What a decent season looks like for a poor PL team

[Chez]

On 01/08/2024 at 18:20, SaintsFan86 said:

A decent season looks like survival, that's it. We are relegation favourites.

Exactly. Like the good old days. All fan expectations need a reset.

It will be fun. every game will be tougher than anything we faced last season. Which means any points we get will be celebrated big style.

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

1 hour ago, Tony F said:

I think mention of Bournemouth leads to a good discussion point (nothing to do with locality, imagined rivalry either).  Last season, Bournemouth batted well above their weight and finished 12th.  How did they do that with, I suggest, a modest squad, in a teeny stadium without a "name" manager? 

If we can identify and replicate some of their methods and core principles, then we could and should manage a similar season.  I'm not saying Saints should clone ourselves on Bournemouth, because our manager has his own way of doing things, but some of what they did last season could be worth learning from.

At the end of the day (season), 12th is very respectable.  Of the "mid table or worse" clubs they were only below Wet Spam, Palace and Brighton, taking 48 points in the process..

Credit where its due, I reckon.

Good (discussion) point. Yes,  we can and should certainly learn / take inspiration from other clubs.
I don't know why some of us are so helplessly pessimistic and think we are already relegated before the transfer window is even closed and a ball has even been kicked.

 

[Nordic Saint]

2 hours ago, Tony F said:

I think mention of Bournemouth leads to a good discussion point (nothing to do with locality, imagined rivalry either).  Last season, Bournemouth batted well above their weight and finished 12th.  How did they do that with, I suggest, a modest squad, in a teeny stadium without a "name" manager? 

If we can identify and replicate some of their methods and core principles, then we could and should manage a similar season.  I'm not saying Saints should clone ourselves on Bournemouth, because our manager has his own way of doing things, but some of what they did last season could be worth learning from.

At the end of the day (season), 12th is very respectable.  Of the "mid table or worse" clubs they were only below Wet Spam, Palace and Brighton, taking 48 points in the process..

Credit where its due, I reckon.

They'd have been relegated by now if they'd had our goalkeepers, and we'd probably be in their position if we'd had theirs. They got Neto on a free while we paid £12 million for Bazunu. Neto made almost twice as many saves per season as Bazunu.

Most Saves - Premier League Goalkeeper Stats

Edited August 3 by Nordic Saint

[Tony F]

3 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

They'd have been relegated by now if they'd had our goalkeepers, and we'd probably be in their position if we'd had theirs. They got Neto on a free while we paid £12 million for Bazunu. Neto made almost twice as many saves per season as Bazunu.

Most Saves - Premier League Goalkeeper Stats

I agree GK quality is certainly a significant factor.  

 

Remember the days when we had Niemi?  Maybe we overachieved in those days because we had a quality stopper.  

I agree, we really should not be happy with Bazunu (who I suggest has had his chance to improve and convince over the last two seasons but not risen to the level required) and McCarthy (who may was in a resurgent phase last season but is surely on the decline from a modest peak).

[verlaine1979]

Bournemouth had a striker who scored 19 league goals last year. Last time we had that, we finished 11th.

[CB Fry]

10 hours ago, Kristian Loekkegaard said:

I don't know why some of us are so helplessly pessimistic and think we are already relegated before the transfer window is even closed and a ball has even been kicked.

Who are these people? Because from here it just looks like a fucking great strawman argument in order to position yourself as some kind of super megafan.

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

Who are these people? Because from here it just looks like a fucking great strawman argument in order to position yourself as some kind of super megafan.

God damn. Hold it right there pal.
Who the hell do you think you are? Describing my comment as

"a fucking great strawman argument in order to position myself as some kind of super megafan"...

I don't think hostile and abusive language like that is allowed here, McFry.

For more than 4 decades I have been a big Saints fan. You?
I know SFC very well since 1980 when my support began and I love my club. You?
I always try to be positive about my club and the people who run it - especially when I feel that the people in charge work hard for progress.

I'm quite optimistic before the 24/25 season. I have explained why in a friendly way. I don't hide my optimism and I don't support too much moaning and negativity before the season has even begun as it will undoubtly do the club or fan base no good - ultimately shut down the forum as happened with the saintsforever forum back in the day (while U were a little boy wearing a diper?)

How does my optimism and joy of Saints being back in the PL make you uncomfortable / angry or whatever negative feeling??

Calling me a "strawman" wanting to "position myself" as a "super megafan"?

What's your f*cking problem dude? NPD? Troll? Portsmouth fan in disguise?


Basically, we should all be "SFC friends" here in some capacity and treat each other nicely whether we agree on discussions or not - if we are genuine Saints fans. Are you a genuine Saints fan or just here to target people for abuse?





 

 

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

Wow! 

After a difficult, painful september last season Mr. "anger management" himself, CB Fry, surprisingly jumped to his keyboard and attacked our manager.

"This is what you have fucking done to us Russell Martin.

This is what you have done.

We're on to the "open letters" to the board already, and the clocks haven't even gone back yet."

Dream comment 👆 
Received a doctorate, did ya?
 


 

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, Kristian Loekkegaard said:

God damn. Hold it right there pal.
Who the hell do you think you are? Describing my comment as

"a fucking great strawman argument in order to position myself as some kind of super megafan"...

I don't think hostile and abusive language like that is allowed here, McFry.

For more than 4 decades I have been a big Saints fan. You?
I know SFC very well since 1980 when my support began and I love my club. You?
I always try to be positive about my club and the people who run it - especially when I feel that the people in charge work hard for progress.

I'm quite optimistic before the 24/25 season. I have explained why in a friendly way. I don't hide my optimism and I don't support too much moaning and negativity before the season has even begun as it will undoubtly do the club or fan base no good - ultimately shut down the forum as happened with the saintsforever forum back in the day (while U were a little boy wearing a diper?)

How does my optimism and joy of Saints being back in the PL make you uncomfortable / angry or whatever negative feeling??

Calling me a "strawman" wanting to "position myself" as a "super megafan"?

What's your f*cking problem dude? NPD? Troll? Portsmouth fan in disguise?


Basically, we should all be "SFC friends" here in some capacity and treat each other nicely whether we agree on discussions or not - if we are genuine Saints fans. Are you a genuine Saints fan or just here to target people for abuse?





 

 

Whenever you're ready you can answer the question I asked previously. Who are these people you are talking about in the post below? 

16 hours ago, Kristian Loekkegaard said:

I don't know why some of us are so helplessly pessimistic and think we are already relegated before the transfer window is even closed and a ball has even been kicked.

 

Edited August 4 by CB Fry

[6ft8saint]

3 hours ago, Kristian Loekkegaard said:

God damn. Hold it right there pal.
Who the hell do you think you are? Describing my comment as

"a fucking great strawman argument in order to position myself as some kind of super megafan"...

I don't think hostile and abusive language like that is allowed here, McFry.

For more than 4 decades I have been a big Saints fan. You?
I know SFC very well since 1980 when my support began and I love my club. You?
I always try to be positive about my club and the people who run it - especially when I feel that the people in charge work hard for progress.

I'm quite optimistic before the 24/25 season. I have explained why in a friendly way. I don't hide my optimism and I don't support too much moaning and negativity before the season has even begun as it will undoubtly do the club or fan base no good - ultimately shut down the forum as happened with the saintsforever forum back in the day (while U were a little boy wearing a diper?)

How does my optimism and joy of Saints being back in the PL make you uncomfortable / angry or whatever negative feeling??

Calling me a "strawman" wanting to "position myself" as a "super megafan"?

What's your f*cking problem dude? NPD? Troll? Portsmouth fan in disguise?


Basically, we should all be "SFC friends" here in some capacity and treat each other nicely whether we agree on discussions or not - if we are genuine Saints fans. Are you a genuine Saints fan or just here to target people for abuse?





 

 

I think your reply was what he was talking about and I think it was friendly banter.

[SaintBobby]

On 01/08/2024 at 10:15, benjii said:

There seems to be some growing alarm that we might get beaten comfortably on the opening day. So what?

Here's a reminder of what a reasonably successful season will look like this year:

- beat six or seven of the bottom half at home (circa 20 points)

- one or two surprising home results (4 points)

- three away wins (9 points)

- 6 battling draws (6 points)

- around 19 defeats

= 39ish points and probably staying up.

Stop shitting the bed.

I agree that if we get 28 points at home...which I think you're saying we will....then we will stay up comfortably.

I just feel the wish is the father of the thought here....

[benjii]

4 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

I agree that if we get 28 points at home...which I think you're saying we will....then we will stay up comfortably.

I just feel the wish is the father of the thought here....

I agree. My main point was that people seem to be getting upset at the thought of getting soundly beaten away at Newcastle, but it's really not important. We will get soundly beaten on numerous occasions this season. The games that matter are the bottom half ones.

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

16 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Whenever you're ready you can answer the question I asked previously. Who are these people you are talking about in the post below? 

 

Answer your question? 😆
Not necessary if you can read , process and interpret information from people like yourself which I'm sure you are capaple of.
Are you not yourself the perfect example of an arch type negative **** **** fan with your negative, hostile, abusive comments on the forum - even including your embarrassing attack directed at our manager last season in September. 

You are wasting my time. Too often your comments are brainless.

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, Kristian Loekkegaard said:

Answer your question? 😆
Not necessary if you can read , process and interpret information from people like yourself which I'm sure you are capaple of.
Are you not yourself the perfect example of an arch type negative **** **** fan with your negative, hostile, abusive comments on the forum - even including your embarrassing attack directed at our manager last season in September. 

You are wasting my time. Too often your comments are brainless.

Oooooof

[CB Fry]

51 minutes ago, Kristian Loekkegaard said:

Answer your question? 😆
Not necessary if you can read , process and interpret information from people like yourself which I'm sure you are capaple of.
Are you not yourself the perfect example of an arch type negative **** **** fan with your negative, hostile, abusive comments on the forum - even including your embarrassing attack directed at our manager last season in September. 

You are wasting my time. Too often your comments are brainless.

I'll put you down as a "maybe".

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

Love and light everyone. Love and light.

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

I'll put you down as a "maybe".

Don't know what you mean.
Before I cut you off completely, because it doesn't make sense corresponding with somebody so hostile and abusive as you, I ask again:
Are you really a genuine Saints supporter? or are you primarily here because you and your personality take joy in targeting Saints fans who may have other opinions than you?  And take joy in being abusive, threatening and hostile towards our manager? 

[CB Fry]

20 minutes ago, Kristian Loekkegaard said:

Don't know what you mean.
Before I cut you off completely, because it doesn't make sense corresponding with somebody so hostile and abusive as you, I ask again:
Are you really a genuine Saints supporter? or are you primarily here because you and your personality take joy in targeting Saints fans who may have other opinions than you?  And take joy in being abusive, threatening and hostile towards our manager? 

I think it's fantastic to welcome completely brand new people to the forum like you. Hope you've enjoyed your first ever month ever on here 👍👍👍

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

20 hours ago, 6ft8saint said:

I think your reply was what he was talking about and I think it was friendly banter.

I like that interpretation 6ft8saint 👍 , and you're obviously a normal, good person, but , honestly, "friendly banter"? No I certainly don't think so..

And take a look again at the sh*t "C B FRY" (McFly or McFry seems a more fitting name for this lame dude) wrote in the forum about Russell Martin last year, including "an open letter" threat to the board of SFC - after a set back in the league. In September..

"24 september 2023

This is what you have fucking done to us Russell Martin.

This is what you have done.

We're on to the "open letters" to the board already, and the clocks haven't even gone back yet".


This dude, who calls himself C B Fry ( a name he obviously took from a well known cricketer / author / etc. ) does certainly not seem "friendly" or educated at all in normal, social  behaviour, and I expect him to try and target me continuously with the NPD or whatever he's suffering from. 



 

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

43 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I think it's fantastic to welcome completely brand new people to the forum like you. Hope you've enjoyed your first ever month ever on here 👍👍👍

Great for you McFly.
But I will never become a brand new target of yours. So forget about that.
 
You obviously suffer from NPD ✔️  -  heavy end of the spectrum.
I keep distance from such people - people like you -as should everybody else.

Very disappointing that a heavy NPD like you has managed to stay here as a member, I must say.

[SaintBobby]

17 hours ago, benjii said:

I agree. My main point was that people seem to be getting upset at the thought of getting soundly beaten away at Newcastle, but it's really not important. We will get soundly beaten on numerous occasions this season. The games that matter are the bottom half ones.

Well, yeah, for sure. Games against teams close to you are "six pointers"....and to stay up we will also need to snag some points elsewhere. Say at St James Park on opening day....

[Dusic]

On 04/08/2024 at 07:26, benjii said:

I agree. My main point was that people seem to be getting upset at the thought of getting soundly beaten away at Newcastle, but it's really not important. We will get soundly beaten on numerous occasions this season. The games that matter are the bottom half ones.

Bringing this topic back to the actual discussion point I think your point is very valid and the ability to put aside poor results is going to be very important.

However I think the first game is slightly different in that following it we play a couple of those bottom half teams, ones that people feel if we are to stay up we will likely need to finish ahead of at least one of them.

If we put in a terrible performance and get totally dismantled I think it makes it far less likely that we do well against those two, and certainly for the Forest game it would impact the atmosphere before we even start as the whole narrative will be that we will really struggle at this level.

Our starting 7 or 8 fixtures are the best run (on paper) that we have all season so we really need to be ready to pickup points from the start and a heavy defeat wouldnt be a good marker for that.

[austsaint]

13 hours ago, Kristian Loekkegaard said:

Answer your question? 😆
Not necessary if you can read , process and interpret information from people like yourself which I'm sure you are capaple of.
Are you not yourself the perfect example of an arch type negative **** **** fan with your negative, hostile, abusive comments on the forum - even including your embarrassing attack directed at our manager last season in September. 

You are wasting my time. Too often your comments are brainless.

Might be time for a walk round the block.

[trousers]

9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

I think it's fantastic to welcome completely brand new people to the forum like you. Hope you've enjoyed your first ever month ever on here 👍👍👍

It's "textbook", that's for sure...

Edited August 5 by trousers

[AlexLaw76]

8 hours ago, Kristian Loekkegaard said:

Great for you McFly.
But I will never become a brand new target of yours. So forget about that.
 
You obviously suffer from NPD ✔️  -  heavy end of the spectrum.
I keep distance from such people - people like you -as should everybody else.

Very disappointing that a heavy NPD like you has managed to stay here as a member, I must say.

Is this all you will say on the matter?

[Micky]

36 points.  If we get that I think I'll be happy whatever happens. 

[Kristian Loekkegaard]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Is this all you will say on the matter?

Yes.

[SaintBobby]

On 05/08/2024 at 11:29, Micky said:

36 points.  If we get that I think I'll be happy whatever happens. 

Nah. I just want to stay up.

[OldNick]

On 05/08/2024 at 09:07, AlexLaw76 said:

Is this all you will say on the matter?

why gang up on the poster. He may or may not have a previous life on here but he may add some interest to some debates. 

[Micky]

8 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Nah. I just want to stay up.

Last team to go down with 36 points, Newcastle United 15/16 season I think.  The gulf between top teams in the Prem is getting bigger, could've stayed up with 27 points last season.  36 points could well be enough. 

[SaintBobby]

8 minutes ago, Micky said:

Last team to go down with 36 points, Newcastle United 15/16 season I think.  The gulf between top teams in the Prem is getting bigger, could've stayed up with 27 points last season.  36 points could well be enough. 

Ok, just saying I'd rather get 34 points and stay up then 35 points and go down!

[Mr Nimbus]

On 01/08/2024 at 10:45, Kenilworthy said:

I would guess that 36 points is probably sufficient for comfortable survival nowadays.

On average, over the last 10 years its something like just shy of 34 points. 

The average goals scored by the teams finishing 17th in the Premier League over the last 10 seasons is **38.6** goals per season, while the average goals conceded is **58.7** goals per season.

Chat GPT didn't include last season for some reason. 

[Hopper]

If we're going to stay up we're going to need to grind some results... slay a couple of giants and rely on our fair share of luck.

Even with some additional business done between now and the end of the month it's going to be a challenge, but I do think we will see more fight and togetherness from this group than we've had for 5-6 seasons previous. That's all we can ask from the players. Play for eathother not for themselves and and will lose or draw I think we can be proud. If the worst happens, we regroup and go again.

Given how poor we were 22/23 it's remarkable we even made it back at all. 😅

[AlexLaw76]

17th will obviously be a brilliant season.

I cannot see how we stay up? 3 teams that went up previously went straight back down, and that was with Forest and Everton getting points deductions.

We have just not added quality to the team. Simple as that. 

[Patches O Houlihan]

25 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We have just not added quality to the team. Simple as that. 

YET

Let's revisit that statement the week after the transfer window shuts. We all know that the majority of the big loan moves happen in the last few days of the window - happens every year. I would be amazed if we didn't get at least one quality loan signing in, based on our success with loans last year.

[S-Clarke]

4 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

17th will obviously be a brilliant season.

I cannot see how we stay up? 3 teams that went up previously went straight back down, and that was with Forest and Everton getting points deductions.

We have just not added quality to the team. Simple as that. 

I do believe we have a few unproven PL players in the team, rather than players who won't ever be good enough.

For example, had we not been promoted, THB and Downes would still be playing in the PL with someone and I'm fully expecting both of those guys to prove that they are PL level without much hassle. Sugawara is another.

We also have proven PL players in Charlie Taylor and KWP in the group, so I don't think we have a load of no hopers who have no chance of ever performing in the PL. We do have some, sure, but we do also have players who will probably prove themselves to be very capable PL players - they just haven't had the chance yet.

If we supplement them well with more quality up top and in goal, we'll surprise a few.

Edited August 13 by S-Clarke