the way why we signed Wood. We also have to consider Dibling, who already looks to me like he should be a nailed on starter. I expect this team to look very different to the team that came 4th in the Championship last season within the next 2-3 games, even more so if you consider THB and FD were not our players last season.  

  • Like 1
Midfield_General

Midfield_General

Posted
Posted (edited)

Martin's right when he says we have a bloated squad now. When everyone is fit and available for selection, there are going to be plenty who don't even get amongst the 9 subs, let alone the starting XI. 

For example*, this weekend we could put out a first XI of: Ramsdale; KWP; Bednarek; THB; Sugawara; Downes; Fernandes; Lesley; BBD; Archer; Cornet

With a subs bench of: Macca; Stephens; Smallbone; Aribo; Lallana; Fraser; SAA; Dibling; Armstrong

Which would leave no place at all in the squad for Taylor, ABK, Bree, Stewart (now apparently fit), Larios, Edwards, Wood or Manning, plus Onuachu and Sulemana (when fit again) who we know they're trying to shift out. Most of those you could argue we won't miss, but it seems a bit harsh on Taylor for example, and who drops out of that squad to fit Stewart in? (which presumably is the plan, given how long we've spent getting him ready). I really hope it's not SAA who has to step back down. 

(* It's just an example, I'm not saying this will be the formation, team or bench) 

Edited by Midfield_General
  • Like 1
Football Special

Football Special

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 13:41, franniesTache said:

We will start ok, pass the ball around a lot but not really threaten their goal, sometime late in the first half we'll pass the ball to one of their strikers who will score, we will then continue to pass the ball around a lot in completely inconsequential areas of the pitch before they get their second and third in quick succession.

The whole game our strikers will be too far apart so there will be absolutely no direct threat, and we'll finish the game with 70% possession, zero shots on goal and 3-0 down.

Martin will come out afterwards and say that he learned a lot from the game, thought we played some great football and that he believes in his system.

Expand  

Think you're probably right unfortunately, unless Ross Stewart comes in so fired up with a point to prove and scores a screamer and we somehow battle out for a 1-0 win, Russ turns into Ralph sobbing on the touchline at the end. 

 

Football Special

Football Special

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 17:32, Midfield_General said:

Martin's right when he says we have a bloated squad now. When everyone is fit and available for selection, there are going to be plenty who don't even get amongst the 9 subs, let alone the starting XI. 

For example*, this weekend we could put out a first XI of: Ramsdale; KWP; Bednarek; THB; Sugawara; Downes; Fernandes; Lesley; BBD; Archer; Cornet

With a subs bench of: Macca; Stephens; Smallbone; Aribo; Lallana; Fraser; SAA; Dibling; Armstrong

Which would leave no place at all in the squad for Taylor, ABK, Bree, Stewart (now apparently fit), Larios, Edwards, Wood or Manning, plus Onuachu and Sulemana (when fit again) who we know they're trying to shift out. Most of those you could argue we won't miss, but it seems a bit harsh on Taylor for example, and who drops out of that squad to fit Stewart in? (which presumably is the plan, given how long we've spent getting him ready). I really hope it's not SAA who has to step back down. 

(* It's just an example, I'm not saying this will be the formation, team or bench) 

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At least we should be able to put out a strong side at Everton on Tuesday night 

Turkish window closes tomorrow? Surely Onuacho goes by then 

Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 17:32, Midfield_General said:

Martin's right when he says we have a bloated squad now. When everyone is fit and available for selection, there are going to be plenty who don't even get amongst the 9 subs, let alone the starting XI. 

For example*, this weekend we could put out a first XI of: Ramsdale; KWP; Bednarek; THB; Sugawara; Downes; Fernandes; Lesley; BBD; Archer; Cornet

With a subs bench of: Macca; Stephens; Smallbone; Aribo; Lallana; Fraser; SAA; Dibling; Armstrong

Which would leave no place at all in the squad for Taylor, ABK, Bree, Stewart (now apparently fit), Larios, Edwards, Wood or Manning, plus Onuachu and Sulemana (when fit again) who we know they're trying to shift out. Most of those you could argue we won't miss, but it seems a bit harsh on Taylor for example, and who drops out of that squad to fit Stewart in? (which presumably is the plan, given how long we've spent getting him ready). I really hope it's not SAA who has to step back down. 

(* It's just an example, I'm not saying this will be the formation, team or bench) 

Expand  

When KWP stayed, I thought that Bree/Manning would be loaned out. Larios coming back from injury might have kept him here, but I'd not have been surprised for him to be loaned either. Leaving a group of KWP, Sugawara, Manning/Bree, Taylor and Stephens (in a pinch).

Like Edozie, the arrival of Cornet and Fraser limits SAA minutes. When he can clearly push on.

The bloated squad was a hurdle Martin was glad to see the back off last season. Shame we're stuck with it for this one, unless a few move on at the end of the window.

macca155

macca155

Posted
Posted
  On 11/09/2024 at 22:53, 6ft8saint said:

Has everyone forgotten how appalling he was last season and I still haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise this season. Just cause I question the club captain you question I don't watch football???? How ridiculous. 

Tell me what other team in the Premier league would have jack stephens in their starting 11.

1. Touching the goal ward shot at Newcastle - offside might have been a goal well never know now

2. Pass back 1 to mcarthy caused problems they scored

3. Crashing into Bednarek.  Funnily they scored

4. I'm sure he had some involvement in the throwin goal.

Just feel imo that he takes up a position where we could have an attacking outlet instead.

 

Which red and white faithful will tell me next I can't have an opinion????

 

Expand  

You can have an opinion but it is fundamentally wrong. Jack at the moment is our most consistent defender (I am aware the bar is low). He is the one blocking, covering and doing the basics of defending. His passing and runs forward have at least created some chances, all of whom wasted. Is he Van Dyke, no of course not, has he made some errors .... a few yes, but the other defenders have made just as many and they don't bring anywhere near as much to the game in comparison. THB has had a rough time in the opening games, he'll survive and I'm sure will be a star for us, but he needs the consistency of Stephens and Bendarek alongside him at the moment.

He probably isn't our future if the team beds in as a Premier League team, but he certainly isn't the main problem at the moment, frankly we need his experience as one of the few who has Premier League experience. The same goes for Ryan Frazer, he may not be as dynamic as Edosie and is really a solid Championship player but equally brings the sort of experience the team needs.

  • Like 7
Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 18:13, macca155 said:

You can have an opinion but it is fundamentally wrong. Jack at the moment is our most consistent defender (I am aware the bar is low). He is the one blocking, covering and doing the basics of defending. His passing and runs forward have at least created some chances, all of whom wasted. Is he Van Dyke, no of course not, has he made some errors .... a few yes, but the other defenders have made just as many and they don't bring anywhere near as much to the game in comparison. THB has had a rough time in the opening games, he'll survive and I'm sure will be a star for us, but he needs the consistency of Stephens and Bendarek alongside him at the moment.

He probably isn't our future if the team beds in as a Premier League team, but he certainly isn't the main problem at the moment, frankly we need his experience as one of the few who has Premier League experience. The same goes for Ryan Frazer, he may not be as dynamic as Edosie and is really a solid Championship player but equally brings the sort of experience the team needs.

Expand  

And Stephens can also pinch the ball off of Bruno.

Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 18:13, macca155 said:

You can have an opinion but it is fundamentally wrong. Jack at the moment is our most consistent defender (I am aware the bar is low). He is the one blocking, covering and doing the basics of defending. His passing and runs forward have at least created some chances, all of whom wasted. Is he Van Dyke, no of course not, has he made some errors .... a few yes, but the other defenders have made just as many and they don't bring anywhere near as much to the game in comparison. THB has had a rough time in the opening games, he'll survive and I'm sure will be a star for us, but he needs the consistency of Stephens and Bendarek alongside him at the moment.

He probably isn't our future if the team beds in as a Premier League team, but he certainly isn't the main problem at the moment, frankly we need his experience as one of the few who has Premier League experience. The same goes for Ryan Frazer, he may not be as dynamic as Edosie and is really a solid Championship player but equally brings the sort of experience the team needs.

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Most consistently poor.

Stephens is the root of our problems.

washsaint

washsaint

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 20:47, Whitey Grandad said:

Most consistently poor.

Stephens is the root of our problems.

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What utter nonsense!  So Stephens is at fault for the strikers not hitting the target?  He's responsible for a weak midfield or players losing their man?

Talk about scapegoating.......

Should he be in the side, that's a different question but to blame him for all our problems is beyond ridiculous.

  • Like 6
Hayling Saint

Hayling Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 22:08, washsaint said:

What utter nonsense!  So Stephens is at fault for the strikers not hitting the target?  He's responsible for a weak midfield or players losing their man?

Talk about scapegoating.......

Should he be in the side, that's a different question but to blame him for all our problems is beyond ridiculous.

Expand  

Totally agree with this.

  • Like 2
Greedyfly

Greedyfly

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 22:08, washsaint said:

What utter nonsense!  So Stephens is at fault for the strikers not hitting the target?  He's responsible for a weak midfield or players losing their man?

Talk about scapegoating.......

Should he be in the side, that's a different question but to blame him for all our problems is beyond ridiculous.

Expand  

Agreed.

 

Does not stop him being a toss defender who's playing at a level way above his pay grade, however.  He was awful last time we were in the Prem, and he's no good now.  I don't think Bednarek is all that either, and the jury is out on THB.

  • Like 1
Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
  On 12/09/2024 at 22:08, washsaint said:

What utter nonsense!  So Stephens is at fault for the strikers not hitting the target?  He's responsible for a weak midfield or players losing their man?

Talk about scapegoating.......

Should he be in the side, that's a different question but to blame him for all our problems is beyond ridiculous.

Expand  

He’s at fault for the misshapen defence and the distorted midfield and our persistent loss of shape. He’s undisciplined. If you want evidence of that just watch the way that he runs forward and gets in Bednarek’s way at Brentford. You very rarely see a mix up like that at top level football. He plays his colleagues into trouble. 

He’s a liability.

  • Like 1

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