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Mateus Fernandes

Patches O Houlihan

By Patches O Houlihan
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northam soul

northam soul

Posted
Posted
  On 19/08/2024 at 18:46, SuperSAINT said:

Will be interesting once this one gets confirmed to find out if this was an O’Riley alternate or not.

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Well it would be typical Saints to go from a player that had what 40 goal involvements last season to one that had 3.

Really can’t see they would be competing for the same spot but this is Saints.

Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
  On 18/08/2024 at 21:21, revolution saint said:

OK, if being a Portuguese international isn't enough for you, he also was part of the teams that finished 6th and 8th for Saints.  Koeman thought he was decent enough and he's probably a better judge than you.

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Also not too shabby since for Inter Milan and Arsenal, but on balance Ryan Manning shades it... 

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Patches O Houlihan

Patches O Houlihan

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 07:52, skintsaint said:

He was out on loan though wasn't he so not at a dominant team?

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True - he was at Estoril. But what I'm saying is that if you are in the top 20% at a given skill in the PL you are competing against maybe 12-18 top players (2x top six clubs in that position + 6 good players from other teams)

In Portugal that would be 2x3 + 5 or 6. Ultimately I'm saying the wheel isn't directly comparable with a PL data wheel. Still useful though

SaintsFan86

SaintsFan86

Posted
Posted
  On 19/08/2024 at 18:58, northam soul said:

Well it would be typical Saints to go from a player that had what 40 goal involvements last season to one that had 3.

Really can’t see they would be competing for the same spot but this is Saints.

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They are different profiles. One is a 8 and the other is a 10

Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 11:53, SaintsFan86 said:

They are different profiles. One is a 8 and the other is a 10

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Christ on a bike, what does this mean? Sorry, I’m an old fart. 

I understand the distinction between a “6” (for me a defensive midfielder) and “10” (perhaps the attacking mf), but isn’t it splitting hairs between an 8 and 10 ? 
 

For me though the 6 should be a central defender ( a Gabriel or Steele) although that’s negotiable. The 8 though is, and always will be, Channon running at defences.

 

  • Like 3
SaintsFan86

SaintsFan86

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 12:05, Badger said:

Christ on a bike, what does this mean? Sorry, I’m an old fart. 

I understand the distinction between a “6” (for me a defensive midfielder) and “10” (perhaps the attacking mf), but isn’t it splitting hairs between an 8 and 10 ? 
 

For me though the 6 should be a central defender ( a Gabriel or Steele) although that’s negotiable. The 8 though is, and always will be, Channon running at defences.

 

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Basically, Fernandes is more Schniederlin, if we sell Charly we would want a Tadic style player too.

  • Like 1
Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 12:20, SaintsFan86 said:

Basically, Fernandes is more Schniederlin, if we sell Charly we would want a Tadic style player too.

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Interesting, thanks.

But from what I’ve read I thought Fernandes provided a bit more attacking threat.

Would certainly welcome another Schneiderlin though.

kitch

kitch

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 12:05, Badger said:

Christ on a bike, what does this mean? Sorry, I’m an old fart. 

I understand the distinction between a “6” (for me a defensive midfielder) and “10” (perhaps the attacking mf), but isn’t it splitting hairs between an 8 and 10 ? 
 

For me though the 6 should be a central defender ( a Gabriel or Steele) although that’s negotiable. The 8 though is, and always will be, Channon running at defences.

 

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6 - CDM

8 - CM

10 - CAM

Patches O Houlihan

Patches O Houlihan

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Highlights from Alfie House's Echo article

  • Fernandes sometimes represents Portugal's youth teams as an attacking midfielder but made his home last campaign as a left eight.
  • Fernandes has taken free-kicks, corners and penalties across his first-team appearances for Sporting and Estoril, demonstrating a level of respect.
  • Goals and assists are not his first talent, which instead shines in tight areas under pressure and could see him suit Martin's system perfectly.
  • He gets fouled a lot
  • Fernandes averaged more passes into the final third per 90 minutes last campaign (6.51) than Smallbone (5.66) and Aribo (3.62) did.
  • Equally, he attempted a greater number of long passes trying 3.43 per 90 minutes, compared to Smallbone's 2.47 and Aribo's 0.73.
He did have worse accuracy than his new teammates in both short and long passing, perhaps down to Southampton's typically high safe possession.
The technical quality and choice of pass can be coached but the bravery Fernandes has shown at a young age is an innate trait the club hunted. 
 
Against the ball, Fernandes shares similar stats with Smallbone and Aribo but blows them out of the water in total defensive duels and recoveries.
 
In Portugal, Fernandes is viewed as one of the top prospects of the generation - and Sporting are reluctant to lose him as a result.
Fernandes is about looking forward - retaining the ball in the midfield and progressing it through the third and into the strikers.
Smallbone and Aribo might keep their place in the team for now but Fernandes will surely be knocking on the door if he can further craft his raw attributes.

mateus heat map.jpeg

The full article is well worth a read

Edited by Patches O Houlihan
  • Like 2
iansums

iansums

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 12:48, kitch said:

6 - CDM

8 - CM

10 - CAM

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Have to agree with Badger, I hate these new distinctions of midfield players. What about Steven Gerrard who could play anywhere across the midfield, was he a 24?

  • Like 1
kitch

kitch

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 14:16, iansums said:

Have to agree with Badger, I hate these new distinctions of midfield players. What about Steven Gerrard who could play anywhere across the midfield, was he a 24?

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Don't hate the player, hate the game 😄

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 12:05, Badger said:

Christ on a bike, what does this mean? Sorry, I’m an old fart. 

I understand the distinction between a “6” (for me a defensive midfielder) and “10” (perhaps the attacking mf), but isn’t it splitting hairs between an 8 and 10 ? 
 

For me though the 6 should be a central defender ( a Gabriel or Steele) although that’s negotiable. The 8 though is, and always will be, Channon running at defences.

 

Expand  

I'm not sure who's dreamt up these new numbers for positions. I recall an article on the BBC last year, I think from Danny Murphy, giving different numbers to positions, ie not this 6, 8 and 10 nonsense.

From my era, a 6 was a CB, a 4 was the more defence minded midfielder, an 8 your box to box midfielder, and a 10 the smaller man up front who dropped back a bit.

Feck knows who decided this 6, 8, 10 nonsense. 

  • Like 6
SaintsFan86

SaintsFan86

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 15:51, egg said:

I'm not sure who's dreamt up these new numbers for positions. I recall an article on the BBC last year, I think from Danny Murphy, giving different numbers to positions, ie not this 6, 8 and 10 nonsense.

From my era, a 6 was a CB, a 4 was the more defence minded midfielder, an 8 your box to box midfielder, and a 10 the smaller man up front who dropped back a bit.

Feck knows who decided this 6, 8, 10 nonsense. 

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Evolution. 

  • Haha 1
Daft Kerplunk

Daft Kerplunk

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 12:05, Badger said:

Christ on a bike, what does this mean? Sorry, I’m an old fart. 

I understand the distinction between a “6” (for me a defensive midfielder) and “10” (perhaps the attacking mf), but isn’t it splitting hairs between an 8 and 10 ? 
 

For me though the 6 should be a central defender ( a Gabriel or Steele) although that’s negotiable. The 8 though is, and always will be, Channon running at defences.

 

Expand  

a 6 was once a 4

  • Like 1
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 16:08, egg said:

Bollox. Some hipster has made it up, and put it out there as apparent fact. 

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just like all this shite about false 9s and other things a while back, what a load of shite all that was. Just some knob heads sitting in front of a computer somewhere trying to be clever

  • Like 2
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 16:13, Turkish said:

just like all this shite about false 9s and other things a while back, what a load of shite all that was. Just some knob heads sitting in front of a computer somewhere trying to be clever

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Yep. I'm guessing these are the numbers used in football manager or FIFA or some other games played by kids etc. 

I'll try to find the Danny Murphy article. Says a lot when ex pro pundits refuse to use these numbers.

Anyways, I've decided Downes is a 4, THB is a 6, and AA a 10. Old school.

Evolution my arse. 

  • Like 2
revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 16:17, egg said:

Yep. I'm guessing these are the numbers used in football manager or FIFA or some other games played by kids etc. 

I'll try to find the Danny Murphy article. Says a lot when ex pro pundits refuse to use these numbers.

Anyways, I've decided Downes is a 4, THB is a 6, and AA a 10. Old school.

Evolution my arse. 

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Nonsense, AA is a false 9.  Do keep up!

  • Haha 1
Luke SkyWalker-Peters

Luke SkyWalker-Peters

Posted
Posted (edited)

The reason a DM is referred to as a "6" in the modern football vernacular is very simple:

It's because that was the number worn by players playing DM outside of the UK. Coaches use the numbers associated with positions to most easily convey where they want a player to play in midfield. As a consequence of so many foreign managers and coaches coming to English football, in time the coaches and players here stopped referring to a DM as a "4" and instead as a "6". Pep has been the biggest driver of this change in the last 10 years or so as he regularly talks about the importance of the "6" in his system.

However, the traditionalists among you will be pleased to know that the England national team has made a concerted effort to keep the traditional English numbers going. You will have seen at the Euros Rice at DM wearing the no.4 shirt and Guehi at CB wearing the no.6.

Edited by Luke SkyWalker-Peters
  • Like 2
sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted

Back in the 60’s teams used to line up 2-3-5 at KO.

Gk = 1

Right back and left back 2 & 3

Two wing halves = 4 & 6 either side of the centre half = 5

The forward line consisted of two wingers = 7 & 11, two inside forwards = 8 & 10 and the centre forward = 9

The one substitute = 12

Our PE teacher used to blow his whistle every 5 minutes and if you weren’t standing in the correct place on the pitch according to your number/playing position you would get a bollocking. 

Both wingers and full backs would be glued to the wings. The centre half picked up the centre forward and the two wing halves would pick up the two inside forwards.

Playing it out from the back meant hoofing it upfield. If you tried to play football at the back you would get a bollocking from all of your team mates and probably dropped for the next match.

Passing to a man who was marked was also a big no-no and would usually result in you getting bollocked by the bloke you passed to who was marked as he would have been kicked up in the air as soon as he touched the ball (and sometimes before the ball had even reached him).

The wingers had one job, stand on the half way line and when you got the ball, leg it down the wing and centre it to the big lump of a centre forward who would trade elbows with the centre half as they both tried to get their heads on the end of a sodden lump of laced up leather.

The inside forwards were trickier players and would play off of the centre forwards. It was the wing halves job to kick lumps out of them.

To put it even more simply, no’s 2 to 6 were there to flatten the opposite no’s 7 to 11.

Leeds were the exception to this in that their no’s 2 to 11 would go out and flatten anyone within kicking/punching distance.

It was all so simple then until Sir Alf Ramsey did away with wingers and played overlapping full backs in a 4-3-3 formation. It all went downhill from there (apart from winning our one and only World Cup of course).
 


 

 

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revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 16:48, sadoldgit said:

Back in the 60’s teams used to line up 2-3-5 at KO.

Gk = 1

Right back and left back 2 & 3

Two wing halves = 4 & 6 either side of the centre half = 5

The forward line consisted of two wingers = 7 & 11, two inside forwards = 8 & 10 and the centre forward = 9

The one substitute = 12

Our PE teacher used to blow his whistle every 5 minutes and if you weren’t standing in the correct place on the pitch according to your number/playing position you would get a bollocking. 

Both wingers and full backs would be glued to the wings. The centre half picked up the centre forward and the two wing halves would pick up the two inside forwards.

Playing it out from the back meant hoofing it upfield. If you tried to play football at the back you would get a bollocking from all of your team mates and probably dropped for the next match.

Passing to a man who was marked was also a big no-no and would usually result in you getting bollocked by the bloke you passed to who was marked as he would have been kicked up in the air as soon as he touched the ball (and sometimes before the ball had even reached him).

The wingers had one job, stand on the half way line and when you got the ball, leg it down the wing and centre it to the big lump of a centre forward who would trade elbows with the centre half as they both tried to get their heads on the end of a sodden lump of laced up leather.

The inside forwards were trickier players and would play off of the centre forwards. It was the wing halves job to kick lumps out of them.

To put it even more simply, no’s 2 to 6 were there to flatten the opposite no’s 7 to 11.

Leeds were the exception to this in that their no’s 2 to 11 would go out and flatten anyone within kicking/punching distance.

It was all so simple then until Sir Alf Ramsey did away with wingers and played overlapping full backs in a 4-3-3 formation. It all went downhill from there (apart from winning our one and only World Cup of course).
 


 

 

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Jumpers for goalpost eh?  Isn't it?  Marvellous, hmm?  

  • Like 1
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Teamsaint1

Teamsaint1

Posted
Posted

And that is how it should be .6 is the more “ball playing “ of the two centre halves, ideally.

if I was a central DM I would want the 4 shirt.

Going back to SOGs post, didn’t England play a kind of diamond midfield in 1966 ? 

Dellyears

Dellyears

Posted
Posted
  On 20/08/2024 at 16:48, sadoldgit said:

Back in the 60’s teams used to line up 2-3-5 at KO.

Gk = 1

Right back and left back 2 & 3

Two wing halves = 4 & 6 either side of the centre half = 5

The forward line consisted of two wingers = 7 & 11, two inside forwards = 8 & 10 and the centre forward = 9

The one substitute = 12

Our PE teacher used to blow his whistle every 5 minutes and if you weren’t standing in the correct place on the pitch according to your number/playing position you would get a bollocking. 

Both wingers and full backs would be glued to the wings. The centre half picked up the centre forward and the two wing halves would pick up the two inside forwards.

Playing it out from the back meant hoofing it upfield. If you tried to play football at the back you would get a bollocking from all of your team mates and probably dropped for the next match.

Passing to a man who was marked was also a big no-no and would usually result in you getting bollocked by the bloke you passed to who was marked as he would have been kicked up in the air as soon as he touched the ball (and sometimes before the ball had even reached him).

The wingers had one job, stand on the half way line and when you got the ball, leg it down the wing and centre it to the big lump of a centre forward who would trade elbows with the centre half as they both tried to get their heads on the end of a sodden lump of laced up leather.

The inside forwards were trickier players and would play off of the centre forwards. It was the wing halves job to kick lumps out of them.

To put it even more simply, no’s 2 to 6 were there to flatten the opposite no’s 7 to 11.

Leeds were the exception to this in that their no’s 2 to 11 would go out and flatten anyone within kicking/punching distance.

It was all so simple then until Sir Alf Ramsey did away with wingers and played overlapping full backs in a 4-3-3 formation. It all went downhill from there (apart from winning our one and only World Cup of course).
 


 

 

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Exactly how I remember it, both how we were taught at school and how we saw it at the Dell on alternate Saturdays at 3.00pm. The decisive clash was often between the free booter at centre half and the strong arm centre forward. There were exceptions and the greatest for us was Charlie Wayman the tiniest forward in the league who ran rings round confused giants and made himself my first Saints hero. I got his autograph sixteen times in one book. He came to the Dell each  morning on the number 2 bus.  On the sixteenth occasion he spoke and said 'Have I seen you before'. Marvellous.

  • Like 6
Saint Matty 76

Saint Matty 76

Posted
Posted

The exact type of signing I'm usually really excited for us to make, but I think it's currently a little overshadowed by the needs elsewhere for me. I hope he's able to make a positive impact right away, though.

  • Like 3
HarvSFC

HarvSFC

Posted
Posted

Sugawara obviously a very good player, so hopefully there has been some amendments to the recruitment team from two years ago and this can be another gem. Downes, Ugochukwu, Aribo, Smallbone and Fernandes all vying for the three spots. Good competition when in previous years we've had to keep the same midfield game by game due to having rubbish like Diallo as backup.

Now, onto a goalkeeper and a Tadic like creator.

CSA96

CSA96

Posted
Posted

Sounds good to me!

Russell Martin said: “Mateus is a player we have been monitoring for a while and someone we are really excited about. He brings great energy, retains possession well and always looks for the forward pass.

“He is young and full of enthusiasm to come and play for Southampton. With the ability he has to drive forward from midfield, we think he has some key attributes to really help us – not just in the future, given his age, but here and now in the Premier League.”

 

  • Like 3

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