Brentford 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

[sfc4prem]

4 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Derbys recording low of 11 points is in serious danger 

Didn't they get promoted in an unlikely manner through the playoffs, too?

[SambaMaverick]

3 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Listening to the aftermatch between Russell Martin and Blackmore. I DID hear what I wanted. 

For the second goal he mentioned that the ball should not have been passed back, inviting pressure, and then that Stephens and Bednarek should not have got so close to each other. 

Like last year, we're having a slow start, but get that line higher, stop the errors and get the ball to our exciting young players.

Ramsdale, Fernandes, Suguwara, KWP and Downes are names that have to be on the first names on the team sheet for Man U.

The rest I'm flexible on. They need to earn it in training.

 

How many times do we hear that one before it starts to really grate though?

[ErwinK1961]

3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

You joke but I genuinely have a bit of hope that something like that could happen. We know Lallana isn’t just here for a playing career swansong, he’s got coaching/managerial ambitions. And he’s getting a rep for putting his ideas across. The big hope is that he’s the experienced voice that RM needs to hear against him.

Lallana will be in charge by Xmas.

[Harry_SFC]

4 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Listening to the aftermatch between Russell Martin and Blackmore. I DID hear what I wanted. 

For the second goal he mentioned that the ball should not have been passed back, inviting pressure, and then that Stephens and Bednarek should not have got so close to each other. 

Like last year, we're having a slow start, but get that line higher, stop the errors and get the ball to our exciting young players.

Ramsdale, Fernandes, Suguwara, KWP and Downes are names that have to be on the first names on the team sheet for Man U.

The rest I'm flexible on. They need to earn it in training.

 

Isn't that Martins own fault for playing Stephens in this stupid position where by he just gets in the way?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

4 minutes ago, Nolan said:

For the second goal he mentioned that the ball should not have been passed back, inviting pressure, and then that Stephens and Bednarek should not have got so close to each other. 

But surely they are playing to Martin's directions and instructions? These guys are senior pro's, Bednarek is a Polish international with god knows how many caps. They should not be passing it backwards and sideways to each other. The only way they are doing so is because they have been told to do it.

[Pamplemousse]

One thing that was really noticeable was how slow we pass the ball. So pedestrian.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, Nolan said:

For the second goal he mentioned that the ball should not have been passed back, inviting pressure, and then that Stephens and Bednarek should not have got so close to each other. 

But surely they are playing to Martin's directions and instructions? These guys are senior pro's, Bednarek is a Polish international with god knows how many caps. They should not be passing it backwards and sideways to each other. The only way they are doing so is because they have been told to do it.

[gio1saints]

18 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You miss the point. We shouldn't be playing three at the back and most people frustrated about Stephens is because he's playing in a system that people don't want and that we can't play successfully in this league. If you are wedded to playing Stephens then play 4 at the back and drop THB. At least that would be decisive rather than this mess where Stephens has no defined position and gives the impression of being shoehorned into the team. 

 

Do any of you remember WHY we started playing three at the. Back? 
Was it because we were winning all our games playing differently? 
or was it because we needed to tighten up at the back and it actually helped strengthen us defensively in our final ( tough) games and get promoted ?

If you think it was a bad idea after three shit matches I get it. But of you have such short memories. No other manager with that squad those players would have changed that winning formula. 
 

Im as disappointed as anyone- but some of you seriously got to take a deep breath and consider what pathetic whinging bitches you all sound like . 😂

Edited August 31 by gio1saints

[egg]

16 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Whether or not you consider Stephens to be better that THB at the moment doesn’t alter the fact that Stephens is a liability. If not playing Stephens means that we cannot play there at the back then so much the better.

Are you seriously suggesting that THB should be playing ahead of Stephens at the moment? He's the liability at the moment. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, Nolan said:

For the second goal he mentioned that the ball should not have been passed back, inviting pressure, and then that Stephens and Bednarek should not have got so close to each other. 

But surely they are playing to Martin's directions and instructions? These guys are senior pro's, Bednarek is a Polish international with god knows how many caps. They should not be passing it backwards and sideways to each other. The only way they are doing so is because they have been told to do it.

[Baird of the land]

6 minutes ago, disconnect said:

Why is the team seemingly built around playing Stephens now (5 at the back to fit him in, shift to left back when going to 4 at the back, play in central midfield?!), when the period we were best last season was when he wasn't in the team?! As much as he has passion (i.e. the same thing Lyanco was lynched for), he's not premier league standard. The sooner we can move on from him, Aribo and Smallbone, the sooner we start picking up results. 

He seems more premier league standard than THB.

[egg]

Just now, gio1saints said:

Do any of you remember WHY we started playing three at the. Back? 
Was it because we were winning all our games playing differently? 
or was it because we needed to tighten up at the back and it actually helped strengthen us defensively in our final ( tough) games and get promoted ?

If you think it was a bad idea after three shit matches I get it. But of you have such short memories. No other manager with that squad those players would have changed that winning formula. 
 

Im as disappointed as anyone- but some of you seriously got to take a deep breath and consider what pathetic whinging butches you all sound like . 😂

Yep. Lots of people seem to have a master degree in hindsight at the moment, and poor memories. 

[Harry_SFC]

Just now, egg said:

Are you seriously suggesting that THB should be playing ahead of Stephens at the moment? He's the liability at the moment. 

I don't think either should be playing. Should be ABK and Bednarek.

[Gloucester Saint]

12 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Listening to the aftermatch between Russell Martin and Blackmore. I DID hear what I wanted. 

For the second goal he mentioned that the ball should not have been passed back, inviting pressure, and then that Stephens and Bednarek should not have got so close to each other. 

Like last year, we're having a slow start, but get that line higher, stop the errors and get the ball to our exciting young players.

Ramsdale, Fernandes, Suguwara, KWP and Downes are names that have to be on the first names on the team sheet for Man U.

The rest I'm flexible on. They need to earn it in training.

 

Add in Lesley and I’m with you. Aribo is a handy squad option at the level, good with the ball but you simply cannot live with PL midfields full stop with him and Smallbone. Flynn can’t cover those two, he has his own battles to win at this level and he can’t be facing 2 or 3 on.

Will needs to bulk up like Drew Surman did to play in the top flight after Mick McCarthy sorted him out because Saints were in too much a mess at the time to do it. Gym work intensively, protein diet, once he’s bossing u23 games first minute to ninety then he’s ready for the first team squad. The days of Ian Ormendroyd and Ian Olney as skinny rakes in the top flight are long gone. He’s up against elite athletes in a kid’s body. Got the technical ability but so easy to push him off the ball and directly cost us a game last week. Crouch was tall and rangy but could handle the physical side. Will looks like Tyro u11s at the moment playing in the Wessex League.

 

Edited August 31 by Gloucester Saint

[The Kraken]

Just now, Pamplemousse said:

One thing that was really noticeable was how slow we pass the ball. So pedestrian.

True. Brentford passed quicker and broke at ease. The one time we did it properly, first half, BBD got a pass and drove on and played in AA who could’ve gone down after an ankle tap, it looked genuinely decent. Other times we just retain the ball and let their defenders get back into shape.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Yep. Lots of people seem to have a master degree in hindsight at the moment, and poor memories. 

Or they just had that opinion from the start of the season and have an opinion that differs from yours? You really seem to get a bee in your bonnet about people that disagree with you. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, gio1saints said:

Do any of you remember WHY we started playing three at the. Back? 
Was it because we were winning all our games playing differently? 
or was it because we needed to tighten up at the back and it actually helped strengthen us defensively in our final ( tough) games and get promoted ?

If you think it was a bad idea after three shit matches I get it. But of you have such short memories. No other manager with that squad those players would have changed that winning formula. 
 

Im as disappointed as anyone- but some of you seriously got to take a deep breath and consider what pathetic whinging butches you all sound like . 😂

It was a formula to get us through the playoffs, probably stumbled across due to Baz's injury. We barely got through playing that system in the Championship, now facing better opposition we are stil playing that system in the PL. Its fuckin madness. 

[sfc4prem]

4 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

One thing that was really noticeable was how slow we pass the ball. So pedestrian.

It often only just makes it to its recipient. Especially between the defenders.

It's like one of those dreams where every punch you land is a feeble cloud, despite you putting all of your effort into it 😅

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

It was a formula to get us through the playoffs, probably stumbled across due to Baz's injury. We barely got through playing that system in the Championship, now facing better opposition we are stil playing that system in the PL. Its fuckin madness. 

100%.

[egg]

8 minutes ago, disconnect said:

Why is the team seemingly built around playing Stephens now (5 at the back to fit him in, shift to left back when going to 4 at the back, play in central midfield?!), when the period we were best last season was when he wasn't in the team?! As much as he has passion (i.e. the same thing Lyanco was lynched for), he's not premier league standard. The sooner we can move on from him, Aribo and Smallbone, the sooner we start picking up results. 

And here's another one. Have you watched us this season?

If so, who's been better, Stephens or THB? Of the two, do to really think Stephens should drop out? 

How did we do Wednesday with a back 4? Did we concede more goals today with a back 3 or back 4 playing?

It's pretty obvious why he's playing a 3, and why Stephens is one of the 3. 

People ain't thinking before posting. 

[SambaMaverick]

It's nothing to do with formation imo. It's just the style and philosophy of a naive manager who will do absolutely nothing or note in this league if he carries on like this.

[Patches O Houlihan]

14 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

You joke but I genuinely have a bit of hope that something like that could happen. We know Lallana isn’t just here for a playing career swansong, he’s got coaching/managerial ambitions. And he’s getting a rep for putting his ideas across. The big hope is that he’s the experienced voice that RM needs to hear against him.

Lallana literally coached Dibling into the pass that made the goal in real time. He may be slow around the pitch but it actually very impressive to watch him coach from the pitch. He did it against Cardiff successfully, but I didn't think we'd see it in the Prem to the same level of success.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, egg said:

And here's another one. Have you watched us this season?

If so, who's been better, Stephens or THB? Of the two, do to really think Stephens should drop out? 

How did we do Wednesday with a back 4? Did we concede more goals today with a back 3 or back 4 playing?

It's pretty obvious why he's playing a 3, and why Stephens is one of the 3. 

People ain't thinking before posting. 

Why are you banging on about Wednesday? It was a cup game with a completely different back five, which barring disasters will never be seen again. It has no revelance to our performance today. 

[Disco Stu]

26 minutes ago, egg said:

Fernandes would have been knackered after Wednesday (his first start for us) so I completely get not starting him, ditto Lesley and Dibling. Ramsdale is a different issue, he hadn't played midweek, and keepers could probably play every day. 

On the main point, I fundamentally disagree that wholesale changes after 2 games is anything other than an overreaction, and wouldn't have helped morale amongst players who are probably struggling a wee bit anyway. 

Now he's got to change things. Formation, tactics, personnel, everything.

I take you back to my original point. That team he put out simply isn't competitive at this level. There's nothing worse for morale than losing.

[beatlesaint]

17 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

You joke but I genuinely have a bit of hope that something like that could happen. We know Lallana isn’t just here for a playing career swansong, he’s got coaching/managerial ambitions. And he’s getting a rep for putting his ideas across. The big hope is that he’s the experienced voice that RM needs to hear against him.

I actually wasn’t joking 👀

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I don't think either should be playing. Should be ABK and Bednarek.

Another with hindsight. 

ABK has about as much chance of playing as me or you mate. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Why are you banging on about Wednesday? It was a cup game with a completely different back five, which barring disasters will never be seen again. It has no revelance to our performance today. 

Because that was an RM coached back 4. And it was shit. 

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

And here's another one. Have you watched us this season?

If so, who's been better, Stephens or THB? Of the two, do to really think Stephens should drop out? 

How did we do Wednesday with a back 4? Did we concede more goals today with a back 3 or back 4 playing?

It's pretty obvious why he's playing a 3, and why Stephens is one of the 3. 

People ain't thinking before posting. 

As someone else said earlier which you ignored, we conceded one goal from a Lumley fuck up, one worldoe that was unstoppable and then another goal when we had switched to three at the back. So not quite the gotcha you think it is. 

Edited August 31 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Because that was an RM coached back 4. And it was shit. 

It was shit because it was our reserves and it involved a substandard keeper being terrible. It had little if anything to do with the formation. 

Edited August 31 by hypochondriac

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Because that was an RM coached back 4. And it was shit. 

It was shit because it consisted of five players who aren't likely to make five league appearences between them this season barring injuries and suspensions. Nothing to do with formations. 

[Whitey Grandad]

33 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

You joke but I genuinely have a bit of hope that something like that could happen. We know Lallana isn’t just here for a playing career swansong, he’s got coaching/managerial ambitions. And he’s getting a rep for putting his ideas across. The big hope is that he’s the experienced voice that RM needs to hear against him.

Lallana is a coach in waiting.

[Morse]

.It's so easy for the opposition every week. They know what we're going to do, play out from the back. All thyy have to do is push up, put pressure on and wait for the inevitable mistake. No need to be cautious we're never going to knock it long over their heads. 

[Whitey Grandad]

28 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Do any of you remember WHY we started playing three at the. Back? 
Was it because we were winning all our games playing differently? 
or was it because we needed to tighten up at the back and it actually helped strengthen us defensively in our final ( tough) games and get promoted ?

If you think it was a bad idea after three shit matches I get it. But of you have such short memories. No other manager with that squad those players would have changed that winning formula. 
 

Im as disappointed as anyone- but some of you seriously got to take a deep breath and consider what pathetic whinging bitches you all sound like . 😂

I shall whinge and bitch all I like. 
 

This system is shit. You keep on about a ‘winning formula’ yet that was last season in a lower league where our forwards covered up our defensive weaknesses. Just look at how many goals we conceded by playing that way.

[Whitey Grandad]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

Are you seriously suggesting that THB should be playing ahead of Stephens at the moment? He's the liability at the moment. 

Yes. Or any of the other central defenders that we have on our books.

[lhammondo]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Blackmore didn't call him out directly enough for me. He's having to moderate his questions due to Martin bullying him in the past. 

Bullying him? What happened?

[Whitey Grandad]

27 minutes ago, egg said:

And here's another one. Have you watched us this season?

If so, who's been better, Stephens or THB? Of the two, do to really think Stephens should drop out? 

How did we do Wednesday with a back 4? Did we concede more goals today with a back 3 or back 4 playing?

It's pretty obvious why he's playing a 3, and why Stephens is one of the 3. 

People ain't thinking before posting. 

Stephens didn’t play on Wednesday. The system had nothing to do with the goals that we conceded.

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Forester said:

In my opinion, way too much focus on formation and not enough on the absolute clear main problem.  If you are careless with the ball at edge of our own area you will get punished by Premier League players.  End of.

You can be careful or reckless with three or four at the back.  We won’t be a team who scores three or four goals most weeks, and so our only route to safety is probably keeping eight to ten clean sheets this season.  We have zero chance of doing that believing we are Man City.

 

Yeah, that's probably fair.

Our problem isn't the passing out from the back in isolation, it's how we often keep panicking in posession and playing balls back or sideways, in dangerous area's, that are never on.

The second goal is a clear example. We moved the ball out to full back, rather than look for a quick pass forward we went backwards again and that was the trigger for Brentfords press. When we then tried to move it out from the back, via Bednarek, he was disposed because he shouldn't have had that ball in the first place. I know a lot is made of being brave etc, but passing backwards into the dangerous area is out of fear. Too scared to try a risky pass forward, so they play it backwards, get themselves all in a knot and end up making more of a mess than they would have if they'd just moved it forward or at least tried it.

[gio1saints]

12 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

100%.

Given the choice would you consider it wisest to start season playing the way that got us promoted playing v Leeds and West Brom - or go back to the way we played prior to them v inferior teams which saw us lose all hope of automatic??? 

You are implying the latter and suggest you thought so all season - which sounds as utterly ludicrous as it is. 

I guess your - and some other hysterical folk on here - football knowledge skill tells us that we should have reverted to the formation incapable of beating those football titans - or a magic plan C that nobody had yet shared and is obviously invisible to RM - but im not buying it. 

I think three matches of failure is enough to require change though. Pretty much. 
 

But seriously- all of you with “ reservations” to put it mildly about RM that are having an unseemly orgasmic feeding frenzy over this terrible selection, set up and performance just take a chill pill.
Success and failure, those two twin imposters. 
 

[saintant]

31 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Add in Lesley and I’m with you. Aribo is a handy squad option at the level, good with the ball but you simply cannot live with PL midfields full stop with him and Smallbone. Flynn can’t cover those two, he has his own battles to win at this level and he can’t be facing 2 or 3 on.

Will needs to bulk up like Drew Surman did to play in the top flight after Mick McCarthy sorted him out because Saints were in too much a mess at the time to do it. Gym work intensively, protein diet, once he’s bossing u23 games first minute to ninety then he’s ready for the first team squad. The days of Ian Ormendroyd and Ian Olney as skinny rakes in the top flight are long gone. He’s up against elite athletes in a kid’s body. Got the technical ability but so easy to push him off the ball and directly cost us a game last week. Crouch was tall and rangy but could handle the physical side. Will looks like Tyro u11s at the moment playing in the Wessex League.

 

Exactly - he should be one of the first names on the team sheet because he is what our midfield has been missing for an age.

[gio1saints]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I shall whinge and bitch all I like. 
 

This system is shit. You keep on about a ‘winning formula’ yet that was last season in a lower league where our forwards covered up our defensive weaknesses. Just look at how many goals we conceded by playing that way.

5 in three games. Why are you so hysterical after three matches. Oh I forget you were hysterical same time last year also. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Given the choice would you consider it wisest to start season playing the way that got us promoted playing v Leeds and West Brom - or go back to the way we played prior to them v inferior teams which saw us lose all hope of automatic??? 

You are implying the latter and suggest you thought so all season - which sounds as utterly ludicrous as it is. 

I guess your - and some other hysterical folk on here - football knowledge skill tells us that we should have reverted to the formation incapable of beating those football titans - or a magic plan C that nobody had yet shared and is obviously invisible to RM - but im not buying it. 

I think three matches of failure is enough to require change though. Pretty much. 
 

But seriously- all of you with “ reservations” to put it mildly about RM that are having an unseemly orgasmic feeding frenzy over this terrible selection, set up and performance just take a chill pill.
Success and failure, those two twin imposters. 
 

You go on and on about last season but Leeds and West Brom are a division lower than us.

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, gio1saints said:

5 in three games. Why are you so hysterical after three matches. Oh I forget you were hysterical same time last year also. 

63 goals is how many we conceded last season.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, gio1saints said:

5 in three games. Why are you so hysterical after three matches. Oh I forget you were hysterical same time last year also. 

With very good reason. We scraped promotion. Let’s not delude ourselves.

[Morse]

Russ is not going to learn and incapable of change. I'd give him 2 more games and if we're still on 0 points sack him. 

[ErwinK1961]

It has to be Les, Flynn and Fernandes going forward. Anything else and he deserves to go.

Could a diamond work maybe?

                             Les

    Downes                        Fernandes

                       Tyler / Lallana

 

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

63 goals is how many we conceded last season.

Another 3 goals against Cardiff City's U21's/u18's team as well.

It's pretty evident that the way he approaches games will cost teams goals. At lower levels he can make up for that as his teams score goals against weaker sides, but at this level there will be nowhere to hide unless he becomes a tiny bit more pragmatic.

Edited August 31 by S-Clarke

[warsash saint]

My random thoughts after just getting home

We can't score with 5 at the back

We can't keep the goals out with 4 at the back

Fernandez/ Dibling need to start next game

Some great new songs today

My first trip to the Gtech... what a soulless, industrial unit of a ground.  For a new ground it must have the worst scoreboard/PA system in the league!!

[a1ex2001]

9 minutes ago, Morse said:

Russ is not going to learn and incapable of change. I'd give him 2 more games and if we're still on 0 points sack him. 

Why waste two games? The board need to ask him if he is going to change the style if not they should fire him in the morning!

[hypochondriac]

In what way is Martin suggesting that English football critics and pundits are simply not enlightened enough to appreciate his brand of losing football much different from some of the mad nate meltdowns from last year? I hate his smug belief that he is special and that others just can't see the value in his progressive style because they are uneducated. 

Edited August 31 by hypochondriac

[Yorkshire Saint]

6 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

My random thoughts after just getting home

We can't score with 5 at the back

We can't keep the goals out with 4 at the back

Fernandez/ Dibling need to start next game

Some great new songs today

My first trip to the Gtech... what a soulless, industrial unit of a ground.  For a new ground it must have the worst scoreboard/PA system in the league!!

Any idea what the words to the song that starts with something around 1885 ?