Everton 1-1 (5-6p) Saints - Match Thread

[St Chalet]

36 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Just watched the replay and AMC looks to quite a bit off his line with both feet when Young strikes it.

Anytime it happens against Everton I just think Adrian Heath 84

[danjosaint]

Looked pen to me as well, Dibling definitely got to the ball 1st before Young took him out

[maysie]

1 minute ago, obelisk said:

Anyone else think that Dibling was fouled in the box in the last minute? Looked a penalty to me but the ref bottled it. Haven't seen a replay.

I thought Dibling may have hit the ball against Young as the trajectory looked weird for Dibling having toed it past him. 

[maysie]

On Dibling, obviously a massive talent. The run before the shot over was great but once he got in the position he had to pass it, Stewart was unmarked in the middle of the goal. I guess you’ll get that everyone now and then with an 18 year old and sure he’ll learn from those situations.

[St Chalet]

We’ve had a lot more positives than points in the league this season. Many a Saints team would have crumbled on penalties in years gone by but the boys took their shots until one of the opposition hit McCarthy.

Was great to see Lallana justify his year contract in 45 minutes and the confidence of our pen takers.

We need to be more clinical in open play, but I think we could be ok based on tonight..

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

One of Fernandes and Lallana need to be on the pitch at all times, they both ooze class and composure.

And there are some right miserable fuckers on here!

I wonder if it would be too adventurous to play Fernandes, Lallana and Dibling together. 

Ramsdale 

Sugawara Bednarek THB kwp

Downes lesley 

Dibling Fernandes Lallana 

Archer/bbd/Stewart

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Anyone else think that Dibling was fouled in the box in the last minute? Looked a penalty to me but the ref bottled it. Haven't seen a replay.

Not enough for a penalty.

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I wonder if it would be too adventurous to play Fernandes, Lallana and Dibling together. 

Ramsdale 

Sugawara Bednarek THB kwp

Downes lesley 

Dibling Fernandes Lallana 

Archer/bbd/Stewart

With both Downes and Les holding, I don't see why not. That would definitely be my 3 starting attacking midfielders 

Edited Tuesday at 21:39 by trousers

[Harry_SFC]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I wonder if it would be too adventurous to play Fernandes, Lallana and Dibling together. 

Ramsdale 

Sugawara Bednarek THB kwp

Downes lesley 

Dibling Fernandes Lallana 

Archer/bbd/Stewart

Only thing you would say about that is a lack of any real pace on the forward positions. I liked the look of Cornet tonight. Put some promising balls into the box but no decent striker on the end of them. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

With both Downes and Les holding, I don't see why not. That would definitely be my 3 starting attacking midfielders 

They're our best three attacking players for me. We still don't have a proper striker up top but it would give us a much better chance of success. Replace lallana with Fraser after 45 minutes and Dibling with Cornet after 60.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Harry_SFC said:

Only thing you would say about that is a lack of any real pace on the forward positions. I liked the look of Cornet tonight. Put some promising balls into the box but no decent striker on the end of them. 

It's a good point but you could maybe bring him on at half time maybe. 

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I wonder if it would be too adventurous to play Fernandes, Lallana and Dibling together. 

Ramsdale 

Sugawara Bednarek THB kwp

Downes lesley 

Dibling Fernandes Lallana 

Archer/bbd/Stewart

Lallana looked comfortable enough against a very poor Everton team in a cup game, for 45 minutes. I’m not sure I’d be starting him based on that. For me it’s two threes with:

Les - Downes - Fernandes

Cornet/BBD - Archer - Fraser

With Dibling in and out of the mix, along with Lallana and Stewart.

[saintant]

17 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

One of Fernandes and Lallana need to be on the pitch at all times, they both ooze class and composure.

And there are some right miserable fuckers on here!

Agree although Fernandes did play two really sloppy passes that put us in trouble. Generally though he was excellent. Lallana still has that sharp football brain and it's a pity his legs are going.

[hypochondriac]

Interesting that Martin mentioned the possibility of losing his job tonight. I reckon he's aware of some of the pressure. 

[karlb79]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

Agree although Fernandes did play two really sloppy passes that put us in trouble. Generally though he was excellent. Lallana still has that sharp football brain and it's a pity his legs are going.

I wonder if Martin took Lallana off at half time with a view to him starting on Saturday.

[Wade Garrett]

Great penalties.  Well done Saints.

[saintant]

17 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I wonder if it would be too adventurous to play Fernandes, Lallana and Dibling together. 

Ramsdale 

Sugawara Bednarek THB kwp

Downes lesley 

Dibling Fernandes Lallana 

Archer/bbd/Stewart

Good line up and formation but not one RM would consider. I'd probably play Lallana central and Fernandes on the left. You've got plenty of creativity and players who can keep the ball and play on the half turn plus the security provided by the double pivot. 

[St Chalet]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Interesting that Martin mentioned the possibility of losing his job tonight. I reckon he's aware of some of the pressure. 

So he should be. It’s a results business not philosophy. I am sure his new contract will cushion the blow should he get the axe.

His (our) only hope is that Ross, BBD or Archer prove themself as a goal scorer pre transfer window.

[Chris cooper]

3 minutes ago, karlb79 said:

I wonder if Martin took Lallana off at half time with a view to him starting on Saturday.

Hope so .. he showed his experience.. shifting between the lines .. coming short to recieve then pinching space all over the middle of the park .. was sceptical but definitely can do a job for us .. love to see him , ferdy & dibbers infront of downes & big les 

[Hawkswood]

26 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I wonder if it would be too adventurous to play Fernandes, Lallana and Dibling together. 

Ramsdale 

Sugawara Bednarek THB kwp

Downes lesley 

Dibling Fernandes Lallana 

Archer/bbd/Stewart

Still don't like bednarek but the.rest of that I would take. All our best players on the pitch and with some balance as well.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

Still don't like bednarek but the.rest of that I would take. All our best players on the pitch and with some balance as well.

Who would you play in place of bednarek? 

[egg]

36 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

Still think there’s a decent side in our squad but it’s frustrating to watch Russ take so long to figure out who should and shouldn’t be in it, and that it’s not a cardinal sin to go long and wide when we’re penned in.

Jack’s a great guy but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we looked tighter and more assured without him back there. Dropping THB and keeping him in was ridiculous.

It was nice to have some attacking width and pace with Cornet and Fraser, but BBD needs to either be more central or on the bench.

On form, dropping THB for the Man Utd game was the right call. However, dropping Stephens after his shocker would have been a no brainer, but his red card has forced RM's hand anyway. 

Agreed re the rest of your post. I'm convinced that there is a half decent team amongst our bloated squad, but I'm not convinced that RM knows what it is, or that his approach will get the best out it.  

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Interesting that Martin mentioned the possibility of losing his job tonight. I reckon he's aware of some of the pressure. 

What's he said?

My take aways from tonight:

- Happy with Macca as our cup keeper, despite occasional shaky moments.

- Undecided on Cornet. Glimpses of promise, but some frustrating moments.

- BBD. Meh.

- Lallana. An old prick, but a classy prick.

- Dibling - he's alright.

- A weird Saints fan behind me spent most of the match arguing with a 12ish year old in the home end. Was a bit weird.

- Even weirder (which is an achievement) was the Pompey fan who presumably paid for a ticket, only to get kicked out after about 15 mins.

- I'm sure the Everton pitch isn't flat. Definitely got a bit of a camber.

 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

What's he said?

My take aways from tonight:

- Happy with Macca as our cup keeper, despite occasional shaky moments.

- Undecided on Cornet. Glimpses of promise, but some frustrating moments.

- BBD. Meh.

- Lallana. An old prick, but a classy prick.

- Dibling - he's alright.

- A weird Saints fan behind me spent most of the match arguing with a 12ish year old in the home end. Was a bit weird.

- Even weirder (which is an achievement) was the Pompey fan who presumably paid for a ticket, only to get kicked out after about 15 mins.

- I'm sure the Everton pitch isn't flat. Definitely got a bit of a camber.

 

Martin on Armel Bella-Kotchap not featuring tonight: “I'm paid to do the best job I can for Southampton Football Club. And if it doesn't go very well I will lose my job. So I then pick a team that I think is best to win.” 

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Martin on Armel Bella-Kotchap not featuring tonight: “I'm paid to do the best job I can for Southampton Football Club. And if it doesn't go very well I will lose my job. So I then pick a team that I think is best to win.” 

Ask a straight question, get a very curvy answer....

[Disco Stu]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Martin on Armel Bella-Kotchap not featuring tonight: “I'm paid to do the best job I can for Southampton Football Club. And if it doesn't go very well I will lose my job. So I then pick a team that I think is best to win.” 

He thought Nathan Wood would do a better job than Armel Bella-Kotchap? Based on performances I've seen so far, Wood should be behind Bella-Kotchap and Edwards.

Edited Tuesday at 22:28 by Disco Stu

[UpweySaint]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

He thought Nathan Wood would do a better job than Armel Bella-Kotchap?

It seems clear Martin has an issue with ABK - plenty of rumours about attitude and application. If you feel the pressure is on I can understand wanting to keep a risk averse approach. Rightly or wrongly ABK feels like a risk. He has a high ceiling and more pedigree than most, if not all, of our other options but there is a value in team unity and spirit particularly when we know we are likely to have a very though season ahead of us.

 

[Disco Stu]

1 minute ago, UpweySaint said:

It seems clear Martin has an issue with ABK - plenty of rumours about attitude and application. If you feel the pressure is on I can understand wanting to keep a risk averse approach. Rightly or wrongly ABK feels like a risk. He has a high ceiling and more pedigree than most, if not all, of our other options but there is a value in team unity and spirit particularly when we know we are likely to have a very though season ahead of us.

 

I would understand if he played Edwards but Wood is yet to have a good game even in pre-season. Wood didn't seem like the risk averse option to me.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

I would understand if he played Edwards but Wood is yet to have a good game even in pre-season. Wood didn't seem like the risk averse option to me.

It's the manager reverting to the players he knows presumably. 

[Bad Wolf]

I'm guessing we've gone through despite RM?

[Bad Wolf]

22 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I would understand if he played Edwards but Wood is yet to have a good game even in pre-season. Wood didn't seem like the risk averse option to me.

Wood was 6/10 against Cardiff and one of the home friendlies he was excellent.

[Orkney Saint]

Some nice football played, mainly in non-threatening areas of the pitch. A lot of changes to the team, so you could argue that the performance was reasonable considering the lack of playing time for the starting 11. Everton also had a lot of changes and were poor. They still created the more clear cut chances though, despite their performance and lack of possession.

Our lack of creativity or threat in the final third is still our weakest area. For all the possession we often have in matches, we don’t create nowhere near enough chances. Too many passive/negative passes from, I assume, a want to keep hold of possession. Either that or a lack of players who are capable of picking out an attacking/incisive pass. 

[Disco Stu]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Wood was 6/10 against Cardiff and one of the home friendlies he was excellent.

Cardiff wasn't a good day for our defenders especially given the quality of opposition.

Wood looks indecisive on the ball and commits far too many fouls. He's probably our least mobile defender too. Edwards put in stronger performances in pre-season and proved he could spot a pass although I can't see either one putting much pressure on Bednarek, THB or Stephens this season. Shame ABK is out of the picture.

Edited Wednesday at 01:51 by Disco Stu

[Mixedkebab]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I wonder if it would be too adventurous to play Fernandes, Lallana and Dibling together. 

Ramsdale 

Sugawara Bednarek THB kwp

Downes lesley 

Dibling Fernandes Lallana 

Archer/bbd/Stewart

Not at all if Downes sits in, Lesley gives us more cover than Smallbone as well

But Lallana surely will only give us an hour maximum even when fit, so Fraser could still play out left, wouldn’t complain if Taylor was LB either.

Rather see BBD or Stewart central when fit, we have to have physical presence up front.

 

 

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

4 hours ago, Saint NL said:

The booos when Ashley Young was announced 😂😂

YES!!! 😄 
That gave me such a good feeling, because I have hated A. Young for decades. Dirty, filthy player.
To see him miss his penalty meaning Everton out was the dream scenario for me.

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Lallana looked comfortable enough against a very poor Everton team in a cup game, for 45 minutes. I’m not sure I’d be starting him based on that. For me it’s two threes with:

Les - Downes - Fernandes

Cornet/BBD - Archer - Fraser

With Dibling in and out of the mix, along with Lallana and Stewart.

Happy for Stewart who scored in the penalty shoot out. Imagine his head ache had he missed.....

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

Jack Stephens' ban (blessing in disguise?) means THB is back vs Ipswich. Thank you God.
THB had a good game, scored a good goal , scored on his pen as well, and wore the armband. 

3 hours ago, St Chalet said:

Anytime it happens against Everton I just think Adrian Heath 84

"

Posted 3 hours ago

  3 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Just watched the replay and AMC looks to quite a bit off his line with both feet when Young strikes it.

"Anytime it happens against Everton I just think Adrian Heath 84". YES. Thank you sir.

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

3 hours ago, St Chalet said:

Anytime it happens against Everton I just think Adrian Heath 84

Couldn't agree more. I remember that FA cup overtime goal against us from from "the Jap" (Adrian f*cking Heath) too - back in 84'. Still pissed off about it, so if AMC had both feet in front of his goal line before making the save from Assley Young, without the ref noticing it, it makes the save even sweeter.
I LOVE beating Everton. A club I absolutely HATE.

[gio1saints]

Few thoughts ;

1. Lallana was a class above everyone on pitch. His vocal leadership was just another excellent ( and necessary) added extra. He can do it all- makes himself available wherever and his ball receipt, control and release is invariably excellent. Knows when to be where and how to play wherever he is. Needs young strong legs (like Les) next to him to really make it work though. 

2. Les is looking good to me.  He feels reassuring like he will win most his 50-50’s in MF - which is not something I’ve always been used to. A starter for me v Ipswich. His physicality buys our other players extra milliseconds of time to make those special passes. 
3. Mateus is a high ceiling attacking mf. Looks technically excellent clearly wants to get on with it and play progressive football. Speeds up our sometimes pedestrian game. 
4. Just like Tyler - who is why you pay to watch Saints play. He is our great hope. Must be Starter v Ipswich. 
5. The return of THB. So happy for him, the armband, the goal, the performance, the penalty, the win. Fair play mate after a bit uncertain start. Straight back into the team as starter on Saturday. 
6. Thank you for the Pen save and the other good save Alex- BUT- their goal was all on you not clearing that corner. 
7. BBD, RF, MC and AA - lot of running from AA and RF as usual but id like to think they all have more to give in terms of quality meaningful impact. No one really said I must start v Ipswich on those performances so I’d be tempted to go CA from the left RS central and AA from the right Saturday. 
8. CT provided some quality balls and experienced know how. 
 

My suggested Team for Saturday(433) 

1. AR 

2. KWP

3. CT 

4 JB 

5. THB 

6. LU

7. AA 

8. FD

9. RS 

10 TD 

11. CA

Nb KWP at left back. 

[Farmer Saint]

8 hours ago, The Kraken said:

I quoted the source website, it’s all on there. Go find it yourself. Or just keep believing you’re right, whatever.

 

8 hours ago, egg said:

Shit this is boring. He often played CF, it's his main position. 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ben-brereton-diaz/profil/spieler/426192

 

 

8 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Whole lot of "CF" for Blackburn there.

It is very boring, but the problem is that CF and IF are not differentiated, but they are very different positions. That's the point. It's like saying that both Smallbone and Downes play Centre-mid - you're all thinking far too basic.

If we're playing a front 3 he'd have to play as a traditional number 9, hold the ball up etc, like Che did last year. That's not what he's done in the past. If we want him to work we need to play him up top in a support role off the main striker (Stewart or Onuachu) or go to a very narrow 3 with him on the left (although that just wouldn't work). 

 

Either way, decent win last night. 

Edited Wednesday at 05:54 by Farmer Saint

[UpweySaint]

7 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I would understand if he played Edwards but Wood is yet to have a good game even in pre-season. Wood didn't seem like the risk averse option to me.

Fair point, Edwards looks marginally better for me than Woods so far and I think he looks to have more about him longer term so I can see an argument for Edwards over Woods. ABK is a different story for different reasons. Clearly a talent but unlikely to reach it here, it’s a shame for all involved summer moves broke down. I genuinely thought him and Salisu had the potential for a really top class CB pairing but our relegation season and/or general scepticism has pushed me into the ‘no dickheads’ all blacks style thinking. Our team in the relegation season were really hard to like. I know Russ splits the crowd but for the most part I think most of us actually liked the team and the evidence of a team spirit last season. I think that will still be very important this season as it will be a slog for sure even if we do enough to stay up!

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I'm guessing we've gone through despite RM?

No chance.  He superbly masterminded an astonishing 1-1 draw where we had circa 70% possession (extra credit for that, for sure) and ensured we won emphatically in the penalty shoot-out lottery.  His genius, cunning and guile knows no bounds.

We're gonna piss this league.

[Charlie Wayman]

7 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

He thought Nathan Wood would do a better job than Armel Bella-Kotchap? Based on performances I've seen so far, Wood should be behind Bella-Kotchap and Edwards.

Based on his "performance" last night, Wood should be behind the team bus in the luggage trailer

[Roo1976]

7 hours ago, Orkney Saint said:

Some nice football played, mainly in non-threatening areas of the pitch. A lot of changes to the team, so you could argue that the performance was reasonable considering the lack of playing time for the starting 11. Everton also had a lot of changes and were poor. They still created the more clear cut chances though, despite their performance and lack of possession.

Our lack of creativity or threat in the final third is still our weakest area. For all the possession we often have in matches, we don’t create nowhere near enough chances. Too many passive/negative passes from, I assume, a want to keep hold of possession. Either that or a lack of players who are capable of picking out an attacking/incisive pass. 

fln the passes,imo were passing with no real purpose and it really ticks the (what the fuck button). Theres no sense of urgency to move up the field at pace ,even though we were loosing (yet again). From what i saw last night we came under pressure and started to pass deeper and make hurried passes in very testing situations ,because were not decisive enough to play with  flair of fluidity. Our players seem very one footed, and similarly very blocked in with limited vision.Passing for passing meh, we need progression and creativity ,also some luck but move the ball with purpose. Once we were pressed panic set in and we played deeper to try and make space ............................stop fucking around.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

Few thoughts ;

1. Lallana was a class above everyone on pitch. His vocal leadership was just another excellent ( and necessary) added extra. He can do it all- makes himself available wherever and his ball receipt, control and release is invariably excellent. Knows when to be where and how to play wherever he is. Needs young strong legs (like Les) next to him to really make it work though. 

2. Les is looking good to me.  He feels reassuring like he will win most his 50-50’s in MF - which is not something I’ve always been used to. A starter for me v Ipswich. His physicality buys our other players extra milliseconds of time to make those special passes. 
3. Mateus is a high ceiling attacking mf. Looks technically excellent clearly wants to get on with it and play progressive football. Speeds up our sometimes pedestrian game. 
4. Just like Tyler - who is why you pay to watch Saints play. He is our great hope. Must be Starter v Ipswich. 
5. The return of THB. So happy for him, the armband, the goal, the performance, the penalty, the win. Fair play mate after a bit uncertain start. Straight back into the team as starter on Saturday. 
6. Thank you for the Pen save and the other good save Alex- BUT- their goal was all on you not clearing that corner. 
7. BBD, RF, MC and AA - lot of running from AA and RF as usual but id like to think they all have more to give in terms of quality meaningful impact. No one really said I must start v Ipswich on those performances so I’d be tempted to go CA from the left RS central and AA from the right Saturday. 
8. CT provided some quality balls and experienced know how. 
 

My suggested Team for Saturday(433) 

1. AR 

2. KWP

3. CT 

4 JB 

5. THB 

6. LU

7. AA 

8. FD

9. RS 

10 TD 

11. CA

Nb KWP at left back. 

Too many initials 😂 I need more coffee 

[suewhistle]

Just now, notnowcato said:

Too many initials 😂 I need more coffee tea..

Yeah! CA?

[Saint NL]

We might have shot ourselves in the foot here. The Everton fans were not impressed with Dyches subs and booed them. That's normally a signal that the managers time is nearly done.

They'll fire him, get Moyes in and turn things around. Or something.

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

Few thoughts ;

1. Lallana was a class above everyone on pitch. His vocal leadership was just another excellent ( and necessary) added extra. He can do it all- makes himself available wherever and his ball receipt, control and release is invariably excellent. Knows when to be where and how to play wherever he is. Needs young strong legs (like Les) next to him to really make it work though. 

2. Les is looking good to me.  He feels reassuring like he will win most his 50-50’s in MF - which is not something I’ve always been used to. A starter for me v Ipswich. His physicality buys our other players extra milliseconds of time to make those special passes. 
3. Mateus is a high ceiling attacking mf. Looks technically excellent clearly wants to get on with it and play progressive football. Speeds up our sometimes pedestrian game. 
4. Just like Tyler - who is why you pay to watch Saints play. He is our great hope. Must be Starter v Ipswich. 
5. The return of THB. So happy for him, the armband, the goal, the performance, the penalty, the win. Fair play mate after a bit uncertain start. Straight back into the team as starter on Saturday. 
6. Thank you for the Pen save and the other good save Alex- BUT- their goal was all on you not clearing that corner. 
7. BBD, RF, MC and AA - lot of running from AA and RF as usual but id like to think they all have more to give in terms of quality meaningful impact. No one really said I must start v Ipswich on those performances so I’d be tempted to go CA from the left RS central and AA from the right Saturday. 
8. CT provided some quality balls and experienced know how. 
 

My suggested Team for Saturday(433) 

1. AR 

2. KWP

3. CT 

4 JB 

5. THB 

6. LU

7. AA 

8. FD

9. RS 

10 TD 

11. CA

Nb KWP at left back. 

I'd agree with most of that. Lallana can offer us something like Christian Eriksson for Man Utd, help control the game and lead theyounger players, fitness will be an issue.

No complaints with line up last night, nice to still be in the Cup but more importantly gave the team a lift, looked like they were buzzing at the end, important to take that into Saturday 

Still don't know where our goals will come from though. 

[Whitey Grandad]

35 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Yeah! CA?

Cameron Archer perhaps.

It took me a while.

[Whitey Grandad]

18 minutes ago, Football Special said:

I'd agree with most of that. Lallana can offer us something like Christian Eriksson for Man Utd, help control the game and lead theyounger players, fitness will be an issue.

No complaints with line up last night, nice to still be in the Cup but more importantly gave the team a lift, looked like they were buzzing at the end, important to take that into Saturday 

Still don't know where our goals will come from though. 

Who needs goals when you can keep possession?