Newcastle 1-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Harry_SFC]

6 minutes ago, Geordie said:

Back and not on the wind up or owt.

Thought you played well before the red card, while we were taking time to get our rhythm. Then the red card changed everything. We had to basically camp in, surrender possession and hope to pick you off on the counter, or something. 

You had your chances , but just couldn't seem to take them. Quite a lot of your attacks seemed to fizzle out. 

On the red... Look, I get that I'm biased but at the time and on watching the clips, it looks to me like Diaz barrels Schar over, Schar gets up and shoves him, then both players push their heads forward and Diaz goes down like he's been shot. Is that worthy of a red card? I don't think it should be, no. It's not violent, or anything more than handbags. But that's not the law.  By the letter of the law I think both should have been sent off, but with Diaz's theatrics that was never going to happen. Schar is stupid, Diaz is sly. I expect we'll appeal.

Either way it ended any real concerted attacking intent from us. It's 3pts I wasn't expecting after Schar lost his rag, so I can't complain. Might accelerate a couple of new transfer deals too 

I genuinely hope all those that made the long, long, very long trip up enjoyed it as much as they could. 

Yeah the red card was probably the worst thing that could happen to us. We're just not very good at breaking teams down and as soon as you sat back I knew we'd be in for a long afternoon of watching us pass the ball around infront of your box.

[saintant]

54 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's a really odd mindset that he'd play well for a handful of games at the end of the championship season and that somehow earns him a two year contract in the premier league? What happened to being ruthless? He could have gone elsewhere and left as a bit of a cult hero getting us up with well wishes from everyone. I don't understand it. 

It's known as poor decision making. It was knee-jerk based on a couple of decent games but proper football people would have been much smarter - they'd have thanked him and sent him on his way knowing his wages were being saved for someone better.

Edited August 17 by saintant

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Yeah the red card was probably the worst thing that could happen to us. We're just not very good at breaking teams down and as soon as you sat back I knew we'd be in for a long afternoon of watching us pass the ball around infront of your box.

That's just not true, we're perfectly capable of losing against eleven men, even if we did start brightly today. We're not very good at breaking teams down because we have a team full of Championship players, until that changes we're going to keep having the same problem.

[kenneth_kenobi]

Irrespective of our performance, Newcastle proved once again that they are the masters of time wasting and slowing/interrupting the game.   Every time I see them play they are the same.

[Harry_SFC]

12 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

That's just not true, we're perfectly capable of losing against eleven men, even if we did start brightly today. We're not very good at breaking teams down because we have a team full of Championship players, until that changes we're going to keep having the same problem.

Well yes we are perfectly capable of it but the space we were enjoying before the red card closed up completely - before the sending off Newcastle weren't really pressing as well as they should have and it gave us a lot of encouragement.

[Miltonaggro]

10 minutes ago, kenneth_kenobi said:

Irrespective of our performance, Newcastle proved once again that they are the masters of time wasting and slowing/interrupting the game.   Every time I see them play they are the same.

Fans are now mostly full of shit too - the Man City virus.

[Sheaf Saint]

3 hours ago, Dragon_man said:

But it wasn't a mistake by AM really was it? I'm sure he was under orders not to hoof it and try a suicidal pass.

Sorry but this is just bollocks. There were other occasions when he did hoof the ball when there were no other options.

There was no real danger and a pass out was a perfectly viable option in that situation. He had time to control it and pick a better pass, but the simple fact is he switched off and fucked up spectacularly.

That was 100% on Macca and nothing whatsoever to do with tactics or instructions.

[Saint86]

7 minutes ago, kenneth_kenobi said:

Irrespective of our performance, Newcastle proved once again that they are the masters of time wasting and slowing/interrupting the game.   Every time I see them play they are the same.

Yeah, they're a horrible team. Niggly, every decision they are onto the refs about. Always giving back chat to our players. Basically scrapping and giving out from the word go - and its been this way for years. Their fans are no different. Absolute Mongrols the lot of them.

Still we did absolutely outplay them - there is no denying that we only lost because of 1 mistake. Given we will improve significantly from this point i feel a lot more positive about the season. Pretty funny how pissed off newcastle got only having 32% of the possession before the red card.

[Geordie]

25 minutes ago, kenneth_kenobi said:

Irrespective of our performance, Newcastle proved once again that they are the masters of time wasting and slowing/interrupting the game.   Every time I see them play they are the same.

To be fair, we were down to 10 men. 

[OttawaSaint]

1 hour ago, Geordie said:

Back and not on the wind up or owt.

Thought you played well before the red card, while we were taking time to get our rhythm. Then the red card changed everything. We had to basically camp in, surrender possession and hope to pick you off on the counter, or something. 

You had your chances , but just couldn't seem to take them. Quite a lot of your attacks seemed to fizzle out. 

On the red... Look, I get that I'm biased but at the time and on watching the clips, it looks to me like Diaz barrels Schar over, Schar gets up and shoves him, then both players push their heads forward and Diaz goes down like he's been shot. Is that worthy of a red card? I don't think it should be, no. It's not violent, or anything more than handbags. But that's not the law.  By the letter of the law I think both should have been sent off, but with Diaz's theatrics that was never going to happen. Schar is stupid, Diaz is sly. I expect we'll appeal.

Either way it ended any real concerted attacking intent from us. It's 3pts I wasn't expecting after Schar lost his rag, so I can't complain. Might accelerate a couple of new transfer deals too 

I genuinely hope all those that made the long, long, very long trip up enjoyed it as much as they could. 

Yeah, I didn't like the rolling around at all but at the time I just thought it was stupid of Schar to put himself in that position knowing full well what would happen.

We've been shafted so many times for stuff like this so it was welcome to get a bit lucky.

But it was our club's short sightedness that shafted us today,  not getting in an EPL quality keeper when it's been an issue since the Boruc/Forster days.

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, Geordie said:

To be fair, we were down to 10 men. 

To be fair, you’ve built up a reputation for it.

On another note, I don’t know who the ‘pundit’ was on telly but he was obviously from the north east and couldn’t hide his bias. It was a cringeworthy performance at times from someone who couldn’t even pretend at neutrality. No doubt that Chilean Ben had a spectacular tumble of the ‘headbutt’ but it was utterly stupid by the Newcastle defender. Said pundit was outraged, saying BBD had conned the ref, he’d conned VAR, and it was just staggering that common sense hadn’t prevailed. He then spent much of the second half praising the barcodes for being ‘clever’, taking time off the clock, going down to ease down a few seconds, and basically hat tipping some of the downright shittery that was going on.

[OttawaSaint]

Just watched the extended highlights and noticed that that we are very keen to get the ball to the goal line and then cut it back into the box. A move we used a lot last year.

But today, often the passer wouldn't really look up at his options and make a good pass. Instead many dangerous situations resulted in an easy clearance. 

We've got to be way better at making the run and picking the pass. This ain't the Championship.

[Colinjb]

2 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Just watched the extended highlights and noticed that that we are very keen to get the ball to the goal line and then cut it back into the box. A move we used a lot last year.

But today, often the passer wouldn't really look up at his options and make a good pass. Instead many dangerous situations resulted in an easy clearance. 

We've got to be way better at making the run and picking the pass. This ain't the Championship.

If only there was a man, we could target up front. Maybe with some physical presence and a goal scoring history. 

Clearly I must be over simplifying this. Tall order to make any sense of it.

[Raging Bull]

Without trawling through this thread, how did we actually play today? 

[saint francis]

WHAT A MISS!!  The BBC shout as Brereton Diaz on target shot gets deflected.  

[Colinjb]

8 minutes ago, Raging Bull said:

Without trawling through this thread, how did we actually play today? 

Basically: Well.

Familiar weaknesses cost us. 

[Andy Hill]

No surprise that a goal keeping error cost us - same as last year. Just like getting a striker this is an area that we continually fail to strengthen.

[sfc4prem]

4 minutes ago, Andy Hill said:

No surprise that a goal keeping error cost us - same as last year. Just like getting a striker this is an area that we continually fail to strengthen.

Yet here we find ourselves, back in the top league 

[Nordic Saint]

4 hours ago, The Kraken said:

I’d have to say yes, it very much was. We know he’s crap with the ball at his feet, granted. But he was in a relatively comfortable position and basically made an atrocious pass.  Here’s the screenshot. AMC not under massive pressure but delivers it right to the feet of number 14 (Isak). He may be being instructed to pass but yes, that’s a very bad error irrespective IMO.

McCarthy has slow reactions for a goalkeeper and can't make quick decisions. He dithers. It's the reason why he lets in such a high percentage of shots on target. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, sfc4prem said:

Yet here we find ourselves, back in the top league 

Yes but it was in spite of our keeper situation not because of it. 

[woodsaint1]

Sugawara looks a fantastic signing. Roasted Hall a couple of times and put the great cross in that BBD should have scored from. Why did he go off at HT? Tactical or did he have a niggle?

If we can keep KWP, then we definitely have a full back pairing to rival some top 6 sides

[austsaint]

1 hour ago, woodsaint1 said:

Sugawara looks a fantastic signing. Roasted Hall a couple of times and put the great cross in that BBD should have scored from. Why did he go off at HT? Tactical or did he have a niggle?

If we can keep KWP, then we definitely have a full back pairing to rival some top 6 sides

It was mystifying to see Sugawara replaced at half time.   That substitution and the sending off completely changed the game and took a lot of wind from our sails.   Both Sugawara and KWP were brilliant in their wing back roles.   Sugawara got forward well, his crosses were threatening and he showed good defensive qualities.   KWP had a spectacular game - running the show in the first half as he moved into midfield space and combined well with Airibo, Downes and Diaz.   If there is any chance of keeping KWP at the Club, it must happen - he is of more value to SFC this season on the pitch and leaving on a free next season if he doesn't sign a new deal, than the fee he could attract in the next fortnight.

Airibo was very good today.  I assume he was spent on 70 minutes, hence the substitution.   He was more effective today than Smallbone who played the full 98 minutes.   Smallbone wasn't bad but he's still essentially a recycling, safe passing mid, not the attacking midfielder we need.  I'm hoping when Lesley is up to speed, it's Smallbone he replaces and not Airibo, but I suspect RM will go the other way.

If there were any doubts about Downes measuring up to Prem standard they were dispelled today.   He has got the lot - pace, tenacity, tackles well, drives forward with the ball and plays the box-to-box role.   Has to be the Club's best bit of business for some time.   Future Captain material.

There's not much you can say about McCarthy that hasn't been said.   Should never have been given the new contract, and we have seen too many errors and clangers from him over a long period of time to think it would be any different today and into the future.  Has to be replaced.

There was a lot to like about today and it was very unfortunate to come away from SJP without a point, at least.

[Convict Colony]

15 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

Later in this thread, I'm expecting the inevitable, "Oh no, McCarthy" and "passing around at the back again."

Next week's lottery ?

[HKsaint]

I am curious why Dibling didn’t wear pads. Is this allowed?

[david in sweden]

6 hours ago, Colinjb said:

If only there was a man, we could target up front. Maybe with some physical presence and a goal scoring history. 

Clearly I must be over simplifying this. Tall order to make any sense of it.

well there's always that Paul Onu ..?....oh forget it , we'll be letting him return to Turkey for lunch money and a big loss on the investment.

I would have liked to see him coming up against Dan Burn. ..

[niceandfriendly]

Expected a battering but we were actually pretty bloody good. Very disappointing result but can't be disappointed with how we played. Was Suga injured? Taking him off was a horrible decision if not.

BBD will score goals for us, and Arma will have a far better season compared to the one when we got relegated. 

Overall encouraging for the season.

The less said about McCarthy and our fucking around at the back the better.

[a1ex2001]

3 hours ago, HKsaint said:

I am curious why Dibling didn’t wear pads. Is this allowed?

Shin pads are compulsory for all players, are you sure he wasn’t following the ridiculous current trend of using ones that are too small for a five year old?  Much like the cutting of holes in socks they need to be banned!

[rooney]

The team played some good football, Sadly we knew Mac had it in him to make that mistake as we saw it in the pre-season games. We needed to be more clinical too. Sugarwara was outstanding.

[Killers Knee]

Didn't expect us to dominate against Newcastle, so that was encouraging to see.  Russball largely worked in the Premiership, it was let down by someone who truly shouldn't be in a first XI in this league.  We lacked some accountability in the final third, opting for one pass too many instead of taking the shot. 

There were many positives from our tactics and individual contributions,  and there are still some question marks over the same.  I'm failing to see the point of Edozie other than "run until you're fouled", reminds me of "crop circles" but he could also pass and shoot. 

Overall, to be annoyed at losing 1 nil away to Newcastle on our return match from the Championship is far removed from my expectation of a 4 nil thrashing.  Now if we could just get a decent keeper and a tall, athletic striker.....

[Convict Colony]

whoscored has us pegged

[obelisk]

Don't really get all this happiness with a defeat against a team with 10 men for an hour where Saints totally dominated - because the performance was better than expected. 😐

Three points is three points at any stage of the season and Saints blew it because of long-known deficiencies with the GK and in attack. The Olympics is over and there's no extra points offered for artistic interpretation come the end of the season.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Looking at the Sky highlights, another 2 'keepers played the ball directly out to opponents. Of the 3, we were the only ones to concede.

[Midfield_General]

12 hours ago, Turkish said:

The optimism is good, Newcastle always a tough place to go but when you dominate like this you have to get something

 

How does 5 shots on target and 4 shots off target equal 19 shots in total? Where did the other 10 go? 

[Mr X]

All yesterday proved is that we are going to really struggle and it will be a miracle if we don't go straight back down, the spine of the team goalkeeper and strikers particularly simply aren't good enough.  Trying to see positives in not scoring against ten men that only had 20% possession in the second half is scraping the barrel what are we going to do when team have more possession than us.

The good news is it's only one game in but how on earth are we going to correct what's glaringly obvious when we've had all summer to do so and failed! RM has some kind of naive faith that players like McCarthy AA aribo smallbone etc are suddenly going to become premier league quality players  

[Matty's Caddy]

Aribo was excellent 

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, HKsaint said:

I am curious why Dibling didn’t wear pads. Is this allowed?

No. Law 4,

• shinguards – these must be made of a suitable material and be of an appropriate size to provide reasonable protection and be covered by the socks. Players are responsible for the size and suitability of their shinguards

[Polegategavin243]

6 minutes ago, Mr X said:

All yesterday proved is that we are going to really struggle and it will be a miracle if we don't go straight back down, the spine of the team goalkeeper and strikers particularly simply aren't good enough.  Trying to see positives in not scoring against ten men that only had 20% possession in the second half is scraping the barrel what are we going to do when team have more possession than us.

The good news is it's only one game in but how on earth are we going to correct what's glaringly obvious when we've had all summer to do so and failed! RM has some kind of naive faith that players like McCarthy AA aribo smallbone etc are suddenly going to become premier league quality players  

Except all the names players, except McCarthy showed yesterday exactly how they are premier league standard!

We are bound to have games line this, through the season but if we dominate possession and territory like yesterday throughout the season we will get plenty of positive results.

Yesterday’s game hinged on lots of last ditch blocks and tackles from Newcastle. If one of Armstrong’s attempts had been a goal, Hall’s clearance and Pope’s save then we would have gone on to win. Also Diaz’ shot that deflected off the defenders thigh when going on target.

Let’s judge after next weekend when we have played Forest at home. I was very pleasantly surprised to see us against a team expected to finish top 4 be so competitive and able to control possession as much as we did. Bodes really well for the remainder of the season in my eyes.

This is not necessarily aimed at you Mr X but we do seem to have an extremely negative fan base who almost want us to fail and only Pick up on the negatives.

By 1st September I expect us to be very competitive and assuming the team continue to fight for one another and play the way they are, along with the additions that inevitably will arrive I feel positive now as to how this season will go. It will be a fight as always but we have a real chance of survival and then building on it next season.

[Whitey Grandad]

30 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

How does 5 shots on target and 4 shots off target equal 19 shots in total? Where did the other 10 go? 

‘Blocked shots’ although the BBC has 4-4-11

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, Polegategavin243 said:

Except all the names players, except McCarthy showed yesterday exactly how they are premier league standard!

We are bound to have games line this, through the season but if we dominate possession and territory like yesterday throughout the season we will get plenty of positive results.

Yesterday’s game hinged on lots of last ditch blocks and tackles from Newcastle. If one of Armstrong’s attempts had been a goal, Hall’s clearance and Pope’s save then we would have gone on to win. Also Diaz’ shot that deflected off the defenders thigh when going on target.

Let’s judge after next weekend when we have played Forest at home. I was very pleasantly surprised to see us against a team expected to finish top 4 be so competitive and able to control possession as much as we did. Bodes really well for the remainder of the season in my eyes.

This is not necessarily aimed at you Mr X but we do seem to have an extremely negative fan base who almost want us to fail and only Pick up on the negatives.

By 1st September I expect us to be very competitive and assuming the team continue to fight for one another and play the way they are, along with the additions that inevitably will arrive I feel positive now as to how this season will go. It will be a fight as always but we have a real chance of survival and then building on it next season.

I don’t want us to fail but I’d be a lot happier with a competent traditional goalkeeper in goal and none of this obsession with putting him under pressure all the time.

[macca155]

10 hours ago, Geordie said:

To be fair, we were down to 10 men. 

What I found surprising was, even before the red card, Howe had you lined up in a rigid 4 5 1 formation, against what is probably the weakest side in the Premier League at the moment.

Saints are notoriously weak at breaking sides down, who line up like that.

I can't see that tactic working against more established teams. Seems very negative to me.

[Midfield_General]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

‘Blocked shots’ although the BBC has 4-4-11

Aha - I see - cheers

[macca155]

26 minutes ago, Mr X said:

All yesterday proved is that we are going to really struggle and it will be a miracle if we don't go straight back down, the spine of the team goalkeeper and strikers particularly simply aren't good enough.  Trying to see positives in not scoring against ten men that only had 20% possession in the second half is scraping the barrel what are we going to do when team have more possession than us.

The good news is it's only one game in but how on earth are we going to correct what's glaringly obvious when we've had all summer to do so and failed! RM has some kind of naive faith that players like McCarthy AA aribo smallbone etc are suddenly going to become premier league quality players  

That's a bit strong. I think we all agree on AM, that needs to be sorted, I thought Smallbone had an excellent game and once he got going Aribo more than matched them. Neither are in the same league as Joe Linton but it is early days.

As for Armstrong, well he forced several saves. Way too early to judge.

[drd]

Interesting as a Cherries fan to see criticism of your keeper. Neto has been a bit of a liability for the last season but then you look at other fans' forums and a lot complain about their keepers 

Just look at Man U and Onana and how much did he cost them?

I think now keepers play out from the back so much, there is potential for cock up from them all.

Thought you were unlucky yesterday from the highlights. BBD obviously already up to speed on cheating in the PL; not a criticism, they all bloody do it, or players included

[Geordie]

10 minutes ago, macca155 said:

What I found surprising was, even before the red card, Howe had you lined up in a rigid 4 5 1 formation, against what is probably the weakest side in the Premier League at the moment.

Saints are notoriously weak at breaking sides down, who line up like that.

I can't see that tactic working against more established teams. Seems very negative to me.

We play a hybrid 4-5-1/4-3-3. With Gordon and Murphy pushing up when we're in attack, or when the press is triggered.

We often let teams that favour a certain style attack for a bit, waiting for them to blow themselves out a little. Then we'll become more positive and aggressive as the game goes on. 

Had we not had a man sent off, we'd have been able to press you higher up the pitch more regularly, as is our usual pattern. 

Most newly promoted sides will come flying out of the blocks in their first game back. Makes sense to wait it out and rely on your defence, instead of expending a lot of energy in the early stages of the first game.

We were wasteful in possession early on, I'm putting that down to rustiness/weariness. Especially for Gordon, and Bruno. 

[Saint_clark]

56 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

How does 5 shots on target and 4 shots off target equal 19 shots in total? Where did the other 10 go? 

They now count blocked shots separately, whether they were on target or not. I hate it.

If a shot is blocked on the line that is no longer considered a shot on target. Similarly you could have 20 shots that were never going in be blocked, and stats would show zero shots off target - making your accuracy sound amazing. 

[St Chalet]

Reflecting this morning.

There were a lot of positives to take from the game. After a nervous early start we really grea into the game and were looking the stronger side when it was 11 v 11. BBD made sure we were facing 10 for the rest of the game and in a way I am pleased we are 'playing the game', we were do soft last time around in the Prem.

The McCarthy brain fart always looked a possibility. I get the tippy tappy at the back, but he was knocking it into a hostile position even if he found a player.

Sugawara looked very promising first half, and was a strange decision to swap him at half time, I can only think it was injury or fitness related because he was one of the bright spots and the change of shape made us easier to defend against second half.

Up front we are lacking creativity from the midfield and also any form of aerial threat.

The young lads Dibbing and Amo-Ameyaw didn't look out of place and Aribo had one of best games in a Saints shirt.

Ultimately we will need to be more clinical when we have our noses in front. Our xG of 1.62 vs theirs of 0.25 probably tells that story.

[Midfield_General]

13 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

They now count blocked shots separately, whether they were on target or not. I hate it.

If a shot is blocked on the line that is no longer considered a shot on target. Similarly you could have 20 shots that were never going in be blocked, and stats would show zero shots off target - making your accuracy sound amazing. 

Nice one, cheers 👍

Another simple concept that worked perfectly made worse and more needlessly complex - chalk it up along with handball and offside.

Also if you do have to it that way, why not just add another column called ‘blocked’ so it’s clear?

Anyway. 

Edited August 18 by Midfield_General

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

All yesterday proved is that we are going to really struggle and it will be a miracle if we don't go straight back down, the spine of the team goalkeeper and strikers particularly simply aren't good enough.  Trying to see positives in not scoring against ten men that only had 20% possession in the second half is scraping the barrel what are we going to do when team have more possession than us.

The good news is it's only one game in but how on earth are we going to correct what's glaringly obvious when we've had all summer to do so and failed! RM has some kind of naive faith that players like McCarthy AA aribo smallbone etc are suddenly going to become premier league quality players  

Rightly there is a lot of frustration among the fans but I think you are wrong to say it will be a miracle if we stay up. We are all gutted at getting nothing from this game because Newcastle never laid a glove on us, went down to ten men after 30 minutes and we still contrived to hand them 3 points on a plate thanks largely to McCarthy but RM shares some of the blame because of his insistence that we play out from the back - there are times to hoof it. Had McCarthy put his foot through the ball we certainly wouldn't have lost and might well have come away with the 3 points our performance probably deserved. Having said all that there were many good signs that our football will be suited to the Premier League - we must however sign a goalkeeper, a striker and a creative midfielder and stop overplaying from the back. Having slept on the result and performance I think the positives outweigh the negative. The criticism from many is born from sheer frustration more than anything if we are being honest and I am guilty myself on that so hold my hands up.

Edited August 18 by saintant

[FarehamSaintJames]

Having watched the MOTD highlights, Newcastle really are a c**** team aren’t they.

Miss the days they hovered around the relegation zone.

[JRM]

10 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Yeah, they're a horrible team. Niggly, every decision they are onto the refs about. Always giving back chat to our players. Basically scrapping and giving out from the word go - and its been this way for years. Their fans are no different. Absolute Mongrols the lot of them.

Still we did absolutely outplay them - there is no denying that we only lost because of 1 mistake. Given we will improve significantly from this point i feel a lot more positive about the season. Pretty funny how pissed off newcastle got only having 32% of the possession before the red card.

Have you seen footage from the tunnel at half time where one of theirs tries putting it on Diaz, bunch of cnts hopefully we have the water in the away dressing room on extra cold when they come down