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Taylor Harwood-Bellis

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By Saint Scott
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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
  On 17/11/2024 at 19:07, Turkish said:

He was quite amusing after when they said about it being his son in law, said it’s not a done deal yet and things can change quickly. Also said about being a nice lad and family done a good job 

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Keane also mentioned something about Southampton. I couldn’t hear whether it was he’s being playing well at Southampton, or despite the problems he’s had this season at Southampton.

Without sub-titles it was lost due to accent and how he speaks into his beard. 
 

Did anyone hear it properly ? 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 17/11/2024 at 20:08, Badger said:

Keane also mentioned something about Southampton. I couldn’t hear whether it was he’s being playing well at Southampton, or despite the problems he’s had this season at Southampton.

Without sub-titles it was lost due to accent and how he speaks into his beard. 
 

Did anyone hear it properly ? 

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He’s a goal threat and has been at Southampton too this season. I think that’s what you’re referring to anyway

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 17/11/2024 at 20:08, Badger said:

Keane also mentioned something about Southampton. I couldn’t hear whether it was he’s being playing well at Southampton, or despite the problems he’s had this season at Southampton.

Without sub-titles it was lost due to accent and how he speaks into his beard. 
 

Did anyone hear it properly ? 

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He said he was even a goal threat at Southampton recently. 

Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
  On 14/11/2024 at 08:22, Farmer Saint said:

But he didn't last season under the same system and manager, so I'm assuming it's the step up in quality.

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The system works against inferior opposition, it doesn't work against Prem opposition (unless you have a billion to invest in the squad). It's really not that complicated. Harwood Bellis is an excellent young centreback who will play for a title winning side in his career, I have no doubt. 

Maggie May

Maggie May

Posted
Posted
  On 17/11/2024 at 23:29, Saint_clark said:

The system works against inferior opposition, it doesn't work against Prem opposition (unless you have a billion to invest in the squad). It's really not that complicated. Harwood Bellis is an excellent young centreback who will play for a title winning side in his career, I have no doubt. 

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He already has. 

  • 1 month later...
saintstowin

saintstowin

Posted
Posted

THB getting a mention on various player threads. I believe there's a very decent player in there but his current level isn't high enough to stand out as a calming, positionally aware CD amongst the panic that is our defending. That's not entirely on him. But he gets involved where not needed (Villa, Brentford). Probably because he is caught up in it all, wants to do well etc. But he needs to focus on his main role, marking and being in the right place. 

The other thing which I believe is a factor is his fitness, he looks overweight for an elite level sportsman. Definitely chunkier then last season. That is a worry if it's related to application and taking fitness seriously. He's not alone in looking several yards off the fitness required in the PL.

  • Haha 1
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 06/01/2025 at 19:37, saintstowin said:

THB getting a mention on various player threads. I believe there's a very decent player in there but his current level isn't high enough to stand out as a calming, positionally aware CD amongst the panic that is our defending. That's not entirely on him. But he gets involved where not needed (Villa, Brentford). Probably because he is caught up in it all, wants to do well etc. But he needs to focus on his main role, marking and being in the right place. 

The other thing which I believe is a factor is his fitness, he looks overweight for an elite level sportsman. Definitely chunkier then last season. That is a worry if it's related to application and taking fitness seriously. He's not alone in looking several yards off the fitness required in the PL.

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Chunkier?  Is there an ounce of fat on him? A lack of fitness is hard to assess. He certainly lacks a yard of pace though. 

  • Like 5
Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
  On 06/01/2025 at 19:37, saintstowin said:

The other thing which I believe is a factor is his fitness, he looks overweight for an elite level sportsman. Definitely chunkier than last season. That is a worry if it's related to application and taking fitness seriously. He's not alone in looking several yards off the fitness required in the PL.

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When you think this place couldn’t get anymore incredible someone pipes up judging someone’s fitness and application based purely on looks.

Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 06/01/2025 at 20:14, Fabrice29 said:

When you think this place couldn’t get anymore incredible someone pipes up judging someone’s fitness and application based purely on looks.

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No more foolish than buying a £10m striker who can barely walk, crazy tactics and spending £22m on Kameldeen Sulemana. 

  • Like 1
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Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 06/01/2025 at 20:45, Fabrice29 said:

What’s that got to do with that post? 😂

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Meaning if the forum is silly what does that say about the state of the football club at the moment?

If it was a fallen and severely injured racehorse at nearby Cheltenham, the screens would go around and be put out of its misery.

New owners with industry expertise in the stables would help carrying on the horse racing analogy.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
  On 06/01/2025 at 20:48, Gloucester Saint said:

Meaning if the forum is silly what does that say about the state of the football club at the moment?

If it was a fallen and severely injured racehorse at nearby Cheltenham, the screens would go around and be put out of its misery.

New owners with industry expertise in the stables would help carrying on the horse racing analogy.

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 I was just laughing at the fact somebody is diagnosing THB as unfit with a bad attitude to fitness despite presumably never having met him or worked with him on any details of his actual fitness. Not every post needs to turn into a tirade about the club, but you do you I suppose 

chivvy

chivvy

Posted
Posted

He has a shocker last game.. not enough to be dropped but should be told.. ABK should be pushing him and bednarek..

Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted

Probably been the biggest disappointment of the season for me. We knew people like Smallbone & Armstrong would be pony at this level, and I never really held much hope that Downes would be anything other than a poor JWP without the set piece delivery. But THB I had high hopes would become a Lovren level centre half, decent but prone to the odd mistake. Instead he’s been mostly pony, prone to the odd good block or good clearance.
 

Mind you, ridiculous Lego ball can’t of helped his confidence and young players need the hairdryer every now and then, not constant cuddles.

 

  • Like 1
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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted

He is a young player in his first season at this level. The issue is that because we don't believe in having any experienced senior pros who are proven at PL level we never really have the chance to take someone like THB out for a few games because the drop in quality is so big to the other options.

Dibling also being flogged much more than he would be at pretty much any other PL club. Ditto Fernandes. Ramsdale was rushed back with fingers taped together, Sugawara thrown straight in and then has noticeably regressed.

  • Like 6
rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

I would pay money to hear his future father-in-law give an honest opinion on our whole squad, one-by-one, a brutal assessment based on quality and workrate.

He and Taylor must have some interesting chats behind closed doors.

  • Like 1
Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted
  On 07/01/2025 at 13:09, Lord Duckhunter said:

Probably been the biggest disappointment of the season for me. We knew people like Smallbone & Armstrong would be pony at this level, and I never really held much hope that Downes would be anything other than a poor JWP without the set piece delivery. But THB I had high hopes would become a Lovren level centre half, decent but prone to the odd mistake. Instead he’s been mostly pony, prone to the odd good block or good clearance.
 

Mind you, ridiculous Lego ball can’t of helped his confidence and young players need the hairdryer every now and then, not constant cuddles.

 

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He’s still young and has a lot of positive attributes. 


Put him next to VVD or even Fonte and I am sure he would be OK. 

Instead he’s surrounded by clowns and been asked to play ridiculous football for months  

Its honestly really difficult to judge any of our players this season because of how crap the overall team is  (except Sulemana, Arma, Bednarek and Stephens who we have years of evidence for being not PL standard)


 

  • Like 5
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 07/01/2025 at 17:13, Osvaldorama said:

He’s still young and has a lot of positive attributes. 
Put him next to VVD or even Fonte and I am sure he would be OK. 

Instead he’s surrounded by clowns and been asked to play ridiculous football for months  

Its honestly really difficult to judge any of our players this season because of how crap the overall team is  (except Sulemana, Arma, Bednarek and Stephens who we have years of evidence for being not PL standard)

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He lacks pace and doesn't dominate in the air (he seems much smaller than 6'2") which is a bad start for a top class CB. However, the lad can certainly play with the ball at his feet, which, RM or not, is essential in modern day football. I think he reads the game pretty well, makes a lot of good decisions and there is no shortage of heart and commitment. He's only 22, so has time on his side. CBs often take longer to really show the best, so I am hopeful we have yet to see his best. Sometimes what you see at 22 is what you will get and no more though. I'm slightly disappointed Edwards hasn't turned out to be better than THB, immediately. I had a feeling he might usurp THB or Bednarek, but looks like he and Wood also still have a lot to learn.

  • Like 3
danjosaint

danjosaint

Posted
Posted

I think he's looked noticeably worse when playing in s 3, almost unsure of where he's supposed to be, hence always out of position or hindering other defenders 

  • Like 2
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 07/01/2025 at 18:02, danjosaint said:

I think he's looked noticeably worse when playing in s 3, almost unsure of where he's supposed to be, hence always out of position or hindering other defenders 

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don't all CBs basically look like that when played in a three? I can understand playing 5 at the back against Man City in their prime and just park the bus, but against everyone else I bloody hate it. Koeman used it to great effect to stop the rot one season, but it was a short term thing and he returned back to four soon after. Other than that, I don't recall it ever being effective. 

  • Like 3
AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
  On 07/01/2025 at 18:14, Chez said:

don't all CBs basically look like that when played in a three? I can understand playing 5 at the back against Man City in their prime and just park the bus, but against everyone else I bloody hate it. Koeman used it to great effect to stop the rot one season, but it was a short term thing and he returned back to four soon after. Other than that, I don't recall it ever being effective. 

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completely agree...Koeman did it at home to Everton (I think)...we won comfortably and he quickly chopped back to the usual set up.

3 at the back is a terrible system unless you have specific players for it

  • Like 1
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 07/01/2025 at 20:01, AlexLaw76 said:

completely agree...Koeman did it at home to Everton (I think)...we won comfortably and he quickly chopped back to the usual set up.

3 at the back is a terrible system unless you have specific players for it

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I think Victor was off form/banned at the time, so it worked with one DM instead of the usual two short-term, halted a bad run. But long-term you concede your midfield with five unless it’s a very good midfield.

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 07/01/2025 at 20:06, Gloucester Saint said:

I think Victor was off form/banned at the time, so it worked with one DM instead of the usual two short-term, halted a bad run. But long-term you concede your midfield with five unless it’s a very good midfield.

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Apart from CBs not really knowing what they are doing, the fullbacks are either too deep and not helping attacks or too far forward and caught out of position. If you are better than your opponent it can work, but if you are using it to try and compete with a better side I think it hinders.

Edited by Chez
  • Like 2
Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
  On 07/01/2025 at 18:14, Chez said:

don't all CBs basically look like that when played in a three?

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I prefer the 2 wide “centre halves” being  strong fullbacks or central defenders who can play full back as well, I think Koeman may have used Bertrand in this role occasionally and Venables did with Stewart Pearce . Charlie Taylor is the only one we’ve got, but it is quite an Italian thing, so maybe Ivan could develop this is he stays long term. The problem we have is the 3 centre halves we play are all like a fish out of water in wider areas, all seem suited to the central role, and play in a 3 in exactly the same way they do in a 2. 

  • Like 6
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 07/01/2025 at 20:49, Lord Duckhunter said:

I prefer the 2 wide “centre halves” being  strong fullbacks or central defenders who can play full back as well, I think Koeman may have used Bertrand in this role occasionally and Venables did with Stewart Pearce . Charlie Taylor is the only one we’ve got, but it is quite an Italian thing, so maybe Ivan could develop this is he stays long term. The problem we have is the 3 centre halves we play are all like a fish out of water in wider areas, all seem suited to the central role, and play in a 3 in exactly the same way they do in a 2. 

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Me too.

If you’re going to play 3 CBs you need two of them to be mobile. You can’t have 3 who aren’t quick or mobile like we have as it doesn’t work. Wood appears to be the most like that we’ve got but the rest of them are cut from the same cloth. The two playing either side of the middle one have more ground to cover than a traditional 4 at the back so if they’re a bit sluggish like ours it’s easy to get quick wide players to play down the flanks or as we’ve seen recently we’re one light in midfield as players can run from deep untracked and unchallenged 

  • Like 6
Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan

Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan

Posted
Posted
  On 07/01/2025 at 20:49, Lord Duckhunter said:

I prefer the 2 wide “centre halves” being  strong fullbacks or central defenders who can play full back as well, I think Koeman may have used Bertrand in this role occasionally and Venables did with Stewart Pearce . Charlie Taylor is the only one we’ve got, but it is quite an Italian thing, so maybe Ivan could develop this is he stays long term. The problem we have is the 3 centre halves we play are all like a fish out of water in wider areas, all seem suited to the central role, and play in a 3 in exactly the same way they do in a 2. 

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Agreed, you look at the stand-out back 3/5's over the years and a lot of them play with one more dynamic player in the back line to account for it having 5 defenders. Bertrand did it for us, you look at Chelsea under Conte and they had Moses as one wing-back so played with Azpilicueta as the wide CB so they still had the defensive strength to cover it. Even back in 2002 in the world cup, Brazil played with 4 traditional defenders, and moved a midfielder into the back 3 to allow Carlos and Cafu to move further forward. We seem to be stuck playing 5 traditional defenders with their skill sets not really being optimised. I think a better balance would be to have a more attacking wing-back option. So something like a back 3 of Taylor, THB and Wood. Taylor has the experience to be a leader, you optimise THB's on ball ability as the middle pendulum, and Wood can cover the right space well. You then play KWP as a Wing back, and someone like Fraser on the other side, so it isn't just 5 defenders who don't have the cutting edge we need from the wide positions.

  • Like 3
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
  On 09/01/2025 at 10:04, Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan said:

Agreed, you look at the stand-out back 3/5's over the years and a lot of them play with one more dynamic player in the back line to account for it having 5 defenders. Bertrand did it for us, you look at Chelsea under Conte and they had Moses as one wing-back so played with Azpilicueta as the wide CB so they still had the defensive strength to cover it. Even back in 2002 in the world cup, Brazil played with 4 traditional defenders, and moved a midfielder into the back 3 to allow Carlos and Cafu to move further forward. We seem to be stuck playing 5 traditional defenders with their skill sets not really being optimised. I think a better balance would be to have a more attacking wing-back option. So something like a back 3 of Taylor, THB and Wood. Taylor has the experience to be a leader, you optimise THB's on ball ability as the middle pendulum, and Wood can cover the right space well. You then play KWP as a Wing back, and someone like Fraser on the other side, so it isn't just 5 defenders who don't have the cutting edge we need from the wide positions.

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  On 07/01/2025 at 20:49, Lord Duckhunter said:

I prefer the 2 wide “centre halves” being  strong fullbacks or central defenders who can play full back as well, I think Koeman may have used Bertrand in this role occasionally and Venables did with Stewart Pearce . Charlie Taylor is the only one we’ve got, but it is quite an Italian thing, so maybe Ivan could develop this is he stays long term. The problem we have is the 3 centre halves we play are all like a fish out of water in wider areas, all seem suited to the central role, and play in a 3 in exactly the same way they do in a 2. 

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  On 07/01/2025 at 20:57, Turkish said:

Me too.

If you’re going to play 3 CBs you need two of them to be mobile. You can’t have 3 who aren’t quick or mobile like we have as it doesn’t work. Wood appears to be the most like that we’ve got but the rest of them are cut from the same cloth. The two playing either side of the middle one have more ground to cover than a traditional 4 at the back so if they’re a bit sluggish like ours it’s easy to get quick wide players to play down the flanks or as we’ve seen recently we’re one light in midfield as players can run from deep untracked and unchallenged 

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Sounds like a job for Shoehorn Jack.

 

  • Haha 1
pimpin4rizeal

pimpin4rizeal

Posted
Posted

Probably won’t be a popular opinion but abk showed a much higher level then ThB has in the top flight.. seems to be a fair bit of  false hype around THB due to him being a young English cb from city and the call up, can’t think of any dominating performances from him this season even wood has probably looked better since coming in 

disconnect

disconnect

Posted
Posted
  On 10/01/2025 at 02:50, pimpin4rizeal said:

Probably won’t be a popular opinion but abk showed a much higher level then ThB has in the top flight.. seems to be a fair bit of  false hype around THB due to him being a young English cb from city and the call up, can’t think of any dominating performances from him this season even wood has probably looked better since coming in 

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I think the problem is that Taylor has taken on a bit too much responsibility for the results and is trying to do a bit too much, meaning he's making mistakes and not trusting the others around him. Getting him into a back 4 or with a more comfortable team (preferably with much better protection from midfield) will do him good. 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 10/01/2025 at 11:54, disconnect said:

I think the problem is that Taylor has taken on a bit too much responsibility for the results and is trying to do a bit too much, meaning he's making mistakes and not trusting the others around him. Getting him into a back 4 or with a more comfortable team (preferably with much better protection from midfield) will do him good. 

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Yep, hes a young player in his first season in the premier league. He should be playing alongside a good, experienced centre back not stuck alongside crap like Stephens & Bednarek or expecting Wood who is also in his first season to just swim. We did this with Stephens expecting him and Yoshida to step up to replace Fonte and Van Dijk, why do we never learn?

  • Like 2
Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

Posted
Posted
  On 10/01/2025 at 11:58, Turkish said:

Yep, hes a young player in his first season in the premier league. He should be playing alongside a good, experienced centre back not stuck alongside crap like Stephens & Bednarek or expecting Wood who is also in his first season to just swim. We did this with Stephens expecting him and Yoshida to step up to replace Fonte and Van Dijk, why do we never learn?

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Exactly this!  Plenty of experienced centre backs out there that the club could've brought in to help Harwood-Bellis' growth.  He's got huge potential and certainly wouldn't have been picked for England if he didn't, coming from such a shit defence as Saints.  Huge potential, needs PROVEN experience alongside him - exactly the problem. 

  • Like 3
OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

Posted
Posted

Really like his attitude, really like how he can see a pass, he's not the tallest but makes his presence felt when he comes up for corners...but he's another that really needs to work on his fitness. At this level, he's a yard off the pace (and that's being generous).

BarberSaint

BarberSaint

Posted
Posted
  On 11/01/2025 at 10:05, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Really like his attitude, really like how he can see a pass, he's not the tallest but makes his presence felt when he comes up for corners...but he's another that really needs to work on his fitness. At this level, he's a yard off the pace (and that's being generous).

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He'll never get what he can't and pace is that. It's obvious and as I said back at the start of the season, he and Downes aren't likely to be good enough.

S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 11/01/2025 at 10:30, BarberSaint said:

 

He'll never get what he can't and pace is that. It's obvious and as I said back at the start of the season, he and Downes aren't likely to be good enough.

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They'll be good enough if they're complimented with players who mitigate their physical weaknesses, i.e pace. But as we've seen this year, we've put Downes and THB on the pedestal as the two main men in their respective positions and they're not good enough (physically) for that at this level. In summary we went into this season totally underprepared and hung them out to dry, trying to get them to do what they did in a level below.

Neither Fonte or Toby were particularly quick, and they were two of our best PL CB's in a generation, but we complimented the team with players who helped alleviate their  physical weaknesses.

It's not all about individuals, it's about building a team to get the best out of everyone. We didn't do that, we didn't do it last season either. Our team might be a good bunch professionally, but as a unit in terms of how they compliment each other they are utterly horrific. We couldn't have got it more wrong had we tried.

Edited by S-Clarke
  • Like 1
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 11/01/2025 at 12:30, S-Clarke said:

They'll be good enough if they're complimented with players who mitigate their physical weaknesses, i.e pace. But as we've seen this year, we've put Downes and THB on the pedestal as the two main men in their respective positions and they're not good enough (physically) for that at this level. In summary we went into this season totally underprepared and hung them out to dry, trying to get them to do what they did in a level below.

Neither Fonte or Toby were particularly quick, and they were two of our best PL CB's in a generation, but we complimented the team with players who helped alleviate their  physical weaknesses.

It's not all about individuals, it's about building a team to get the best out of everyone. We didn't do that, we didn't do it last season either. Our team might be a good bunch professionally, but as a unit in terms of how they compliment each other they are utterly horrific. We couldn't have got it more wrong had we tried.

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Yep, and that’s where mainly data-driven scouting and transfer activity leads you. You miss out the balancing out across a team/squad of strengths and weaknesses, because you only look at each deal in isolation.

  • Like 1
revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
  On 11/01/2025 at 13:13, Gloucester Saint said:

Yep, and that’s where mainly data-driven scouting and transfer activity leads you. You miss out the balancing out across a team/squad of strengths and weaknesses, because you only look at each deal in isolation.

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Despite not being a fan of putting too much reliance on data, I think it's just poor decision making.  Brentford and Brighton are both largely credited with focussing on data with regard to their recruitment and they seem to do fine.  We're just a bit shit.

SR really have been crap - the amount of money they've spunked down the drain to end up with a worse squad and two relegations is quite remarkable.  

  • Like 1
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