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Newcastle 1-0 Saints - Match Thread


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3 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

It just gets worse.

Tbf he’s done alright to not publicly dig him out too much, and he does say he recognises that the mistake will be the narrative. I reckon he’d have been ok saying ‘it was a mistake and Alex has held his hands up’ but we know that’s not really RM’s style in front of the cameras.

Just hope that such a glaring eff up so early in the season and so detrimental to our result has hardened resolve to get a keeper in this window.

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21 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Because you said having a man off is to a great degree irrelevant.  Having a man sent off actually has a significant effect on a game.  The level of significance varies from whatever your source data is. But heres a quote from the first study I called up.

On average, having a home-team player sent off was found to reduce the points the 10-man home team obtained from the game by 0.8631. Similarly, having an away-team player sent off increases the points of the 11-man home team by an average of 0.3529. Note the former number is over twice as large as the latter. This suggests that the negative impact on the home team's points from having one of their own players sent off is more than twice as large as the positive impact from having a player from the opposition team dismissed. In other words, a home team suffers a lot more from having a player expelled than it gains from having an extra man.

Since when do you get 0.86 points for a game 🤦

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Not as downbeat as some on here. I thought we put in a more than reasonable performance considering being the first game of the season against a fancied side. Time and time again I have seen many sides struggle against ten men so I will not gripe about that.

Hopefully get a decent keeper in and a bit of time for the new faces to establish themselves and we might surprise a few sides.

Only gripe is, why the hell was Yuki taken off, he was having a good game and getting some decent crosses in.

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4 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Tbf he’s done alright to not publicly dig him out too much, and he does say he recognises that the mistake will be the narrative. I reckon he’d have been ok saying ‘it was a mistake and Alex has held his hands up’ but we know that’s not really RM’s style in front of the cameras.

Just hope that such a glaring eff up so early in the season and so detrimental to our result has hardened resolve to get a keeper in this window.

Tbf AMc would not do that off his own back. He does it because he is told to. I think it is absolute nonsense- goes against everything we were told as kids. He is an average GK  making him commit suicide like that will destroy him. It has to stop! Even Pickford sends it long when no safe short pass is on.

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So predictable. We really deserved to get at least a point. Predictable that the difference was the goalkeepers - one makes a worldclass howler, the other a worldclass save. McCarthy I credit with getting us promoted but we all know we need a stronger 'keeper. What is happening with Sam Johnston? Anyone?

Thought KWP was outstanding. Sugawara brilliant - subbed too early - Edozie predictable even if tricksy.

That was just screaming for some more direct balls into short diagonal runs in the middle looking for a rebound or deflection.

Do we understand we can attempt to score from outside the 6-yard box? It's called shooting.

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6 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Tbf he’s done alright to not publicly dig him out too much, and he does say he recognises that the mistake will be the narrative. I reckon he’d have been ok saying ‘it was a mistake and Alex has held his hands up’ but we know that’s not really RM’s style in front of the cameras.

Just hope that such a glaring eff up so early in the season and so detrimental to our result has hardened resolve to get a keeper in this window.

But it wasn't a mistake by AM really was it? I'm sure he was under orders not to hoof it and try a suicidal pass. The instinct for any goalie in today's situation  would be to boot it, but no, in his ear is probably Martin's instructions .... pass it. 

I hear the argument about passing out from the back, but away from home, under pressure, near half time, just boot it !!!

 

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Just now, Saint Billy said:

Not as downbeat as some on here. I thought we put in a more than reasonable performance considering being the first game of the season against a fancied side. Time and time again I have seen many sides struggle against ten men so I will not gripe about that.

Hopefully get a decent keeper in and a bit of time for the new faces to establish themselves and we might surprise a few sides.

Only gripe is, why the hell was Yuki taken off, he was having a good game and getting some decent crosses in.

Definitely this. I thought he was creating all sorts of problems. And although BBD 50p headed one cross, that looked like it might it might be a productive supply line. Also thought KWP was brilliant first half, just popping up everywhere.

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3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Definitely this. I thought he was creating all sorts of problems. And although BBD 50p headed one cross, that looked like it might it might be a productive supply line. Also thought KWP was brilliant first half, just popping up everywhere.

It was a really odd decision if Yuki wasn't injured. The two wingbacks were so good - KWP actually looked more comfortable coming into the middle onto his right foot. Then he decided to change it at half time. Weird.

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1 minute ago, Dragon_man said:

But it wasn't a mistake by AM really was it? I'm sure he was under orders not to hoof it and try a suicidal pass. The instinct for any goalie in today's situation  would be to boot it, but no, in his ear is probably Martin's instructions .... pass it. 

I hear the argument about passing out from the back, but away from home, under pressure, near half time, just boot it !!!

 

I’d have to say yes, it very much was. We know he’s crap with the ball at his feet, granted. But he was in a relatively comfortable position and basically made an atrocious pass.  Here’s the screenshot. AMC not under massive pressure but delivers it right to the feet of number 14 (Isak). He may be being instructed to pass but yes, that’s a very bad error irrespective IMO.

IMG-0159.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Dragon_man said:

I hear the argument about passing out from the back, but away from home, under pressure, near half time, just boot it !!!

There are two aspects to his mistake: one his decision making and he and the manager should accept that in those circumstances a boot is an acceptable alternative, the second is the actual pass after he made his decision was feek and weeble. Most keepers when they panic boot it long: McCarthy panics and gifts it to the opposition and I just hope today's incident hastens the arrival of a new keeper.

I suspect the Yuki and KWP substitutions were a fitness issue and that on another occasion they might stay on. But on that showing I don't think we'll keep KWP..

 

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2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I’d have to say yes, it very much was. We know he’s crap with the ball at his feet, granted. But he was in a relatively comfortable position and basically made an atrocious pass.  Here’s the screenshot. AMC not under massive pressure but delivers it right to the feet of number 14 (Isak). He may be being instructed to pass but yes, that’s a very bad error irrespective IMO.

IMG-0159.jpg

Why doesn't he simply control the ball and pass it to the player to his right?

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5 minutes ago, saintant said:

Why doesn't he simply control the ball and pass it to the player to his right?

Even looks like Smallbone is telling him to do that.

Theres definitely a way to pass it out to the left from there but it’s the risky option given Newcastles high line. The wrong decision made and executed spectacularly badly.

 

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Weak goalkeeping and failing to take our chances.

Funny that....we've only been crying out for a new GK and striker for months, if not years. Both positions badly need addressed by the end of month. Throw in O'Riley too and it'll have been a good window

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I thought we looked great today. Pretty bummed out we took off Sugawara who looked brilliant. No idea why we played Edozie. Bereton Diaz was a nuisance which I like. Still think we need some more quality in attacking areas and McCarthy needs to replaced ASAP. 

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24 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

Not as downbeat as some on here. I thought we put in a more than reasonable performance considering being the first game of the season against a fancied side. Time and time again I have seen many sides struggle against ten men so I will not gripe about that.

Hopefully get a decent keeper in and a bit of time for the new faces to establish themselves and we might surprise a few sides.

Only gripe is, why the hell was Yuki taken off, he was having a good game and getting some decent crosses in.

I thought we put in a very good performance. That said, if BD puts that chance away, and AM doesn't do such a bad job of following daft instructions, we win away at Newcastle. I'm a hell of a lot more optimistic after that than I was at 3.00 today. 

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I feel quite positive despite the result. We've got the new midfielder for next week, I think play AA on the right and Archer in the middle, put the new midfielder in the middle next to Downes. AM only made one mistake, but I think a new goalie would be good. I also think TP could be useful this season

Saints dominated throughout, and kept their energy until the end. 

Forest will be the first marker. 

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1 minute ago, James G said:

I feel quite positive despite the result. We've got the new midfielder for next week, I think play AA on the right and Archer in the middle, put the new midfielder in the middle next to Downes. AM only made one mistake, but I think a new goalie would be good. I also think TP could be useful this season

Saints dominated throughout, and kept their energy until the end. 

Forest will be the first marker. 

I'd have liked to have seen TP off the bench today, just to give us an extra option - stretch them out wide and hit the big man with crosses, as well as having Cameron stretching them down the channels, and feeding off knock downs. 

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1 minute ago, James G said:

I feel quite positive despite the result. We've got the new midfielder for next week, I think play AA on the right and Archer in the middle, put the new midfielder in the middle next to Downes. AM only made one mistake, but I think a new goalie would be good. I also think TP could be useful this season

Saints dominated throughout, and kept their energy until the end. 

Forest will be the first marker. 

Archer isn't ready to play and shouldn't have been brought on. He clearly was a spectator and hardly got involved. 4 of the 5 substitutions made us worse and Onuachu should have been on the bench. Newcastle would have enjoyed a 6'-8" player in their goal area.

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5 minutes ago, egg said:

I thought we put in a very good performance. That said, if BD puts that chance away, and AM doesn't do such a bad job of following daft instructions, we win away at Newcastle. I'm a hell of a lot more optimistic after that than I was at 3.00 today. 

I’m choosing to focus on everything up to the sending off. We looked controlled, got at Newcastle but kept it tight, looked like we could cause 5hem problems and snatch something. A really good first 30 minutes.

I really didn’t like the change RM made at half time, I think it made us more limited and predictable.

Will be interesting seeing us 11 v 11 against Forest. I found Newcastle underwhelming throughout but as I say, very encouraged by us for the first 30 all things considered. Still think we’re limited up top though.

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It’s not so much not beating 10 men, but the manner we went about chasing the game. Same ball recycling, wide men not getting behind people, one pass too many, and more infuriating,  naive stupid fouls given away at the end. Headless, naive & predictable. We played where they let us play. When we got in to dangerous areas they snuffed us out pretty easily. 

 

 

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It's a pain to lose but until they loan in a decent keeper those margins will hit us. AMC actually did ok for the rest of the game but as RM said, that's the narrative.

I thought Howe's tactics were a disgrace. He should never be allowed near the England team. Playing a rigid 4 5 1 against us! I was really pleased that an established Prem team like Newcastle were bemused by Saints's style of play. They are so use to absorbing pressure that they didn't know what to do.

I'm left with lots of positives. Downes superb why West Ham let him go is beyond me. KWP excellent. Good shithousery from BBD and Armstrong pulled out some saves.

Edozie simply doesn't have an end product. SAA was way more dangerous. Dibling was enjoying himself, give him game time and I'm convinced he'll start making a major impact

However fairs fair Joe Linton was immense for them. That's what you get for Saudi dollars.

Not too bad a day at the office.

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I thought we played better with 11 v 11 to be honest, it was quite a bit of huff and puff by us after that point. I did see a lot of the predictions on here prior to the match, 4-0, 5-0, 3-0 etc but it was never going to be like that. First games of the season rarely play out easily and Newcastle will know for sure they've been in a game.

Lots of positives in respects of how we controlled passages of the game, but ultimately a game is decided in the two boxes and that's where we came up short. I find the Alex McCarthy situation totally perplexing, this was a guy that the club deemed not good enough to be 2nd choice in the Champ - yet now they believe he is good enough to be first choice in the prem. I know it won't stay like that though, it simply can't otherwise promotion is a waste of everyone's time. As well as giving the ball away, I thought his attempt to save from Jolienton was horrific - a normal PL level keeper gets a hand on that.

One thing I'll take away is our shit-housery, I quite like reading fans moaning about our foul play/games/antics - for so many years in the PL we were an absolute meek as shit soft touch, rolling over and getting our bellies tickled - if we're now going to be a bit shithouse then I'm all for it. The dark arts are important and it makes up for your limitations in other areas.

Lots to build on, but the ultimate issue boiled down to exactly what every single fan has said all pre-season - the GK is not good enough. It's just blowing my mind why he's here.

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When you get opportunities like this, you need to take them. We need that killer instinct. 

Strange substitutions. Edozie for Saga started the slowdown and Edozie did what he always does. Given the opportunity, Alcaraz could turn in to a star this year. BBD looks a good buy. Downes/Smallbone/THB will shine this year. Not too sure AA showed much. Archer kicking the ball out the ground is evidently a like-for-like replacement for Che. Some days he'll do well, others he'll be cack.

Predictably the lack of a decent goalkeeper and striker let us down. If Forest set up defensively next week, let's see how we go about breaking them down because they didn't have much idea today.

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10 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

When you get opportunities like this, you need to take them. We need that killer instinct. 

Strange substitutions. Edozie for Saga started the slowdown and Edozie did what he always does. Given the opportunity, Alcaraz could turn in to a star this year. BBD looks a good buy. Downes/Smallbone/THB will shine this year. Not too sure AA showed much. Archer kicking the ball out the ground is evidently a like-for-like replacement for Che. Some days he'll do well, others he'll be cack.

Predictably the lack of a decent goalkeeper and striker let us down. If Forest set up defensively next week, let's see how we go about breaking them down because they didn't have much idea today.

It's pretty unfair to put any real emphasis on Archer today - I presume he hasn't even had a training session? I do fear AA will be the same one we saw in the PL last time around. 

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57 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I thought we looked great today. Pretty bummed out we took off Sugawara who looked brilliant. No idea why we played Edozie. Bereton Diaz was a nuisance which I like. Still think we need some more quality in attacking areas and McCarthy needs to replaced ASAP. 

Agree, can't be too downhearted with performance, Newcastle got away with it , such a bogey side for us. 

Was a shame not to make more of free kicks outside the box and finishing just wasn't good enough, definitely deserved at least a point. 

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Just now, JRM said:

Agree, can't be too downhearted with performance, Newcastle got away with it , such a bogey side for us. 

Was a shame not to make more of free kicks outside the box and finishing just wasn't good enough, definitely deserved at least a point. 

Definitely need to work on our corners. Coukd do with some height to attack them at least. 

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Yes, McCarthy made a high profile error but then what keeper doesn’t? I thought we bossed the first half so we should take encouragement from that. Our season won’t be defined by matches against one of the (likely) top four which we would normally expect to lose anyway. We shouldn’t have to rely on sendings off etc. to stay the league. Great support today, and great to see RM applauding the Saints fans at the end. The guy is a class act.

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12 minutes ago, Dadthesaint said:

Yes, McCarthy made a high profile error but then what keeper doesn’t? I thought we bossed the first half so we should take encouragement from that. Our season won’t be defined by matches against one of the (likely) top four which we would normally expect to lose anyway. We shouldn’t have to rely on sendings off etc. to stay the league. Great support today, and great to see RM applauding the Saints fans at the end. The guy is a class act.

He made a mistake like that because he's nowhere near as composed as Bazunu on the ball, which was always going to cause us problems. We needed to get someone else half decent in, instead of giving McC a new contract.

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1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

I’d have to say yes, it very much was. We know he’s crap with the ball at his feet, granted. But he was in a relatively comfortable position and basically made an atrocious pass.  Here’s the screenshot. AMC not under massive pressure but delivers it right to the feet of number 14 (Isak). He may be being instructed to pass but yes, that’s a very bad error irrespective IMO.

IMG-0159.jpg

Smallbone is the only one telling him he’s got safe options out on the right. 
 

Maybe those on the left hand side weren’t expecting him to ping it straight to a Newcastle player but one of them should be telling him to play it out to the right. 
They all know as much as we do how shit he is with the ball at his feet, make it easier for him. 

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8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

He made a mistake like that because he's nowhere near as composed as Bazunu on the ball, which was always going to cause us problems. We needed to get someone else half decent in, instead of giving McC a new contract.

I reckon if you'd polled them about 95% of fans would have agreed with this. It's a bizarre blindspot for the club. 

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8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

He made a mistake like that because he's nowhere near as composed as Bazunu on the ball, which was always going to cause us problems. We needed to get someone else half decent in, instead of giving McC a new contract.

Yes agreed; but my point is that all keepers make high profile mistakes, which often lead to a goal for the opposition. AMC is not the first and won’t be the last…

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Anyway, encouraging. 
food for thought. 
Saw the geordie line up before the game and was full of trepidation. 
7 minutes in I’m thinking we’re gonna do alright this year. 
McCarthy’s fuck up could well be a blessing in disguise 

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Overall I was quite encouraged by that.

We were certainly not outclassed all over the park against a much more expensive, Top 8 PL team playing in front of their passionate crowd. Many of us feared that, but the reverse happened - we outplayed them, both before and after the sending off.

We lost because the strengths of Russball are also its greatest weaknesses - we don’t know when to turn it off. We are very good in the middle 60-70 yards of the pitch, but excessive commitment to ball retention at both ends kills us.

At the defensive end, we are over-reliant on our keeper to be the fulcrum. Bazunu could do that, even if it compromised his positioning and cost us weak goals. McCarthy flat-out can’t do it but is still required to, so we concede different weak goals. A keeper without those weaknesses is probably beyond our financial reach, so Martin has to compromise.

At the offensive end we over-elaborate our brains out, fart-arsing around until the box is crowded and everyone is marked. Our most incisive attack today involved an early delivery from Sugawara, and BBD should have scored. Different game.

If we end up selling KWP to help fund the GK and AMF we need, I still hope we’ll get Fraser back and use him on the other side. He offers pace, solid defence , and an early delivery - giving us that from both sides. And then we might discover that our strikers are better than we thought they were.

For me today definitely showed more positives than negatives.
 

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5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I reckon if you'd polled them about 95% of fans would have agreed with this. It's a bizarre blindspot for the club. 

This is what frustrates me, and has been mentioned many times on here. Our goalkeeping department has been a clear weakness for a number of seasons now, and everyone bar the people running the show can see it.

AM had a solid few games at the end of last season but the performances weren’t exactly world class, it’s probably the fact that he did the simple stuff well that made him stand out over a poor Bazunu. Why on earth that was worthy of a 2 year contract extension is beyond me.

We simply have to get a solid keeper in if we are to stay up. That performance today actually encouraged me to be fair, and I think a couple more signings could see us ok. We need an equivalent to Boruc last time we we found ourselves in this position.

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So many managers want to play out from the back these day but there are so many teams that don't have a keeper who capable of doing it.  It drives me crazy when a team persists with it even though the players are not capable.

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29 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I reckon if you'd polled them about 95% of fans would have agreed with this. It's a bizarre blindspot for the club. 

But last season Russ didn't even trust him enough to make him reserve keeper in the Championship. He made him third choice, behind Lumley, so it's pretty obvious he doesn't really rate him. 

Starting the season with last season's Championship 3rd choice as starting keeper in the PL is quite clearly barmy. Which does actually make me feel positive, because it means we can't possibly see it as the permanent solution, so we absolutely must be looking at bringing in a PL-quality starting keeper. 

Because even Saints wouldn't be that mental. Would they? 

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To be honest that was much better than I possibly could have imagined us playing. Some great build up play but just lack the cutting edge. I am hopeful that Archer will come good once he has been training with us. There were far more positives than negatives out on that pitch today. 

I am all for us playing football, but NOT in our own box, but I know this is not going to change , so we will grit the teeth and just hope it does not hurt us that often. I did say before the game that we would concede at least in that way today, but I predicted a 4-0. 

I think there are so many positives after watching that today, but know it is a long hard season and the next game could be completely different. I remember beating Chelsea at home in the relegation season and thinking we looked really good and played some really good stuff. Seem to remember going to Wolves thinking we were on the brink of something really good at the club, only to be completely garbage at that game. 

I will stick by RM and on today alone, it looks promising, but I will say it now, IF we do go down, we keep RM at all costs. 

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5 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

But last season Russ didn't even trust him enough to make him reserve keeper in the Championship. He made him third choice, behind Lumley, so it's pretty obvious he doesn't really rate him. 

Starting the season with last season's Championship 3rd choice as starting keeper in the PL is quite clearly barmy. Which does actually make me feel positive, because it means we can't possibly see it as the permanent solution, so we absolutely must be looking at bringing in a PL-quality starting keeper. 

Because even Saints wouldn't be that mental. Would they? 

It's a really odd mindset that he'd play well for a handful of games at the end of the championship season and that somehow earns him a two year contract in the premier league? What happened to being ruthless? He could have gone elsewhere and left as a bit of a cult hero getting us up with well wishes from everyone. I don't understand it. 

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5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's a really odd mindset that he'd play well for a handful of games at the end of the championship season and that somehow earns him a two year contract in the premier league? What happened to being ruthless? He could have gone elsewhere and left as a bit of a cult hero getting us up with well wishes from everyone. I don't understand it. 

Nope, I don't get it either. As a club we act very, very strangely when it comes to keepers. We never seem to just make the obvious, common sense decision when it comes to that position. It's very odd indeed. 

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1 minute ago, Midfield_General said:

Nope, I don't get it either. As a club we act very, very strangely when it comes to keepers. We never seem to just make the obvious, common sense decision when it comes to that position. It's very odd indeed. 

It's not like we even need a megastar. Someone like Johnstone is clearly an improvement on what we have now. We could have made a signing like that or similar about three years ago and sorted the position. We could have done it in any window once it became obvious that Bazunu wasn't ready to be first choice every week. 

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Back and not on the wind up or owt.

Thought you played well before the red card, while we were taking time to get our rhythm. Then the red card changed everything. We had to basically camp in, surrender possession and hope to pick you off on the counter, or something. 

You had your chances , but just couldn't seem to take them. Quite a lot of your attacks seemed to fizzle out. 

On the red... Look, I get that I'm biased but at the time and on watching the clips, it looks to me like Diaz barrels Schar over, Schar gets up and shoves him, then both players push their heads forward and Diaz goes down like he's been shot. Is that worthy of a red card? I don't think it should be, no. It's not violent, or anything more than handbags. But that's not the law.  By the letter of the law I think both should have been sent off, but with Diaz's theatrics that was never going to happen. Schar is stupid, Diaz is sly. I expect we'll appeal.

Either way it ended any real concerted attacking intent from us. It's 3pts I wasn't expecting after Schar lost his rag, so I can't complain. Might accelerate a couple of new transfer deals too 

I genuinely hope all those that made the long, long, very long trip up enjoyed it as much as they could. 

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1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

Smallbone is the only one telling him he’s got safe options out on the right. 
 

Maybe those on the left hand side weren’t expecting him to ping it straight to a Newcastle player but one of them should be telling him to play it out to the right. 
They all know as much as we do how shit he is with the ball at his feet, make it easier for him. 

He's got a head that he can move and a pair of eyes that can see so he's a bit stupid if he's not using them.

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