Newcastle 1-0 Saints - Match Thread

[sfc4prem]

5 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Sounds like we played well but were undone by a stupid mistake.

Yup. Sure our attackers will feel a little frustrated. Lots of ok chances created.

[derry]

That game changed twice. We outplayed them until the sending off and if the ball watching expert Stephens had checked the defensive line his goal would have counted. With ten men Newcastle had to defend a point but McCarthy's stupid pass set up a goal from that moment it was just a team hanging on and packing their box and double teaming. I don't get the changes. Archer is nowhere near ready to play in our system he was a waste of a substitution and worse did nothing to help us. Edozie gave his usual flatters to deceive performance. KWP was having a good game on the left as was Sugawara on the right it didn't need changing.

I felt if there was a change to be made, maybe Alcaraz for Aribo. We didn't need the two young lads, what we did need was 6'-8" Onuachu up in their box. Unless Bednarek was injured Stephens should have gone off. We looked a decent team but needed an attacking midfielder, having said that we made Newcastle look very poor before the sending off it really was three points chucked away by predictable stupidity.

Edited August 18 by derry

[Harry_SFC]

3 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Russell already knows he can't make basic passes. At least he should. Encouraging that sort of play with McCarthy is madness.

I actually think Martin doesn't want the players to pass the ball to back McCarthy because he knows how much of a liability he is. Such a poorly managed situation. 

[HarvSFC]

That was actually encouraging. Expected an onslaught, but we went toe to toe with Newcastle, a team with far greater resources than us, even when they had 11 men. The first half was a lot more encouraging than the second, but that's because Newcastle sat on and defended the 1-0, slowing the game down at all opportunities. Maybe our tactics do look worse when a team sits back against us and we struggle to break them down and play too slow, whereas when a team comes at us, we can play it around them, hence why we beat Leeds three times.

Either way, it would have been a lot harder to attract players of any quality had we been embarrassed today as we still have a few more gaps to fill. Add Lesley, a goalkeeper and hopefully Archer comes good after he's had his first training session to today's team and we look a lot more competitive.

Onto the performances - Positives, Smallbone stepped up, much to my surprise. Downes ran the midfield, like he did in the Championship, didn't think he'd be as good as he was today in the Premier League. KWP is just a class above everybody else in the team, the way he glides past the opposition and plays through balls, he needs to be kept, as while Sugawara looks like a ready made replacement, Taylor coming in on the other side is quite the downgrade. Onto Sugawara, he looked excellent today. Glided past Hall to get him booked and win a free kick in a good area and played in an excellent cross that BBD really should have scored from. Been a while since we had a full-back who can put in a good cross. Harwood-Bellis, made the step up look easy and Aribo pleasantly surprised me in the middle.

Negatives, obviously the predictable McCarthy howler and then non-effort to save the shot. See the one Pope made against Adam Armstrong, not a single goalkeeper at our club makes that save and that's what we need in this league and what we've been calling for, for years now. The set-pieces, Smallbone was good in the middle, but his delivery from set-pieces is severely lacking and they are also a vital weapon to have for teams battling at the bottom. I'd also say BBD was a slight negative today. He's very busy, but he didn't have any composure when it mattered. Hopefully it's just a case of him trying a bit too much in an attempt to get one over the Newcastle fans. He did remind me a bit of Jay Rodriguez when he first came, so hopefully he goes the same way.

Either way, that was a lot better than watching the opposition pass around a bunch of traffic cones like we saw every week two years ago, so that was encouraging. Newcastle are one of the league's better teams, we aren't finishing above them and we made them look quite ordinary. A few more quality additions and we can have a competitive eleven. 

Also, maybe this is the season Everton do drop...

[Disco Stu]

Just now, Harry_SFC said:

I actually think Martin doesn't want the players to pass the ball to back McCarthy because he knows how much of a liability he is. Such a poorly managed situation. 

Well the players consistently ignored his instructions all pre-season then.

[Saint NL]

We win that game with Bazunu in goal.

 

(I'll never say that again)

[gammon cheeks]

Kwp was causing them all sorts of problems in first half as was Sugawara ..Don't really get the subs to be honest..  Edozie offered hardly anything and we were far to predictable ...Tall Paul should have been on the bench in my opinion 

[miserableoldgit]

I genuinely dispair of some people on here. Having been watching Saints since the mid-1950's, I have just about seen it all, but the over-reaction on here today almost takes the cake. First game of the season on our return to the Premier League, away to a well established, very rich club, where we lose 0-1 and certainly didn't disgrace ourselves, and the doomsters are out in force. Could we have done better? Yes. Could we have done worse? Most certainly. We can come away from that game with our heads held high. Things to bear in mind...RM's first game as a PL manager. Integrating new players. Losing 0-1 at SJP is not a disgrace. Transfer window still open for another week or two. Most people used to say give the team/manager 10 games to bed in. Nowadays (certainly on here) you are lucky to get 10 mins! Had it not been for AM we would hopefully got at least a draw and things may have looked different, but I suspect even that would not be enough for the Marvins on here.

[Whitey Grandad]

45 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

We were away to Newcastle on the opening day as a newly promoted side.

So what's your point?

[Turkish]

Stop the Count!

[miserableoldgit]

3 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

That was actually encouraging. Expected an onslaught, but we went toe to toe with Newcastle, a team with far greater resources than us, even when they had 11 men. The first half was a lot more encouraging than the second, but that's because Newcastle sat on and defended the 1-0, slowing the game down at all opportunities. Maybe our tactics do look worse when a team sits back against us and we struggle to break them down and play too slow, whereas when a team comes at us, we can play it around them, hence why we beat Leeds three times.

Either way, it would have been a lot harder to attract players of any quality had we been embarrassed today as we still have a few more gaps to fill. Add Lesley, a goalkeeper and hopefully Archer comes good after he's had his first training session to today's team and we look a lot more competitive.

Onto the performances - Positives, Smallbone stepped up, much to my surprise. Downes ran the midfield, like he did in the Championship, didn't think he'd be as good as he was today in the Premier League. KWP is just a class above everybody else in the team, the way he glides past the opposition and plays through balls, he needs to be kept, as while Sugawara looks like a ready made replacement, Taylor coming in on the other side is quite the downgrade. Onto Sugawara, he looked excellent today. Glided past Hall to get him booked and win a free kick in a good area and played in an excellent cross that BBD really should have scored from. Been a while since we had a full-back who can put in a good cross. Harwood-Bellis, made the step up look easy and Aribo pleasantly surprised me in the middle.

Negatives, obviously the predictable McCarthy howler and then non-effort to save the shot. See the one Pope made against Adam Armstrong, not a single goalkeeper at our club makes that save and that's what we need in this league and what we've been calling for, for years now. The set-pieces, Smallbone was good in the middle, but his delivery from set-pieces is severely lacking and they are also a vital weapon to have for teams battling at the bottom. I'd also say BBD was a slight negative today. He's very busy, but he didn't have any composure when it mattered. Hopefully it's just a case of him trying a bit too much in an attempt to get one over the Newcastle fans. He did remind me a bit of Jay Rodriguez when he first came, so hopefully he goes the same way.

Either way, that was a lot better than watching the opposition pass around a bunch of traffic cones like we saw every week two years ago, so that was encouraging. Newcastle are one of the league's better teams, we aren't finishing above them and we made them look quite ordinary. A few more quality additions and we can have a competitive eleven. 

Also, maybe this is the season Everton do drop...

You will probably get an onslaught from the Marvins on here coming on with that positive attitude.

[James]

There are some seriously depressing posts on here. It’s disappointing to lose 0-1 for sure, especially given the circumstances, but most on here were predicting a drumming. 
 

if we don’t replace Macca we will go down, today doesn’t change that and hopefully RM can see it and we will push for a replacement. 
 

Overall I think we looked very very decent for large parts of the game today. A couple of additions to end the window and I think we will be just fine.

[Hopper]

7 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

I genuinely dispair of some people on here. Having been watching Saints since the mid-1950's, I have just about seen it all, but the over-reaction on here today almost takes the cake. First game of the season on our return to the Premier League, away to a well established, very rich club, where we lose 0-1 and certainly didn't disgrace ourselves, and the doomsters are out in force. Could we have done better? Yes. Could we have done worse? Most certainly. We can come away from that game with our heads held high. Things to bear in mind...RM's first game as a PL manager. Integrating new players. Losing 0-1 at SJP is not a disgrace. Transfer window still open for another week or two. Most people used to say give the team/manager 10 games to bed in. Nowadays (certainly on here) you are lucky to get 10 mins! Had it not been for AM we would hopefully got at least a draw and things may have looked different, but I suspect even that would not be enough for the Marvins on here.

Not living up to your username here fella.

A quick point on the 10 men advantage btw. It's been statistically proven to be a bit of a red herring. The number of points won/lost after a player has been sent off is around 0.3.

That doesn't eliviate the disappointment in the fact that we conceded, but considering it was an absolute howler of an individual error and Newcastle then proceeded to throw all remaining 10 men behind the ball I don't think the reality is as poor as the optics would have you believe.

Edited August 17 by Hopper

[6ft8saint]

Who wishes we were Ipswich still?????

[Disco Stu]

3 minutes ago, James said:

There are some seriously depressing posts on here.

It's depressing because everybody was predicting McCarthy would gift them a goal before the game. We played very well at times and it was all undone by a predictable mistake. Replacing him really is a matter of survival.

Edited August 17 by Disco Stu

[James]

Just now, Disco Stu said:

It's depressing because everybody was predicting McCarthy would gift them a goal before the game. Replacing him really is a matter of survival.

For sure but otherwise a very encouraging performance. 

[Winnersaint]

Everyone nailing the solution that is needed. Just one of those days. Changing dynamic 10v11.

[saintant]

11 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

I genuinely dispair of some people on here. Having been watching Saints since the mid-1950's, I have just about seen it all, but the over-reaction on here today almost takes the cake. First game of the season on our return to the Premier League, away to a well established, very rich club, where we lose 0-1 and certainly didn't disgrace ourselves, and the doomsters are out in force. Could we have done better? Yes. Could we have done worse? Most certainly. We can come away from that game with our heads held high. Things to bear in mind...RM's first game as a PL manager. Integrating new players. Losing 0-1 at SJP is not a disgrace. Transfer window still open for another week or two. Most people used to say give the team/manager 10 games to bed in. Nowadays (certainly on here) you are lucky to get 10 mins! Had it not been for AM we would hopefully got at least a draw and things may have looked different, but I suspect even that would not be enough for the Marvins on here.

You forgot to mention they were down to ten men after 30 minutes and the fact that their goal was an absolute gift.

[Tom & Gerry]

1 hour ago, bpsaint said:

Aged like milk this.

Fair enough. Some people on here express their fears, others their hopes. Today the fears won, that's football.

[Lord Duckhunter]

You don’t get many chances to take a point or 3 from one of the top half sides, when you get that chance you need to take it. Make no mistake, this was a massive opportunity & we fucked it up. 
 

We played well until they scored, but second half they adapted and we didn’t. Same moves over and over again, naive in the extreme (particularly in the last 10). We got easier to play against the longer the game went on. Subs were disjointed imo and we got what we deserved. Fuck all. 

With a half decent striker, we’d have scored today. BBD missed 2 pretty easy chances, nothing Armstrong did convinces me he’ll be any different than last premier league campaign. God knows where the goals are coming from because the way we defend, we’ll need to score quite a few to stay up. 
 

Frustrating. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

17 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I actually think Martin doesn't want the players to pass the ball to back McCarthy because he knows how much of a liability he is. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

10 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

You will probably get an onslaught from the Marvins on here coming on with that positive attitude.

Posters to watch out for...

 

 

[miserableoldgit]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

You forgot to mention they were down to ten men after 30 minutes and the fact that their goal was an absolute gift.

We all know that being down to 10 is to a great degree irrelevant. I have seen games that 10 men have lost and 10 men have lost. That is the nature of sport....it's unpredictability. If it was THAT predictable we wouldn't watch it.

[OttawaSaint]

58 minutes ago, northam soul said:

So Keeper fuck up and no real quality in the final third as we thought.

Having said that the team probably played as well as they could but how many corners did smallbone put on for their centre half to head away.

Change the routine ffs.

That was maddening. 12 corners, many free kicks. Last one was crying out for something different, Alcaraz or even let Dibling have a pop. Nope, Boner put it straight into the wall.

 

Edited August 17 by OttawaSaint

[saintoaks]

On 12/08/2024 at 12:43, saintoaks said:

This needs to be bookmarked. Problem is it's so unnecessary, bloody hard enough as it is !!

Yep, there it is 😇

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

You forgot to mention they were down to ten men after 30 minutes and the fact that their goal was an absolute gift.

Bloody helll the happy clappers seem to be overlooking this.
 

We weren’t even 1 down when they went down to 10. It was a game where we had nearly 80% of the game &  played an hour against 10, yet we never really looked like winning it. Yet that’s “encouraging”? 

[miserableoldgit]

6 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Posters to watch out for...

 

 

Marvin the Paranoid Android....

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

We all know that being down to 10 is to a great degree irrelevant. I have seen games that 10 men have lost and 10 men have lost. That is the nature of sport....it's unpredictability. If it was THAT predictable we wouldn't watch it.

😆

It really isn’t, and any statistical study out there will clarify what a whopper is a statement that is.

[Galway saint]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You don’t get many chances to take a point or 3 from one of the top half sides, when you get that chance you need to take it. Make no mistake, this was a massive opportunity & we fucked it up. 
 

We played well until they scored, but second half they adapted and we didn’t. Same moves over and over again, naive in the extreme (particularly in the last 10). We got easier to play against the longer the game went on. Subs were disjointed imo and we got what we deserved. Fuck all. 

With a half decent striker, we’d have scored today. BBD missed 2 pretty easy chances, nothing Armstrong did convinces me he’ll be any different than last premier league campaign. God knows where the goals are coming from because the way we defend, we’ll need to score quite a few to stay up. 
 

Frustrating. 

I think that’s a fair assessment.

If we want to play out from the back this season then we need another keeper but we don’t have the money to buy someone who is both a decent keeper and good with their feet so we need to be realistic. i’d stick with mccarthy but tell him he’s not required to do something he’s clearly not capable of. 

If I was a defender in that team i’d be pretty pissed off that you can play really well but be undone by the fact that your keeper is required to piss about with the ball in the box despite not having the ability to execute that strategy.

Still feel we need to proper number 9 as well.

 

 

[bangkoksaint]

Give or take, relegation will cost around £100M in revenue. I’d suggest that we could get a game changing GK for a fraction of that and still be within FFP. Someone at the club needs to do the maths coz currently AMC will put us in the £100M bracket unfortunately.

[miserableoldgit]

2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

😆

It really isn’t, and any statistical study out there will clarify what a whopper is a statement that is.

So is being down to 10 men a guarantee of defeat?

[Toadhall Saint]

12 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Posters to watch out for...

 

 

Hmmmm

[The Kraken]

Just now, miserableoldgit said:

So is being down to 10 men a guarantee of defeat?

😆

No, that’s not what I said either, is it.

[Disco Stu]

15 minutes ago, James said:

For sure but otherwise a very encouraging performance. 

Promising that Sugawara and Downes particularly look up to it at this level but I'll only be encouraged once we get a new goalkeeper and CF through the door otherwise days like today will be a recurring theme. Todays system was only possible because we still have KWP as well. Keeping him is essential if we want to play like we did in the first 45 minutes.

[miserableoldgit]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

😆

No, that’s not what I said either, is it.

So explain how it is a "Whopper of a statement".

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

So explain how it is a "Whopper of a statement".

Because obviously it’s MUCH harder to play against 10 men 

[Lone ranger]

18 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

It's depressing because everybody was predicting McCarthy would gift them a goal before the game. We played very well at times and it was all undone by a predictable mistake. Replacing him really is a matter of survival.

I don’t think it’s fair to blame McCarthy. He’s good in a number of skills but he is poor at playing out with his feet. It’s unfair to make him play that system because he just can’t do it and every time the ball is played back to him and he’s not allowed to belt it upfield (eg Jordan Pickford style) you know he’s giving the opposition hope and all of us kittens. It’s down to the manager to reduce risk by banning back passes to him except in extremis. 
At the other end of the field we have needed a quality bustling central striker for years. Like an injury free Danny Ings. They cost big money which we don’t have….or rather how many £5-15m players have we signed lately?  I’d sooner we did without so many lower calibre additions and put the money together for a real star, someone who excites the crowd and strikes fear in the opponents defence. 

Other than that we played well today and could have won if we didn’t let our goalie face situations he can’t handle and if we had someone capable of putting the ball between prem league goalposts. 

[The Kraken]

Because you said having a man off is to a great degree irrelevant.  Having a man sent off actually has a significant effect on a game.  The level of significance varies from whatever your source data is. But heres a quote from the first study I called up.

On average, having a home-team player sent off was found to reduce the points the 10-man home team obtained from the game by 0.8631. Similarly, having an away-team player sent off increases the points of the 11-man home team by an average of 0.3529. Note the former number is over twice as large as the latter. This suggests that the negative impact on the home team's points from having one of their own players sent off is more than twice as large as the positive impact from having a player from the opposition team dismissed. In other words, a home team suffers a lot more from having a player expelled than it gains from having an extra man.

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Because obviously it’s MUCH harder to play against 10 men 

The Nathan Jones school of common sense 👌

[Disco Stu]

1 minute ago, Lone ranger said:

I don’t think it’s fair to blame McCarthy. He’s good in a number of skills but he is poor at playing out with his feet. It’s unfair to make him play that system because he just can’t do it and every time the ball is played back to him and he’s not allowed to belt it upfield (eg Jordan Pickford style) you know he’s giving the opposition hope and all of us kittens. It’s down to the manager to reduce risk by banning back passes to him except in extremis. 
At the other end of the field we have needed a quality bustling central striker for years. Like an injury free Danny Ings. They cost big money which we don’t have….or rather how many £5-15m players have we signed lately?  I’d sooner we did without so many lower calibre additions and put the money together for a real star, someone who excites the crowd and strikes fear in the opponents defence. 

Other than that we played well today and could have won if we didn’t let our goalie face situations he can’t handle and if we had someone capable of putting the ball between prem league goalposts. 

I agree. We all know his shortfalls. Apparently Russell doesn't.

[OttawaSaint]

I don't get this "he's not allowed to clear the ball" stuff, what's RM going to do if he does?

Bad boy Alex for earning us a vital point!

Would RM prefer we give the ball straight to attackers in our box?

Last minute of the half, you fucking lump it unfield!

[Saint_clark]

5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I agree. We all know his shortfalls. Apparently Russell doesn't.

Or indeed Stephens.

[bangkoksaint]

Just now, OttawaSaint said:

I don't get this "he's not allowed to clear the ball" stuff, what's RM going to do if he does?

Bad boy Alex for earning us a vital point!

Would RM prefer we give the ball straight to attackers in our box?

Last minute of the half, you fucking lump it unfield!

He certainly put his foot through it enough times at Wembley!!

[miserableoldgit]

Just now, The Kraken said:

Because you said having a man off is to a great degree irrelevant.  Having a man sent off actually has a significant effect on a game.  The level of significance varies from whatever your source data is. But heres a quote from the first study I called up.

On average, having a home-team player sent off was found to reduce the points the 10-man home team obtained from the game by 0.8631. Similarly, having an away-team player sent off increases the points of the 11-man home team by an average of 0.8631. Note the former number is over twice as large as the latter. This suggests that the negative impact on the home team's points from having one of their own players sent off is more than twice as large as the positive impact from having a player from the opposition team dismissed. In other words, a home team suffers a lot more from having a player expelled than it gains from having an extra man.

I said that it was to a great deal irrelevant, simply because having a man sent off doesn't mean that you will definitely lose. It obviously doesn't help but I have seen any number of games over many years where 10 men have held out or even gone on to win. Perhaps I should be paying more attention to the 0.8631. or the 0.8631. figures......

[OttawaSaint]

7 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Because you said having a man off is to a great degree irrelevant.  Having a man sent off actually has a significant effect on a game.  The level of significance varies from whatever your source data is. But heres a quote from the first study I called up.

On average, having a home-team player sent off was found to reduce the points the 10-man home team obtained from the game by 0.8631. Similarly, having an away-team player sent off increases the points of the 11-man home team by an average of 0.3529. Note the former number is over twice as large as the latter. This suggests that the negative impact on the home team's points from having one of their own players sent off is more than twice as large as the positive impact from having a player from the opposition team dismissed. In other words, a home team suffers a lot more from having a player expelled than it gains from having an extra man.

0.8631 reduction and we fucked it up!

0.8631 reduction and we fucked it up!

0.8631 reduction and we fucked it up!

 

[LGTL]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Because obviously it’s MUCH harder to play against 10 men 

Probably up there with the worst quote in football. And Christ it’s been doing some legwork today. I’ve always wondered if it’s so hard to play against why no team have ever started with 10?

The sending off today made the game far far easier and we still managed to do what Saints do and fuck it up 😂

[The Kraken]

Just now, miserableoldgit said:

I said that it was to a great deal irrelevant, simply because having a man sent off doesn't mean that you will definitely lose. It obviously doesn't help but I have seen any number of games over many years where 10 men have held out or even gone on to win. Perhaps I should be paying more attention to the 0.8631. or the 0.8631. figures......

Literally nobody said that having a man off means you lose, but ok 👍 

[Harry_SFC]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Or indeed Stephens.

Yep. Having two players in the defensive third that can't concentrate in key moments is a disaster. 

[The Kraken]

Howe and Martin interviews are up on BBC. Russ not blaming AMC but blaming the players overall for taking their foot off the gas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c2041nprd9nt

 

[OttawaSaint]

3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Howe and Martin interviews are up on BBC. Russ not blaming AMC but blaming the players overall for taking their foot off the gas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c2041nprd9nt

 

It just gets worse.