Newcastle 1-0 Saints - Match Thread

[beatlesaint]

35 minutes ago, drd said:

Interesting as a Cherries fan to see criticism of your keeper. Neto has been a bit of a liability for the last season but then you look at other fans' forums and a lot complain about their keepers 

Just look at Man U and Onana and how much did he cost them?

I think now keepers play out from the back so much, there is potential for cock up from them all.

Thought you were unlucky yesterday from the highlights. BBD obviously already up to speed on cheating in the PL; not a criticism, they all bloody do it, or players included

Well as a Cherries fan you will be more than most familiar with the dark arts of the game that Howe has mastered over the years so it was ironic to see him played at his own game. Had the boot been on the other foot the Newcastle lad would have done eactly the same and Howe knows it, he would have demanded it probably.

[beatlesaint]

3 minutes ago, JRM said:

Have you seen footage from the tunnel at half time where one of theirs tries putting it on Diaz, bunch of cnts hopefully we have the water in the away dressing room on extra cold when they come down 

It comes from the manager, nobody buys this kind of quiet, polite exterior that Howe shows in interviews. He's a shit house, same goes for his tanned lapdog stood next time like they are joined at the hip.

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Well as a Cherries fan you will be more than most familiar with the dark arts of the game that Howe has mastered over the years so it was ironic to see him played at his own game. Had the boot been on the other foot the Newcastle lad would have done eactly the same and Howe knows it, he would have demanded it probably.

Exactly right. Can you imagine how someone like Guimaraes would have reacted - he'd still be rolling around clutching his head now as thousands of Geordies screamed for the perpetrator to be sent off. Schar was stupid and deserved the red card.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Looking at the Sky highlights, another 2 'keepers played the ball directly out to opponents. Of the 3, we were the only ones to concede.

good point. In the  United Fulham game Leno did exactly the same and got away with it. Just watching the highlights of the other games I saw so many errors, not just from keepers but defenders ad midfielders losing the ball. I think as fans we sometimes forget that players from other teams also make mistakes. It's not just ours.

It's probably not the best time/thread to defend McCarthy, but all keepers are being asked to play like outfielders these days and they almost all fuck up from time to time. It's so tough. They have to have touch, passing range and accuracy...and decision making. Even proper outfield players make errors in those three department. The keepers are bound to do the same. 

 

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

good point. In the  United Fulham game Leno did exactly the same and got away with it. Just watching the highlights of the other games I saw so many errors, not just from keepers but defenders ad midfielders losing the ball. I think as fans we sometimes forget that players from other teams also make mistakes. It's not just ours.

It's probably not the best time/thread to defend McCarthy, but all keepers are being asked to play like outfielders these days and they almost all fuck up from time to time. It's so tough. They have to have touch, passing range and accuracy...and decision making. Even proper outfield players make errors in those three department. The keepers are bound to do the same. 

 

It's also tricky as passes forward can more easily be cut out by opposing players - there's only so many options to pass out to, so each goalkeeping pass has to be nigh on perfect.

McCarthy isn't cut out for it, but not many are. I guess that's why we value crisp-packet Baz so highly (even though even he misplaces passes).

[trousers]

3 hours ago, obelisk said:

Don't really get all this happiness with a defeat against a team with 10 men for an hour where Saints totally dominated - because the performance was better than expected. 😐

 

The "happiness" is relative and partial, based on the expected outcome versus the actual outcome.

i.e. Most were expecting a tonking and us being way out of our depth; it didn't happen; ergo it's logical to be 'happy' in that context. 

Yes, the way the match unfolded  was frustrating.

Being relatively 'happy' with the outcome (vs expectations) and being disappointed with how the game evolved aren't mutually exclusive viewpoints....

Edited August 18 by trousers

[Chez]

1 hour ago, macca155 said:

As for Armstrong, well he forced several saves. Way too early to judge.

Thought he should have scored the first. It's a chance I expect a good striker to take. Not quite in the realm of the McCarthy error, but you need your strikers to score those if you want to win at this level. As always fans go easy on  striker/player we like etc. though. Much easier to just put the defeat on the keeper.

The second was a good save.

[Baird of the land]

Such a frustrating goal to concede. 
against 10 men you’d think there should be more pragmatism deployed in that sort of situation.

[Chez]

7 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

It's also tricky as passes forward can more easily be cut out by opposing players - there's only so many options to pass out to, so each goalkeeping pass has to be nigh on perfect.

McCarthy isn't cut out for it, but not many are. I guess that's why we value crisp-packet Baz so highly (even though even he misplaces passes).

I'm with you.

Lot of comments on here about him needing to play it out to the right, but that would have required a nice touch that also opened his body to make that pass. He easily could have fucked that up touch and would have the Newcastle attacker all over him in the six yard box. He took the `safer' one-touch-back-were it came from type option and fucked it.

If we get a new keeper in, that can play liek Baz (and save shots) he'll still make errors. Hopefully less than McCarthy though.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

If a shot is blocked on the line that is no longer considered a shot on target. Similarly you could have 20 shots that were never going in be blocked, and stats would show zero shots off target - making your accuracy sound amazing. 

Are the people that make up these unfathomable rules in a permanent state of intoxication or are they just intellectually deficient? Genuine question. 

Edited August 18 by trousers

[Chez]

11 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Sorry but this is just bollocks. There were other occasions when he did hoof the ball when there were no other options.

There was no real danger and a pass out was a perfectly viable option in that situation. He had time to control it and pick a better pass, but the simple fact is he switched off and fucked up spectacularly.

That was 100% on Macca and nothing whatsoever to do with tactics or instructions.

you don't think our general desire to retain possession had any bearing at all?

[Oldandtired]

I’m not defending AMc but how many times in a match do you outfield players misplace even a five yard pass. I guarantee it happens multiple times, but no-one jumps on that particular bandwagon. The only difference is that an outfield player’s balls up doesn’t normally lead to a goal, the keeper’s sometimes does, the mistake is the same.

[Harry_SFC]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

I'm with you.

Lot of comments on here about him needing to play it out to the right, but that would have required a nice touch that also opened his body to make that pass. He easily could have fucked that up touch and would have the Newcastle attacker all over him in the six yard box. He took the `safer' one-touch-back-were it came from type option and fucked it.

If we get a new keeper in, that can play liek Baz (and save shots) he'll still make errors. Hopefully less than McCarthy though.

Yeah all keepers make errors but as you say, it's about limiting them. McCarthy seemed to make a mistake when passing out/sweeping in every pre season game and then yesterday. Bazunu only made a few in pretty much most of the season last year. Just a shame he can't save anything! 

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

I’m not defending AMc but how many times in a match do you outfield players misplace even a five yard pass. I guarantee it happens multiple times, but no-one jumps on that particular bandwagon. The only difference is that an outfield player’s balls up doesn’t normally lead to a goal, the keeper’s sometimes does, the mistake is the same.

The mistake is the same but the consequences can be far worse. That’s why the simplest option is the safest. What does anyone gain by trying to play possession football in their own penalty area?

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Yeah all keepers make errors but as you say, it's about limiting them. McCarthy seemed to make a mistake when passing out/sweeping in every pre season game and then yesterday. Bazunu only made a few in pretty much most of the season last year. Just a shame he can't save anything! 

This system puts too much pressure on the goalkeeper and overloads him. The Premier League demands continuous concentration and expecting a goalkeeper to be fielding back passes one second and making spectacular saves the next is like asking a dog to walk on its hind legs whilst chasing rabbits.

Once the inevitable mistake is made or a pass is mishit the goalkeeper is not in the right position and ‘set’ to make the subsequent save.

[AlexLaw76]

Definitely at least a point dropped here, such a shame

McCarthy is horrific and needs replacing asap (soon after his nice little contract extension - FML)

[pimpin4rizeal]

Kinda hard to judge us from that game, the Bbd incident getting the red card gave us the opportunity to play our possession football.. then obviously after they scored from McCarthy’s horrific pass  we had all the ball whilst they defended in numbers which is always quite hard to break down.

Thought Aribo put in a Motm performance yesterday he was pulling strings, playing disguised clever defence  splitting passes very clever use of the ball. He’s got a real intelligent playmaker side to his game that he doesn’t yet get enough credit for 

[Sheaf Saint]

43 minutes ago, Chez said:

you don't think our general desire to retain possession had any bearing at all?

If he was under intense, immediate pressure from an attacking player who forced the error, then you would have a point. But that really wasn't the case. 

Nobody was pressing him and he had some perfectly good options to pass the ball out. There was absolutely no need to hoof it in that scenario.

It was a simple brain fart.

[Charlie Wayman]

F me! 85% possesion and all effing Shearer can talk about is an effing Toon midfielder. He needs effing sacking immediately.

Well done Russ and the boys. Wonderful performance except for McCostly. Keepthis going and we're safe.

Big shout out for Smallbone who oozed class.

[Charlie Wayman]

52 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

I’m not defending AMc but how many times in a match do you outfield players misplace even a five yard pass. I guarantee it happens multiple times, but no-one jumps on that particular bandwagon. The only difference is that an outfield player’s balls up doesn’t normally lead to a goal, the keeper’s sometimes does, the mistake is the same.

YOU CANNOT DEFEND THE INDEFENDIBLE

Edited August 18 by Charlie Wayman

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

good point. In the  United Fulham game Leno did exactly the same and got away with it. Just watching the highlights of the other games I saw so many errors, not just from keepers but defenders ad midfielders losing the ball. I think as fans we sometimes forget that players from other teams also make mistakes. It's not just ours.

It's probably not the best time/thread to defend McCarthy, but all keepers are being asked to play like outfielders these days and they almost all fuck up from time to time. It's so tough. They have to have touch, passing range and accuracy...and decision making. Even proper outfield players make errors in those three department. The keepers are bound to do the same. 

 

Yeah, and Martin's system, when it was working with Baz, made a lot more use of this than others I saw.

I think that this brings a bit more pressure on Alex, as they know it's not a strong suit, that there will be times he'll be expected to do it anyway, that it's now in the PL, and that errors are going to happen with it anyway (shout out to Baz, who was excellent in that department).

An error to be sure, but there's always more going on than just the pass out itself.

There were also a lot of misses in yesterday's highlights. Some a lot easier than anything we had.

[pingpong]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Exactly right. Can you imagine how someone like Guimaraes would have reacted - he'd still be rolling around clutching his head now as thousands of Geordies screamed for the perpetrator to be sent off. Schar was stupid and deserved the red card.

Bruno did go down after a feather touch near the end.

The (geordie) commentator said it "showed his experience"...

[Saint Billy]

RM's comments about Yuki:

“He delivered a couple of really brilliant crosses but we’re playing against ten men. We wanted to bring a winger on the pitch".

A bit strange considering he highlights two brilliant crosses.

 

[Chez]

8 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

If he was under intense, immediate pressure from an attacking player who forced the error, then you would have a point. But that really wasn't the case. 

Nobody was pressing him and he had some perfectly good options to pass the ball out. There was absolutely no need to hoof it in that scenario.

It was a simple brain fart.

It was an error. I am certainly not arguing against that. What I am arguing with is your assessment that our tactics had nothing to do with it. McCarthy may well have hoofed it at other times, but that underlying team desire does rub off on him and will have impacted his decision-making.  

He had less time that you think. When he makes the pass an opponent is 5 yards away. If he had controlled the ball rather than pass first time, he'd of been in trouble. 

 

[HKsaint]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No. Law 4,

• shinguards – these must be made of a suitable material and be of an appropriate size to provide reasonable protection and be covered by the socks. Players are responsible for the size and suitability of their shinguards

 

[austsaint]

35 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Kinda hard to judge us from that game, the Bbd incident getting the red card gave us the opportunity to play our possession football.. then obviously after they scored from McCarthy’s horrific pass  we had all the ball whilst they defended in numbers which is always quite hard to break down.

Thought Aribo put in a Motm performance yesterday he was pulling strings, playing disguised clever defence  splitting passes very clever use of the ball. He’s got a real intelligent playmaker side to his game that he doesn’t yet get enough credit for 

Airibo was stunningly good;  only KWP edged him for Saint's best on the day.   Airibo seems so much fitter and invested now - his touch, hold up play and guile are at home with Prem standards.

[Whitey Grandad]

21 minutes ago, Chez said:

It was an error. I am certainly not arguing against that. What I am arguing with is your assessment that our tactics had nothing to do with it. McCarthy may well have hoofed it at other times, but that underlying team desire does rub off on him and will have impacted his decision-making.  

He had less time that you think. When he makes the pass an opponent is 5 yards away. If he had controlled the ball rather than pass first time, he'd of been in trouble. 

 

And it’s obvious where the pass is going. The ball never even left the box, and for what? Two passes later and all being well the ball ends up just outside our penalty area on our left hand side. When Stephens received the ball he had nobody upfield of him and could have simply turned to his right and we’d have been in the situation we were hoping for anyway.

[Jack]

28 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

RM's comments about Yuki:

“He delivered a couple of really brilliant crosses but we’re playing against ten men. We wanted to bring a winger on the pitch".

A bit strange considering he highlights two brilliant crosses.

 

Yeah that’s bizarre. Sugawara was far more of a threat going forward than Edozie and KWP was class on the left. Caused Newcastle loads of issues, so surprised he changed it at HT

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Jack said:

Yeah that’s bizarre. Sugawara was far more of a threat going forward than Edozie and KWP was class on the left. Caused Newcastle loads of issues, so surprised he changed it at HT

alternatively, we could have gone to a flat back four and brought a winger on.

[pimpin4rizeal]

What did everyone make of Edozie yesterday ?  I thought he did look absolutely brimming with confidence  running at tino at every opportunity .i think he was a handful even though nothing quite cane off . Wasn’t it him that got the cross in for archers header near the end ?   Tad frustrating but I liked his confidence 

think he gave us something differant to BBD though who tended to drift wide anyway

Edited August 18 by pimpin4rizeal

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

What did everyone make of Edozie yesterday ?  I thought he did look absolutely brimming with confidence  running at tino at every opportunity .i think he was a handful even though nothing quite cane off . Wasn’t it him that got the cross in for archers header near the end ?   Tad frustrating but I liked his confidence 

think he gave us something differant to BBD though who tended to drift wide anyway

I do like Edozie but his lack of end product (more often than not) is frustrating. That said, if he had a consistent end product then he'd be playing for a bigger club than Saints...

Edited August 18 by trousers

[trousers]

43 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

RM's comments about Yuki:

“He delivered a couple of really brilliant crosses but we’re playing against ten men. We wanted to bring a winger on the pitch".

A bit strange considering he highlights two brilliant crosses.

 

Just when I thought I was really getting to like Russ he comes out with mumbo-jumbo like that...

Taking off one of our best players, regardless of the circumstances, is bizarre logic if you ask me... Russ overthinking again? (As he admitted to doing several times last season).

K.I.S.S.

Edited August 18 by trousers

[Jack]

17 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

What did everyone make of Edozie yesterday ?  I thought he did look absolutely brimming with confidence  running at tino at every opportunity .i think he was a handful even though nothing quite cane off . Wasn’t it him that got the cross in for archers header near the end ?   Tad frustrating but I liked his confidence 

think he gave us something differant to BBD though who tended to drift wide anyway

One trick pony who’s never produced IMO. He’s just stepovers and running down blind alleys. It might look exciting as he can beat a man but it’s worthless if there’s no final pass, which there isn’t. 

[austsaint]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

I do like Edozie but his lack of end product (more often than not) is frustrating. That said, if he had a consistent end product then he'd be playing for a bigger club than Saints...

One of the things that made  Saints unpredictable and threatening  in the first half was the wing backs; KWP in particular, spending time in the midfield and finding space through the channels for Aribo, Arma and BBD to exploit.    When Edozie came on, we played a slower build up game with predictable service wide - not helped by Newcastle dropping deeper and happy to concede the predictable Saints majority possession.  Despite this, Edozie looked dangerous at times, but as you say Trousers, his efforts often seem to fizzle out.   I rate him though as an improver.

[drd]

2 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Well as a Cherries fan you will be more than most familiar with the dark arts of the game that Howe has mastered over the years so it was ironic to see him played at his own game. Had the boot been on the other foot the Newcastle lad would have done eactly the same and Howe knows it, he would have demanded it probably.

Don't deny that for a moment. The only surprise for me as a smaller club away to one of the media favourites, VAR didn't overturn the decision. 

It was a red card but if Diaz didn't react as he did, I bet it's not given. One of the reasons to hate the PL  (oh and smaller cub compared to Newcastle not us; I'm not daft)

Edited August 18 by drd

[beatlesaint]

13 minutes ago, drd said:

Don't deny that for a moment. The only surprise for me as a smaller club away to one of the media favourites, VAR didn't overturn the decision. 

It was a red card but if Diaz didn't react as he did, I bet it's not given. One of the reasons to hate the PL  (oh and smaller cub compared to Newcastle not us; I'm not daft)

You’re right actually, I was surprised VAR didn’t try to find a reason to at least even things up shall we say 😉

[Chez]

 

32 minutes ago, trousers said:

I do like Edozie but his lack of end product (more often than not) is frustrating. That said, if he had a consistent end product then he'd be playing for a bigger club than Saints...

Loves Edozie's willingness to try and beat a man, but worry whether he is quite good enough, even for us. Still got time on his side, but we are going to need a few goals and assists this season from him or our other wingers this season or we go down. 

[trousers]

17 minutes ago, drd said:

It was a red card but if Diaz didn't react as he did, I bet it's not given

Nail on head. That's why players often need to over-react because there's a chance the ref will gloss over what was a genuine red card if they don't. As someone pointed out on here yesterday, we had an example of that last season (?) where one of our players didn't react and the red card wasn't given. To coin a phrase, we've been the "nice son-in-laws" of top flight football for far too long and it's about time we did what every other team in the land does when it comes to this kind of thing. Yes, it's a sad reflection of where the game has got to but it's a case of "if you can't beat them...."

Edited August 18 by trousers

[S-Clarke]

39 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

What did everyone make of Edozie yesterday ?  I thought he did look absolutely brimming with confidence  running at tino at every opportunity .i think he was a handful even though nothing quite cane off . Wasn’t it him that got the cross in for archers header near the end ?   Tad frustrating but I liked his confidence 

think he gave us something differant to BBD though who tended to drift wide anyway

He frustrates me to be honest. He's got the ability to beat a man, but his end product is so often lacking. We will need him to hit some numbers this year, it's his 2nd season of regular pro football so time is still on his side, but I'd have hoped by now we'd start seeing some end product from him - but he's still exactly the same as he was 2 years ago in my eyes. Jurys out, may never quite make the grade at the top level because of that.

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He frustrates me to be honest. He's got the ability to beat a man, but his end product is so often lacking. We will need him to hit some numbers this year, it's his 2nd season of regular pro football so time is still on his side, but I'd have hoped by now we'd start seeing some end product from him - but he's still exactly the same as he was 2 years ago in my eyes. Jurys out, may never quite make the grade at the top level because of that.

Have to agree.

I'd say it's his 3rd pro season. He played 17 times in the Prem first time around. Wasn't ready then and not sure he is now.  Might need another season in the Championship.

 

[kenneth_kenobi]

14 hours ago, Geordie said:

To be fair, we were down to 10 men. 

But you do it every game, everyone knows it and refs let you get away with it.

[Fabrice29]

5 minutes ago, Chez said:

Have to agree.

I'd say it's his 3rd pro season. He played 17 times in the Prem first time around. Wasn't ready then and not sure he is now.  Might need another season in the Championship.

 

He's our only left sided player that actually attacks the byline and goes past people. Therefore attributes that will be useful. Unless that changes then he quite rightly isn't going anywhere and certainly not to the Championship under the weird guise of "getting you ready for a different league" when he could just stay in said league and find his feet in it...like us as a team.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

What did everyone make of Edozie yesterday ?  I thought he did look absolutely brimming with confidence  running at tino at every opportunity .i think he was a handful even though nothing quite cane off . Wasn’t it him that got the cross in for archers header near the end ?   Tad frustrating but I liked his confidence 

think he gave us something differant to BBD though who tended to drift wide anyway

Edozie tried a number of different things, yesterday. He took on opponents, both inside and outside; looked to hold it and release a pass; cut in field to draw a foul or a shot, and at least once looked for one of our successful cut backs.

We got little from it. Mainly because we did nothing at a pace to worry a Newcastle side, happy to be given time to get compact and hold a lead. As a unit, including Edozie, we needed to work them at a higher tempo, and use that, and them getting that ball, to create space and punish them. Instead, we had loads of possession but didn't move them about much.

So, he was varied but everything was too slow a Ross our attack and played into their hands.

[kenneth_kenobi]

The disallowed goal - why did Stephens even touch it, looked like it would have gone in off the post!

[Saint Fan CaM]

20 hours ago, Hopper said:

The are no ‘easy 3 points’ in this league 

If we don’t sort out the keeper we’ll not be seeing many instances of 3 points whatsoever!

[trousers]

40 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

He's our only left sided player that actually attacks the byline and goes past people.

Agree, but if 9/10 he doesn't deliver a decent pass or a crack at goal once he's "attacked the byline and gone past people" then it doesn't really matter how good he is at the first bit, does it...?

Edited August 18 by trousers

[Fabrice29]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

Agree, but if 9/10 he doesn't deliver a decent pass or a crack at goal once he's "attacked the byline and gone past people" then it doesn't really matter how good he is at the first bit, does it...?

Well having someone doing it 1/10 times is better than nobody doing it at all. I agree his final ball needs work but don't agree the answer to that is learn somewhere else unless we're going to replace him, because we will need those attributes at times (like yesterday for example when we're up against a deep defence then having a wide player to stretch it is better than not).

[Saint Matty 76]

I've always wanted to support Edozie but at this point I'm actually not sure what he's better at than Amo-Ameyaw.

[East Kent Saint]

Interesting that Reya did exactly the same thing as Mc Carthy but the shot was too near Reya so no goal .

 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Well having someone doing it 1/10 times is better than nobody doing it at all.

Fair enough, although I'd venture that someone who can do it 2/10 is better than someone who does it 1/10...

Agree that we should give him more time to improve his end product though 👍