Wage increases

[OldNick]

Well the gov has given the junior doctors 22% wage increase and now the Train drivers 14% increase, seems its going to be a bountiful time for any workforce with a powerful union.

The floodgates are starting to open, and so not only massive wage increases but also the pensions that come with it will be added. 

Prudent and keeping the reins on inflation it seems, top work

[rooney]

46 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Well the gov has given the junior doctors 22% wage increase and now the Train drivers 14% increase, seems its going to be a bountiful time for any workforce with a powerful union.

The floodgates are starting to open, and so not only massive wage increases but also the pensions that come with it will be added. 

Prudent and keeping the reins on inflation it seems, top work

But the rises are over 3 years not one.

[The Kraken]

Down with paying people a fair wage.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

From fullfact

"During the 2019 general election campaign, the Labour Party registered donations of £5.4 million, of which just over £5 million came from trade unions. It also received £160,000 from individuals and £200,000 from companies.

By comparison, the Conservative Party registered donations of £19.3 million, of which £13.2 million came from individuals and £5.9 million came from companies. No funding was received from trade unions."

Basically, whichever one is in power will look out for the people/ unions that paid donations to help them get there. Much of the rest of the time is looking out for those they are told to, or for their future careers (whether from donations to their own campaigns or relating to jobs they get along the way in government).

During the campaign, I heard a couple of union interviews, where they tried to be coy, but we're salivating at the thought of their upcoming negotiation.

A representative in a recent dispute (quite possibly junior doctors) was saying that the bumper deal on offer, really wasn't a good deal. It was just the start, and they'd be looking for the rest of their lost pay since the financial crash in due course.

For balance, the head of a train drivers union said something like "Yes. We do try to get the best deal for our members. That's what everyone else should have been doing."

[buctootim]

29 minutes ago, rooney said:

But the rises are over 3 years not one.

Exactly. OP being very misleading. 

My missus is a junior doctor. She is currently on the resuscitation team in A&E - literally bringing people back from the dead.

She gets £46,000pa for a 46 hour week which pro-rated to the 37 hours most people work is only £37,000 pa. But she also works shifts- including 12.5 hour nights, weekends, bank holidays and evenings. Assuming a norm of say 25% extra for shift work that means her equivalent salary without shift premium is £29,500. 

Don't know about you but I don't think £29,500 pa after 5 years of med school and two years of work is too much for 37 hours of restarting peoples hearts.      

Edited 15 August, 2024 by buctootim

[egg]

40 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Exactly. OP being very misleading. 

My missus is a junior doctor. She is currently on the resuscitation team in A&E - literally bringing people back from the dead.

She gets £46,000pa for a 46 hour week which pro-rated to the 37 hours most people work is only £37,000 pa. But she also works shifts- including 12.5 hour nights, weekends, bank holidays and evenings. Assuming a norm of say 25% extra for shift work that means her equivalent salary without shift premium is £29,500. 

Don't know about you but I don't think £29,500 pa after 5 years of med school and two years of work is too much for 37 hours of restarting peoples hearts.      

Surely she knew the salary structure when she took the job? 

[buctootim]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

Surely she knew the salary structure when she took the job? 

Did I say she was complaining?

She is working up north atm and renting a 2 bed house for £850pm 10 minutes from the hospital so has a decent lifestyle. In London and most of the south you cant expect qualified doctors to be happy doing a 12.5 hour shift then having to travel and hour back to a crappy room in a shared house.     

Edited 15 August, 2024 by buctootim

[whelk]

I am all for workers getting a fair wage and rises. Train drivers aren’t one of the more the deserving ones though. The previous SouthWestern ASLEF deal before this one was very beneficial to the drivers. May not be same for other railway companies as they all did different deals with drivers but they are v well looked after compared to others

Edited 15 August, 2024 by whelk

[egg]

7 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Did I say she was complaining?

She is working up north atm and renting a 2 bed house for £850pm 10 minutes from the hospital so has a decent lifestyle. In London and most of the south you cant expect qualified doctors to be happy doing a 12.5 hour shift then having to travel and hour back to a crappy room in a shared house.     

You were complaining on her behalf. Nurses, hospital doctors, teachers, and some other public sector workers, should be paid more, despite the fantastic pension.

However, what they cannot do is qualify into that profession and then complain about the terms. 

[buctootim]

Just now, egg said:

You were complaining on her behalf. Nurses, hospital doctors, teachers, and some other public sector workers, should be paid more, despite the fantastic pension.

However, what they cannot do is qualify into that profession and then complain about the terms. 

That good no longer fantastic pension she pays 11% of her salary into 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

I am all for workers getting a fair wage and rises. Train drivers aren’t one of the more the deserving ones though. The previous SouthWestern ASLEF deal before this one was very beneficial to the drivers. May not be same for other railway companies as they all did different deals with drivers but they are v well looked after compared to others

Train drivers, and everyone working on the railways are paid an eye watering amount for what they do. I read a while ago that the basic pay for the guys on the platform and ticket office is nudging £40k. Not sure which company it was, but high £30's k for flogging train tickets ain't bad. 

Then there's the tube drivers. Crazy money. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, buctootim said:

That good no longer fantastic pension she pays 11% of her salary into 

And she'll retire with a pension with a transfer value of £1m + in today's money. In the private sector she'd have to be paying in a massive chunk of her salary to even get close to that. Roundabouts and swings to an extent, but I'm with you that the salaries aren't where they should be, but even the diluted pension under the 2015 scheme is excellent. 

[whelk]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

You were complaining on her behalf. Nurses, hospital doctors, teachers, and some other public sector workers, should be paid more, despite the fantastic pension.

However, what they cannot do is qualify into that profession and then complain about the terms. 

We shouldn’t take advantages of noble professions though. I for one want potential talent to be attracted to the profession and remunerated appropriately. 
You will too when you or loved one becomes ill and you realise how great they are. 
 

 

[whelk]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

And she'll retire with a pension with a transfer value of £1m + in today's money. In the private sector she'd have to be paying in a massive chunk of her salary to even get close to that. Roundabouts and swings to an extent, but I'm with you that the salaries aren't where they should be, but even the diluted pension under the 2015 scheme is excellent. 

Do you know what the percentage equivalent on salary to take into account. I was told it is equivalent to 19% so for £50k salary is in effect £59500

[egg]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

We shouldn’t take advantages of noble professions though. I for one want potential talent to be attracted to the profession and remunerated appropriately. 
You will too when you or loved one becomes ill and you realise how great they are. 
 

 

We shouldn't take advantage, I agree, but new entrants know what they're getting into. Whether we should up the salary to attract and retain talent is a separate issue, and fwiw, I think we massively underpay hospital medics. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

Train drivers, and everyone working on the railways are paid an eye watering amount for what they do. I read a while ago that the basic pay for the guys on the platform and ticket office is nudging £40k. Not sure which company it was, but high £30's k for flogging train tickets ain't bad. 

Then there's the tube drivers. Crazy money. 

Correct, and some of the Spanish practices are ridiculous as well. 
 

The fact drivers pay doesn’t appear to be linked to changes to some of the terms is a mistake imo. 
 

IMO. They wanted  to show they could get things done & were different than the Tories & the chaos. “The grown ups have sorted it out” sort of vibe. That’s why they settled without much fight. However, it’s going to be hard to hold the tide back now. 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

Do you know what the percentage equivalent on salary to take into account. I was told it is equivalent to 19% so for £50k salary is in effect £59500

That I don't know, but pension cash equivalent values is a changing calculation (gilt yields and all sorts of stuff I don't pretend to know impacts it). It use to be the case that as a crude rule of thumb the accrued benefits under a defined benefit scheme would be multiplied by about 25 to get the cash value, a higher multiplier in professions with a scheme what paid at a younger age, so the earlier NHS schemes, forces, police, fire fighters, etc. So a medic retiring on a £50k pension would comfortably have a scheme which would have costed him/her well over a million. 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, buctootim said:

Exactly. OP being very misleading. 

My missus is a junior doctor. She is currently on the resuscitation team in A&E - literally bringing people back from the dead.

She gets £46,000pa for a 46 hour week which pro-rated to the 37 hours most people work is only £37,000 pa. But she also works shifts- including 12.5 hour nights, weekends, bank holidays and evenings. Assuming a norm of say 25% extra for shift work that means her equivalent salary without shift premium is £29,500. 

Don't know about you but I don't think £29,500 pa after 5 years of med school and two years of work is too much for 37 hours of restarting peoples hearts.      

That’s what you get for going out with a much younger bird 

[spyinthesky]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

That good no longer fantastic pension she pays 11% of her salary into 

I think NHS staff do great work for not a lot of money although as I understand it, those on salaries of between £32k and £49k pay 9.8% and £49k to £63k pay 10.7% and + £63k pay 12.5%
However the employers contribution is now around 20% on a Defined Benefit Basis so this is really a level that very few other pension providers offer and is a significant amount of Treasury outlay.

[ecuk268]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Train drivers, and everyone working on the railways are paid an eye watering amount for what they do. I read a while ago that the basic pay for the guys on the platform and ticket office is nudging £40k. Not sure which company it was, but high £30's k for flogging train tickets ain't bad. 

Then there's the tube drivers. Crazy money. 

According to the National Careers Service, the average salary for a station worker starts at £17000 and rises to £27000.

Southwestern Railway are advertising for what they call a Gateline Assistant at a salary of £23800.

[egg]

7 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

According to the National Careers Service, the average salary for a station worker starts at £17000 and rises to £27000.

Southwestern Railway are advertising for what they call a Gateline Assistant at a salary of £23800.

Hmm. I'll have a look for what I saw. 

[buctootim]

15 hours ago, Turkish said:

That’s what you get for going out with a much younger bird 

Haha. I can suffer if.   

She's up near you so you never know, you might meet over a trolley. 

 

Edited 16 August, 2024 by buctootim

[Challenger]

1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

I think NHS staff do great work for not a lot of money although as I understand it, those on salaries of between £32k and £49k pay 9.8% and £49k to £63k pay 10.7% and + £63k pay 12.5%
However the employers contribution is now around 20% on a Defined Benefit Basis so this is really a level that very few other pension providers offer and is a significant amount of Treasury outlay.

I suppose the government could raise the state retirement age for everyone in order to balance the books.

[AlexLaw76]

Looks like ASLEF want more ££££

[Gloucester Saint]

46 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Looks like ASLEF want more ££££

The issues are as much about staffing levels and timetables. I use Cross Country regularly to travel Midlands/SW/Wales and even when the strikes aren’t on, the holidays or sickness absence soon force trains to be cancelled, stuffing up travel plans for work or leisure because the drivers aren’t sufficient and the whole system is far too reliant on overtime.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj9le7vdw91o

The previous government did initiate a positive change - lowering the minimum age for drivers to qualify. The unions were calling for it as were the ATOCs. It’ll take 2-3 years to filter through, but it should alleviate shortages and need for constant overtone which is a major source of the industrial tensions, and it’s a good career option for younger people. The training centres and exams will still be hard to pass. So a pay deal is a bridging measure to that. 

Edited 16 August, 2024 by Gloucester Saint
GM read the post above the one you posted. You might learn something (more chance of Ross Stewart starting a first team SFC game.

[Guided Missile]

Quote

Train drivers to strike every weekend for next three months despite bumper pay rise
Members of Aslef union to start fresh campaign at LNER

We never pay any-one Dane-geld, No matter how trifling the cost; For the end of that game is oppression and shame, And the nation that plays it is lost!

[Guided Missile]

On 15/08/2024 at 16:16, OldNick said:

Well the gov has given the junior doctors 22% wage increase ,,,,, seems its going to be a bountiful time for any workforce with a powerful union.

Blood on their hands:

Quote

Neglect of a pensioner during a junior doctors’ strike contributed to her death, a coroner has found.

Daphne Austin, 71, died from sepsis nearly four weeks after she was first admitted to Cumberland Infirmary, in Carlisle, following a stroke last year, an inquest heard. The pensioner became dehydrated, her glucose levels were “poorly controlled” and there was a delay in carrying out blood testing because of strikes during her stay, it was said. Robert Cohen, the coroner, said that on one particular day Mrs Austin received no “medical input” because junior doctors had walked out in a dispute over pay.