The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[hypochondriac]

Both main political parties have betrayed this country 

[rallyboy]

There's a new policy of processing people rather than the situation being artificially inflated as an election tool, hopefully it will reduce that ridiculous cost.

Labour can be blamed for that figure in maybe 12 months time, but I think it's a bit harsh to blame them for last year. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, rallyboy said:

There's a new policy of processing people rather than the situation being artificially inflated as an election tool, hopefully it will reduce that ridiculous cost.

Labour can be blamed for that figure in maybe 12 months time, but I think it's a bit harsh to blame them for last year. 

I'm not blaming them for last year. They are absolutely complicit for policies introduced when they were last in power which contributed to this situation. Of course the tories take the lions share because they have failed to sort it out which is a huge reason why they were destroyed recently. 

[sadoldgit]

Not to worry. Farage will sort it out when he becomes PM. 😉

Now how you can manage the blame Labour when the mess was made by 14 years of Tory rule? Labour have already sent more failed seekers home in a few months than the last Tory government managed in years.

The Tories managed to completely break the asylum system here. It is going to take more than 4 months to fix it.

 

[sadoldgit]

The revisionist are well at work. The focus on asylum costs works for people like Farage and his party and the right wing of the Tory Party but the simple fact is that it is down to austerity and the lack of spending on public services for many years. We all know that the NHS, the CJS, public transport etc etc etc were underfunded and all going to need rebuilding. Dealing with asylum seekers was just one area in a long line of mismanaged areas and they brought in the Rwandan gimmick to take our eyes off the ball (and it worked for some). If only they had spent the money they did on a scheme that was never going to work (if the threat of drowning doesn’t deter those prepared to cross the channel the small chance of being sent to Rwanda had no chance) on processing the backlog of asylum seekers rather than letting them fester maybe the figure in red would be lower?

The Tories had 14 years to sort it out. The party who are tough on immigration. 14 years. But let’s drag Labour into it too shall we?

I wonder why the people who focus on the money blown on asylum seeks never mention the £billions wasted elsewhere?

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/171306/4-billion-of-unusable-ppe-bought-in-first-year-of-pandemic-will-be-burnt-to-generate-power/

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o296

£10b against £5.4b. Which is the bigger issue here?

£318m spent on the Rwanda scheme. Labour’s fault too?

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/commentaries/qa-the-uks-policy-to-send-asylum-seekers-to-rwanda/

Edited 3 December, 2024 by sadoldgit

[sadoldgit]

I don’t know how I missed this. Nigel bags another liar.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/nov/28/andrea-jenkyns-has-joined-reform-uk-says-nigel-farage

[sadoldgit]

As well as reclaiming the money, it would be good to see the people responsible behind bars if any corruption is found.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg6r7zk47eo.amp

[sadoldgit]

Worrying…

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/06/labour-government-keir-starmer-nigel-farage

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Worrying…

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/06/labour-government-keir-starmer-nigel-farage

If you care about Jonathan fucking Freelands opinion it is. 

[egg]

38 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Worrying…

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/06/labour-government-keir-starmer-nigel-farage

Democracy is democracy. 

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Democracy is democracy. 

Plus if Starmer fails then why would anyone want to vote Labour or Conservative? It's hardly a surprise if people turn to an alternative in that scenario. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Plus if Starmer fails then why would anyone want to vote Labour or Conservative? It's hardly a surprise if people turn to an alternative in that scenario. 

Yep. Labour either succeed or fail, and it's hard to imagine the tories turning things around. Lib Dem will  never garner enough support, ditto the greens. Reform may all get on by default. 

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. Labour either succeed or fail, and it's hard to imagine the tories turning things around. Lib Dem will  never garner enough support, ditto the greens. Reform may all get on by default. 

Arguably thays why Labour got in this time as the only viable alternative. Will be interesting to see if Reform can make themselves credible enough for people to view them as the alternative over the Conservatives. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Worrying…

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/06/labour-government-keir-starmer-nigel-farage

Worrying 😂😂

 

Andrew Neil put it better,

“Starmer's talentless government will stumble from failure to failure while hastening our decline. Nigel Farage's Reform will be the only winner”

The people’s army are on the march and the only thing that can stop them is Starmer running a competent administration. No doubt 🤡 like you will continue to blame Nige & the voters, but the fact is if Starmer continues to fuck up, the rise of Reform will be his fault. 
 

“Seven pillars of growth, six milestones, five missions , three foundation stones” What a load of old pony. 

 

 

[aintforever]

4 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Plus if Starmer fails then why would anyone want to vote Labour or Conservative? It's hardly a surprise if people turn to an alternative in that scenario. 

True, but we all know how our system works. The majority vote blue or red like a bunch of zombies regardless of who’s on the poll card or how well they have done. Unless Starmer shits the bed Truss style it would probably end up with a Lib-Lab coalition at worst, with Reform just splitting the Tory vote. Reform need to merge with the Tories to stand any chance of power.

[hypochondriac]

48 minutes ago, aintforever said:

True, but we all know how our system works. The majority vote blue or red like a bunch of zombies regardless of who’s on the poll card or how well they have done. Unless Starmer shits the bed Truss style it would probably end up with a Lib-Lab coalition at worst, with Reform just splitting the Tory vote. Reform need to merge with the Tories to stand any chance of power.

I don't disagree. Continues to be a shame that we can't get any fresh ideas in our electoral system. 

[hypochondriac]

I'm hoping there's more context to this because on the face of it this sounds batshit insane. 

 

[Gloucester Saint]

5 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm hoping there's more context to this because on the face of it this sounds batshit insane. 

 

George Osborne did something similar with the Global Challenge Research Fund, did get some results although it was a lot more than £100m invested. The shift in Tory ideology post-Brexit became far more of an insular island mentality and they decided to make a clear shift away from the Cameron 0.8% ODA spending objective. Which hasn’t worked. 

Edited 8 December, 2024 by Gloucester Saint

[pingpong]

On 03/12/2024 at 08:51, hypochondriac said:

Both main political parties have betrayed this country 

A couple of takeaways:

1. So the tax rises were quite small, all things considered, and not worthy of all the fuss.

2. The tories really did fuck up on immigration.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, pingpong said:

A couple of takeaways:

1. So the tax rises were quite small, all things considered, and not worthy of all the fuss.

2. The tories really did fuck up on immigration.

The tax rises were small in relation to how much they are predicted to raise. They aren't small to the individuals that they affect. Your second point is undeniable although Labour must take their share of culpability although at least they didn't pretend to do one thing whilst doing the exact opposite. 

Edited 8 December, 2024 by hypochondriac

[pingpong]

17 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm hoping there's more context to this because on the face of it this sounds batshit insane. 

 

Depends what your target is.  If you want to reduce immigration, it's a valid approach? 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, pingpong said:

Depends what your target is.  If you want to reduce immigration, it's a valid approach? 

Yes if your only aim is to reduce raw numbers. If that's the game then why not pay pay them £1 million each and increase the likelihood of them not coming? 

[hypochondriac]

12 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

George Osborne did something similar with the Global Challenge Research Fund, did get some results although it was a lot more than £100m invested. The shift in Tory ideology post-Brexit became far more of an insular island mentality and they decided to make a clear shift away from the Cameron 0.8% ODA spending objective. Which hasn’t worked. 

Is that what happened after brexit? Because the stats say that the opposite happened and we let more in than ever before. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Talking of immigration, Raynor was an absolute car crash on Trevor Phillips, there’s enough housing in the UK for migrants, but a housing crisis for local people. She’d have been better off doing a Sharon Stone & flashing the ginger growler again to put him off. No wonder they’re worried about Reform in the Red wall, they just can’t deliver a coherent message on this issue. 
 

 

Edited 8 December, 2024 by Lord Duckhunter

[Gloucester Saint]

6 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Is that what happened after brexit? Because the stats say that the opposite happened and we let more in than ever before. 

That started prior to Brexit, one of the first things May did was push Osborne before he jumped. Plenty of beef there. And Theresa’s ‘hostile environment’ didn’t work either, other than to usher in the Windrush scandal with plenty of people who really were British.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

That started prior to Brexit, one of the first things May did was push Osborne before he jumped. Plenty of beef there. And Theresa’s ‘hostile environment’ didn’t work either, other than to usher in the Windrush scandal with plenty of people who really were British.

I just don't see how you can say that we became insular when we have had higher levels of net migration than ever. 

[Turkish]

13,000 non criminal hate offences recorded. It’s shocking so many people aren’t breaking the law and getting away with it but great to see the police are cracking down on it spending 60,000 police hours on it 👍

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/former-met-chief-calls-for-review-of-non-crime-hate-incidents/ar-AA1uGclt

 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I just don't see how you can say that we became insular when we have had higher levels of net migration than ever. 

Because populist politicians have manipulated the figures to stoke anti-immigrant - including overseas students and dependents in the net figures by Braverman was fraudulent as the vast majority don’t stay afterwards, don’t use the NHS and pay a shedload of fees and health surcharges for coming here. They’re visitors.

Then they sold us the lie that we’d take back control with Brexit, we didn’t. Then Rwanda would be a deterrent, it wasn’t, it was an hideously expensive white elephant.

What Osborne was doing instead was building R&D and civil society capacity in some of the countries where illegal migration is coming from to improve sanitation, economic performance, reduce conflicts. Not perfect but as part of the Cameroon 0.8% of GDP as overseas aid it had quite a good impact on making some of the potential departure nations more pleasant to live in and enhanced the UK’s soft power. Good outward-facing policy, not always working out but the idea was sound.

I don’t think £100m will make much of a dent from Lammy by comparison, but the principle isn’t wrong as it wasn’t wrong 10 years ago from the coalition. What has been counter-productive is slashing the overseas aid budget (raiding what’s left of it for the hotels and hiding more of that in the public finances), and pretending to be tough on immigration with the fig leaves above, and undeliverable slogans such as Stop the Boats and misaligning skilled visitors and essential inwards movement for the health service with illegals immigration and asylum. 

No party or government could stop it, but we can invest in two ways to slow the flows - as I’ve just described at the likely departure side, and by having legal routes with faster processing and the bulk rejected. We will never stop the flows from places like Eritrea where it’s conscription permanently from 14 for men, but we can be proactive with other nations. 

And pre-Brexit we had of course more collaborative tools and data with EU partners to manage a continental issue.

Edited 8 December, 2024 by Gloucester Saint

[hypochondriac]

Well done Wes Streeting. Finally some good news if this is true 

 

Edited 10 December, 2024 by hypochondriac

[badgerx16]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vrw9pd16do

"A government department spent almost £1,200 of taxpayers' money on two ministerial folders, official figures show,

It came as Chancellor Rachel Reeves launched a crackdown on government waste.

The Department for Culture Media and Sport bought the folders from luxury leather goods manufacturer Barrow Hepburn & Gale, at a cost of £594 each.

Other government departments routinely buy the same folders, and ministerial red boxes, from the company, which also supplies the Royal Family.

Leather-bound document holders are available in the House of Commons shop for £30.

But sources suggest the extra expense is justified to enhance the image of the government.

Government sources added that ministerial folders last for years and are used by successive ministers, with replacements only being ordered when the need arises."

 

Edited 10 December, 2024 by badgerx16

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vrw9pd16do

"A government department spent almost £1,200 of taxpayers' money on two ministerial folders, official figures show,

It came as Chancellor Rachel Reeves launched a crackdown on government waste.

The Department for Culture Media and Sport bought the folders from luxury leather goods manufacturer Barrow Hepburn & Gale, at a cost of £594 each.

Other government departments routinely buy the same folders, and ministerial red boxes, from the company, which also supplies the Royal Family.

Leather-bound document holders are available in the House of Commons shop for £30.

But sources suggest the extra expense is justified to enhance the image of the government.

Government sources added that ministerial folders last for years and are used by successive ministers, with replacements only being ordered when the need arises."

 

News of Tomorrow... Today!

10th October 2026

Government sources state that £70 000 is spent having a civil servant act as a courier for "The Folder."

The news comes to light following a public Downing Street fight outside Number 10 on whose turn it was to be photographed with "The Box"

The Government were asked why they simply didn't switch to a mainstream brand, offering durable folders using modern materials at a much lower cost.

A spokesman said that the courier's bike was within emission tolerances, that the salary was within expectations for living in London, and that the cost was shared among departments, and therefore wasn't an utter waste at all. He finished by pointing out that it was clearly his department's turn for the folder. So there.

[hypochondriac]

Labour still 'going for growth' with the economy shrinking once again. 

[Whitey Grandad]

51 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Labour still 'going for growth' with the economy shrinking once again. 

Tax rises,  innit.

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Tax rises,  innit.

Of course. 

[sadoldgit]

Starmer doesn’t seem to have learned any lessons from Sunak and his ill fated target setting. 1.5m homes in 5 years is a far stretch and, even if they managed to find the land, we don’t have enough people to build them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yg1471rwpo.amp

There has been a lot of development on arable land around Ashford in the last few years but the natives are getting restless and all of the current planning applications are being vigorously contested. Everyone wants new housing but nobody wants it on their doorstep. The same with green energy. There are several applications in around here for solar farms and all are attracting a lot of resistance.

There is a large half built development south of Ashford where the builders, who were supposed to provide a dual carriage way on an existing single track road to help cope with the extra traffic, a school, shops, affordable housing and other amenities, have put in an application to withdraw those plans (clearly down to the cost although they are claiming that those plans are no longer relevant to the locality!).

There is a plant to turn the old Folkestone race course into a garden town with between 8,500 and 12,000 homes (bigger than the neighbouring town, Hythe). Work is supposed to begin next year but we will believe it when we see it.

Starmer’s plans are progressive and admirable, but it doesn’t look like we have the work force or the financial resources to build anything like that number in such a short time frame.
 

 

Edited 14 December, 2024 by sadoldgit
Typo

[Whitey Grandad]

58 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Starmer doesn’t seem to have leaned any lessons from Sunak and his ill fated target setting. 1.5m homes in 5 years is a far stretch and, even if they managed to find the land, we don’t have enough people to build them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yg1471rwpo.amp

There has been a lot of development on arable land around Ashford in the last few years but the natives are getting restless and all of the current planning applications are being vigorously contested. Everyone wants new housing but nobody wants it on their doorstep. The same with green energy. There are several applications in around here for solar farms and all are attracting a lot of resistance.

There is a large half built development south of Ashford where the builders, who were supposed to provide a dual carriage way on an existing single track road to help cope with the extra traffic, a school, shops, affordable housing and other amenities, have put in an application to withdraw those plans (clearly down to the cost although they are claiming that those plans are no longer relevant to the locality!).

There is a plant to turn the old Folkestone race course into a garden town with between 8,500 and 12,000 homes (bigger than the neighbouring town, Hythe). Work is supposed to begin next year but we will believe it when we see it.

Starmer’s plans are progressive and admirable, but it doesn’t look like we have the work force or the financial resources to build anything like that number in such a short time frame.
 

 

Nobody ever stops to consider where the money is going to come from to build these homes. 300,000 extra a year at average prices must be around £75billion a year to get from somewhere. 

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Starmer doesn’t seem to have leaned any lessons from Sunak and his ill fated target setting. 1.5m homes in 5 years is a far stretch and, even if they managed to find the land, we don’t have enough people to build them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yg1471rwpo.amp

There has been a lot of development on arable land around Ashford in the last few years but the natives are getting restless and all of the current planning applications are being vigorously contested. Everyone wants new housing but nobody wants it on their doorstep. The same with green energy. There are several applications in around here for solar farms and all are attracting a lot of resistance.

There is a large half built development south of Ashford where the builders, who were supposed to provide a dual carriage way on an existing single track road to help cope with the extra traffic, a school, shops, affordable housing and other amenities, have put in an application to withdraw those plans (clearly down to the cost although they are claiming that those plans are no longer relevant to the locality!).

There is a plant to turn the old Folkestone race course into a garden town with between 8,500 and 12,000 homes (bigger than the neighbouring town, Hythe). Work is supposed to begin next year but we will believe it when we see it.

Starmer’s plans are progressive and admirable, but it doesn’t look like we have the work force or the financial resources to build anything like that number in such a short time frame.
 

 

We should build higher for starters.

Amazon and other sites have made much of the high street redundant so we should redesign our high streets.

Building on greenfield sites is an environmental crime that can never be undone.

[badgerx16]

"The Government stole their pensions…we've said we'd right that injustice and within the five years of the Labour government we'll compensate them for the money that they've lost."

Angela Raynor talking about WASPI in 2019.

….............

In 2022 Keir Starmer signed a petition calling for "fair and fast compensation".

............

Rachel Reeves with WASPI campaigners in 2020

.........

As The Christians sang : "...and like fools we believed every word that they said.".

 

 

Edited 18 December, 2024 by badgerx16
typos

[whelk]

I can’t think of a cause I have less sympathy for than women who claim they didn’t understand what changes to the pension age meant to them. It’s not as if it was announced when they were 59 that they wouldn’t get pension at 60. Equality baby!

[whelk]

Ok maybe one cause - loaded pensioners moaning they aren’t get a winter fuel handout they don’t need

[badgerx16]

Just now, whelk said:

I can’t think of a cause I have less sympathy for than women who claim they didn’t understand what changes to the pension age meant to them. It’s not as if it was announced when they were 59 that they wouldn’t get pension at 60. Equality baby!

Whether you agree or not, the issue is that Cameron and Osborne brought the effective date set out in the original Act forward by 2 years, which is where the contention lies.

Regardless, it just shows that Labour are as big a bunch of lying schysters as the Tories. ( But then again, should people really be surprised ? )

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Ok maybe one cause - loaded pensioners moaning they aren’t get a winter fuel handout they don’t need

But it leaves a hole in their winter holiday funds.

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Whether you agree or not, the issue is that Cameron and Osborne brought the effective date set out in the original Act forward by 2 years, which is where the contention lies.

Regardless, it just shows that Labour are as big a bunch of lying schysters as the Tories. ( But then again, should people really be surprised ? )

Yes and shocking how Labour championed something clearly they no longer want to do. Although would be more pissed if they wanted to pay compensation. I just hate the way people think nothing unfair can happen in life without someone paying compensation. 

[hypochondriac]

22 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

"The Government stole their pensions…we've said we'd right that injustice and within the five years of the Labour government we'll compensate them for the money that they've lost."

Angela Raynor talking about WASPI in 2019.

….............

In 2022 Keir Starmer signed a petition calling for "fair and fast compensation".

............

Rachel Reeves with WASPI campaigners in 2020

.........

As The Christians sang : "...and like fools we believed every word that they said.".

 

 

Also Streeting signing the waspi woman pledge in 2017. Labour are pissing off an awful lot of different groups. 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Yes and shocking how Labour championed something clearly they no longer want to do. Although would be more pissed if they wanted to pay compensation. I just hate the way people think nothing unfair can happen in life without someone paying compensation. 

I agree with you they don't deserve compensation but bit of an own goal really to be so vociferous in support and then renege as soon as you get in power. If your promises are worthless when you're out of power then why should anyone ever listen to anything you say in opposition? 

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I agree with you they don't deserve compensation but bit of an own goal really to be so vociferous in support and then renege as soon as you get in power. If your promises are worthless when you're out of power then why should anyone ever listen to anything you say in opposition? 

Black hole innit. But yes agree

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Black hole innit. But yes agree

I listened to the rest is politics this week and although Alistair Campbell is undoubtedly a bellend, what he says about Labour being unable to tell a good story or talk about things in a positive way is dead on. I'm surprised by how amateurish their communication strategy has felt. Surely they should be focusing on their successes and talking about how they will be making everything better rather than just talking about how they know every single thing they are doing is terrible but it's not their fault and we should blame the tories? They have had some successes over the past months - few as they are - yet they've barely focused on them at all. Seems like an odd way to play it unless they think they can just sit around looking morose for the next 12 months until the economy picks up and everyone just forgets about it. Starmer has the worst drop in the polls for a new pm ever. If that's not a failure of communication strategy then I don't know what is. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Also Streeting signing the waspi woman pledge in 2017. Labour are pissing off an awful lot of different groups. 

They said anything to get elected, even though they didn’t really need to. Not many people will have sympathy for this old birds, but it plays into the narrative that they are liars and are going back on promises. You would have thought oppositions would have learnt from the Lib/Dems tuition fee debacle. 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

They said anything to get elected, even though they didn’t really need to. Not many people will have sympathy for this old birds, but it plays into the narrative that they are liars and are going back on promises. You would have thought oppositions would have learnt from the Lib/Dems tuition fee debacle. 

Exactly. "we are nothing like the evil Tories, we actually care. The adults are back in chance and you can trust the government again." ahem... 

[CB Fry]

31 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

They said anything to get elected, even though they didn’t really need to. Not many people will have sympathy for this old birds, but it plays into the narrative that they are liars and are going back on promises. You would have thought oppositions would have learnt from the Lib/Dems tuition fee debacle. 

It wasn't in their manifesto this time to be fair.

But they should never ever have given that group any time at all, and certainly not given them the encouragement and photo opps etc.

I don't think I have encountered a pressure group that I have less sympathy for or support for. Absolute bullshitters most of them and for those that didn't know, well you should have known. Fucking parasites on the scrounge.

 

Edited 18 December, 2024 by CB Fry