Brentford 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Themotherfunky]

We saw it against Cardiff, if we pass and move with intent, and make runs and break quickly into their half, we'll grab more chances and goals. If we crawl at a snails pace, we haven't got a hope in hell. It's not rocket science.

 As soon as Fernandes got the ball after he came on, he turned and ran. Made up about 40 yards on his own. Dibling took out 3 or 4 players on his own with a bit of dribbling. Lallana came on and showed for the ball in various positions, trying to progress it.

[Vancouver Saint]

So RM says "we'll create more chances playing tippy-tappy out of the back (every f...in' time btw) than we concede"...NO MATE YOU"RE WRONG. That is the third time we've beaten ourselves because we're not good enough to do that in the PL and if you are as predictable as that with no variation ever we will succumb to the press every time. Five goals conceded, four of which have been to 'suicide' self-destruct mistakes at the back - so let's keep track shall we Russell - you owe us four goals.

Serious questions about whether he will learn fast enough to not be enslaved by his ideology and to learn to mix things up. We have enough good players to survive, but will we play them and in the right way?

Set-up wrong again...five at the back, inviting pressure...I understand loyalty to players who got him promoted but seriously, Smallbone? Clearly not strong enough for this division. Armstrong, enough now. Stephens, was okay today but a below-average PL CB lacking technical skill that will not give us an advantage. THB and Bednarek both terrible today. KWP not at his best. Quite a few players not playing that well tbh...way too many giveaways under no real pressure.

Credit RM tried to change it at half-time and we were showing real promise with Fernandes, Archer and Dibling all big improvements when Bednerak commits our second self-destruct and kills the game.

Positives - all the subs better than the starters. Aribo played well. Sugawara a revelation. Ramsey will make a good difference, especially if he's allowed to distribute fast and long. We had a good transfer window...long season and all that.

But we've got to be able to score goals. We won't do that when we invite the ball into our own 'red zone' close to our goal because we choose to pass it back and around our own penalty area EVERY FRIGGIN' TIME! 

[Oldandtired]

3 minutes ago, Luke SkyWalker-Peters said:

But, I suspect Sport Republic will have Graham Potter on speed dial if things are not looking better by October.

That’ll do nicely thank you.

[Winnersaint]

Just now, Oldandtired said:

That’ll do nicely thank you.

His Brighton team didn't score freely

[badgerx16]

No need to panic just yet. We may have struggled against the giants that are Forest and Brentford, but our next game should be much more to our liking.

[badgerx16]

Just now, Winnersaint said:

His Brighton team didn't score freely

Did they piss about at the back and hand their opponents an easy 3 points every game ?

[Oldandtired]

Just now, Winnersaint said:

His Brighton team didn't score freely

They weren’t easy to play aqainst either. I’ll settle for not making the other team’s job easier by committing suicide in our own area.

[Baird of the land]

5 minutes ago, Themotherfunky said:

We saw it against Cardiff, if we pass and move with intent, and make runs and break quickly into their half, we'll grab more chances and goals. If we crawl at a snails pace, we haven't got a hope in hell. It's not rocket science.

 As soon as Fernandes got the ball after he came on, he turned and ran. Made up about 40 yards on his own. Dibling took out 3 or 4 players on his own with a bit of dribbling. Lallana came on and showed for the ball in various positions, trying to progress it.

Sorry but we also looked horribly exposed any time we lost the ball and that was against a Brentford team that was in cruise control attest point.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Listening to RM on Solent. He really is full of fuckin shit. 

[gammon cheeks]

Pissed up after the game....absolute bullshit football..picking same team that started against Forest absolute bollocks 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Listening to RM on Solent. He really is full of fuckin shit. 

Promotion was the worst thing that could have happened to him. The Ego has landed.

[Disco Stu]

8 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

His Brighton team didn't score freely

This team will never score freely which is why it's essential we don't gift silly goals. What we need is someone to realise faffing with the ball at the back is suicidal. Whether that will be Russell I don't know but a bit of pragmatism today would have kept us in the game. Brentford weren't brilliant put pressed us at every opportunity, as every team we play will, and they got their rewards.

Edited August 31 by Disco Stu

[Convict Colony]

Martin needs a manager mentor to bounce ideas off.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Fatigue in fuckin August?! Just fuck off.

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Listening to RM on Solent. He really is full of fuckin shit. 

The utter cunt is throwing the players under the bus saying "I don't know why we've passed it around/back in those situations" 

THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED.

[hypochondriac]

Martin: “We’ve conceded five goals. Three individual mistakes and two set-plays. I actually think we played really well at times today, we had the best chance of the first half with Adam, it needs to go in.”

That's just bollocks. I don't think even he believes that. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Martin: “We’ve conceded five goals. Three individual mistakes and two set-plays. I actually think we played really well at times today, we had the best chance of the first half with Adam, it needs to go in.”

That's just bollocks. I don't think even he believes that. 

Tessem calling him out on that one.

[cloggy saint]

I don't get it, promoted teams usually do so well.

[thornhill_saints]

Another #Shitshow - Like I stated the other week, a reason while I didn't renew season ticket, for a kid to watch week in week out their team get hammered / embarrassing  - Fucking SAD

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

I don't get it, promoted teams usually do so well.

It's the manner of the defeats, not the results in isolation. 

[derry]

For a start three games five goals conceded. Newcastle, McCarthy passes to Isak, NF, Aribo tries to control the ball instead of clearing, Brentford, KWP sloppy underhit pass started it, Two more errors, Why wasn't a defender on the back post for long throws. The throw usually goes near post for a flick on.Martin's one trick pony passing in our own penalty area will get us relegated, Thats three games and no points. We cannot keep on doing this. Martin needs to cut this crap out and defend hard, pass forward  and play from midfield.

We brought on substitutes for Smallbone, THB, Armstrong and Aribo. BBD on the left was a nonsense, chasing the game pair with Archer. Dibling brilliant on the right, Fernandez an improvement, Lallana was clever when he came on. Martin needs to accept that playing with four at the back then they are defenders. Go 4-4-2 not 4-3-3. Dibling, Downes, Fernandez and a left winger. Martin has an obsession with playing from the back, it's too slow and allows opponents to consolidate the defence. Brentford cut us apart on many occasions because they passed and ran with rare recycling. Ramsdale is an excellent long passer so let him do it. We need to play more dynamically, pass quicker and break rapidly. 

[Ed Rooney]

Fuckin amateur hour, if he can’t see who is better than who and what works and what doesn’t by now then fuck me

[Dan Johnson]

Comical Defending aside, frustratingly that’s a better performance than against forest.

There’s positives, pretty much every signing looks like a step up in quality from what we have. Suga, Ramsdale, Fernandes, Archer, Lallana.

Then we have Dibling coming in.

familiar old faces letting us down today, Stephens, Adam Armstrong missing, Bednarek. 

As soon as Dibling/Fernandes came on they offered us soo much more, getting the ball on the half turn and allowing us to beat the press, it pushed the game 10/15 yards further up the pitch. Then we can play our possession game with our CBs closer to the half way line. With Smallbone constantly having his back to the opposition goal the ball always comes back to our CBs and allows opposition to press and puts us under pressure. 

Games after the international break will tell us if Martin is learning the harsh and quick lessons he needs to, we need to see more of the new signings/Dibling and less of the old guard, harsh maybe, but necessary, 4/5 have already proved why they’ve struggled at this level previously.

if we see the same starting 11 against Utd than we did today, fans will turn on Martin

[hypochondriac]

Martin also said that the only reason Fernandes and Dibling didn't start was because they has played so much against Cardiff. Why the feck did you give them so much game time on Wednesday then if you felt it was going to hamper your ability to play your best team on Saturday? That makes zero sense. 

[OttawaSaint]

Let's face it, we got promoted in spite of his fannying in the box because we had players who could score in the Championship and win 3-2 or 4-3 or whatever.

We'd have won the title with a decent manager.

[Saint_clark]

Blackmore didn't call him out directly enough for me. He's having to moderate his questions due to Martin bullying him in the past. 

[Gloucester Saint]

7 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Sorry but we also looked horribly exposed any time we lost the ball and that was against a Brentford team that was in cruise control attest point.

Only because we’d already long since conceded the midfield by leaving Flynn on his own against their strong and athletic units by selecting Aribo who is not really box to box and Smallbone who has the frame of a 16 year old lad. 

[OttawaSaint]

Seems like once RM's starting lineup/formation/plan goes awry, he makes subs and the players just say fuck it and play their own way. We loook much better when that happens.

[saintant]

11 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Fatigue in fuckin August?! Just fuck off.

He didn't say that.....surely.

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Martin: “We’ve conceded five goals. Three individual mistakes and two set-plays. I actually think we played really well at times today, we had the best chance of the first half with Adam, it needs to go in.”

That's just bollocks. I don't think even he believes that. 

He's a fraud and is about to get found out big time.

[Whitey Grandad]

We had 63.3% possession though. If anything shows what a useless obsession this is it’s the 3-0 score line.

[Gloucester Saint]

With the transfer window closing, Stephens, AA, Smallbone and Aribo need a break until November or so, prioritise Fernandes, Lesley, Archer, cameos from Lallana. Ramsdale-THB- Bednarek need to build an understanding.

If any positives come out of a dire display and result, the end of the poxy slow passing triangles at the back would be a good one. We’re a promoted via 4th FFS, defend properly, look to find Flynn/Lesley/Fernandes at the first available opportunity or sometimes to mix it up and beat the press look for BBD/Cornet/Archer early and get a couple of the CMs driving with Flynn or Lesley holding.

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

He didn't say that.....surely.

Maybe he’s fatigued?

[Graffito]

18 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Well it didn't take us long to be brought back down to earth after May.

We're certainly back in the utter misery of the PL, such a miserable league to be part of if you're a poor side, sadly you need to be here financially though. Doesn't make it any easier to take getting beaten every week, just like we were two years ago. Nothing has changed.

We scored a goal though, who'd have thought it.

Smallbone needs to be taken out of the firing line for his own sake, not good enough for this level as it stands. Aribo the same who is just a mess when he's pressed. Armstrong missed chances like that last season, but he got another 2 or 3 in the same game to make up for it. In this league you get 1, that's it. He thrives on space which we don't get at this level, he isn't quicker than PL defenders, so sadly he is a pointless player to have in a PL side. I hoped last season would have brought him some confidence and belief, but sadly it's quite clear that he's just not up to the level.

THB is a young player struggling, looks very nervous. He didn't get caught out like that last season, in fact he was one of our better ball playing CB's. I'd probably take him out of the firing line for a bit as well.

Fernandes, who is only young and just in this country, is immediately of a better standard to that of Aribo and Smallbone - you can see it from a mile off, even in the warm up he's better.

BBD looks a bit of a carthorse it has to be said, bit of a shithouse though. Although being a shithouse and still losing is a pretty miserable place to be.

A very nice neive display all in all. The playing from the back bollocks got us caught out in the Champ, but the quality wasn't there to punish it, as everyone and their dog said...do the same at this level, with the same players, the mistakes will happen and you'll get punished. There's no refinement about it, or practice at it, you just need better players if you really want to do that. But we don't have good players, so we really shouldn't be exposing them like this. 

The problem isn't passing from the back at all times per-say, but it's the passing 'back' to pass around the back which does it for us. Unnecessary passing. We just need to move it quicker through the midfield and it wouldn't be such a problem, but we seemingly don't have the players to move it quickly.

It's been a very tough lesson thus far, although not really surprising. We've all seen this story before so we know how it ends. Stephens, Bednarek, Aribo, Armstrong trying to play PL football doesn't really work. 

Highlighted. This is exactly right. I like possession football but it comes down to quality on the ball. We don’t have it, especially at the back. Remains to be seen whether the recent additions improve matters. 

[Saint_clark]

13 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

The utter cunt is throwing the players under the bus saying "I don't know why we've passed it around/back in those situations" 

THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED.

Ok, I've calmed down. 

At least if he's going to try and pretend that isn't how he wants to play, that implies he is going to try and change it. 

[egg]

Just now, OttawaSaint said:

Seems like once RM's starting lineup/formation/plan goes awry, he makes subs and the players just say fuck it and play their own way. We loook much better when that happens.

I think there's a bit of that happening. 30+ players to keep happy, and few of them being played to their strengths. He's in danger of losing the changing room as quickly as he's losing the fans. 

If he stays we're down. Sure, he may bring us back up, but we'll go back down again. 

I'm not saying that he needs to go yet, but him going at some point feels inevitable unless he can be less dogmatic to his style and get the best out the players. 

[Saint Matty 76]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

Ok, I've calmed down. 

At least if he's going to try and pretend that isn't how he wants to play, that implies he is going to try and change it. 

Yeah, better than him saying that’s what he wants from us at least!

It’s a bit of a sad reality but after last season I don’t fear relegation any more, if we go down so be it.

Just want to enjoy the matches a little more than today, and I think I will do so with the likes of Fernandes and Dibling being more involved.

(bit of positivity after whining for the last hour)

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

If I can look at a team and say Ugochukwu instead of Smallbone. Archer in for Armstrong and Fernandes for Aribo, then why can't our bloody manager? 

RM has shown massive nativity so far this season. 

I said 0 pts from our first 5 games and I stand by that. 

[LGTL]

It doesn’t take long in this league for managers to lose the plot. It took mad Nate about 25 minutes. Martin has improved on that, and managed 3 games. 

He’ll be gone quite quickly. 

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Yeah, better than him saying that’s what he wants from us at least!

It’s a bit of a sad reality but after last season I don’t fear relegation any more, if we go down so be it.

Just want to enjoy the matches a little more than today, and I think I will do so with the likes of Fernandes and Dibling being more involved.

(bit of positivity after whining for the last hour)

I know "games gone" feels like a bit of a meme these days but it truly does feel like it for me. I dont care if we go down and go down again, I'll enjoy the success if it comes but I don't even expect us to build to anything anymore because there's so much about modern football I dislike.

[S-Clarke]

What I will also add, Brentford aren't world beaters, and whilst their goals were from our mistakes, they did create quite a few more opportunities.

There were a couple of moments where we spent what felt like 20 mins to get to the edge of their box, they nick the ball back and within 1 or 2 quick passes they are at our full back and crossing into the penalty area and having a shot. 2 or 3 passes. That's not long ball, that's not hoofing it, that's just being decisive, quick and sensing the opportunity. We just winced it around for 20 mins to get to the edge of the area, it's painful to watch because it won't provide us enough chances. We will need stacks and stacks and stacks of chances per game to score at this level, so mincing around for 20mins to get it to the edge of the area ain't going to cut it.

As I said, I'm not talking long ball, but quick switches of play, spotting of space, players moving into space etc. All of these things that are food and drink for PL players, but we just want to spend 20 mins passing the ball around each other. That's not brave, it's wimpish behaviour because there's nothing easier than passing between CB's - the oppo will let us do that all game.

Edited August 31 by S-Clarke

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Ok, I've calmed down. 

At least if he's going to try and pretend that isn't how he wants to play, that implies he is going to try and change it. 

Nah, he's just floundering when being questioned.

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, Graffito said:

Highlighted. This is exactly right. I like possession football but it comes down to quality on the ball. We don’t have it, especially at the back. Remains to be seen whether the recent additions improve matters. 

The manager needs to actually select them if they’re going to help up the tempo and stop the Pellegrino type Barclays walking pensioner football. He will have Cornet available so let’s see him replace AA, and no excuse for seeing Will and Aribo starting the next game.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

He didn't say that.....surely.

Blackmore asked him about why the lads from Wednesday, specfically, Dibling and Fernandes didn't start today. Martin rambled on about them playing too many minutes on Wednesday and being fatigued from that match. 

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Nah, he's just floundering when being questioned.

He sounded perfectly composed, and to be honest as if he'd already thought of an answer to the question before it was asked.

[LGTL]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

What I will also add, Brentford aren't world beaters, and whilst their goals were from our mistakes, they did create quite a few more opportunities.

There were a couple of moments where we spent what felt like 20 mins to get to the edge of their box, they nick the ball back and within 1 or 2 quick passes they are at our full back and crossing into the penalty area and having a shot. 2 or 3 passes. That's not long ball, that's not hoofing it, that's just being decisive, quick and sensing the opportunity. We just winced it around for 20 mins to get to the edge of the area, it's painful to watch because it won't provide us enough chances. We will need stacks and stacks and stacks of chances per game to score at this level, so mincing around for 20mins to get it to the edge of the area ain't going to cut it.

As I said, I'm not talking long ball, but quick switches of play, spotting of space, players moving into space etc. All of these things that are food and drink for PL players, but we just want to spend 20 mins passing the ball around each other. That's not brave, it's wimpish behaviour because there's nothing easier than passing between CB's - the oppo will let us do that all game.

Brentford and Forest will both be down with us. Neither are anymore than bottom 6/7 which is even worse. 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

What I will also add, Brentford aren't world beaters, and whilst their goals were from our mistakes, they did create quite a few more opportunities.

There were a couple of moments where we spent what felt like 20 mins to get to the edge of their box, they nick the ball back and within 1 or 2 quick passes they are at our full back and crossing into the penalty area and having a shot. 2 or 3 passes. That's not long ball, that's not hoofing it, that's just being decisive, quick and sensing the opportunity. We just winced it around for 20 mins to get to the edge of the area, it's painful to watch because it won't provide us enough chances. We will need stacks and stacks and stacks of chances per game to score at this level, so mincing around for 20mins to get it to the edge of the area ain't going to cut it.

As I said, I'm not talking long ball, but quick switches of play, spotting of space, players moving into space etc. All of these things that are food and drink for PL players, but we just want to spend 20 mins passing the ball around each other.

Lots of good points made here that I suspect most of us would agree with.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

40 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

I think his next league team selection will tell us a couple of things. Firstly whether we have a chance of staying up and secondly whether he is likely to be still in charge come Christmas. 

Okay, Dibling gave it his all midweek and maybe wasn't ready for a full 90 minutes today, but you're right, the team selection against Man U will tell us what RM has learned.

AA was ineffective missed a run in on goal and missed tap in. A striker can't be that wasteful and to be fair he was taken off, but he should never have been starting. Smallbone was caught out a couple of times.

THB needs to sharpen up. And as for Stephens. Maybe ABK needs to be reintegrated in to the team.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

He sounded perfectly composed, and to be honest as if he'd already thought of an answer to the question before it was asked.

I thought that as well. Almost like he was reading from a script or auto cue

[bpsaint]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

I bet he vapes like a cunt as well.

And his Starbucks order is a decaf soy latte.