Russell Martin v Nathan Jones

[Nordic Saint]

35 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Bednarek, Stephens, Smallbone, Aribo, Arma and BBD are nothing other than Championship players. 
 

KWP who isn’t playing in his preferred position. 

 

We're recruiting all the right players, but not necessarily in the right positions.

Arguably our 2 best players now, KWP and Sugawara, are both right wing-backs so one of them is forced to play out of position, which means that Charlie Taylor, one of the most reliable Premier League defenders we signed this summer, can't get into a team lacking Premier League quality players in almost every other position.
 

Did nobody ever notice what was happening and say, "Wait. Hang on a minute..."?

Edited September 2 by Nordic Saint

[pingpong]

Nathan jones presided over our defeat to Nottingham forest, which was the single most embarrassing and inept performance by any football team in any league throughout the eternity of time, past, present and future.

It made me ashamed to be a human being, let alone a saints fan.

Edited September 2 by pingpong

[Lord Duckhunter]

[Dman]

16 minutes ago, pingpong said:

Nathan jones presided over our defeat to Nottingham forest, which was the single most embarrassing and inept performance by any football team in any league throughout the eternity of time, past, present and future.

It made me ashamed to be a human being, let alone a saints fan.

Given we're a side that has lost 9-0 in 2 consecutive seasons, that's clearly a load of bias nonsense. 

I also wouldn't at all be surprised if we shipped 9 or more again this season. 

[saintant]

19 hours ago, RedArmy said:

I think the performances and tactics have been woeful but you’d struggle to find a manager in world football that would keep this squad up. It’s a championship squad with no goal threat. 

This squad has yet to be used in a competent way so I doubt anybody knows how good or bad they are right now or whether they are capable of scoring goals. My view is that a different manager would have them playing with less glaring mistakes, more cohesion and shape and ultimately, more goals and points on the board. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Nordic Saint said:

 

We're recruiting all the right players, but not necessarily in the right positions.

Arguably our 2 best players now, KWP and Sugawara, are both right wing-backs so one of them is forced to play out of position, which means that Charlie Taylor, one of the most reliable Premier League defenders we signed this summer, can't get into a team lacking Premier League quality players in almost every other position.
 

Did nobody ever notice what was happening and say, "Wait. Hang on a minute..."?

In the club's defence I'm guessing they moved early to get Sugawara and the thinking behind it was they fully expected KWP to leave. 

[RedArmy]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

This squad has yet to be used in a competent way so I doubt anybody knows how good or bad they are right now or whether they are capable of scoring goals. My view is that a different manager would have them playing with less glaring mistakes, more cohesion and shape and ultimately, more goals and points on the board. 

This isn’t 2012 with a squad full of very obvious talent but a few players letting them down along with a manager that wasn’t quite ready and possibly feeling the effects of a chairman that wanted him out.  
That was an easy fix.  
 

This is a clusterfuck of a squad devoid of the talent required to compete at this level, a manager that’s out of his depth and suicidal tactics to boot. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

This is a clusterfuck of a squad devoid of the talent required to compete at this level, 

We’ve got one of the countries best goal keepers. 3 out of the 5 at the back have played the majority of their career in the top flight. The other 2 are, an international full back who already looks the part,  & a very promising young centre half. Downes looks premier league quality & from early glimpses a couple of the new signings look promising. I reckon a competent manager would have us on at least 2 points, not world beating but something to work on. This blokes sucked the positivity out of promotion already, mainly because of his fuck witted tactics.  

[Holmes_and_Watson]

8 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

This is a clusterfuck of a squad devoid of the talent required to compete at this level, a manager that’s out of his depth and suicidal tactics to boot. 

And there's some bad things too. 🙂

This post is a test of The Gallows Humour posting system. For preparedness ahead of a long season.

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, pingpong said:

Nathan jones presided over our defeat to Nottingham forest, which was the single most embarrassing and inept performance by any football team in any league throughout the eternity of time, past, present and future.

It made me ashamed to be a human being, let alone a saints fan.

It was very poor but you weren’t old enough from the sounds of it to remember the Branfoot years. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

It was very poor but you weren’t old enough from the sounds of it to remember the Branfoot years. 

The Branfoot Years: The Netflix counter to all those aspirational club following shows. Like watching a marathon session of kitchen sink dramas, watch the life being sucked out of a club. B&W (90 mins, but will seem like years)

"The switch to a Yorkshire mining town, for extra grimness, is to be applauded." - The Guardian

"Still more exciting football, than under Puel."- The Times.

[RedArmy]

11 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 3 out of the 5 at the back have played the majority of their career in the top flight.

Djimi Traore won the champions league, what’s your point? It doesn’t suddenly make Bednarek or Stephens good enough for this league. 
 

If they were good enough we wouldn’t be playing 5 at the back in the first place. 

 

 

[Dman]

3 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Djimi Traore won the champions league, what’s your point? It doesn’t suddenly make Bednarek or Stephens good enough for this league. 
 

If they were good enough we wouldn’t be playing 5 at the back in the first place. 

 

 

Both have way out performed THB this season. Perhaps there is / was a reason why Burnely didn't sign him last season? 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Dman said:

Both have way out performed THB this season. Perhaps there is / was a reason why Burnely didn't sign him last season? 

I'm not sure you can make that judgement after three games when he hasn't played in a 4.

[RedArmy]

6 minutes ago, Dman said:

Both have way out performed THB this season. Perhaps there is / was a reason why Burnely didn't sign him last season? 

Hard to know with Burnley whether it was a financial or football decision. You’d expect Kompany to know whether he’s good enough for this level though. 
 

I think he’ll be a top CB but he needs to adjust to the speed of the PL quickly.
 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

9 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Djimi Traore won the champions league, what’s your point? It doesn’t suddenly make Bednarek or Stephens good enough for this league. 
 

If they were good enough we wouldn’t be playing 5 at the back in the first place. 

 

 

Puel made us tight defensively with Stephens & Yoshida as centre halves, so I refuse to believe  we couldn’t tighten up. I’d imagine the reason he wants to play 3 centre halves as it releases our full backs to get further forward. In a properly set up defensive unit, with instructions to just defend and cut out the Beckenbauer impressions, we’d have a couple of points on the board, no bother. 

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, Dman said:

Both have way out performed THB this season. Perhaps there is / was a reason why Burnely didn't sign him last season? 

From what I've observed of THB he is far happier in a back 4 with two centre backs. As soon as we play a five with an added centre back he seems to be less sure of his responsibilities. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Personally I like 3 central defenders, but prefer what Terry Venables did sometimes, play a strong full back as the wide centre half. Maybe Charlie Taylor could play on the left of a 3. Don’t know if he ever played centre half previously but he has the build. Bree probably not good enough the other side, but again he’s an old fashioned looking full back who could play as the wide man of a 3. The problem with 3 pure centre halves is they  get run down the sides, and they get in each other’s way. You need players who can play full back and centre half, in the wide positions, with a centre half centrally. Imo. 

[Gloucester Saint]

11 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Personally I like 3 central defenders, but prefer what Terry Venables did sometimes, play a strong full back as the wide centre half. Maybe Charlie Taylor could play on the left of a 3. Don’t know if he ever played centre half previously but he has the build. Bree probably not good enough the other side, but again he’s an old fashioned looking full back who could play as the wide man of a 3. The problem with 3 pure centre halves is they  get run down the sides, and they get in each other’s way. You need players who can play full back and centre half, in the wide positions, with a centre half centrally. Imo. 

I’m fairly certain Bertrand played at times in that role for Ronald in his second season and earlier in Ralph’s against some of the top sides.

[saintant]

15 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Personally I like 3 central defenders, but prefer what Terry Venables did sometimes, play a strong full back as the wide centre half. Maybe Charlie Taylor could play on the left of a 3. Don’t know if he ever played centre half previously but he has the build. Bree probably not good enough the other side, but again he’s an old fashioned looking full back who could play as the wide man of a 3. The problem with 3 pure centre halves is they  get run down the sides, and they get in each other’s way. You need players who can play full back and centre half, in the wide positions, with a centre half centrally. Imo. 

Yeah, Charlie Taylor has played centre half so could probably do the job you describe.

[franniesTache]

I don't think the OP's point is as stupid as some people make it. Obviously time will tell but the initial sense is that Martin is as out of his depth at this level as Jones was. His refusal to adapt his style when it's clearly suicidal at the top level (unless you have the backing of an oil nation) screams of a manager way out of his depth. Also Jones was accused of arrogance but Martin seems equally as arrogant to me.

The only difference is Martin is deemed to be great by our posh/middle class fans who think there's a "right" way to play football, when the truth is the only right way to play football is to win games.

I'd have no issue with Saints playing long ball, shit house football, where the players dived to win penalties and we time wasted from the first minute, if it meant we won every game 1-0. This idea that there's some kind of morally better thing about passing a lot is such pretentious, stuck up bollocks.

[bangkoksaint]

All the top sides go long at times when it’s necessary and that’s what we simply don’t seem willing to do. Maybe that, along with a personnel change, will change after the international break.

[AlexLaw76]

Nathan Jones still bossing this head-2-head...

Could be playing him next season. Charlton are 2nd in League 1

[aintforever]

On 03/09/2024 at 14:14, franniesTache said:

I don't think the OP's point is as stupid as some people make it. Obviously time will tell but the initial sense is that Martin is as out of his depth at this level as Jones was. His refusal to adapt his style when it's clearly suicidal at the top level (unless you have the backing of an oil nation) screams of a manager way out of his depth. Also Jones was accused of arrogance but Martin seems equally as arrogant to me.

The only difference is Martin is deemed to be great by our posh/middle class fans who think there's a "right" way to play football, when the truth is the only right way to play football is to win games.

I'd have no issue with Saints playing long ball, shit house football, where the players dived to win penalties and we time wasted from the first minute, if it meant we won every game 1-0. This idea that there's some kind of morally better thing about passing a lot is such pretentious, stuck up bollocks.

What a load of bollocks, the idea that the style of football you prefer is linked to class is one of the most bizarre things I have ever read on here, and that is saying something.

Martin got us promoted at the first attempt so the fans have rightly cut him some slack, he is probably out of his depth but in my opinion deserves to at least be given a chance to prove himself. Jones was a complete disaster from day one, he took a side that had stayed up comfortably for seasons and fucked it.

[Badger]

20 minutes ago, aintforever said:

What a load of bollocks, the idea that the style of football you prefer is linked to class is one of the most bizarre things I have ever read on here, and that is saying something.

Martin got us promoted at the first attempt so the fans have rightly cut him some slack, he is probably out of his depth but in my opinion deserves to at least be given a chance to prove himself. Jones was a complete disaster from day one, he took a side that had stayed up comfortably for seasons and fucked it.

Your last comment re Jones isn’t entirely accurate. Yes, things got worse under him but he took over a squad in decline, low on confidence, and had been for eighteen months. There’s  a reason there was a vacancy for him to fill. 
 

Of course things went downhill even more rapidly after he arrived, but he alone didn’t bring about the collapse of a comfortably mid-table side. 

[aintforever]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Your last comment re Jones isn’t entirely accurate. Yes, things got worse under him but he took over a squad in decline, low on confidence, and had been for eighteen months. There’s  a reason there was a vacancy for him to fill. 
 

Of course things went downhill even more rapidly after he arrived, but he alone didn’t bring about the collapse of a comfortably mid-table side. 

True, we were in decline.