Brentford 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, BranfootsLoveChild said:

Reading some of the comments about how a new manager would get us playing freeflowing, attacking football rather than the tripe we are watching now....do you believe we have the players capable of this style in the premier league? As I'm not sure we do. 

Well we don’t have the players who are capable of playing Russball.

[gammon cheeks]

11 hours ago, warsash saint said:

Thanks

Words to the other new one sung at beginning of first half??

Woke up this morning feeling fine

Got Russell Martin on my mind

Hes got us playing the way that southampton should ,oh yeah

Something tells me im onto something good

Edited September 1 by gammon cheeks

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, gammon cheeks said:

Woke up this morning feeling fine

Got Russell Martin on my mind

Hes got us playing the way that southampton should ,oh yeah

Something tells me im onto something good

That's spooky... I watched Naked Gun last night where this tune is played over the credits. Any parallels to be drawn between the Drebin and Martin...?

Edited September 1 by trousers

[gammon cheeks]

I thought that ! Nothing to do with them what you got in your wallet ...thought it was disgraceful !

[david in sweden]

Agreed Whitey Grandad, many new faces who aren't upto speed yet and the short-passing game we saw last season isn't working

at present , but hopefully the international break will give a breathing space to put things right.

 

Some of our best players from last season are still finding their feet ( Smallbone, Harwood-Bellis and Armstrong )...but the one thing that 

we really seek is the attacking build-up going into the final third.  Possession is fine, but the final moves have become more predictable and

lack the spontaneity of surprise needed against the higher quality of defender, which was obvious at Newcastle and Brentford. 

 

Although KWP and Sugawara (what a great goal b.t.w.) look convincing,  the arrival of Cornet and Fraser will provide some experience on the wings. 

Let's hope a few changes can solve the problem for the next league game ..after all, it is ONLY Man. Utd. 

[sfc4prem]

1 hour ago, SWLondon Saint said:

Absolutely, there was one wall pass by Smallbone against Forest that was absolutely criminal, Sugawara played an excellent ball round the corner off the right touchline under pressure, Smallbone had no one behind him and gave it straight back to Sugawara putting him and the team under huge pressure. He has to be good enough to know he can turn and go and he just wasn't. Drove me nuts 🤯

There was a similar situation against Brentford on MOTD where Downes played it straight back to Bednarek who was in the box with Wissa close by, despite having ample space to turn and drive forward. It makes it so easy for teams to focus and intensify their press on the defenders and goalkeeper.

[John Boy Saint]

3 hours ago, Football Special said:

. Would love to give this a good go , last hope is these new signings make a difference and having fresh eyes like Ramsdale walking back into the dressing room after defeat and saying what the fuck was that stupid passing giving away goals all about? Martin might start to listen. 

Given Martins perceived stubbornness - we will probably know Ramsdale actually did exactly that, when McCarthy is named in the starting line up for the next game. 😳

[derry]

On reflection several things stand out for me. Firstly playing out from the back isn't a problem. Secondly what is a problem is players like KWP, especially Smallbone, Aribo, Stephens receiving the ball then doing the easy option and sending it back towards the goal which then causes us problems. My suggestion play it out but that's it. If anybody passes back then the ball gets the full treatment out of the danger zone. The play out should be received and played forward. and the midfield / forwards should be ready to pass it forward and attack the opposition goal area. Possession for the sake of it is inviting problems which currently we create in spades around our own penalty area.

I favour four at the back, Sugawara, THB, Bednarek, KWP.  Stephens' ball watching and tendency to drop players in it is a no,no  for me. BBD / AA aren't wide players so stop playing them there. Midfield, Downes  deep, Ugochukwu, Fernandez, with attacking - Cornet/Fraser, BBD/Archer/ AA, Dibling. the jury is still out on ABK mainly because he needs to be totally committed to staying and playing for the team. Lallana can be introduced as required depending on the state of the game.

As an afterthought maybe 4-2-3-1. Midfield Downes and Ugochokwu, Fraser/Cornet  Fernandez, Dibling, Archer/BBD/AA

Edited September 1 by derry

[East Kent Saint]

Do we have to reassess Baz and RM after new premier standard keeper had a go ?

[Convict Colony]

6 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Do we have to reassess Baz and RM after new premier standard keeper had a go ?

No, none of the goals was his fault and they could of scored more.

[stknowle]

4 minutes ago, derry said:

On reflection several things stand out for me. Firstly playing out from the back isn't a problem. Secondly what is a problem is players like KWP, especially Smallbone, Aribo, Stephens receiving the ball then doing the easy option and sending it back towards the goal which then causes us problems. My suggestion play it out but that's it. If anybody passes back then the ball gets the full treatment out of the danger zone. The play out should be received and played forward. and the midfield / forwards should be ready to pass it forward and attack the opposition goal area. Possession for the sake of it is inviting problems which currently we create in spades around our own penalty area.

I favour four at the back, Sugawara, THB, Bednarek, KWP.  Stephens' ball watching and tendency to drop players in it is a no,no  for me. BBD / AA aren't wide players so stop playing them there. Midfield, Downes  deep, Ugochukwu, Fernandez, with attacking - Cornet/Fraser, BBD/Archer/ AA, Dibling. the jury is still out on ABK mainly because he needs to be totally committed to staying and playing for the team. Lallana can be introduced as required depending on the state of the game.

The thing is the whole purpose of the playing it around at the back is supposed to be to draw and then beat the press and break on a team that are overstretched because their press has been beaten. But we’re way too slow to break when we do beat the press, and we regularly get beaten by it!

[derry]

18 minutes ago, stknowle said:

The thing is the whole purpose of the playing it around at the back is supposed to be to draw and then beat the press and break on a team that are overstretched because their press has been beaten. But we’re way too slow to break when we do beat the press, and we regularly get beaten by it!

Our playing it aimlessly around, sideway and worse backwards again is the reason we attract the press and pressure ourselves into hurried mistakes. Secondly when we do play it out eventually the opposition defence is consolidated and eleven players goalside of our attack. Playing out from the back it isn't, its a nonsense. The play out should be moved quickly up through the midfield, breaking the lines and attacking the back line. We don't do that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

58 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

No, none of the goals was his fault and they could of scored more.

More importantly, what were his passing stats. 

[coalman]

Of the 5 we've conceded this season at least 3 have been self inflicted. We've dropped 2 points so far as a result.

There is a time to put your foot through the ball and we need our midfielders to turn into space when it's there rather than passing back into the danger zone. A pre-requisite for any player in midfield has to be finding pockets of space and being able to play on the half turn.

[Kenilworthy]

4 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Make a formal complaint, surely?

Formal complaint has been made

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Kenilworthy said:

Formal complaint has been made

Well done. That’s a very serious allegation and should be investigated. Nobody has the right to examine your wallet.

And demand that they hand you back your £500 whilst you’re at it 😉

[Sheaf Saint]

3 hours ago, trousers said:

That's spooky... I watched Naked Gun last night where this tune is played over the credits. Any parallels to be drawn between the Drebin and Martin...?

Surely there must be.

[sfc4prem]

50 minutes ago, coalman said:

Of the 5 we've conceded this season at least 3 have been self inflicted. We've dropped 2 points so far as a result.

There is a time to put your foot through the ball and we need our midfielders to turn into space when it's there rather than passing back into the danger zone. A pre-requisite for any player in midfield has to be finding pockets of space and being able to play on the half turn.

It's just a lack of footballing nous and intelligence of when and where to give and receive the ball.

[Saint Billy]

In between all the negatives of yesterday I have to give praise to the absolutely cracking goal that Sugawara scored with the outside of his foot along with the great buildup with Dibling and Lallana. That was a piece of beauty.

[derry]

30 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

In between all the negatives of yesterday I have to give praise to the absolutely cracking goal that Sugawara scored with the outside of his foot along with the great buildup with Dibling and Lallana. That was a piece of beauty.

An example of where taking defenders on and slickly moving the ball with a smart shot at the end is possession football of the highest order rather than the mistake ridden negative dross in our own penalty area. Where they got the idea that a ten yard ball forward to midfield should be followed by a twenty yard first time rebound pass back into our  goal area, Smallbone's trademark, is beyond me. Because Man City and Liverpool do it doesn't make it the way for less accomplished players to play. Especially as they rapidly move the ball wide and commence to pull teams apart with rapid ball movement often ending in a goal chance.

If Martin uses the next fortnight to drill more of the dross than less he needs firing. Passing the ball rapidly committing defenders is the way to go in the opponents half not going backwards in our half. It doesn't matter how often we practice it, it only takes one stupid pass or error to concede.

Edited September 1 by derry

[Dark Munster]

7 hours ago, saintant said:

So you're saying, despite RM continually telling anyone who'll listen that he will never change his play out from the back philosophy, he will do exactly that? I'm not holding my breath.

And he has no real incentive to change. SR foolishly extended his contract before the season started, so he can say to himself sod it, the worst that can happen is I’ll get a juicy payoff if I’m sacked.

He still had a couple of years left on it so why didn’t they wait before extending it? 

[Saint_clark]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

More importantly, what were his passing stats. 

Don't think he gave it away once. 

[OttawaSaint]

I wonder why Saints players keep passing to the other teams though? Are they stupid? 

[Sarnia Cherie]

8 hours ago, saintant said:

What did Murphy say? I think I could probably hazard a guess.

Danny Murphy said if Martin continues to play this way we will be another Burnley. 

[Bakovnetski]

4 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Surely there must be.

Don't call him Shirley 

[SWLondon Saint]

7 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

There was a similar situation against Brentford on MOTD where Downes played it straight back to Bednarek who was in the box with Wissa close by, despite having ample space to turn and drive forward. It makes it so easy for teams to focus and intensify their press on the defenders and goalkeeper.

Yep, that was actually the root cause of the 2nd goal. Just taking it on the half turn, advancing a few strides to commit 1/2 of the pressers, then playing it back if you must makes a huge difference to getting up the pitch. But giving it straight backwards makes things a lot worse.

Dunno if anyone coaches here, but I think the approach is different on the continent. Yes, 1 touch is good, but not always, sometimes it's better to take more! It's inherently more risky, so save the 1 touch for near their penalty area not your own.

Edited September 1 by SWLondon Saint
Typo

[Badger]

10 hours ago, Kenilworthy said:

Really annoyed by security at Brentford insisting on going through our wallets. I don't think that is acceptable. They even asked my son why he had so much cash on him. He told them it was none of their business. Shame he didn't give the Ballotelli response.

Is the excuse that they’re looking for drugs ?

If so, they should invest in some dogs, probably a lot more personable than some of the meatheads employed in gate searches and security.

10 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

Same thing happened at Newcastle. The one at Newcastle was far more thorough tbh.

I had no issue at Newcastle. 

[Badger]

10 hours ago, saintant said:

Just RM copying Pep again.

If he wants to be like Pep then the easiest way to achieve it is simple, shave his head. Hasn’t done Enzo’s career any harm. 

We simply don’t have the resources to copy him successfully on the pitch. 

[Badger]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Well done. That’s a very serious allegation and should be investigated. Nobody has the right to examine your wallet.

And demand that they hand you back your £500 whilst you’re at it 😉

I’m not sure, if as I said above, can’t this be justified on looking for drugs ?

Not that they’d expect that of our generation Whitey of course. 

Edited September 1 by Badger

[Kenilworthy]

19 minutes ago, Badger said:

I’m not sure, if as I said above, can’t this be justified on looking for drugs ?

Not that they’d expect that of our generation Whitey of course. But admit it you’re just embarrassed that they might find your out of date condoms. 

It is not acceptable to do this to away fans only. And it is definitely not acceptable to query how much cash you have on you. I am not expecting any response to my official complaint.

[Whitey Grandad]

20 minutes ago, Badger said:

I’m not sure, if as I said above, can’t this be justified on looking for drugs ?

Not that they’d expect that of our generation Whitey of course. But admit it you’re just embarrassed that they might find your out of date condoms. 

Ha! No use to me on a number of  counts.

Even the police would think twice about examining a wallet.

[Badger]

5 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

It is not acceptable to do this to away fans only. And it is definitely not acceptable to query how much cash you have on you. I am not expecting any response to my official complaint.

Sorry, had missed this point. Agree with you on that point. 

[Dark Munster]

6 hours ago, Kenilworthy said:

Formal complaint has been made

A formal complaint should also be made to our club about the suicidal passing around the penalty area.

[CougarSaint]

6 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Surely there must be.

Both appreciate nice beaver?

[Micky]

8 hours ago, stknowle said:

The thing is the whole purpose of the playing it around at the back is supposed to be to draw and then beat the press and break on a team that are overstretched because their press has been beaten. But we’re way too slow to break when we do beat the press, and we regularly get beaten by it!

Exactly, high risk, high reward.  Unfortunately though it's the opposition who are reaping the rewards of our inept attempts at keeping the ball, and beating the press.  Simply put, we're not good enough to play this system. 

[Kenilworthy]

This is the answer I got from Brentford. They did not answer my question about if they thought it was ok to ask a supporter to justify how much cash they had on them. They also did not answer my question if they carried out the same checks on home supporters.

Thank You for your email,

 We are sorry to hear that you had an unpleasant experience when entering our stadium at our recent match, this is not how we want any fan to feel at our stadium.

As a family Club we take safety very seriously, sometimes having to take potentially unpopular decisions to deal with particular safety issues.

 Drugs usage at stadia has increased dramatically and until behaviour changes and usage decreases such tactics are necessary to combat this issue. There were 297 arrests at Football matches for drug related offences by the Metropolitan Police last season.

 Since we introduced this policy, drugs related incidents within our stadium have decreased.

 With regards to having your wallet searched, I can confirm that the request to look into wallets is part of our standard search procedure at the ground. These requests are conducted on a random basis and if supporters' refuse to comply, then they can be refused entry into the stadium.

 This requirement to participate in a search is part of our conditions of entry and ground regulations and signage about search processes is displayed at the entrance for visiting supporters. For reference our searching teams are all SIA accredited staff and as part of their training, they follow the Security Industry Authority policy and procedures.

 This is covered by Premier League Ground Regulations and is a condition of entry – the specific references are provided below:

Section 6              All persons seeking entrance to the ground acknowledge the clubs right to search any person entering the ground and to refuse entry to or eject from the ground any person refusing to submit to such a search.

Section 7              The following articles must not be brought within the ground: illegal substances

 These ground regulations can be found on all Premier League clubs website’s.

 I hope this information clears up your concerns around our search processes.

 Kind regards,

Brentford FC

 

[Whitey Grandad]

12 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

This is the answer I got from Brentford. They did not answer my question about if they thought it was ok to ask a supporter to justify how much cash they had on them. They also did not answer my question if they carried out the same checks on home supporters.

Thank You for your email,

 We are sorry to hear that you had an unpleasant experience when entering our stadium at our recent match, this is not how we want any fan to feel at our stadium.

As a family Club we take safety very seriously, sometimes having to take potentially unpopular decisions to deal with particular safety issues.

 Drugs usage at stadia has increased dramatically and until behaviour changes and usage decreases such tactics are necessary to combat this issue. There were 297 arrests at Football matches for drug related offences by the Metropolitan Police last season.

 Since we introduced this policy, drugs related incidents within our stadium have decreased.

 With regards to having your wallet searched, I can confirm that the request to look into wallets is part of our standard search procedure at the ground. These requests are conducted on a random basis and if supporters' refuse to comply, then they can be refused entry into the stadium.

 This requirement to participate in a search is part of our conditions of entry and ground regulations and signage about search processes is displayed at the entrance for visiting supporters. For reference our searching teams are all SIA accredited staff and as part of their training, they follow the Security Industry Authority policy and procedures.

 This is covered by Premier League Ground Regulations and is a condition of entry – the specific references are provided below:

Section 6              All persons seeking entrance to the ground acknowledge the clubs right to search any person entering the ground and to refuse entry to or eject from the ground any person refusing to submit to such a search.

Section 7              The following articles must not be brought within the ground: illegal substances

 These ground regulations can be found on all Premier League clubs website’s.

 I hope this information clears up your concerns around our search processes.

 Kind regards,

Brentford FC

 

Doesn’t answer your complaint and doesn’t mention wallets. That is a gross invasion of privacy. Tell them that you made a mistake about there being £500 missing and that it’s now gone up to £1000. 😉 They can’t prove that it wasn’t in there.

[Micky]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Doesn’t answer your complaint and doesn’t mention wallets. That is a gross invasion of privacy. Tell them that you made a mistake about there being £500 missing and that it’s now gone up to £1000. 😉 They can’t prove that it wasn’t in there.

Eeerrrrr i think it does:

"With regards to having your wallet searched, I can confirm that the request to look into wallets is part of our standard search procedure at the ground. These requests are conducted on a random basis and if supporters' refuse to comply, then they can be refused entry into the stadium."

[Whitey Grandad]

20 minutes ago, Micky said:

Eeerrrrr i think it does:

"With regards to having your wallet searched, I can confirm that the request to look into wallets is part of our standard search procedure at the ground. These requests are conducted on a random basis and if supporters' refuse to comply, then they can be refused entry into the stadium."

So it does. That is disgraceful. That leaves them open to all sorts of complaints.

[derry]

However the letter says look into wallets it doesn't say they have to handle them. 

[Saint_clark]

16 hours ago, Badger said:

I’m not sure, if as I said above, can’t this be justified on looking for drugs ?

Not that they’d expect that of our generation Whitey of course. 

Searching through someone's wallet is not acceptable and I suspect not legal either, not at a fucking football ground. 

The looking for drugs routine is bollocks. 

Funny isn't it how stop and search is seen as racist but searching football fans goes ignored. 

Edited September 2 by Saint_clark

[SambaMaverick]

I've had my wallet searched when going into a club quite regularly, wouldn't have bothered me too much if they asked on Saturday.

Questioning the amount of cash is a bid odd though.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

So it does. That is disgraceful. That leaves them open to all sorts of complaints.

Why are you so upset about, did they find a white fiver in yours? 
 

It’s no big deal, what’s the difference between emptying your pockets and opening your wallet? 

Edited September 2 by Lord Duckhunter

[Whitey Grandad]

13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Why are you so upset about, did they find a white fiver in yours? 
 

It’s no big deal, what’s the difference between emptying your pockets and opening your wallet? 

Of course it’s a big deal. It’s an invasion of personal space. I would have refused. Even emptying your pockets is bad enough. We don’t know who these people are and they could quite easily be marking up targets for their pickpocket muggermates just around the corner.

What next? Drop your knickers and bend over and let me examine you up the arse?

[Kenilworthy]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Why are you so upset about, did they find a white fiver in yours? 
 

It’s no big deal, what’s the difference between emptying your pockets and opening your wallet? 

My main concern is that after a period of away supporters being treated with relevant decency we are starting to see a reversion to old ways of discrimination. Because I think we can be pretty sure that home supporters did not have their wallets searched - a point they didn't answer. They quote 297 arrests by the Metropolitan Police for drug related offences at football matches last season - that is actually a tiny number considering it covers 12 clubs grounds and Wembley.

[Lord Duckhunter]

8 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

 

What next? Drop your knickers and bend over and let me examine you up the arse?

That’s why I’m not doing Brighton away. 

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s why I’m not doing Brighton away. 

Are they known for that then?

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Are they known for that then?

The opposite - they never do it. LD was gutted, he already had his belt unbuckled. 

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Of course it’s a big deal. It’s an invasion of personal space. I would have refused. Even emptying your pockets is bad enough. We don’t know who these people are and they could quite easily be marking up targets for their pickpocket muggermates just around the corner.

What next? Drop your knickers and bend over and let me examine you up the arse?

 

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s why I’m not doing Brighton away. 

That's why I'm doing Brighton away.

[malcolm waldron]

On 01/09/2024 at 12:40, derry said:

Our playing it aimlessly around, sideway and worse backwards again is the reason we attract the press and pressure ourselves into hurried mistakes. Secondly when we do play it out eventually the opposition defence is consolidated and eleven players goalside of our attack. Playing out from the back it isn't, its a nonsense. The play out should be moved quickly up through the midfield, breaking the lines and attacking the back line. We don't do that.

But we saw this all the way through last season.  I think Rotherham at home (second half) was when it became apparent that, for reasons unknown, there's a collective foot off the pedal phase where we simply shuffle the ball around between CBs and fullbacks, while the opposition sprint back into defensive shape.  Huddersfield away and Watford away also stand out - after that I gave up remembering.  So doing that got many wins and some frustrating draws.  This season's version looks like many defeats and the odd frustrating draw unless we up the tempo significantly.  2nd half against Newcastle was an example of not upping the tempo.