Newcastle 1-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Sheaf Saint]

3 hours ago, Chez said:

It was an error. I am certainly not arguing against that. What I am arguing with is your assessment that our tactics had nothing to do with it. McCarthy may well have hoofed it at other times, but that underlying team desire does rub off on him and will have impacted his decision-making.  

OK I take your point. But on the flip side of that, Do we want a keeper that just kicks long without thinking every time the ball comes to him? Especially one with such poor long kicking as McCarthy? Of course not.

There is a threshold in any situation where a long kick clear becomes preferable to a pass out, regardless of the manager's tactics, but I don't think this situation was over that threshold. Others may disagree, however.

[mikee]

3 hours ago, Chez said:

alternatively, we could have gone to a flat back four and brought a winger on.

Exactly this! It would have been interesting to see KWp and Edozie together on the left, which I think would have created more chances. As well as Sugawara creating chances on the right. Hopefully Russ will learn from these type of games. 

I am looking forward to see how we setup at home against Forest.

[Sheaf Saint]

Anyway, the overall performance was, IMO, far better than the kind of disjointed shite we served up in our relegation season in 22/23. So I think there is good reason to be optimistic about the season.

[John B]

12 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Anyway, the overall performance was, IMO, far better than the kind of disjointed shite we served up in our relegation season in 22/23. So I think there is good reason to be optimistic about the season.

But what about the other teams in the PL who do you think is going to struggle

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, John B said:

But what about the other teams in the PL who do you think is going to struggle

Maybe no-one will "struggle" per se... If all teams play well 3 still have to go down...

[Sheaf Saint]

41 minutes ago, John B said:

But what about the other teams in the PL who do you think is going to struggle

Everton for one. They were abysmal yesterday, and will probably lose more players before the window slams shut in a desperate attempt to comply with PSR.

Other than that, it's too early to tell. 

[derry]

Edozie unless he was lucky was never going to open up Newcastle. He was totally predictable and double banked every time. He would have been far more effective with his quick feet spearing into the penalty area and inviting a challenge. Out on the line he was really no problem. Personally I didn't think that was the change to make, in fact four of the substitutions were inneffective, only Alcaraz did anything.

After Getafe Martin was talking about Onuachu as a plan B, then didn't put him on the bench. Yesterday it was crying out for a bit of physicality in the goal area. Dibling, SAA, Edozie and especially the all at sea Archer weren't going to change anything. The bench was a poor selection except for the defenders and apart from Alcaraz weakened rather than strengthened. It looked like a bench picked to keep SAA, Dibling and Archer in the group. Martin shot himself in the foot there, plus overthinking the half time changes that didn't help.

[AlexLaw76]

29 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Everton for one. They were abysmal yesterday, and will probably lose more players before the window slams shut in a desperate attempt to comply with PSR.

Other than that, it's too early to tell. 

Leicester are facing a 6 point deduction (which will probably be reduced to 3-4)

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Other than that, it's too early to tell. 

The most pertinent comment in this thread.

[Ken Tone]

Message from an acquaintance who's Geordie fan, and was at the match   .    

"Yes. You were the better team. It was a red card. We only scored from the goal keepers mistake. How did you not score several times..? Eddie will not be happy with it all. But….  Joelinton was excellent." 

 

[Chez]

1 hour ago, derry said:

The bench was a poor selection except for the defenders and apart from Alcaraz weakened rather than strengthened. It looked like a bench picked to keep SAA, Dibling and Archer in the group. 

Most on here have raved about Dibling. Archer is our new striker - did you not want him on the bench? and most want to see SAA get an opportunity. 

[Challenger]

4 minutes ago, Ken Tone said:

Message from an acquaintance who's Geordie fan, and was at the match   .    

"Yes. You were the better team. It was a red card. We only scored from the goal keepers mistake. How did you not score several times..? Eddie will not be happy with it all. But….  Joelinton was excellent." 

 

Another that has highlighted the two glaring and as yet unaddressed frailties of our team .

 

[derry]

9 minutes ago, Chez said:

Most on here have raved about Dibling. Archer is our new striker - did you not want him on the bench? and most want to see SAA get an opportunity. 

No, every other player who has joined goes through a familiarisation period with our game. Archer looked like a fish out of water, the game just passed him by. As for SAA and Dibling, they really didn't influence the game and although he had plenty of the ball neither did Edozie. The changes did nothing to improve things. Personally I thought he'd put plan B on the bench with Onuachu for Archer who needs a couple of weeks. Dibling and SAA on the bench.

[verlaine1979]

Taking off Sugawara for Edozie was clearly a mistake. KWP roving from the left and Suga's crossing created a lot more issues than Edozie, even though 90% of our attacks seemed to go through him once he came on.

[Chez]

Archer doesn't need a couple of weeks to familiarise.  Strikers don't need to understand where to be to beat the press, make the angles and be in the right place defensively. Personally I am unsure about him, but RM must rate him to sign him.

OK, so the other players that came on didn't change things this time, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have been on the bench. 

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say: 
"It looked like a bench picked to keep SAA, Dibling and Archer in the group"

I also have no idea why anyone would think RM would put Onuachu on the bench. RM doesn't rate him at all. 

Edited August 18 by Chez

[suewhistle]

7 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

There is a threshold in any situation where a long kick clear becomes preferable to a pass out, regardless of the manager's tactics, but I don't think this situation was over that threshold. Others may disagree, however.

I agree with you. He had options, whether a decent pass to his left to one of our players there or even just a shovel with his left foot out to the unmarked player on his right. That might have required a change of weight, instead he dithered and panicked as he does sometime. Either way not a weak, piss poor pass direct at the Newcastle player.

[macca155]

14 hours ago, Geordie said:

We play a hybrid 4-5-1/4-3-3. With Gordon and Murphy pushing up when we're in attack, or when the press is triggered.

We often let teams that favour a certain style attack for a bit, waiting for them to blow themselves out a little. Then we'll become more positive and aggressive as the game goes on. 

Had we not had a man sent off, we'd have been able to press you higher up the pitch more regularly, as is our usual pattern. 

Most newly promoted sides will come flying out of the blocks in their first game back. Makes sense to wait it out and rely on your defence, instead of expending a lot of energy in the early stages of the first game.

We were wasteful in possession early on, I'm putting that down to rustiness/weariness. Especially for Gordon, and Bruno. 

Yes fair explanation but it does seem overly cautious. I guess the fact that Saints happily pass the ball around at the back caused some problems with that strategy as it forced Newcastle to go on the front foot a bit. At that point to their credit Saints started playing through your midfield a little and put the left back under some pressure. That sending off really changed the dynamic and it all became a bit of a grind.

Oh well it will be interesting to see how the form book unwinds after that game.

[Appy]

6 hours ago, Ken Tone said:

Message from an acquaintance who's Geordie fan, and was at the match   .    

"Yes. You were the better team. It was a red card. We only scored from the goal keepers mistake. How did you not score several times..? Eddie will not be happy with it all. But….  Joelinton was excellent." 

 

Yeah he was excellent for them, him and Livramento looked their brightest players for me. 
 

Edozie getting booed for the first 20 minutes of the second half did raise a smile as the Newcastle fans couldn’t comprehend someone else on the left wing instead of Diaz. 

[Geordie]

19 hours ago, kenneth_kenobi said:

But you do it every game, everyone knows it and refs let you get away with it.

I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative, but that's just not the case. Howe's first full season, yeah we leant into the dark arts, but we hadn't the squad to pass the ball around. You have to remember that not 6 months prior we were dead certs for relegation. Hell, we're still fielding players from our time in the Championship. We rarely time waste now, it's only when we're up against a much better side, or we're a man down. Which is true for most clubs in the league. 

9 hours ago, macca155 said:

Yes fair explanation but it does seem overly cautious. I guess the fact that Saints happily pass the ball around at the back caused some problems with that strategy as it forced Newcastle to go on the front foot a bit. At that point to their credit Saints started playing through your midfield a little and put the left back under some pressure. That sending off really changed the dynamic and it all became a bit of a grind.

Oh well it will be interesting to see how the form book unwinds after that game.

I think we weren't really at it on Saturday and you were. Sloppy in possession and, after the sending off, little to no interest in attacking. Like you said, the red card killed the game as a spectacle and it all became a bit of a grind. I'm confident we'll not play like that against Bournemouth and, with more of our squad back (and maybe an addition or two), we'll be pushing for European football come May.

Good luck for the rest of the season.

[Dman]

It was a decent, assured performance from us. I went into the game fearing the worst but we looked composed on the ball. 

Clearly we are going to struggle to score the amount of goals we did last season, but I don't think we'll conceed as many either. 

Suga looks a serious player. Arugably worth keeping TP with his crossing ability, which seemed to be on the money every time. Wasn't impressed with what I saw from Archer, but its early doors! 

[Saint_Jonny]

I hope we beat them next time. Their fans have gone up 10 notches on the odious, insufferable mong scale since their sports washing takeover - they were always an entitled "we are massive" bunch of self important twats, but at least they had some humility for the most part. 

[Professor]

just because the rules allow managers to substitute half the team doesn't mean they should.  There seems to be an obsession with making second half changes, as if to justify the manager's job.  Unless there is a good reason to make a change, such as a player is affected by an injury or is performing below expectations, there's a strong case for leaving an unchanged team on the pitch for the whole game. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, Professor said:

just because the rules allow managers to substitute half the team doesn't mean they should.  There seems to be an obsession with making second half changes, as if to justify the manager's job.  Unless there is a good reason to make a change, such as a player is affected by an injury or is performing below expectations, there's a strong case for leaving an unchanged team on the pitch for the whole game. 

Agreed.

“Don’t just do something. Stand there”

(The White Rabbit)

[pimpin4rizeal]

The thought of only loaning a keeper because you don’t want to put someone in front of bazunu,  and after giving new contracts to McCarthy and lumley is pure lol .. You wouldn’t wish these decisions on your worst enemy 😳

[HarvSFC]

11 minutes ago, Professor said:

just because the rules allow managers to substitute half the team doesn't mean they should.  There seems to be an obsession with making second half changes, as if to justify the manager's job.  Unless there is a good reason to make a change, such as a player is affected by an injury or is performing below expectations, there's a strong case for leaving an unchanged team on the pitch for the whole game. 

This is correct. Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp were two of the biggest advocates for the five substitutes rule, yet they rarely use/d the five. Guardiola yesterday only made one sub, bringing on Foden for Savinho at half time due to an injury and City have the biggest and best squad in the league.

Using five subs can sometimes be disruptive to a team, you see it in friendlies and now with the new rule competitive matches too. 

[david in sweden]

There are lessons to be learned from this game.    Firstly ..playing against 10 men is not always the "obvious" advantage it might seem. 

(also noted that Pompey (playing at home)   v. Luton...who had their goalie red-carded after 30 mins. but still came away from Fratton with one point.)

Howe handled his team well, and brought on more defenders and parked the bus for the remainder of the game. 

We showed 70% dominance for the first 30 mins. when the media critics (and some fans) predicted our possession game wouldn't work in the Prem.

 

Newcastle's ONE real shot was their winning goal and (guess what)..predictably ...it was the sort of goalkeeping error we've known about for years .

I sincerely hope that we have another keeper on the books before the window closes ..and not a makeshift choice with little experience of the Prem.

We deserved  one point if only for effort, and some good shots that were somehow saved / diverted, but that's football.

 

The red card incident is not one to rejoice over, but Schär has learned a lesson, although BBD's theatrical response didn't help the situation

BUT... it's a long time since we've had a tough front man who was not shy of putting himself about, and I like that - if Ben is more judicious in future.

My early supporting days go back to the 1960's when the notorious ..George Kirby was a fearsome striker for Saints, who never gave defenders  a moments peace

and wasn't above challenging a goalkeeper - given the chance.. but that was back in the good old, bad old days - with no VAR. 

[david in sweden]

10 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

The thought of only loaning a keeper because you don’t want to put someone in front of bazunu,  and after giving new contracts to McCarthy and lumley is pure lol .. You wouldn’t wish these decisions on your worst enemy 😳

When McCarthy's contract went out, ( and Bazunu still out for half the season) , Lumley was the only "fit" keeper on the books  - JUSTIFIED.

Re-signing him was a sort of " repayment for services rendered during the play-offs ", but he can't be regarded even as a solid no.2 keeper 

and the all-too predictable error proved a sad point from the Newcastle game.  There seem to be a fairly large minority  who don't see Bazunu

as a  Prem. keeper and no-one knows how it will be when he is eventually " fit ". 

I don't care how many keepers we have, as long as the first choice is a top-rated man who comfortably knows his way around the Premier League

and can DAJFU.    Goalkeeping is the last line of defence , and another Shilton or Niemi would be worth the fee - whatever it is.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, david in sweden said:

but he can't be regarded even as a solid no.2 keeper 

You think we should be getting a better number 2 than AM. Dream on…

[east-stand-nic]

On another day we get at least a point in this game, we were just a bit unlucky at times. Thought we gave a very good account of ourselves. Good spirit, some good play, and deserved at least a point. My Geordie mate here agreed. He said if we play like that all season we will stay up. And now with some new players in already, we should be OK but RM needs to fix the GK situation and either let AMC do it his way or get someone new in else it will cost us a goal a game.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Professor said:

just because the rules allow managers to substitute half the team doesn't mean they should.  There seems to be an obsession with making second half changes, as if to justify the manager's job.  Unless there is a good reason to make a change, such as a player is affected by an injury or is performing below expectations, there's a strong case for leaving an unchanged team on the pitch for the whole game. 

Pep made just one change yesterday and he had some bloody good players on his bench.

[Chez]

11 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

On another day we get at least a point in this game, we were just a bit unlucky at times. Thought we gave a very good account of ourselves. Good spirit, some good play, and deserved at least a point. My Geordie mate here agreed. He said if we play like that all season we will stay up. And now with some new players in already, we should be OK 

Hopefully the players will gain a bit of confidence from the performance, but can we maintain that and add some ruthless finishing. There were some proper chances on Saturday. The strikers have to be lethal.

Forest are dangerous on the break. Hudson-Odoi finished las season on fire. Need to prevent him getting too much space, while also cope with the physicality of Wood and Awoniyi.

[SaintTex]

77.8% possession with nothing to show for it.

was curious to know what PL record for most possession without points might be.

[SNSUN]

50 minutes ago, SaintTex said:

77.8% possession with nothing to show for it.

was curious to know what PL record for most possession without points might be.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/77002

 

Bin Dippers.

[OldNick]

Personally, I would have liked Tall Paul to have been on the bench to give us the option when we needed his height and nuisance value when we need a late goal

[SaintTex]

3 hours ago, david in sweden said:

I don't care how many keepers we have, as long as the first choice is a top-rated man who comfortably knows his way around the Premier League

and can DAJFU.    Goalkeeping is the last line of defence , and another Shilton or Niemi would be worth the fee - whatever it is.

This. Always been surprised how low fees are for the GK position, as compared to others.

Why do we choke on a £18mil fee for a GK, but not for CB (THB), DM (Downes), or F(Archer)?

[CSA96]

Edit: wrong thread

Edited August 19 by CSA96

[Oldandtired]

5 hours ago, david in sweden said:

.  There seem to be a fairly large minority  who don't see Bazunu

as a  Prem. keeper and no-one knows how it will be when he is eventually " fit ". 

I think it's that sort of large minority that's called a majority.

I watched every home game he played in last season, I'm too old and tired for the away trips these days and, in all honesty, I didn't even see him as a  championship keeper let alone in the prem.

Edited August 19 by Oldandtired

[64saint]

I'd forgotten how the national newspapers report on Saint's games in the Premiership.  It's all about the opposition, either how poor they are ( as on Saturday with Newcastle)  or how devastatingly brilliant they are !! Have just read the match report in the Daily Mail ( I know I should get a decent paper 🙄!!) nearly  a whole page write up and not one mention of Saints, not even our sending off !!! 

Edited August 19 by 64saint

[suewhistle]

From the Guardian's 10 talking points: we did feature at the end of one, reasonably positively I'd say:

Quote

..Howe’s 10 men, who somehow kept Russell Martin’s impressive promoted team at bay while protecting the lead secured by Joelinton’s winning goal. With their 3-4-3 formation suiting them well, Southampton’s disappointment should be leavened by optimism.

 

[Badger]

5 hours ago, east-stand-nic said:

 My Geordie mate here agreed. He said if we play like that all season we will stay up. And now with some new players in already, we should be OK but RM needs to fix the GK situation and either let AMC do it his way or get someone new in else it will cost us a goal a game.

Could be right, but need to improve in both penalty areas.

54 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

From the Guardian's 10 talking points: we did feature at the end of one, reasonably positively I'd say:

Southampton’s disappointment should be leavened by optimism.

Not sure if it's meant to be the 'silver lining in a cloud', or a sort of condescending pat on the head after defeat, but no matter how it is dressed up, the optimism drains out when you think playing like that means gifting a goal, and then trying to walk the ball into the net every time.

[Badger]

8 hours ago, Saint_Jonny said:

I hope we beat them next time. Their fans have gone up 10 notches on the odious, insufferable mong scale since their sports washing takeover - they were always an entitled "we are massive" bunch of self important twats, but at least they had some humility for the most part. 

The few I spoke to before and after the game were quite reasonable.

[macca155]

9 hours ago, Saint_Jonny said:

I hope we beat them next time. Their fans have gone up 10 notches on the odious, insufferable mong scale since their sports washing takeover - they were always an entitled "we are massive" bunch of self important twats, but at least they had some humility for the most part. 

Well there are idiots at every club but speak as you find. I've been up there three times for games. I've always found them to be both knowledgeable and friendly. My only complaint was they insisted I drink that Newcastle Brown stuff .... urghh.

Big difference between real people and keyboard warriors.

[Harry_SFC]

27 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Well there are idiots at every club but speak as you find. I've been up there three times for games. I've always found them to be both knowledgeable and friendly. My only complaint was they insisted I drink that Newcastle Brown stuff .... urghh.

Big difference between real people and keyboard warriors.

Yeah the ones I bumped into on Saturday seemed really sound. 

[West end Saints]

Weren't people saying that we could not expect to dominate possession in the premier league like last season and needed to accept it and change approach?

Newcastle had less possession at home to us than they did for any game, home or away last season.

Disappointed not to get some points but first impression is that RM and this squad not totally out of their depth and about to get thrashed every game as some expected.

[CB Fry]

14 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

Weren't people saying that we could not expect to dominate possession in the premier league like last season and needed to accept it and change approach?

Newcastle had less possession at home to us than they did for any game, home or away last season.

Disappointed not to get some points but first impression is that RM and this squad not totally out of their depth and about to get thrashed every game as some expected.

Put the keys to the open top bus down. We've played one match, mainly against ten men, and lost.

[West end Saints]

37 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Put the keys to the open top bus down. We've played one match, mainly against ten men, and lost.

Jesus wept , no-one is celebrating and thinking we are safe!

Post says "first impressions ..not totally out of their depth"

But whether against 10 or 11 did you think we would dominate possession away to Newcastle. I thought we would struggle, and thought a big defeat possible so can see some positives - maybe clutching at straws.

If we lose Saturday, and start settling at the bottom, pressure will start simmering for the season.

So don't think anyone picking up those keys yet

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

Jesus wept , no-one is celebrating and thinking we are safe!

Post says "first impressions ..not totally out of their depth"

But whether against 10 or 11 did you think we would dominate possession away to Newcastle. I thought we would struggle, and thought a big defeat possible so can see some positives - maybe clutching at straws.

If we lose Saturday, and start settling at the bottom, pressure will start simmering for the season.

So don't think anyone picking up those keys yet

Yes.

[Professor]

21 hours ago, david in sweden said:

There are lessons to be learned from this game.    Firstly ..playing against 10 men is not always the "obvious" advantage it might seem. 

(also noted that Pompey (playing at home)   v. Luton...who had their goalie red-carded after 30 mins. but still came away from Fratton with one point.)

Howe handled his team well, and brought on more defenders and parked the bus for the remainder of the game. 

We showed 70% dominance for the first 30 mins. when the media critics (and some fans) predicted our possession game wouldn't work in the Prem.

 

Newcastle's ONE real shot was their winning goal and (guess what)..predictably ...it was the sort of goalkeeping error we've known about for years .

I sincerely hope that we have another keeper on the books before the window closes ..and not a makeshift choice with little experience of the Prem.

We deserved  one point if only for effort, and some good shots that were somehow saved / diverted, but that's football.

 

The red card incident is not one to rejoice over, but Schär has learned a lesson, although BBD's theatrical response didn't help the situation

BUT... it's a long time since we've had a tough front man who was not shy of putting himself about, and I like that - if Ben is more judicious in future.

My early supporting days go back to the 1960's when the notorious ..George Kirby was a fearsome striker for Saints, who never gave defenders  a moments peace

and wasn't above challenging a goalkeeper - given the chance.. but that was back in the good old, bad old days - with no VAR. 

Agree.  Also enjoyed seeing George Kirby remembered.  One of my early heroes for Saints as they rapidly climbed from Div 3 through to Div 1.

[david in sweden]

23 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You think we should be getting a better number 2 than AM. Dream on…

There is no certainty that Gavin Bazunu will return  " fit and agile " and in any better shape than he was in the Championship, and the prospect

of a return after New Year  sounds very sketchy to say the least, and despite that we may still be waiting for him to get fit at Easter !

My point was that knowing the obvious deficiencies in McCarthy's game ( yes we know every player has them) but we are in the Prem. now and 

every other club in the Prem. has seen him at first hand.   I didn't regard McCarthy as a good no.2 last season (despite his games in the play-offs) 

 

Now that we've signed half-a-dozen midfielders to go along with those we still have from last season...why was there no urgency to sign another keeper

who is capable of  DAJFU in the Prem. way back in June?   Was there some backroom theory that AM might have improved enough to fill in the time frame

of Bazunu's absence ?.    Well ....we got the answer to that one in the first game, and the next step must be finding someone else PDQ ...and at any price.

 

Nothing short of a mature, experienced keeper with a knowledge of the Prem. is a vital  requirement.   The list for that must be a pretty da*n short one. 

[kitch]

Anyone know exactly why Sugawara came off at H/T? We probably one of our best performers in the first half, bit worried he's picked up a knock or something.