Solving the Immigration Problem

[Guided Missile]

Because it is a problem and acknowledged on a cross party basis. So, here's some countries that seem to have a potential answer to this long term problem for all of us in the UK.

1. Japan: Citizenship is primarily based on parentage. A child born in Japan to foreign parents does not automatically receive Japanese citizenship.
2. Germany: Citizenship is largely based on parentage. A child born in Germany to foreign parents does not automatically acquire German citizenship unless at least one parent has been a legal resident for several years.
3. South Korea: Citizenship is based on parentage, not place of birth. A child born in South Korea to foreign parents does not automatically become a South Korean citizen.
4. Switzerland: Citizenship is primarily determined by descent. Children born in Switzerland to foreign parents do not automatically receive Swiss citizenship.
5. India: Citizenship is based on parentage. A child born in India to foreign parents does not automatically receive Indian citizenship unless at least one parent is an Indian citizen and the other is not an illegal migrant.
6. Denmark: Citizenship is primarily conferred through the parents. A child born in Denmark to foreign parents does not automatically acquire Danish citizenship.
7. Norway: Citizenship is based on parentage. Children born in Norway to foreign parents do not automatically receive Norwegian citizenship.
8. China: Citizenship is based on parentage, not place of birth. A child born in China to foreign parents does not automatically become a Chinese citizen.

Maybe jus sanguinis is a possible solution. Let's face it, jus soli, as practised in the US and the UK, is just not working anymore, now the old Empires are no longer in need of cheap labour. AI and robotics have changed that for requirement for good.

I'm sure Starmer et al have a better solution. Probably a poster campaign in Calais.

[Weston Super Saint]

UK - a child born in the UK does not automatically get citizenship. To qualify, one parent must be a citizen at the time of the birth.

Not sure what most of those countries are doing differently...

[Guided Missile]

5 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

UK - a child born in the UK does not automatically get citizenship. To qualify, one parent must be a citizen at the time of the birth.

Not sure what most of those countries are doing differently...

The UK follows a modified version of jus soli (right of the soil) that incorporates elements of jus sanguinis (right of blood) and parental residency status. Therefore, while birth in the UK does not guarantee British citizenship outright, it can lead to citizenship under specific conditions related to the status of the parents. 

[Guided Missile]

Let's say you've just arrived from Rwanda and manged to get settled status. Your child, if born in the UK, will then be able to claim, at the age of 10, UK citizenship and benefit from the rights that confers. 

[Turkish]

What immigration problem? Europe is being culturally enriched 

[Guided Missile]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

What immigration problem? Europe is being culturally enriched 

You can take the boy out of the jungle, but can't take the jungle out of the boy:

[spyinthesky]

Whilst having a degree of sympathy with people trying to escape violence/economic hardship in their own country, there are obvious and growing issues with unregulated immigration.
I often try to imagine how i would deal with this if I was a Minister in charge of Immigration, especially trying to deal with those arriving via Channel crossings and cant come up with a solution.
That nice Mr Farage reckons he would get the Navy to tow the rafts back to the French coast and drop them off there.
Is that his only view on the matter?
Appreciate thoughts of our intelligent posters on here.
Would the introduction of identity cards be part of the solution?
How would people arriving without passports be repatriated?

[pingpong]

44 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

Let's say you've just arrived from Rwanda and manged to get settled status. Your child, if born in the UK, will then be able to claim, at the age of 10, UK citizenship and benefit from the rights that confers. 

Which seems fair enough? You wouldn't want to deport a child of 10 yrs old who has only ever known the uk. (presumably?)

[Guided Missile]

2 minutes ago, pingpong said:

Which seems fair enough? You wouldn't want to deport a child of 10 yrs old who has only ever known the uk. (presumably?)

I'd want to deport him, if he was expelled from school for carrying a knife and threatened to carry out a genocidal attack (if I know about this threat and worked for either social services or the police). Think of the innocent lives that would save.

[aintforever]

35 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

I'd want to deport him, if he was expelled from school for carrying a knife and threatened to carry out a genocidal attack (if I know about this threat and worked for either social services or the police). Think of the innocent lives that would save.

How would that stop him attacking people in the country he is sent to?

[Lord Duckhunter]

33 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Whilst having a degree of sympathy with people trying to escape violence/economic hardship in their own country, there are obvious and growing issues with unregulated immigration.
 

I’d say “regulated” immigration is as much an issue as illegal. 
 

Personally, I don’t see how ID cards would work, there doesn’t appear to be much control in countries where they’re in use and it would involve quite a bit of upheaval & conflict. Fuck me, there’s uproar when people are asked to prove who they are when voting, imagine what it’ll be like when plod can stop you in the street & ask to prove residency. 

[pingpong]

42 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

I'd want to deport him, if he was expelled from school for carrying a knife and threatened to carry out a genocidal attack (if I know about this threat and worked for either social services or the police). Think of the innocent lives that would save.

What would you want to do with the same kid if he happened to have British parents? Seems strange to single out kids differently depending on where their parents are from. It's the criminal aspect you need to tackle, not their heritage.

[whelk]

Just now, pingpong said:

What would you want to do with the same kid if he happened to have British parents? Seems strange to single out kids differently depending on where their parents are from. It's the criminal aspect you need to tackle, not their heritage.

He’s a sad old man controlled by algorithms unfortunately. 

[skintsaint]

52 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Whilst having a degree of sympathy with people trying to escape violence/economic hardship in their own country

On a slightly different matter - I read somewhere, I think it was Sweden - that said 4 out of 5 refugees go back to their country of origin for holidays and were looking to be able to deport people who do so.

[saint francis]

Does Australia still intercept boats and process migrants at Nauru?  I imagine that's what our Rwanda policy was inspired by.   

When Boris was canvassing prior to being elected he repeatedly proposed that the UK adopt the "Australian type" points system over here.    

[skintsaint]

1 minute ago, saint francis said:

Does Australia still intercept boats and process migrants at Nauru? 

Yep still open, shuts at 6pm today. Has better google rating than the curry house I bought from the other night.

[saint francis]

Some of those Google reviews 😆

[ChrisPY]

2 hours ago, Guided Missile said:

I'd want to deport him, if he was expelled from school for carrying a knife and threatened to carry out a genocidal attack (if I know about this threat and worked for either social services or the police). Think of the innocent lives that would save.

Do you think his parents and brother should also be deported?

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, saint francis said:

When Boris was canvassing prior to being elected he repeatedly proposed that the UK adopt the "Australian type" points system over here.    

Boris has always been incredibly liberal on immigration. Government can control legal immigration now, they just don’t want to but won’t level with the public. That’s the previous one, & this one so it’s not a Tory/Labour thing. There is a consensus on legal migration, they’re pretty much in the same place. The only difference is the tories pretend they’re not, 

Edited August 1 by Lord Duckhunter

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, Guided Missile said:

Think of the innocent lives that would save.

2 questions;

Why did you start this thread today and not last week ?

 

How many children, ( presumably these are the 'innocent lives' we are talking about ), had been killed by immigrants, legal or not, in the last 5 years before Southport ? Lucy Letby was a much greater threat than any immigrant has proved to be.

Edited August 1 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

4 hours ago, Guided Missile said:

Let's say you've just arrived from Rwanda and manged to get settled status. Your child, if born in the UK, will then be able to claim, at the age of 10, UK citizenship and benefit from the rights that confers. 

How many generations should pass before any of them get citizenship ? Can the grandchildren of the Rwandan couple gain it ? Personally I don't see a  problem with the situation you outline.

What if the couple were not Rwandan but Georgian ?

Edited August 1 by badgerx16

[saint francis]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Boris has always been incredibly liberal on immigration. Government can control legal immigration now, they just don’t want to but won’t level with the public. That’s the previous one, & this one so it’s not a Tory/Labour thing. There is a consensus on legal migration, they’re pretty much in the same place. The only difference is the tories pretend they’re not, 

Yes, I understand we need the migrating labour force due to low birth rates (the US having similar issues despite all the rhetoric about the wall).  

Level with the pubic and have some sort of points system seems like the most logical thing to do.  Perhaps then the demonisation of the "bloody foreigners" might lessen a bit. 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, saint francis said:

Yes, I understand we need the migrating labour force due to low birth rates (the US having similar issues despite all the rhetoric about the wall).  

Level with the pubic and have some sort of points system seems like the most logical thing to do.  Perhaps then the demonisation of the "bloody foreigners" might lessen a bit. 

We already do:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-points-based-immigration-system-employer-information/the-uks-points-based-immigration-system-an-introduction-for-employers

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, saint francis said:

  Perhaps then the demonisation of the "bloody foreigners" might lessen a bit. 

People in favour of high levels of immigration won’t admit it, won’t argue for it and then try and pretend they want to reduce it. We’ve just been through an election campaign where Starmer said it’s too high & needs reducing, this with a massive opinion poll lead as well. You won’t find politicians willing to articulate the reason high immigration levels are necessary, because the solutions to reducing it are too politically unpalatable for them to even attempt. Far easier to try and brush it under the carpet and pretend they want it lower. 

[Guided Missile]

5 hours ago, ChrisPY said:

Do you think his parents and brother should also be deported?

Personally, I cannot believe his parents were not aware that he left the house in possession of a kitchen knife. I think they'll have to leave the country, without the need to deport them. They brought up an animal. Fuck 'em. 

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

Personally, I cannot believe his parents were not aware that he left the house in possession of a kitchen knife. I think they'll have to leave the country, without the need to deport them. They brought up an animal. Fuck 'em. 

What would you do with Lucy Letby's parents ?

[ChrisPY]

27 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

Personally, I cannot believe his parents were not aware that he left the house in possession of a kitchen knife. I think they'll have to leave the country, without the need to deport them. They brought up an animal. Fuck 'em. 

Hilarious that you think all parents of 17 year olds are aware of every move they make. I won’t make the obvious argument about white British killers and how we should punish their parents.

There’s a debate to be had about immigration and how to levitate the pressure it’s putting on aspects of our society but racist cunts like you have no place in that conversation. 

Edited August 1 by ChrisPY

[Weston Super Saint]

13 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

What would you do with Lucy Letby's parents ?

Is it not different as she was over 18 and legally responsible for her own actions as an adult?

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Is it not different as she was over 18 and legally responsible for her own actions as an adult?

No, but I suspectr that it might be different because she isn't of Rwandan descent.

[whelk]

Anyone else other than the opening poster like to knock one out while listening to Andrew Tate?

[Gloucester Saint]

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Is it not different as she was over 18 and legally responsible for her own actions as an adult?

He’s 18 next week, hence why the judge allowed the reporting restrictions on his name to be lifted exceptionally. Not that it excuses the appalling things he has seemingly done, he won’t see outside of Broadmoor or Rampton again after the trial, but some of the comments on here (not yours) about his parents and siblings are ignoring what a very profoundly autistic teenager can be like. ASD is very different according to the level and it’s huge between high functioning, higher functioning and the severe end, then you add in potentially other conditions.

Edited August 1 by Gloucester Saint

[ecuk268]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Anyone else other than the opening poster like to knock one out while listening to Andrew Tate?

I listened to Tate's comments on the Southport situation. 

He said that the lad arrived in a small boat from France last year and that nobody knew who he was or where he was from.

All total rubbish but it was re-tweeted by the gullible idiot Tommy Robinson to his intellectually-challenged mob.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Is it not different as she was over 18 and legally responsible for her own actions as an adult?

The age of criminal responsibility in England and Wales is 10 years old.

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, aintforever said:

The age of criminal responsibility in England and Wales is 10 years old.

And the age of 'adulthood'? I assume you missed that word.

[Guided Missile]

Here's a racist news article. Just shows what can happen when you import radicalised and damaged families from war zones like Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and Rwanda. 

Trouble is, no one is allowed to question or challenge why this great country of ours and its population were forced to agree to this. I doubt many of these damaged people are living in Islington. Normally the government places them in working class areas. 

We are heading for a civil war. Pick your side.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And the age of 'adulthood'? I assume you missed that word.

Didn't miss anything, just stated a fact.

[aintforever]

56 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

Here's a racist news article. Just shows what can happen when you import radicalised and damaged families from war zones like Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and Rwanda. 

Trouble is, no one is allowed to question or challenge why this great country of ours and its population were forced to agree to this. I doubt many of these damaged people are living in Islington. Normally the government places them in working class areas. 

We are heading for a civil war. Pick your side.

Civil war.  

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Guided Missile said:

 

We are heading for a civil war. Pick your side.

Whichever one you're not on.

We have managed plenty of civil wars in our history, all home grown and not directly or indirectly due to radicalised immigrants . Don't be such a hysterical big girl's blouse.

Edited August 2 by badgerx16

[hypochondriac]

11 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

He’s 18 next week, hence why the judge allowed the reporting restrictions on his name to be lifted exceptionally. Not that it excuses the appalling things he has seemingly done, he won’t see outside of Broadmoor or Rampton again after the trial, but some of the comments on here (not yours) about his parents and siblings are ignoring what a very profoundly autistic teenager can be like. ASD is very different according to the level and it’s huge between high functioning, higher functioning and the severe end, then you add in potentially other conditions.

All that's speculation at the moment isnt it. We don't know the extent of his ASD.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Guided Missile said:

Here's a racist news article. Just shows what can happen when you import radicalised and damaged families from war zones like Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and Rwanda. 

Trouble is, no one is allowed to question or challenge why this great country of ours and its population were forced to agree to this. I doubt many of these damaged people are living in Islington. Normally the government places them in working class areas. 

We are heading for a civil war. Pick your side.

I mean we aren't are we. I have a level of sympathy for some working class people who are forced to endure rising crime levels and antisocial behaviour as a result of loads of migrants being housed in their local area but I don't have any sympathy for thick people who go and smash up a small town or burn down a mosque. Everyone is just as shocked and disgusted about these girls being killed as anyone else but the vast majority of people aren't doing ridiculous things like that which will only serve to play into stereotypes of racist hooligans and not do anything to advance a cause which as I said they have at least some of a point worth listening to. 

It is true to say that we have a growing problem of high levels of illegal immigration that fosters resentment in the native population, particularly when events like this happen- I'm aware this individual is not an illegal immigrant himself but the point is still relevant. What we need is actual dialogue and a sensible plan to actually see lower numbers in order to ease tensions but as someone else said governments of any colour aren't prepared to do the unpalatable things necessary to begin to resolve things so the probems will continue and tensions will continue to rise. It's not a civil war though that's absurd.

[Turkish]

Starmar making this about the far right treating the symptom ignoring the cause 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Turkish said:

Starmar making this about the far right treating the symptom ignoring the cause 

And I agree with that too. The problem is we knew the narrative from Labour and the media so kicking off for no reason and attacking a mosque is just going to play into that narrative. Seems an idiotic thing to do from a strategic point of view and they don't even have a clear justification since it doesn't seem to be the case that the perpetrator of the crimes was anything to do with Islam. 

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

And I agree with that too. The problem is we knew the narrative from Labour and the media so kicking off for no reason and attacking a mosque is just going to play into that narrative. Seems an idiotic thing to do from a strategic point of view and they don't even have a clear justification since it doesn't seem to be the case that the perpetrator of the crimes was anything to do with Islam. 

They don't consider the facts, they see a bollocks post on SM telling them what they want to hear and are immediately triggered.

Edited August 2 by badgerx16

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

They don't consider the facts, they see a bollocks post on SM telling them what they want to hear and are immediately triggered.

Exactly which is why it was an idiotic thing to do which only serves to undermine the legitimate grievances that people have and allows Labour to change the narrative to be about problems of the far right. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

My New Model Army for our civil war.

[Guided Missile]

More Social Media Racism:

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

More Social Media Racism:

Islam does not instruct it's followers to murder 9 year old girls.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

The problem is we knew the narrative from Labour and the media so kicking off for no reason and attacking a mosque is just going to play into that narrative.  

In other words the narrative is correct. There are genuine issues caused by immigration but they are a just bunch of scumbags looking for trouble.

Even if the murderer was a muslim or an immigrant smashing up a random mosque is still just the act of a racist thug.

[Weston Super Saint]

28 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Islam does not instruct it's followers to murder 9 year old girls.

Does it no instruct to kill all infadels - I'm not saying that 9 year old girls are infadels, but it's not my interpretation of who is what that is in question.

[hypochondriac]

40 minutes ago, aintforever said:

In other words the narrative is correct. There are genuine issues caused by immigration but they are a just bunch of scumbags looking for trouble.

Even if the murderer was a muslim or an immigrant smashing up a random mosque is still just the act of a racist thug.

That isn't what I meant by the narrative. From some, it is that anyone who has a problem with the levels of immigration is a far right hooligan. 

There are genuine issues and there are a bunch of scumbags looking for trouble. That does not mean that all those who have a problem with immigration are the latter.