The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[buctootim]

On 28/09/2024 at 13:16, Lord Duckhunter said:

Mr Rules does seem to have a problem with his declarations doesn’t he, strange because he told Boris in parliament they were “clear”. Fresh from declaring his Mrs’ clothes late after releasing he’d made a “mistake”,  he’s now had to correct the record for his “office expenses”. 🤔 Wonder what made him suddenly realise  he made  a mistake again. Strange a top lawyer struggles with these details. Fucking hell it’s 32k in office expenses, sorry clothes, now. Fucking hell, he’s a very expensive shoe in for best dressed parliamentarian. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/27/peer-gave-keir-starmer-more-clothes-worth-16000-declared-as-money-for-private-office

Agree he has shot himself in the foot. The underlying issue though is how ridiculously low the PM's salary is. Should be around £300k imo - which is what it was in the 60/70s in real terms.  £800k in 1937 according to wiki.    

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Well done for calling it out. Like you say it's wrong no matter what party engages in it. Hopefully there can be more clearly defined boundaries because asking them to mark their own homework isn't working. 

More clearly defined boundaries, set up by an organisation/group that is a leader in establishing transparency and best practice in preventing even the suggestion of corruption would be nice. One that guts all the existing rules they hide behind.

Better than fudging a few sections of the current rules, just adjusting the depth of troughing.

[whelk]

Next it will be Starmer’s fault for the rain. Unrealistic for journalists to research the history of this when they have an agenda to push. Press are so dangerous brainwashing the thick. 

 

 

[egg]

7 hours ago, whelk said:

Starmer’s biggest problem is he doesn’t appear to have a backbone and seems to want to ask people what is the right thing - not just with this freebie stuff but noticed in other situations. Public don’t necessarily expect saints but equally will have less respect for dithering and weakness. If he just said yeah realised all a bit over the top and is now stopping hardly anyone would care - well the Daily Mail and a few on Saintsweb if course
 

Can't disagree with that. People either have good judgement or they don't. Starmer has shown himself to have poor judgement, and from our PM, that's bloody worrying. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Next it will be Starmer’s fault for the rain. Unrealistic for journalists to research the history of this when they have an agenda to push. Press are so dangerous brainwashing the thick. 

 

 

How he got voted in, after such a rubbish job repelling the Romans, I'll never know.

28 minutes ago, egg said:

Can't disagree with that. People either have good judgement or they don't. Starmer has shown himself to have poor judgement, and from our PM, that's bloody worrying. 

But this.

[badgerx16]

10 hours ago, whelk said:

Next it will be Starmer’s fault for the rain. Unrealistic for journalists to research the history of this when they have an agenda to push. Press are so dangerous brainwashing the thick. 

 

 

Negotiations that started when Truss was Foreign Secretary and May was PM, continued and supported by Cleverly when FS and Sunak when PM. A treaty that would have been signed by the Tories had they got back in.

( And Diego Garcia is not being handed back, the naval base is being retained on an initial 99 year lease ).

Strange how some details seem to be missing from the Mail's front page rant.

 

EDIT; this from a BBC news item in 2022 -

"In a written ministerial statement, Mr Cleverly announced: "The UK and Mauritius have agreed to engage in constructive negotiations, with a view to arriving at an agreement by early next year.

"Taking into account relevant legal proceedings, it is our intention to secure an agreement on the basis of international law to resolve all outstanding issues, including those relating to the former inhabitants of the Chagos Archipelago."

The foreign secretary confirmed the negotiations would include "the exercise of sovereignty"."

 

Edited 4 October, 2024 by badgerx16

[rallyboy]

The Mail dripfeeding lies to the easily-led - firing up the thickos to get upset over an inaccurate story about a place they'd never heard of.

 

 

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

The Mail dripfeeding lies to the easily-led - firing up the thickos to get upset over an inaccurate story about a place they'd never heard of.

 

 

Desperate to cling to the last vestiges of the Empire.

[Weston Super Saint]

44 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

EDIT; this from a BBC news item in 3022 -

 

Has not much really changed and does everyone live under water?  What about your great, great, great grandaughter?

[badgerx16]

7 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Has not much really changed and does everyone live under water?  What about your great, great, great grandaughter?

I have just borrowed the TARDIS and corrected the timeline.

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Has not much really changed and does everyone live under water?  What about your great, great, great grandaughter?

Reminds me of that song at Alan Knight’s testimonial before all the trouble afterwards

🎵 ‘Alan Knight is a scummer, scummer

His children are scummers, are scummers

His grandkids are scummers, are scummers,

His great, great children are scummers, are scummers’ 🎵 

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

The Mail dripfeeding lies to the easily-led - firing up the thickos to get upset over an inaccurate story about a place they'd never heard of.

 

 

What we should've done is keep the island and send anyone with an IQ less than 130 at the age of 11 there for the rest of their lives. Bingo! No more thickos!

[Gloucester Saint]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

What we should've done is keep the island and send anyone with an IQ less than 130 at the age of 11 there for the rest of their lives. Bingo! No more thickos!

Suella wanted to send asylum seekers to the Falklands but Rishi overruled - could this have been an alternative? https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/home-office-offered-up-falklands-as-back-up-for-rwanda-policy-z8stsjc83

Anderson suggested they could be sent to the Orkneys instead. And further back, Blair allegedly wanted to send them to the Isle of Mull  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/29/tony-blair-government-house-asylum-seekers-isle-of-mull/

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Reminds me of that song at Alan Knight’s testimonial before all the trouble afterwards

🎵 ‘Alan Knight is a scummer, scummer

His children are scummers, are scummers

His grandkids are scummers, are scummers,

His great, great children are scummers, are scummers’ 🎵 

lol, what a night. 1995 IIRC. Hilarious seeing the mighty 657 bouncing up and down hiding behind the police from the DEF then knocking down walls and attacking the police as they desperately tried to get away once they heard the gates were opening and we were being let out. Funny how they tried to spin it that they were trying to get to us when everyone saw them running in the opposite direction 🤣

[harvey]

On 16/09/2024 at 13:12, whelk said:

You got confidence that Jenrick will energise the Tories and lead them back to power? IDS was more inspiring. Tory voters die off each year and will never win over the young without complete shift, and currently they are toxic to the kids. So not a vote of confidence in Labour but there isn’t a credible alternative and won’t be in 5 years.

I don't care about Jenrick or the Tories, and all of the potential leaders are uninspiring to say the least.........but you have a valid point, ie being toxic to the younger generation, so I get where you're coming from.

[Gloucester Saint]

30 minutes ago, harvey said:

I don't care about Jenrick or the Tories, and all of the potential leaders are uninspiring to say the least.........but you have a valid point, ie being toxic to the younger generation, so I get where you're coming from.

Reported that despite a mixed start, Labour leads on all issues in the polls bar two issues where the two main parties are tied.

The polls after their conference were interesting, Cleverly shown as the most popular with both all voters and specifically Tory voters. The members are only a tiny sub-set though, and more likely Jenryck wins with them, as Badenoch has declined with the maternity pay comments.

Jenryck may also have an IDS-type problem - campaign to win the right wing and find they hold you hostage when you try to tack back to the centre right and/or boot you out. Didn’t realise that it’s now only around 16 letters needed to the 1922 to trigger a leadership contest…

William Hague gave an interview last week saying he didn’t regret being leader as someone ‘needed to do the night shift’ but did regret bringing in the current leadership election rules.

[whelk]

So Sue Gray is resigning? Probably the final straw was the imminent giveaway of the Falkland Islands on the back of that other place I have already forgotten the name

[whelk]

ICYMI as most media refusing to report on such a serious story 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Observer this morning. 
 

Despite being warned, the VAT hike on private schools isn’t as simple as it appeared. What do you expect with a 6th form debating team formulating policy.
 

Their other front page story. Whilst discussing football regulation, over 100k in freebies dished out to MP’s, including Free Gear Kier, a third of the cabinet and 60 MP’s, 41 of which were Labour. New broom? 
 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

On 18/09/2024 at 21:31, Lord Duckhunter said:

There’s been briefing against her for weeks. 
 

She’ll be gone within a year. 
 

 

Shame Soggy is on one of his disappearing acts, as he called this baseless &  waffled on about his work in Fleet Street.

I was wrong in timing , didn’t release Starmers number 10 was quite so dysfunctional. New broom.   

[Gloucester Saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

ICYMI as most media refusing to report on such a serious story 

Apart from the tabloid locked in Reach’s basement (Express). MOS’s front page today even more pathetic https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4dxjxlzljo

[Gloucester Saint]

30 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Shame Soggy is on one of his disappearing acts, as he called this baseless &  waffled on about his work in Fleet Street.

I was wrong in timing , didn’t release Starmers number 10 was quite so dysfunctional. New broom.   

Simon Case going as well, be interesting to see if that and Gray’s move will quell the leaking and griping. 

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

So Sue Gray is resigning? Probably the final straw was the imminent giveaway of the Falkland Islands on the back of that other place I have already forgotten the name

Guardian, 7 July 2024:

"The grownups are back in Westminster. The Tory psychodramas inside No 10 have been replaced by a serious Labour government focused on delivery. It’s going to take time for all of us to make the adjustment..."

Aged like milk that... 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Guardian, 7 July 2024:

"The grownups are back in Westminster. The Tory psychodramas inside No 10 have been replaced by a serious Labour government focused on delivery. It’s going to take time for all of us to make the adjustment..."

Aged like milk that... 

They are hilariously bad for a brand new government.

[rallyboy]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Shame Soggy is on one of his disappearing acts, as he called this baseless &  waffled on about his work in Fleet Street.

You are the current expert on baseless, welcome back - and no, people haven't forgotten what you made up.

[AlexLaw76]

10 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

You are the current expert on baseless, welcome back - and no, people haven't forgotten what you made up.

what, that you trivialised a nonce being outed in the media as 'red meat' for the Tories to be off the front page?

[hypochondriac]

On 24/07/2024 at 08:14, rallyboy said:

I think he's wrong on this issue or he has a plan to save a few quid elsewhere and then unveil the lifting of the cap as a win at some point soon, but to discipline MPs who have gone straight off their manifesto script has to be a positive thing.

It's called integrity, we've not seen it for a while, let's hope it catches on.

"it's called integrity,weve not seen it for a while." lol. 

Edited 6 October, 2024 by hypochondriac

[rallyboy]

Oh, the little gang assemble again.

Get out more, enjoy life, shrug off football disappointments, choose love, be kind, feel better about yourselves. 

x

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Simon Case going as well, be interesting to see if that and Gray’s move will quell the leaking and griping. 

Case was always going wasn’t he? On health grounds. He had significant time off due to his health when he was supposed to be giving evidence at the Covid enquiry, think that was nearly a year ago.

[hypochondriac]

19 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Oh, the little gang assemble again.

Get out more, enjoy life, shrug off football disappointments, choose love, be kind, feel better about yourselves. 

x

I wonder if you'd be imploring others to get out more if they were having a chuckle at a Conservative government shambles after less than 100 days in power? I think we know the answer. Labour full of integrity though. 

Edited 6 October, 2024 by hypochondriac

[Lord Duckhunter]

25 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I wonder if you'd be imploring others to get out more if they were having a chuckle at a Conservative government shambles after less than 100 days in power? I think we know the answer. Labour full of integrity though. 

You imagine if Dominic Cummins son was parachuted into a safe seat, given  a 10k donation from the bloke who bought clothes for Boris,  and was then made a PPS straight after the election, they’d be going nuts. No wonder Rosie Duffield cited nepotism as one of her reasons for resigning.
 

Fucking  hell, and these are “grown ups” with a “new broom”, they’re a complete and utter shambles. The only thing they’ve managed to do competently is take money off ordinary pensioners. From Lammy making a tit of himself to Starmer thrashing around trying to justify his scrounging, it’s been a terrible start. 

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You imagine if Dominic Cummins son was parachuted into a safe seat, given  a 10k donation from the bloke who bought clothes for Boris,  and was then made a PPS straight after the election, they’d be going nuts. No wonder Rosie Duffield cited nepotism as one of her reasons for resigning.
 

Fucking  hell, and these are “grown ups” with a “new broom”, they’re a complete and utter shambles. The only thing they’ve managed to do competently is take money off ordinary pensioners. From Lammy making a tit of himself to Starmer thrashing around trying to justify his scrounging, it’s been a terrible start. 

We haven't even had the budget yet. Are they going to whack up capital gains? Will we see interest rates climb so mortgage rates bounce up again? Interesting to see the guardian of all things suggesting that the private school vat policy is more complex than they thought (won't really raise much at all it's just a policy of spite.) we've had the same thing about the non dom policy which is now projected to lose money. Will they plough ahead with them anyway? Then we've got the possibility of legalised killing to look forward to. If granny doesn't freeze to death you can bump her off another way. The fact it's all being done with halfwits like Lammy and Raynor in power is just salt in the wound. Like you say a grand old start. 

Edited 6 October, 2024 by hypochondriac

[Weston Super Saint]

11 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You imagine if Dominic Cummins son was parachuted into a safe seat, given  a 10k donation from the bloke who bought clothes for Boris,  and was then made a PPS straight after the election, they’d be going nuts. No wonder Rosie Duffield cited nepotism as one of her reasons for resigning.
 

Fucking  hell, and these are “grown ups” with a “new broom”, they’re a complete and utter shambles. The only thing they’ve managed to do competently is take money off ordinary pensioners. From Lammy making a tit of himself to Starmer thrashing around trying to justify his scrounging, it’s been a terrible start. 

Things can only get better?

[Tamesaint]

The gammon on the forum are going to have to be careful. There are many years left in this Parliament. If they don't calm down they are going to explode  with rage well before the next election. 

To quote them "Suck it up snowflakes". There ain't nothing you can do. 😁😁😁

[Lord Duckhunter]

17 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

The gammon on the forum are going to have to be careful. There are many years left in this Parliament. If they don't calm down they are going to explode  with rage well before the next election. 

To quote them "Suck it up snowflakes". There ain't nothing you can do. 😁😁😁

We’ll be alright mate. Sat on final salary pensions, house owners, no kids at school, it won’t be us paying for this cluster fuck. Withdrawing WFP has probably protected the triple lock & our free bus passes as well. Enjoy working till 70, you’ll be sucking that one up 😂

[whelk]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

We haven't even had the budget yet. Are they going to whack up capital gains? Will we see interest rates climb so mortgage rates bounce up again? Interesting to see the guardian of all things suggesting that the private school vat policy is more complex than they thought (won't really raise much at all it's just a policy of spite.) we've had the same thing about the non dom policy which is now projected to lose money. Will they plough ahead with them anyway? Then we've got the possibility of legalised killing to look forward to. If granny doesn't freeze to death you can bump her off another way. The fact it's all being done with halfwits like Lammy and Raynor in power is just salt in the wound. Like you say a grand old start. 

Tbf you sound like the hysterical halfwit

[whelk]

46 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

The gammon on the forum are going to have to be careful. There are many years left in this Parliament. If they don't calm down they are going to explode  with rage well before the next election. 

To quote them "Suck it up snowflakes". There ain't nothing you can do. 😁😁😁

Wait til Duckhunter bleats about his second home come the October budget. Only reason he rinses his tenants is cos he has been told he can the greedy bastard.

[hypochondriac]

38 minutes ago, whelk said:

Tbf you sound like the hysterical halfwit

The politics of spite 

 

[Tamesaint]

59 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We’ll be alright mate. Sat on final salary pensions, house owners, no kids at school, it won’t be us paying for this cluster fuck. Withdrawing WFP has probably protected the triple lock & our free bus passes as well. Enjoy working till 70, you’ll be sucking that one up 😂

Thanks for the compliment. I retired 7 years ago when I was still in my 50s. I am probably older than you.   

Older in body but younger in mind. 😁😁😁

[whelk]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

The politics of spite 

 

Presumably you want VAT to be removed from many other goods and services?

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

Presumably you want VAT to be removed from many other goods and services?

It's the motivation behind policies that I have a problem with. There's nothing hysterical about questioning policies designed to raise money if they don't actually raise any money and create problems instead. You're then left wondering what the motivation is for enacting them beyond penalising groups that Labour are ideologically opposed to. A Labour minister engaging in playground politics, selectively quoting an article about embossed stationary as if that's a representative example of their private school Vat plan is pathetic really but it is enlightening about what some of them think and why they're targeting private schools in particular (and of course many of their children attend these schools but with their freebies and salaries the increase is no skin off their collective noses.)

If you look back to the earliest part of this thread, one of the first things I posted was giving Starmer credit for being ruthless in order to attempt to be successful. That was just a few months ago and it seems like a lifetime. I don't understand why the government has gone out of its way to punch itself in the face repeatedly. I know you think it's all overblown and there's nothing to see but they've scored so many own goals that are just unnecessary. Maybe this sacking and reshuffle is an acknowledgement of that and maybe their messaging will improve? Maybe they have a couple of rabbits to pull out of hats for the budget? They could certainly do with being a bit bullish and positive about Britain, if only for consumer and investor confidence. 

Edited 6 October, 2024 by hypochondriac

[whelk]

39 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's the motivation behind policies that I have a problem with. There's nothing hysterical about questioning policies designed to raise money if they don't actually raise any money and create problems instead. You're then left wondering what the motivation is for enacting them beyond penalising groups that Labour are ideologically opposed to. A Labour minister engaging in playground politics, selectively quoting an article about embossed stationary as if that's a representative example of their private school Vat plan is pathetic really but it is enlightening about what some of them think and why they're targeting private schools in particular (and of course many of their children attend these schools but with their freebies and salaries the increase is no skin off their collective noses.)

If you look back to the earliest part of this thread, one of the first things I posted was giving Starmer credit for being ruthless in order to attempt to be successful. That was just a few months ago and it seems like a lifetime. I don't understand why the government has gone out of its way to punch itself in the face repeatedly. I know you think it's all overblown and there's nothing to see but they've scored so many own goals that are just unnecessary. Maybe this sacking and reshuffle is an acknowledgement of that and maybe their messaging will improve? Maybe they have a couple of rabbits to pull out of hats for the budget? They could certainly do with being a bit bullish and positive about Britain, if only for consumer and investor confidence. 

I think the freebies is overblown but is of their own making as they seem to have amateurs managing their comms. Someone like Campbell I’m sure would’ve shut it down earlier and get everything out there and move on - although was lot simpler in the times before social media.  I think Phillipson is wet and everything I don’t like about Labour. Also think Starmer is always worried and needs to plough on with some radical changes - many of which I am sure won’t personally benefit me. But he seems to care too much what the right wing press think and they are going to constantly pile on as long as he is in power. Hysteria about the winter fuel payments is laughable - people like you talking about grannies freezing to death. You get £900 more but £200 less - quite simple arithmetic so if someone can’t afford to put the the heating on this winter then they are pretty poor at budgeting.

Edited 6 October, 2024 by whelk

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, whelk said:

I think the freebies is overblown but is of their own making as they seem to have amateurs managing their comms. Someone like Campbell I’m sure would’ve shut it down earlier and get everything out there and move on - although was lot simpler in the times before social media.  I think Phillipson is wet and everything I don’t like about Labour. Also think Starmer is always worried and needs to plough on with some radical changes - many of which I am sure won’t personally benefit me. But he seems to care too much what the right wing press think and they are going to constantly pile on as long as he is in power. Hysteria about the winter fuel payments is laughable - people like you talking about grannies freezing to death. You get £900 more but £200 less - quite simple arithmetic so if someone can’t afford to put the the heating on this winter then they are pretty poor at budgeting.

I actually don't care about the winter fuel payments I just like that Starmer rhymes with granny harmer. 

[The Kraken]

5 hours ago, whelk said:

Wait til Duckhunter bleats about his second home come the October budget. Only reason he rinses his tenants is cos he has been told he can the greedy bastard.

I think you’re being unfair. Under the Tories, Duckie was able to keep his rents really low because he liked his tenants. As soon as that new broom Kier got into power, all that changed immediately.  Duck simply had to raise his prices because Labour something something . Nothing he could do about it really.

[hypochondriac]

Genius if true. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I'm sure they are all fully funded, as they said so frequently. Just as I'm sure they are a party of trust, as that was something they said they stood for. No doubt their will be a news announcement putting our minds at rest. That, up until a couple of days ago, will be controlled by Sue Gray, a trusted (and very fully funded) person within they party.

[badgerx16]

 

Any Government trying to significantly increase revenue without changing one or more of the top three sources is going to be playing a shell game, and is being dishonest with itself and the electorate.

[AlexLaw76]

54 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I'm sure they are all fully funded, as they said so frequently. Just as I'm sure they are a party of trust, as that was something they said they stood for. No doubt their will be a news announcement putting our minds at rest. That, up until a couple of days ago, will be controlled by Sue Gray, a trusted (and very fully funded) person within they party.

Of course they wouldn’t have lied, they are all honest grown ups 

Edited 7 October, 2024 by AlexLaw76

[badgerx16]

20 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Of course they wouldn’t have lied, they are all honest grown ups 

Politicians don't lie - they dissemble, mis-speak, or present alternative facts.

[whelk]

I think there are a few simpletons here who don’t understand how the Treasury works. Keep getting excited though