Saints 0-1 Forest - Match Thread

[saintant]

21 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Thought we were second best virtually everywhere today.

First time I’ve really seen Dibling and he looked good. Fernandes looked ok and has a decent eye for a quick pass. That’s about the only positives I’ll take from that game 

Agree. It's a sobering thought that all the focus has been about bringing in a decent goalkeeper - after today's shambles we are clearly lacking all over the pitch. Maybe a couple of the new signings can help but we know that RM takes his time to introduce newbies and is more likely to stick with the bulk of the team so the same rubbish will result.

[Harry_SFC]

Dibling, Fernandes and Archer all looked pretty decent when they came on. AA, Smallbone, Aribo, Stephens all need replacing IMO. 

[saintant]

13 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

And you know that after 2 matches. Well done 

Let's see how the season unfolds but he needs to up his game and be less pedantic.

[Dan Johnson]

Tough Watch.

switching to the 5 at the back worked for us at the end of last season, made us harder to break down, got us through the playoffs after a thumping by Leicester, however I thought today the formation smothered our work.

When you play 3 centre backs, 1 CB has to step into midfield in possession or a striker has to come deep (like che used to) otherwise your midfielders are overrun, that was the case until their goal and we switched to a back 4.

One of our three centre backs never stepped up, the 2 front players were so so wide and never dropped inside. So we looked cluttered and slow in possession as our only option and free man being a ball back to the CBs or along the back 3, having the 2 strikers out wide also pushed the wing backs inside and into traffic... again slowing us down in possession.

We never looked like scoring until the formation change.

Few players also looked a bit lost\out of their depth today, Smallbone, Armstrong. lets hope it was more down to the formation than the levels.

Dibling looks a positive 
 

[Disco Stu]

2 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

That little 5 minute rush of subs where RM did all he could to keep Stephens on the pitch was very strange. Take off a full back, move Capt Jack to fullback. Sees the Forest winger tear him a new one so brings on a proper full back and moves Capt Jack out of harms way. Just creepy.

Blackmore needs to ask him directly why he thinks taking off a fullback to move Stephens to fullback makes any sense. 

[S-Clarke]

It had all the hallmarks of Wigan at home on our last promotion to this league. Big fan fare return, expectation against a lesser PL side, and it's a complete damp squib. 

I didn't think we played well at any point. We looked incredibly nervous in the first half, we tried to force things and kept giving the ball away - it was food and drink for Forest for 90% of that match.

They fully deserved their win and there's not really much else to say. When you oly have 1 attempt on target, which is straight at the keeper, then there's a problem. Way too passive and reactive on and off the pitch. Best performers for us were Downes, KWP and credit to McCarthy too who kept the score down, which I didn't expect to be saying.

It's quite a wakeup call in the sense that Forest are one of the weaker sides, yet the players they have in their attack (Hudson Odoi, Elanga, Gibbs White etc) are massive levels above anything we can put out. Ourselves, Leicester and Ipswich are going to find that.

We lack a bit of magic in that final third, someone you can give the ball to and get fans off their seats. We don't have that player. We need a decent couple of additions in the final few days, as it's going to be quite a painful season trying to watch Armstrong threaten at this level on his own.

[derry]

The big problem for me is the constant recycling especially backwards. All we are doing is allowing teams to get into defensive lines and snuff us out. For a start three centre backs plus three non attacking midfielders is neutering us especially putting BBD and AA on opposite wings. Martin needs to think again. In my opinion four at the back doesn't mean making a place for Stephens. I think if KWP stays. there is an argument to play Sugawara, THB and Bednarek, Taylor. Play a middle four Armstrong, Downes, Fernandez, KWP. BBD and Archer. If we are going to lose regularly 1-0, especially as we can't stop any team from creating a chance and playing negatively unable to score we might as well go shit or bust. Otherwise ditch the possession myth and play on the break. Aribo is so one footed he's a liability. I can't believe he has been a professional for years. What the hell do the coaches do all day. Make him practice with his right foot and tie a crushed coke tin on his left instep.

[SouSaint]

5 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Dibling, Fernandes and Archer all looked pretty decent when they came on. AA, Smallbone, Aribo, Stephens all need replacing IMO. 

Did he even touch the ball? 

[gio1saints]

I thought Matheus fitted in very well. Tyler was excellent. KWP very good. Yuki was good. Both our CB’s ok. AA ran so much but no end result today. Probably disappointing. BBD just hugged his wing mostly and did a few things but he certainly as not got the legs/ cannot run past and around his RB. Always pops inside. Will very poor. Joe and Flynn tried but bettered by opposite numbers. None of our MF could do an astute type surge apart from when Tyler came on. Overall I’d give us a 5.5/10 and Forest a 6.5. RM tactically outfought by his opposite number and that was the main difference imo. That and the extra athleticism and physicality of forest v us.,

[david in sweden]

not having seen the match ( from this distance) the stats would suggest that despite the high possession %

perhaps we lacked creativity in midfield ?...and then having only 5 shots  ( only  ne target ) to their 23 (!). 

 

The fact that we only conceded one goal is a saving grace, but we need our strike force to get their shooting boots on 

(perhaps a change of boot sponsor ?)...but there must be some goals coming from the dozen or more new signings....

 

Hopefully we may see some positive improvement v. Cardiff midweek. 

[SambaMaverick]

Selling Charly is such a brain-dead move, just tell Martin he's got to actually work with him instead of importing one of his cookie cutter pals

[Saint Billy]

For me RM has to move away from some of the old guard. Early days I know but Dibling looks special and I was also impressed with Fernandes who looked sharp and composed unlike some of the regulars. We need a more positive approach and I cannot see the likes of Smallbone, Aribo, Stephens having it

 

[Challenger]

Turgid, uncompetitive crap from which yet again no lessons will get learnt both on and off the pitch.

[scumbag]

Russball, of which I am obviously fully indoctrinated to, does seem to suck the atmosphere out of a ground. That's one thing it certainly is successful at.

[Harry_SFC]

9 minutes ago, SouSaint said:

Did he even touch the ball? 

He should've had an assist if Edozie actually knew what he was doing. 

[Forester]

Lots of wrist slitting on here.  Will try and bring a bit of balance, albeit I am as frustrated at our lack of creativity as anyone:

- we are averaging one goal conceded after two games.  If we maintain that it would be excellent.  Last time in this league we needed to score three goals to win a game

- while it necessitates taking up a playing position, the three centre backs make us look fairly solid.  If we retain KWP we are well stocked in the full back positions

- it looks like we are about to upgrade our goalkeeper position, albeit McCarthy did just fine today.  

- Downes looked excellent today after the first fifteen minutes

And so there are some positives, despite how everyone feels tonight.  Last time we were promoted I recall we lost our first four games.

 

However, we need to add a cutting edge and creativity in final third without doubt.  I feel we should try to bring in a target man (or keep Tall Paul) as an option, not always from the start.  Stewart is unlikely to be fit enough after the delay.  And we also need to find a more productive wide man than current options.

We may only need to win nine games this season and collect a few draws.  The margins are tight, and Everton, Leicester and Ipswich all look likely to struggle to do that too.  Long way to go

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, scumbag said:

Russball, of which I am obviously fully indoctrinated to, does seem to suck the atmosphere out of a ground. That's one thing it certainly is successful at.

Except for all the times it hasn't of course.

 

Anyway... just weren't good enough on the day. It's not a reflection on anything or anyone, it's just a day when you're new to a league and a slightly more experienced and powerful side beat us. 

[Whitey Grandad]

13 minutes ago, SouSaint said:

Did he even touch the ball? 

It bounced off him on one occasion. 

[Harry_SFC]

8 minutes ago, scumbag said:

Russball, of which I am obviously fully indoctrinated to, does seem to suck the atmosphere out of a ground. That's one thing it certainly is successful at.

Is the lack of creativity down to personnel or the tactics? I'd say a bit of both, which is a huge problem.

Edited August 24 by Harry_SFC

[PerthshireSaint]

Could be worse. I came from Scotland for this 🙄

[Zorba]

Forest were poor. We were worse. We have nothing up front. KWP is head and shoulders above everyone else. Subs looked ok for the short time they were on. Rest of the season will be a hard watch.

[West end Saints]

3 minutes ago, Forester said:

Lots of wrist slitting on here.  Will try and bring a bit of balance, albeit I am as frustrated at our lack of creativity as anyone:

- we are averaging one goal conceded after two games.  If we maintain that it would be excellent.  Last time in this league we needed to score three goals to win a game

- while it necessitates taking up a playing position, the three centre backs make us look fairly solid.  If we retain KWP we are well stocked in the full back positions

- it looks like we are about to upgrade our goalkeeper position, albeit McCarthy did just fine today.  

- Downes looked excellent today after the first fifteen minutes

And so there are some positives, despite how everyone feels tonight.  Last time we were promoted I recall we lost our first four games.

 

However, we need to add a cutting edge and creativity in final third without doubt.  I feel we should try to bring in a target man (or keep Tall Paul) as an option, not always from the start.  Stewart is unlikely to be fit enough after the delay.  And we also need to find a more productive wide man than current options.

We may only need to win nine games this season and collect a few draws.  The margins are tight, and Everton, Leicester and Ipswich all look likely to struggle to do that too.  Long way to go

Agree with most, but thought Downes far from his best. First half he was misplacing passed, or just behind Smallbone / Aribo which didn't help them.

Thought him and Aribo lacked their usual spark and energy to move play.

Forwards too static too.

[Patches O Houlihan]

31 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I know the lowest points ever in a premier league season is derby with 11 I'm sure we can break that record though 😂

Where's that bedwetting emoji when we need it? Come on @stevegrant pull your finger out! 

Edited August 24 by Patches O Houlihan

[Badger]

11 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

For me RM has to move away from some of the old guard. Early days I know but Dibling looks special and I was also impressed with Fernandes who looked sharp and composed unlike some of the regulars. We need a more positive approach and I cannot see the likes of Smallbone, Aribo, Stephens having it

 

Move away from some of the old guard, but I can understand him wanting to maintain a nucleus and team spirit. The trouble is that the players from last season (KWP and Downes aside) are not up to it, compared to the nucleus from the Adkins promotion ( Fonte, Lambert, Schneiderlin) although even then some of the Championship squad were soon ditched. 
 

[beatlesaint]

10 minutes ago, PerthshireSaint said:

Could be worse. I came from Scotland for this 🙄

Well the lady next to me came from California so think yourself lucky ! 😅 

[hypochondriac]

Basically we aren't a premier league team at the moment. Either we bring in the goalie, a couple of new players in attack, play the new players and hope they are good enough - Fernandes and lesley - or we go down. Crucially we need a focal point in attack and we need to not play five at the back at home. We need to actually attack and cause team problems. Forest will be one of the weaker teams we play this year and worryingly they didn't look overly troubled by us. If we lose to Ipswich then I'm not sure where our first points or even our first goal is going to come from. 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Move away from some of the old guard, but I can understand him wanting to maintain a nucleus and team spirit. The trouble is that the players from last season (KWP and Downes aside) are not up to it, compared to the nucleus from the Adkins promotion ( Fonte, Lambert, Schneiderlin) although even then some of the Championship squad were soon ditched. 
 

Keeping the nucleus means keeping kwp, THB, Bednarek, Downes and Armstrong. That's half a team who are possibly up to it. The rest of them are squad players at best (maybe even Armstrong if he can't prove himself at this level.) 

[macca155]

23 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

That little 5 minute rush of subs where RM did all he could to keep Stephens on the pitch was very strange. Take off a full back, move Capt Jack to fullback. Sees the Forest winger tear him a new one so brings on a proper full back and moves Capt Jack out of harms way. Just creepy.

That's because Stephens was the one defender who wasn't losing his head. He isn't top level Prem defender, doubt anyone would say that, but he does at least have experience at this level.He knows what he's doing.  He was covering for KWP (what on earth was his role) in the 1st half.

With THB having a bad day RM needed him in the middle.

The whole sub thing felt and looked like a bit of panic to me. In contrast Santo knew exactly what he was doing.

[LGTL]

It’s almost like a team full of championship players and a championship manager will get you back there pretty quickly, especially when we have that unfair disadvantage of playing against 11 men all game. 

Armstrong, Stephens, Smallbone etc in the PL, do me a favour. 

Edited August 24 by LGTL

[Badger]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Keeping the nucleus means keeping kwp, THB, Bednarek, Downes and Armstrong. That's half a team who are possibly up to it. The rest of them are squad players at best (maybe even Armstrong if he can't prove himself at this level.) 

Yes, have also to factor in that most of those playing at this level before weren’t up to it (including Bednarek, and Aribo, who wasn’t even a regular starter last season). 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, LGTL said:

It’s almost like a team full of championship players will get you back there pretty quickly, especially when we have that unfair disadvantage of playing against 11 men all game. 

Armstrong, Stephens, Smallbone etc in the PL, do me a favour. 

I'm not sure even the likes of BBD and Archer are proven prem players. We need a ruthless attitude if we want to stay up. I'm not sure we've signed the required quality to be honest. Maybe they will surprise me in the next week. 

Edited August 24 by hypochondriac

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm not sure even the likes of BBD and Archer are proven prem players. We need a ruthless attitude if we want to stay up. I'm not sure we've signed the required quality to be honest. Maybe they will surprise me in the next week. 

Let's be honest, we are going to have one hell of a team to win the championship next season.

[FarehamSaintJames]

Five at the back with no attacking threat against a team we should be competing with is unacceptable.

Simple as that.

[Saint_clark]

45 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

That little 5 minute rush of subs where RM did all he could to keep Stephens on the pitch was very strange. Take off a full back, move Capt Jack to fullback. Sees the Forest winger tear him a new one so brings on a proper full back and moves Capt Jack out of harms way. Just creepy.

Fucking sick and tired of Martin's obvious bias towards British "lads" with beards and banter galore. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Thought we were second best virtually everywhere today.

First time I’ve really seen Dibling and he looked good. Fernandes looked ok and has a decent eye for a quick pass. That’s about the only positives I’ll take from that game 

Second best to a very average Forest team. We are going to need to pick up points against these teams, yet we could have been out there all night and not troubled their keeper. 

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm not convinced Martinball fits the Premier League.

I’m convinced that it doesn’t. Today was Russball at its worst. 

[AlexLaw76]

The shoe-horn needs not be in the team.

we need to drop the 3 at the back bollox.

we should have Les and Flynn in the middle, with someone more forward facing ahead, with 3 forwards. 
 

The absolute mess today really showed up the deficiencies with RM.

[vectraman]

1 hour ago, PerthshireSaint said:

THB had a mare 

In his second ever premier league match. He has never played at this level, and he may or may not be good enough. I believe he will be, but this is the problem with learning as you go. Sometimes you learn by being crap. Sometimes by being good. 
Fingers crossed he comes good. I think he will 🤞🤞

[Dark Munster]

47 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

Selling Charly is such a brain-dead move, just tell Martin he's got to actually work with him instead of importing one of his cookie cutter pals

Agreed. Ditto with Tall Paul. 

[CB Fry]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The shoe-horn needs not be in the team.

we need to drop the 3 at the back bollox.

we should have Les and Flynn in the middle, with someone more forward facing ahead, with 3 forwards. 
 

The absolute mess today really showed up the deficiencies with RM.

I still feel like I have been in a coma and woken up to learn that Jack Stephens is some untouchable adored club legend who simply must play for every available minute.

It was fucking insane even last season, now it is absolutely inexplicable. 

He was shit for us in his prime. I don't get the obsession with him. Ultimately he will get Russell Martin sacked.

[egg]

56 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

That little 5 minute rush of subs where RM did all he could to keep Stephens on the pitch was very strange. Take off a full back, move Capt Jack to fullback. Sees the Forest winger tear him a new one so brings on a proper full back and moves Capt Jack out of harms way. Just creepy.

Who was the better CB today, Stephens or THB?

A CB had to go off to make a back 4 to change our shape. Bednarek wasn't going off, and Stephens was playing better, so the choice was pretty obvious. 

Some fans obsession with knocking Stephens is far weirder than the managers respect for him. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

I still feel like I have been in a coma and woken up to learn that Jack Stephens is some untouchable adored club legend who simply must play for every available minute.

It was fucking insane even last season, now it is absolutely inexplicable. 

He was shit for us in his prime. I don't get the obsession with him. Ultimately he will get Russell Martin sacked.

At least Martin will take Stephens with him.
 

Won’t he?

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, egg said:

Who was the better CB today, Stephens or THB?

A CB had to go off to make a back 4 to change our shape. Bednarek wasn't going off, and Stephens was playing better, so the choice was pretty obvious. 

Some fans obsession with knocking Stephens is far weirder than the managers respect for him. 

There’s a very good reason that fans knock Stephens.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I still feel like I have been in a coma and woken up to learn that Jack Stephens is some untouchable adored club legend who simply must play for every available minute.

It was fucking insane even last season, now it is absolutely inexplicable. 

He was shit for us in his prime. I don't get the obsession with him. Ultimately he will get Russell Martin sacked.

Very well put

[Badger]

14 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Fucking sick and tired of Martin's obvious bias towards British "lads" with beards and banter galore. 

Not “lads” , it’s “guys” ffs. 

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Who was the better CB today, Stephens or THB?

A CB had to go off to make a back 4 to change our shape. Bednarek wasn't going off, and Stephens was playing better, so the choice was pretty obvious. 

Some fans obsession with knocking Stephens is far weirder than the managers respect for him. 

Yeah, I'm not sure on the Stephens bashing today. He did nothing wrong, and was probably our more passable player with the ball.

THB had an absolute disaster class, so his sub made total sense. 

I think most appreciate that he's not a superstar, but the piling in on him when he didn't evne do anything wrong is incredibly tiresome. There were many other players more benefiting to a rant. Not that anyone deserves really ranting about at this stage.

Edited August 24 by S-Clarke

[Saint_clark]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I still feel like I have been in a coma and woken up to learn that Jack Stephens is some untouchable adored club legend who simply must play for every available minute.

It was fucking insane even last season, now it is absolutely inexplicable. 

He was shit for us in his prime. I don't get the obsession with him. Ultimately he will get Russell Martin sacked.

Martin just absolutely underestimating the quality of the Prem. Some of us predicted it when he stated in an interview that he couldn't understand why Saints loaned Stephens out the last season we were up here.

Spoiler alert...it's because he wasnt good enough, Russell.

[egg]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There’s a very good reason that fans knock Stephens.

Was Stephens better thanTHB today? The answer is yes.

Whether he should have taken a FB off and pushed Stephens over is another issue. Sure, RM went around it in a peculiar way, but he kept the right 2 x cb's on the pitch today. 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Was Stephens better thanTHB today? The answer is yes.

Whether he should have taken a FB off and pushed Stephens over is another issue. Sure, RM went around it in a peculiar way, but he kept the right 2 x cb's on the pitch today. 

We had other options. My problem with Stephens is that he just holds up our game and robs it of any momentum. If I had my way he wouldn’t have been out there from the start.

I’m not sure what was wrong with THB. He seemed a bit ’off’ all game.

[egg]

18 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

I’m convinced that it doesn’t. Today was Russball at its worst. 

Yep. I posted a while ago that I'd heard that he'd go even if he went up. The concerns were about his ability to set us up defensively. Obvs he hasn't gone, and he's clearly worked on our defence, but to the detriment of giving us any attacking threat. This wide forward nonsense just ain't working. 

We've got no chance of competing with these tactics.