The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[Sir Ralph]

On 17/02/2025 at 14:23, sadoldgit said:

As we speak Trump is printing thousands of baseball caps with MUGA on the front.

Make USSR Great Again.

He plans to sell them, tariff free, to Putin and make a killing.

So far, he has said that Europe needs to spend more on defence. He threatens to reduce US involvement in European defence......European leaders now saying they will invest more in defence. Trump isnt stupid, he's much smarter than our 'Leader'. The speech from JD Vance is Friday was epic and absolutely what was called for.

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

So far, he has said that Europe needs to spend more on defence. He threatens to reduce US involvement in European defence......European leaders now saying they will invest more in defence. Trump isnt stupid, he's much smarter than our 'Leader'. The speech from JD Vance is Friday was epic and absolutely what was called for.

This post is a pity as your post and reposte on the Reform thread was so well framed and thought through.

Trump just gave Putin exactly the domestic imaging and messaging he so badly wanted - US and USSR as equals as per 1980s and before. Huge tactical fuck up which will have long-lasting repercussions after Trump.

He (Putin) was struggling to hold on domestically before that and his mate Donald just gave him a huge unwarranted boost. Which will hit you and I in the pocket as well. The idea that the US hasn’t gained economically from being leader of the free world is for the birds - or MAGA nuts. Yes, some NATO members need to spend more of defence but 5% isn’t feasible for most, 3% maybe.

Europe needs a fresh defence strategy and to count the US out largely although I suspect air cover might be the compromise.

As for the JD Vance comments, we’ve clearly got totally different values on what western democracy looks like, especially from an election denier like him. Meeting with a Neo Nazi politician but not with the official state leader of Germany tells you all you need to know about Vance and Musk. This from the man who called his President ‘America’s Hitler’. More like Chamberlain. The D-Day 80th anniversary and GI blood shed must have passed Vance by.

Edited February 19 by Gloucester Saint

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

This post is a pity as your post and reposte on the Reform thread was so well framed and thought through.

Trump just gave Putin exactly the domestic imaging and messaging he so badly wanted - US and USSR as equals as per 1980s and before. Huge tactical fuck up which will have long-lasting repercussions after Trump.

He (Putin) was struggling to hold on domestically before that and his mate Donald just gave him a huge unwarranted boost. Which will hit you and I in the pocket as well. The idea that the US hasn’t gained economically from being leader of the free world is for the birds - or MAGA nuts. Yes, some NATO members need to spend more of defence but 5% isn’t feasible for most, 3% maybe.

Europe needs a fresh defence strategy and to count the US out largely although I suspect air cover might be the compromise.

As for the JD Vance comments, we’ve clearly got totally different values on what western democracy looks like, especially from an election denier like him. Meeting with a Neo Nazi politician but not with the official state leader of Germany tells you all you need to know about Vance and Musk. This from the man who called his President ‘America’s Hitler’. More like Chamberlain. 

What specifically did you take issue with in Vance's speech? Genuine question. 

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

What specifically did you take issue with in Vance's speech? Genuine question. 

Got to dash, will respond more later. The misinformation around abortion and reproductive rights wasn’t good for start https://www.dw.com/en/jd-vance-free-speech-claims-debunked/a-71642886

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Got to dash, will respond more later

Meeting SOG for lunch?

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What specifically did you take issue with in Vance's speech? Genuine question. 

How about somebody who still denies the result of the 2020 Presidential election saying that cancelling a result due to strong evidence of Russian interference was anti-democrstic.

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

How about somebody who still denies the result of the 2020 Presidential election saying that cancelling a result due to strong evidence of Russian interference was anti-democrstic.

I don't know the specifics of why elections were cancelled but it is true that the EU have threatened to cancel elections in the past. I don't like the direction of that, nor the tendency of the EU to dismiss votes they don't like. That's not to dismiss the threat of Russia obviously but clearly the EU has problems of its own as well. 

[hypochondriac]

32 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Got to dash, will respond more later. The misinformation around abortion and reproductive rights wasn’t good for start https://www.dw.com/en/jd-vance-free-speech-claims-debunked/a-71642886

I'm not sure how that's misleading? It does indeed say that actions in private could contravene the law and someone was indeed prosecuted for silent prayer. 

The EU have said that they would consider shutting down social media under certain circumstances so I'm not sure how that is misleading. Lacking context maybe but it's a speech so that's difficult to do. The point is the direction of travel is towards being more restrictive and authoritarian and his point was that the new American regime thinks that direction of travel is a bad thing. 

Edited February 19 by hypochondriac

[Winnersaint]

On 04/02/2025 at 21:36, hypochondriac said:

I think I mentioned before how Labour have terrible communication and PR. 

You're not wrong there. Farage and Reform are all over social media like a rash. They've been ahead of the curve with this. Traditional parties are still playing by the old rules and that isn't going to gain traction. Goebbels was a master at utilising the new medium of radio to broadcast Nazi propaganda and misinformation directly into German homes in the early 1930's, seems like this wasn't lost on a young Nigel during his youthful flirtations with Naziism.

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

You're not wrong there. Farage and Reform are all over social media like a rash. They've been ahead of the curve with this. Traditional parties are still playing by the old rules and that isn't going to gain traction. Goebbels was a master at utilising the new medium of radio to broadcast Nazi propaganda and misinformation directly into German homes in the early 1930's, seems like this wasn't lost on a young Nigel during his youthful flirtations with Naziism.

Christ...

[Winnersaint]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Christ...

My second point was made somewhat in jest. It is however, clear that their social media messaging is way better than that of any other party. Going back to the time of Corbyn it was clear then communications and PR in the Labour Party were not keeping pace with changes in tech and as you point out that is still the case.

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Winnersaint said:

My second point was made somewhat in jest. It is however, clear that their social media messaging is way better than that of any other party. Going back to the time of Corbyn it was clear then communications and PR in the Labour Party were not keeping pace with changes in tech and as you point out that is still the case.

Don’t forget they are targeting low information people who by definition are easily influenced and fooled. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm not sure how that's misleading? It does indeed say that actions in private could contravene the law and someone was indeed prosecuted for silent prayer. 

The EU have said that they would consider shutting down social media under certain circumstances so I'm not sure how that is misleading. Lacking context maybe but it's a speech so that's difficult to do. The point is the direction of travel is towards being more restrictive and authoritarian and his point was that the new American regime thinks that direction of travel is a bad thing. 

The guy was asked repeatedly not to intimidate women going for procedures and advice, with a PCO speaking to him 1-1 for 1 hour 40 mins, he ignored it, ignored a small fine, so was hit with a much larger one by the courts and law of this land. He’s also been funded by Christian Evangelist extremist groups in the US so is a political activist. The vast majority of the local residents around the clinic insisted on a buffer zone as a minority of others were persistently doing the same and invading their privacy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kp7r00vo
 

Also, Vance wants free speech for the far right online but doesn’t support and his party and appointed judges refuse to allow millions of women basic rights over their bodies. Once Roe Vs Wade is restored, I’ll listen to him on freedom of speech.

Edited February 19 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Meeting SOG for lunch?

The home-made chutney SOG made was very tempting, I headed over from the Cotswolds to Romney Marsh but my car fell down the sinkhole in Surrey on the way there.

Edited February 19 by Gloucester Saint

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

The guy was asked repeatedly not to intimidate women going for procedures and advice, with a PCO speaking to him 1-1 for 1 hour 40 mins, he ignored it, ignored a small fine, so was hit with a much larger one by the courts and law of this land. He’s also been funded by Christian Evangelist extremist groups in the US so is a political activist. The vast majority of the local residents around the clinic insisted on a buffer zone as a minority of others were persistently doing the same and invading their privacy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kp7r00vo
 

Also, Vance wants free speech for the far right online but doesn’t support and his party and appointed judges refuse to allow millions of women basic rights over their bodies. Once Roe Vs Wade is restored, I’ll listen to him on freedom of speech.

Right I understand the context of the Christian preacher and why he was prosecuted. He was essentially prosecuted though for standing in the buffer zone with his head bowed which I still disagree with even if I think the blokes a weirdo and shouldn't be doing it. I also don't think there should be badly drafted laws that appear to suggest that praying in your own home could potentially be criminalised even if that law is not enforced. 

The argument about abortion isn't a free speech one is it. Their argument would be about the rights of the foetus and about ending a life and clearly there's strong views on both sides of that but it's not a free speech argument. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Right I understand the context of the Christian preacher and why he was prosecuted. He was essentially prosecuted though for standing in the buffer zone with his head bowed which I still disagree with even if I think the blokes a weirdo and shouldn't be doing it. I also don't think there should be badly drafted laws that appear to suggest that praying in your own home could potentially be criminalised even if that law is not enforced. 

The argument about abortion isn't a free speech one is it. Their argument would be about the rights of the foetus and about ending a life and clearly there's strong views on both sides of that but it's not a free speech argument. 

He wasn’t there for 5 minutes, he was asked repeatedly first more nicely and then more forcibly to move on for nearly 2 hours. That’s not right, it’s intimidation towards the women and not fair on the residents. What if you’re trying to sell your house?

It’s all tied into freedom. I don’t actually agree with online banning of content generally, whether it’s Christian or Muslim extremism (really graphic and nasty porn aside), I’d rather expose extremists with reason and evidence then have them disappear to dark webs, but Vance can’t realistically batter a much older civilisation on that and openly and enthusiastically severely restrict women’s freedoms over their bodies. Freedom can’t be something the US Conservative movement repeals in the most basic human forms when it suits and bans others when it doesn’t.

Edited February 19 by Gloucester Saint

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

He wasn’t there for 5 minutes, he was asked repeatedly first more nicely and then more forcibly to move on for nearly 2 hours. That’s not right, it’s intimidation towards the women and not fair on the residents. What if you’re trying to sell your house?

It’s all tied into freedom. I don’t actually agree with online banning of content generally, whether it’s Christian or Muslim extremism (really graphic and nasty porn aside), I’d rather expose extremists with reason and evidence then have them disappear to dark webs, but Vance can’t realistically batter a much older civilisation on that and openly and enthusiastically severely restrict women’s freedoms over their bodies. Freedom can’t be something the US Conservative movement repeals in the most basic human forms when it suits and bans others when it doesn’t.

He could be there for three weeks, I still wouldn't agree with prosecuting someone for standing silently with their head bowed. There's nothing intimidating about someone standing silently and no one would have been aware of his presence there if he hadn't alerted people beforehand to his presence in order to test the law. 

The argument against abortion is that killing the unborn baby is ignoring the rights of the foetus and their right to exist. I'm not saying I agree with that but that's what is believed. Besides, there isn't an outright abortion ban is there? I thought they'd left it to the individual states to sort their own laws on it which arguably is providing a greater degree of freedom than a blanket ban. 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

He could be there for three weeks, I still wouldn't agree with prosecuting someone for standing silently with their head bowed. There's nothing intimidating about someone standing silently and no one would have been aware of his presence there if he hadn't alerted people beforehand to his presence in order to test the law. 

The argument against abortion is that killing the unborn baby is ignoring the rights of the foetus and their right to exist. I'm not saying I agree with that but that's what is believed. Besides, there isn't an outright abortion ban is there? I thought they'd left it to the individual states to sort their own laws on it which arguably is providing a greater degree of freedom than a blanket ban. 

It’s very legally opaque. In theory, there should constitutionally be no restrictions on travel other than socio-legal and/or interventions from family or partners. But Idaho introduced laws in 2023 which forbid health centres from making referrals out of state and prosecuting friends or family who offer advice to young women. For a young woman who might have been a victim of sexual assault in her family, that’s a dreadful scenario and not neccessary in the 21st century. Tennessee followed suit with other Red/GOP states reviewing currently

https://theconversation.com/crossing-state-lines-to-get-an-abortion-is-a-new-legal-minefield-with-courts-to-decide-if-theres-a-right-to-travel-238167#:~:text=Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote in,constitutional right to interstate travel.”

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

It’s very legally opaque. In theory, there should constitutionally be no restrictions on travel other than socio-legal and/or interventions from family or partners. But Idaho introduced laws in 2023 which forbid health centres from making referrals out of state and prosecuting friends or family who offer advice to young women. For a young woman who might have been a victim of sexual assault in her family, that’s a dreadful scenario and not neccessary in the 21st century. Tennessee followed suit with other Red/GOP states reviewing currently

https://theconversation.com/crossing-state-lines-to-get-an-abortion-is-a-new-legal-minefield-with-courts-to-decide-if-theres-a-right-to-travel-238167#:~:text=Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote in,constitutional right to interstate travel.”

It's a difficult one because whilst I agree that in certain circumstances like the one you describe I could support abortion, I'm also equally appaled by the way that certain people live their lives without consequence and use abortion as a form of birth control. I'm decidedly uneasy about supporting a lifestyle like that 

[Sir Ralph]

On 19/02/2025 at 12:07, Gloucester Saint said:

This post is a pity as your post and reposte on the Reform thread was so well framed and thought through.

Trump just gave Putin exactly the domestic imaging and messaging he so badly wanted - US and USSR as equals as per 1980s and before. Huge tactical fuck up which will have long-lasting repercussions after Trump.

He (Putin) was struggling to hold on domestically before that and his mate Donald just gave him a huge unwarranted boost. Which will hit you and I in the pocket as well. The idea that the US hasn’t gained economically from being leader of the free world is for the birds - or MAGA nuts. Yes, some NATO members need to spend more of defence but 5% isn’t feasible for most, 3% maybe.

Europe needs a fresh defence strategy and to count the US out largely although I suspect air cover might be the compromise.

As for the JD Vance comments, we’ve clearly got totally different values on what western democracy looks like, especially from an election denier like him. Meeting with a Neo Nazi politician but not with the official state leader of Germany tells you all you need to know about Vance and Musk. This from the man who called his President ‘America’s Hitler’. More like Chamberlain. The D-Day 80th anniversary and GI blood shed must have passed Vance by.

In respect of Vance, I'm looking at more the points he made and the relevance to us in European countries. Some people could dismiss the points that he has made because they see him as 'hypocritical'. If we put that debate to one side (and it is a debate), listen to the words he says which I believe are absolutely true. He has, on an international platform, well articulated many points that a significant portion of society consider to be true. 

[Tamesaint]

4 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

In respect of Vance, I'm looking at more the points he made and the relevance to us in European countries. Some people could dismiss the points that he has made because they see him as 'hypocritical'. If we put that debate to one side (and it is a debate), listen to the words he says which I believe are absolutely true. He has, on an international platform, well articulated many points that a significant portion of society consider to be true. 

"Absolutely true "?? So where in Scotland is it illegal to pray in your home as he claimed? Who has been prosecuted for this offence? 

Edited February 21 by Tamesaint

[rallyboy]

On 19/02/2025 at 12:53, hypochondriac said:

 someone was indeed prosecuted for silent prayer. 

 

You know they weren't, that's just the PR line spread by the extremist groups that funded the stunt, to distract and blur the facts.

 

 

 

[Gloucester Saint]

10 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

He has, on an international platform, well articulated many points that a significant portion of society consider to be true. 

If you’re from India, or Moscow, that might be a correct but in Europe it certainly isn’t https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/poll-minority-of-europeans-are-optimistic-about-trump/

[badgerx16]

10 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

In respect of Vance, I'm looking at more the points he made and the relevance to us in European countries. Some people could dismiss the points that he has made because they see him as 'hypocritical'. If we put that debate to one side (and it is a debate), listen to the words he says which I believe are absolutely true. He has, on an international platform, well articulated many points that a significant portion of society consider to be true. 

He stood there and deliberately spoke provocative bullshit. And there is no 'debate' over Vance's hypocrisy relating to elections, he still refuses to say that Biden won in 2020.

[hypochondriac]

5 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

"Absolutely true "?? So where in Scotland is it illegal to pray in your home as he claimed? Who has been prosecuted for this offence? 

No one has yet been prosecuted. The suggestion was that you could be prosecuted if someone heard you praying and was intimidated by it. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

No one has yet been prosecuted. The suggestion was that you could be prosecuted if someone heard you praying and was intimidated by it. 

Does it also depend what religion it is praying?

[badgerx16]

Nutty Nic is here again, I see.

[Gloucester Saint]

17 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

He stood there and deliberately spoke provocative bullshit. And there is no 'debate' over Vance's hypocrisy relating to elections, he still refuses to say that Biden won in 2020.

It also ignores the fact that America is a nation 99% built on immigration and the treatment of the communities who have always been there is dreadful. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

It also ignores the fact that America is a nation 99% built on immigration and the treatment of the communities who have always been there is dreadful. 

Being a nation 99% built on immigration doesn't then mean that you now are obligated to have a terrible immigration policy. 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Being a nation 99% built on immigration doesn't then mean that you now are obligated to have a terrible immigration policy. 

I agree (in jest) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-birthright-citizenship-executive-order-b2701297.html

Edited February 21 by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

Personally I’d have legal routes to apply from nations that are acknowledged as being in conflict, the rest like Albania and Turkey it’s about having the right skills for an economic visa. Take student visas out of the net figures and dependents though, that was just Braverman being a cunt and stirring the pot. That’s not to say it’s an automatic the applicants get accepted but at least it would be listened to fully and we don’t have the demos we’ve seen over the last 4 years or so outside hotels. Combine that with returning a higher % of boat arrivals and the higher levels of smuggler arrests and destruction of boats and facilities we’ve seen this winter, it’ll reduce it.

It’s an ongoing task whoever is in power with climate change though which will exacerbate the impact of bad regimes in the global south.

Edited February 21 by Gloucester Saint

[Sir Ralph]

6 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

"Absolutely true "?? So where in Scotland is it illegal to pray in your home as he claimed? Who has been prosecuted for this offence? 

His key point (which should not be lost) is that european governments are increasingly ignoring (and in some cases imposing rules preventing) views that were up until a few years ago considered to be conservative but are now designated as 'extreme' because it doesnt fit their liberal narrative. This is happening alongside the degradation of traditional british culture in an increasing push for wokeness and diversity without facilitating discussion about the harm caused by this. That was his point and it is an absolutely fair one which shouldn't be ignored. I'm glad his speech is just another way that people now feel more liberated to speak about this and be vocal about these issues. Its starting to snowball and will thankfully have political ramification in 4 years time.

Edited February 21 by Sir Ralph

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

His key point (which should not be lost) is that european governments are increasingly ignoring (and in some cases imposing rules preventing) views that were up until a few years ago considered to be conservative but are now designated as 'extreme' because it doesnt fit their liberal narrative. This is happening alongside the degradation of traditional british culture in an increasing push for wokeness and diversity without facilitating discussion about the harm caused by this. That was his point and it is an absolutely fair one which shouldn't be ignored. I'm glad his speech is just another way that people now feel more liberated to speak about this and be vocal about these issues. Its starting to snowball and will thankfully have political ramification in 4 years time.

Agreed. Also, not sure if you saw but CNN followed German police around to go and arrest people for writing something offensive on social media. With increasing amount of these types of activities being criminalosed, the direction of travel is one towards greater clampdowns and more time wasted intimidating non criminals. 

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

No one has yet been prosecuted. The suggestion was that you could be prosecuted if someone heard you praying and was intimidated by it. 

So its a suggestion. Not a fact. So it was wrong for Vance to say it . Agree?? 

Edited February 21 by Tamesaint

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, rallyboy said:

You know they weren't, that's just the PR line spread by the extremist groups that funded the stunt, to distract and blur the facts.

 

 

 

No surprise that he fell for that bullshit. The man involved was not arrested for praying. He was arrested for not moving along when requested by the police. There is a zone specifically around these centres to prevent women from being intimidated. When asked to vacate the zone he refused.

This misinformation is being spread by those who know exactly what they are doing and being picked as a fact by those who want to believe it.

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

It’s starting to snowball and will thankfully have political ramification in 4 years time.

In your bubble on X maybe but the Lib Dem’s did far better in terms of seat capture and that’s who I vote for. If Labour loses its majority which is a big if then we’re just as likely to have a say in the outcome than Reform, factually more so with FPTP. Tories are fucked after choosing Badenoch, their support has slipped ever further, and she bangs on about culture war shit like this all of the time.

I just want an economy that enables me and wife to put bread on the table, same as 95% of the electorate. Trump only got re-relected outside the 40% who are obsessed with him because enough people thought he was more likely to do that than Harris. They didn’t consider tariffs pushing prices up but that’s by the by.

Heard all of the same earthquake stuff from Corbyn and Momentum and they were winning social media etc. 2017 GE was a false dawn when they couldn’t beat May who boxed herself in a corner and inevitably got the hammering they were always going to in 2019. Same will happen with the far right, once Trump’s economic policies and DOGE hammers their lower middle class and the mid-terms change the Senate and House. The ties to Trump will be a millstone around the neck.

Edited February 21 by Gloucester Saint

[tdmickey3]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Nutty Nic is here again, I see.

He`s is at the flat earth believers conference

[sadoldgit]

13 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

In respect of Vance, I'm looking at more the points he made and the relevance to us in European countries. Some people could dismiss the points that he has made because they see him as 'hypocritical'. If we put that debate to one side (and it is a debate), listen to the words he says which I believe are absolutely true. He has, on an international platform, well articulated many points that a significant portion of society consider to be true. 

A significant proportion who, if they were living in the US, would be wearing red MAGA baseball caps and cheering on the First Buddy’s every bullshit statement.

[Sir Ralph]

46 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

In your bubble on X maybe but the Lib Dem’s did far better in terms of seat capture and that’s who I vote for. If Labour loses its majority which is a big if then we’re just as likely to have a say in the outcome than Reform, factually more so with FPTP. Tories are fucked after choosing Badenoch, their support has slipped ever further, and she bangs on about culture war shit like this all of the time.

I just want an economy that enables me and wife to put bread on the table, same as 95% of the electorate. Trump only got re-relected outside the 40% who are obsessed with him because enough people thought he was more likely to do that than Harris. They didn’t consider tariffs pushing prices up but that’s by the by.

Heard all of the same earthquake stuff from Corbyn and Momentum and they were winning social media etc. 2017 GE was a false dawn when they couldn’t beat May who boxed herself in a corner and inevitably got the hammering they were always going to in 2019. Same will happen with the far right, once Trump’s economic policies and DOGE hammers their lower middle class and the mid-terms change the Senate and House. The ties to Trump will be a millstone around the neck.

I'm a business owner so have some understanding of economics and the impact of the decisions this current Labour Government has made on business. They have had a detrimental impact on the economy. I'm not narrow minded enough to just consider that one party has the answer and when Labour came in I liked a lot of what they said about growth. I thought the country needed a fresh start. That thought will never cross my mind again.

Their liberal approach means that they actively belittle those parts of the population with alternative views (as do other european governments) and this will feed into their downfall, as Vance said.

Labour doesnt have a likely chance of keeping its majority -we will probably end up with some form of Conservative / Reform coalition. I'm not on X but the polls point whether what I am saying is accurate in terms of the likely impact in the next election https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/ 

Edited February 21 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

23 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

A significant proportion who, if they were living in the US, would be wearing red MAGA baseball caps and cheering on the First Buddy’s every bullshit statement.

And therefore, if that is a large proportion of the population, they must all be wrong?

Edited February 21 by Sir Ralph

[Gloucester Saint]

15 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I'm a business owner so have some understanding of economics and the impact of the terrible decisions this current Labour Government has made. They have had a detrimental impact on the economy and pretty much every wealth generator takes the same view. I'm not narrow minded enough to just vote for one party and when they came in I liked a lot of what they said about growth. I thought the country needed a fresh start. That thought will never cross my mind again - they are terrible.

Their liberal / woke approach means that they actively belittle those parts of the population with alternative views (as do other european governments) and this will feed into their downfall, as Vance said.

Labour doesnt have a remote chance of keeping its majority -we will end up with some form of Conservative / Reform coalition. I'm not on X but the polls point whether what I am saying is accurate in terms of the likely impact in the next election https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/ 

Yep, I’ve had my own business as well, and I would’ve reversed the NI employee that we couldn’t afford, rather than put it on employers NI. Worst decision they’ve made. I agree with some of that but I don’t think are especially woke, Starmer has really cracked down on the harder left and kept away from issues like transgender which is a snakepit of an issue that gets a very vocal minority worked up on either side of political extremes.

The Democrats by contrast fucked up in the Presidential election by still majoring on that stuff fuelled by the likes of AOC. The culture war is so much bigger over there because of evangelicals. By contrast, listen to Ben Bradshaw and Caroline Noakes here about how often culture war issues ever came up on the doorstep - answer zero 

 

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Yep, I’ve had my own business as well, and I would’ve reversed the NI employee that we couldn’t afford, rather than put it on employers NI. Worst decision they’ve made. I agree with some of that but I don’t think are especially woke, Starmer has really cracked down on the harder left and kept away from issues like transgender which is a snakepit of an issue that gets a very vocal minority worked up on either side of political extremes.

The Democrats by contrast fucked up in the Presidential election by still majoring on that stuff fuelled by the likes of AOC. The culture war is so much bigger over there because of evangelicals. By contrast, listen to Ben Bradshaw and Caroline Noakes here about how often culture war issues ever came up on the doorstep - answer zero 

 

Thanks I'll watch the video and for the points you make. The only thing I would say I think some of the woke issues are actually important to address (and this is feeding into the current polls) but that's a whole other discussion! 

[Gloucester Saint]

On polling, in 1981-2 the SDP were polling over 50% and leaving a very unpopular Conservative government and conflict-ridden opposition with an unelectable leader batting for 2nd in high teens/low 20s. National Front were active on the streets and predicted to win seats.

Then check out the 1983 GE result. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fucking hell there’s another bullshitting cabinet minister now, pretending he was a Solicitor this time.
 

What’s up with these chumps, he even tried to blame his staff despite standing up in parliament and saying the exact same thing. Bunch of  Walter Mitty’s. 
 

Whose next? 
 

 

[hypochondriac]

4 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

So its a suggestion. Not a fact. So it was wrong for Vance to say it . Agree?? 

It's in the legislation. You can be prosecuted for praying in your home. 

[Turkish]

Why do some people seem to have an issue with the American people and the American Government wanting to make their country great again? There is a thread on here 48 pages long moaning about all the things wrong with this country, surely everyone should want to make the place where they live great?

[hypochondriac]

How is this a good thing? 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Why do some people seem to have an issue with the American people and the American Government wanting to make their country great again? There is a thread on here 48 pages long moaning about all the things wrong with this country, surely everyone should want to make the place where they live great?

Thankfully, it's only the usual moans from those trying to keep hold of what they have, rather than embracing a bright, new future.

Here in Airstrip 51, as we will all soon have Google maps updated to, we're repainting the roads, and mending the barbed wire fences ahead of fresh new defense systems that we'll pay our special American friends for.

It's great we save the frustration of dual system issues by simply depending on their technology wholesale. It just makes all the massive training, maintenance and upgrade bills easier to manage.

The higher that percentage defence commitment, the more US arms catalogue pages we'll have access to. We'll gladly go up to 5% or more for our new toys. I'm sure they'll come in handy someday. And after all, we'll be obligated to buy them to get the other stuff. Got to keep ahead of their other customers (formerly known as NATO allies)

And we'll have more need to have them, thanks to the Cold War reset, making Geopolitics nice and simple again. Once Russia regroup and invade the rest of Ukraine, we'll have all those new borders to be watchful over. Thankfully our transatlantic chums have plenty to keep us supplied with, as long as we do exactly as they say. Hurray for MAGA and down with Eurasia, or whoever our pals deem to be our foes!

[Weston Super Saint]

10 week prison sentence for Mike Amesbury for his punch up.

[Gloucester Saint]

5 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

10 week prison sentence for Mike Amesbury for his punch up.

Deserved it, don’t agree with very short prison sentences usually but a line was crossed there. It wasn’t a natural reaction to an object being thrown at point blank range, but a sustained attack on the member of the public with provocation unclear https://news.sky.com/video/watch-cctv-that-led-to-mp-mike-amesburys-jail-term-13316271

Edited February 24 by Gloucester Saint