The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[sadoldgit]

Now that the GE is done and dusted it is time for a new political thread. Hopefully we can get back to grey, boring politics again after the crazy, psycho dramas of the last few years.

Starmer’s Labour have certainly hit the ground running but it doesn’t look like they will be given much of a honeymoon period.

 

[badgerx16]

Please SOGgy, you know what happens when you start threads ;-(

 

 

[whelk]

Was using broom in the title to entice Weston in?

[badgerx16]

Anyway, as a more serious response, as Starmer said when questioned over prisons, "Yes something needs to be done but I don't have a spare prison in my back pocket".

People will see a stonking majority backing up a lot of promises and think 'instant win', but the Ship of State is a lumbering near wreck, and to bring her about she first needs to be patched up and the tiller re-connected.

[sadoldgit]

  On 16/07/2024 at 08:01, badgerx16 said:

Please SOGgy, you know what happens when you start threads ;-(

 

 

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😂

I know but I was waiting for someone else to start a post election thread and it didn’t happen. Maybe, for a change, they will not try and derail it from the start and we can crack on with it?

[sadoldgit]

Labour have already been accused of being soft on crime due to the idea of letting prisoners out early to make room for the newly convicted. Not sure what else they are supposed to do? Let people out early or not jail the newly convicted?

[badgerx16]

  On 16/07/2024 at 08:09, sadoldgit said:

Labour have already been accused of being soft on crime due to the idea of letting prisoners out early to make room for the newly convicted. Not sure what else they are supposed to do? Let people out early or not jail the newly convicted?

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https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/12/over-10000-prisoners-freed-70-days-early-sunak-government

[trousers]

 

 

[sadoldgit]

  On 16/07/2024 at 08:21, badgerx16 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/12/over-10000-prisoners-freed-70-days-early-sunak-government

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James Timpson has been talking about numbers and saying about a third shouldn’t  be in jail to start with. Don’t we jail more %wise than many other European counties?

The Probation service, who are already stretched, aren’t going to be happy.

Edited 16 July, 2024 by sadoldgit
Add text

[Turkish]

  On 16/07/2024 at 08:47, trousers said:

 

 

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I nearly posted that but didn’t want to be accused of derailing the thread 😇😇😇

[The Kraken]

I'm quite happy that things have dies down after the election now that those in charge seem to be enacting some sensible measures in their first few days in office.  Politics has become a circus over the past few years with a drama seemingly every week.

Starmer gets called boring but hell, give me a boring competent man to oversee this Labour term and I'll be perfectly content with that.  Just get on with the flipping job, if I'm having to read about politics every day it means something is likely going wrong.

[badgerx16]

  On 16/07/2024 at 09:15, sadoldgit said:

James Timpson has been talking about numbers and saying about a third shouldn’t  be in jail to start with. Don’t we jail more %wise than many other European counties?

The Probation service, who are already stretched, aren’t going to be happy.

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There are many issues making this worse; one is oversubscribed remand cells due to the backlog in Court cases, that itself is made worse by Court buildings being closed due to RAAC meaning their cases have to be relocated, causing knock on congestion in schedules. Some Courts are having to ask Police forces to allow the use of holding cells for remand prisoners because there is nowhere else to put them.

And people expect a quick fix.

[Turkish]

  On 16/07/2024 at 09:40, badgerx16 said:

There are many issues making this worse; one is oversubscribed remand cells due to the backlog in Court cases, that itself is made worse by Court buildings being closed due to RAAC meaning their cases have to be relocated, causing knock on congestion in schedules. Some Courts are having to ask Police forces to allow the use of holding cells for remand prisoners because there is nowhere else to put them.

And people expect a quick fix.

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12% of the prison population are foreign nationals so there is a relatively quick fix......

[AlexLaw76]

  On 16/07/2024 at 09:47, Turkish said:

12% of the prison population are foreign nationals so there is a relatively quick fix......

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Do you fancy Katie Hopkins, by any chance?

[sadoldgit]

Gareth Southgate would make an excellent MP. Get him on board Sir Keir!

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 16/07/2024 at 08:09, sadoldgit said:

Not sure what else they are supposed to do?

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They could have been straight with the British people when seeking a mandate.
 

When the Tories proposed the same thing Shabana Mahmood criticised them & said once in power labour would build more prisons & lock more people up. Clearly, they’ve no intention of doing either. Strange,because  it was a basic duty a couple of months ago, not now it seems. As she said;  “People up and down will be asking: if this government can't fulfil the basic duty of keeping criminals locked up, why are they still the government”.

They could also stop pretending the situation is worse than they thought, as they knew full well the exact situation. 
 

Meet the new broom, same as the old broom. 

[sadoldgit]

  On 16/07/2024 at 09:40, badgerx16 said:

There are many issues making this worse; one is oversubscribed remand cells due to the backlog in Court cases, that itself is made worse by Court buildings being closed due to RAAC meaning their cases have to be relocated, causing knock on congestion in schedules. Some Courts are having to ask Police forces to allow the use of holding cells for remand prisoners because there is nowhere else to put them.

And people expect a quick fix.

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We need more Bibi Stockholms - generate more work for our shipbuilding industry at the same time as solving the prison crisis! 😉

[sadoldgit]

Man down already.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/16/vaughan-gething-resigns-first-minister-wales

[sadoldgit]

Bibi Stockholm to be dumped.

https://news.sky.com/story/bibby-stockholm-barge-to-be-closed-amid-labour-asylum-overhaul-13183761
 

Imagine what we could have done with the asylum seekers issue if the 1000 people employed to deal with the Rwanda plan had been assigned to clearing that backlog.

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 23/07/2024 at 12:42, sadoldgit said:

 

Imagine what we could have done with the asylum seekers issue if the 1000 people employed to deal with the Rwanda plan had been assigned to clearing that backlog.

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Clearing the back log, in other words granting asylum. 

[The Kraken]

  On 23/07/2024 at 16:05, Lord Duckhunter said:

Clearing the back log, in other words granting asylum. 

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Report from 13 June. So while the Tories were still doing their thing.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-march-2024/how-many-people-do-we-grant-protection-to#:~:text=Sixty-two per cent of,or alternative forms of leave.

As a result of the high grant rate over the last year and the increase in decisions, the number of people granted asylum (68,564) is the highest in a 12-month period since records began in 1984.

[hypochondriac]

A big well done to Starmer if this is true. Using this vote to rid himself of the toxic elements clinging on in Labour. Fingers crossed this encourages him to be less extreme. 

[The Kraken]

Thought there’d be more Labour rebels than that. No surprise to see McDonnell and Wrong-Daily among them.

I reckon Starmer has promised he’ll revisit the cap in the next budget.

[sadoldgit]

Starmer showing he’s the boss.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/labour-suspend-seven-mps-who-rebelled-over-two-child-benefit-cap-13183879

[badgerx16]

  On 23/07/2024 at 19:18, hypochondriac said:

A big well done to Starmer if this is true. Using this vote to rid himself of the toxic elements clinging on in Labour. Fingers crossed this encourages him to be less extreme. 

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  On 23/07/2024 at 21:21, sadoldgit said:

Starmer showing he’s the boss.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/labour-suspend-seven-mps-who-rebelled-over-two-child-benefit-cap-13183879

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I assume SOG has Hypo on ignore.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 23/07/2024 at 21:23, badgerx16 said:

 

I assume SOG has Hypo on ignore.

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If not, he's definitely pretending to.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 23/07/2024 at 19:18, hypochondriac said:

A big well done to Starmer if this is true. Using this vote to rid himself of the toxic elements clinging on in Labour. Fingers crossed this encourages him to be less extreme. 

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Has this set a precedent for future votes?  Will the whip be withdrawn after every opposing vote?  Will we end up with more Independents in the HoC before the year is out?

[rallyboy]

I think he's wrong on this issue or he has a plan to save a few quid elsewhere and then unveil the lifting of the cap as a win at some point soon, but to discipline MPs who have gone straight off their manifesto script has to be a positive thing.

It's called integrity, we've not seen it for a while, let's hope it catches on.

[The Kraken]

  On 24/07/2024 at 07:14, rallyboy said:

I think he's wrong on this issue or he has a plan to save a few quid elsewhere and then unveil the lifting of the cap as a win at some point soon, but to discipline MPs who have gone straight off their manifesto script has to be a positive thing.

It's called integrity, we've not seen it for a while, let's hope it catches on.

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I think it's item 2.

This item doesn't poll particularly well but neither does it poll badly, and I think it can very easily be spun as a positive thing in terms of making positive steps to arrest child poverty.

Starmer would have looked spineless had he gone against all of his manifesto promises where he and the party stated that they wanted to remove the cap but it's not a number one priority and they can only look to address it further down the line.  I think they bought time with their MPs by promising at least a comprehensive review of it, I personally expect the 2025 budget to scrap the cap (autumn budget is likely too soon).

[whelk]

  On 24/07/2024 at 08:21, The Kraken said:

I think it's item 2.

This item doesn't poll particularly well but neither does it poll badly, and I think it can very easily be spun as a positive thing in terms of making positive steps to arrest child poverty.

Starmer would have looked spineless had he gone against all of his manifesto promises where he and the party stated that they wanted to remove the cap but it's not a number one priority and they can only look to address it further down the line.  I think they bought time with their MPs by promising at least a comprehensive review of it, I personally expect the 2025 budget to scrap the cap (autumn budget is likely too soon).

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Increasing benefits never polls well. But the same people who will always scapegoat benefit scroungers will be the same ones bemoan the crumbling of society. Society tends not to function well if you have too many people who cannot make ends meet.

 

 

[hypochondriac]

  On 24/07/2024 at 09:59, whelk said:

Increasing benefits never polls well. But the same people who will always scapegoat benefit scroungers will be the same ones bemoan the crumbling of society. Society tends not to function well if you have too many people who cannot make ends meet.

 

 

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It is a balance though. Should still be an incentive to work rather than have loads of children, not work and claim benefits (I accept that isn't the majority.)

[whelk]

  On 23/07/2024 at 21:23, badgerx16 said:

 

I assume SOG has Hypo on ignore.

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A petty annoyance when people post in threads without updating themselves with what has already been posted. Comment on what people have posted not post superfluously 

[whelk]

  On 24/07/2024 at 10:01, hypochondriac said:

It is a balance though. Should still be an incentive to work rather than have loads of children, not work and claim benefits (I accept that isn't the majority.)

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Absolutely - problem there are many genuine cases in absolute poverty. No one wants lazy fuckers getting easy money. It’s a tricky balance

[The Kraken]

  On 24/07/2024 at 10:03, whelk said:

Absolutely - problem there are many genuine cases in absolute poverty. No one wants lazy fuckers getting easy money. It’s a tricky balance

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Child benefit is a maximum of £25 per week per child.  If anybody is having kids so that they can soak in all of that lovely child benefit funding then they've probably got their priorities wrong.

[hypochondriac]

  On 24/07/2024 at 10:03, whelk said:

Absolutely - problem there are many genuine cases in absolute poverty. No one wants lazy fuckers getting easy money. It’s a tricky balance

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  On 24/07/2024 at 10:27, The Kraken said:

Child benefit is a maximum of £25 per week per child.  If anybody is having kids so that they can soak in all of that lovely child benefit funding then they've probably got their priorities wrong.

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That isn't what the two child benefit cap is. it "restricts support in Universal Credit and tax credits to two children in a family."

 

[Fan The Flames]

What I like about this labour government is that in a lot of their announcements so far they have said what a shit state the Tories have left the country in. Not sitting on ceremony and learning a bit from the Tories who rinsed the Liam Byrne 'joke' letter, for all it's worth. 

The last labour lot were happy for New Labour to take the rap, didn't defend their record enough and allowed the Tory narrative to prevail. This lot are a bit more street smart.

[sadoldgit]

  On 24/07/2024 at 07:14, rallyboy said:

I think he's wrong on this issue or he has a plan to save a few quid elsewhere and then unveil the lifting of the cap as a win at some point soon, but to discipline MPs who have gone straight off their manifesto script has to be a positive thing.

It's called integrity, we've not seen it for a while, let's hope it catches on.

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I think a lot of people thought that the Left would play Starmer like a cheap fiddle. This has been a marker that he isn’t a soft touch. No matter what you think about the cap, and Labour clearly don’t agree with it, having done their sums and decided to deal with child poverty in other ways for now, it would have been weak and disingenuous to buckle on that position at the first hurdle. Finally, a PM with some integrity and backbone who is not going to make promises he can’t keep.

Today’s PMQ’s was a grown up affair for a change. No doubt that had lots to do with it being the first one of a new parliament and it will go back to its usual pantomime in future, but a pleasant change to hear MPs behave as grown ups.

[sadoldgit]

  On 24/07/2024 at 10:02, whelk said:

A petty annoyance when people post in threads without updating themselves with what has already been posted. Comment on what people have posted not post superfluously 

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If only people didn’t troll or behave as WUMs at every opportunity, eh, so that it wasn’t necessarily to ignore the childish nonsense. Maybe then we could concentrate on having grown up conversations. But well done you for reading every single post ever written in the Lounge and posting adult, well informed, replies and never resorting to Anglo- Saxon rich name calling. 👍

Here’s a thought, if there are duplicate posts, why not concentrate on the first one and reply to that? It might help your blood pressure and also help not clog up threads with pointless responses.

[east-stand-nic]

  On 24/07/2024 at 11:40, sadoldgit said:

If only people didn’t troll or behave as WUMs at every opportunity, eh, so that it wasn’t necessarily to ignore the childish nonsense. Maybe then we could concentrate on having grown up conversations. But well done you for reading every single post ever written in the Lounge and posting adult, well informed, replies and never resorting to Anglo- Saxon rich name calling. 👍

Here’s a thought, if there are duplicate posts, why not concentrate on the first one and reply to that? It might help your blood pressure and also help not clog up threads with pointless responses.

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The irony

[east-stand-nic]

  On 24/07/2024 at 11:30, sadoldgit said:

I think a lot of people thought that the Left would play Starmer like a cheap fiddle. This has been a marker that he isn’t a soft touch. No matter what you think about the cap, and Labour clearly don’t agree with it, having done their sums and decided to deal with child poverty in other ways for now, it would have been weak and disingenuous to buckle on that position at the first hurdle. Finally, a PM with some integrity and backbone who is not going to make promises he can’t keep.

Today’s PMQ’s was a grown up affair for a change. No doubt that had lots to do with it being the first one of a new parliament and it will go back to its usual pantomime in future, but a pleasant change to hear MPs behave as grown ups.

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Rolling back to the tory's doing the same thing, tight fisted millionaire scum looking after their own and not caring about the poor.

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 24/07/2024 at 11:30, sadoldgit said:

No matter what you think about the cap, and Labour clearly don’t agree with it,

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Fucking laughable. They don’t agree with it so much, they subjected MP’s to a three line whip & withdrew the whip from those that wouldn’t vote to maintain it. If you think it’s wrong & contributes to child poverty you oppose it no matter which colour of Government. 
 

The great thing about this issue is it shows the true colours of you lot. It’s not about policy or about principles at all…..

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 24/07/2024 at 12:05, east-stand-nic said:

Rolling back to the tory's doing the same thing, tight fisted millionaire scum looking after their own and not caring about the poor.

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Laughable isn’t it. 

[Tamesaint]

  On 24/07/2024 at 12:08, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fucking laughable. They don’t agree with it so much, they subjected MP’s to a three line whip & withdrew the whip from those that wouldn’t vote to maintain it. If you think it’s wrong & contributes to child poverty you oppose it no matter which colour of Government. 
 

The great thing about this issue is it shows the true colours of you lot. It’s not about policy or about principles at all…..

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What a load of sanctimonious bollocks 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Shame “Mental Gymnastics”isn’t an Olympic sport, some of you would be nailed on for a medal in Paris. 

[Tamesaint]

If Labour had announced the scrapping of the 2 child policy you would have been all over it claiming they were financially irresponsible. 

[sadoldgit]

This seems to be a sensible approach to tackling child poverty which is clearly a complex issue and isn’t going to be solve by one action alone.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn081lyqw44o.amp

[hypochondriac]

  On 24/07/2024 at 11:40, sadoldgit said:

If only people didn’t troll or behave as WUMs at every opportunity, eh, so that it wasn’t necessarily to ignore the childish nonsense. Maybe then we could concentrate on having grown up conversations. But well done you for reading every single post ever written in the Lounge and posting adult, well informed, replies and never resorting to Anglo- Saxon rich name calling. 👍

Here’s a thought, if there are duplicate posts, why not concentrate on the first one and reply to that? It might help your blood pressure and also help not clog up threads with pointless responses.

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Bit ironic of you in particular chastising others for pointless responses. You've been relentless since you paid your fiver.

Edit: I see someone got there before me. Well said!

Edited 24 July, 2024 by hypochondriac

[badgerx16]

The vote on the benefit cap was the SNP playing silly buggers just to look as if they matter.

[sadoldgit]

  On 24/07/2024 at 12:25, Tamesaint said:

If Labour had announced the scrapping of the 2 child policy you would have been all over it claiming they were financially irresponsible. 

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Starmer has previously been accused of flip flopping and now he is being accused of not flip flopping. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

[whelk]

  On 24/07/2024 at 11:40, sadoldgit said:

If only people didn’t troll or behave as WUMs at every opportunity, eh, so that it wasn’t necessarily to ignore the childish nonsense. Maybe then we could concentrate on having grown up conversations. But well done you for reading every single post ever written in the Lounge and posting adult, well informed, replies and never resorting to Anglo- Saxon rich name calling. 👍

Here’s a thought, if there are duplicate posts, why not concentrate on the first one and reply to that? It might help your blood pressure and also help not clog up threads with pointless responses.

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Shut up you soppy old fucker. And read people’s posts rather than posting your boring links