The Euro 2024 Thread

[East Kent Saint]

7 minutes ago, Graffito said:

If your referring to the fourfoorTwo analysis, that’s not what I took from it. What I think it’s saying is that a combination of selection and tactics did not suit how Kane plays. In other words, no rashford or sterling who like to go beyond kane when he drops deep and who stretch play and create space, rather we had Bellingham, saka, foden who like ball to feet. In which case, play Watkins who runs in behind and creates space (England’s goal).

What I meant , without repeating the video !

[sad saints fan]

Pep would be hopeless as an international manager . He needs to be working with his players on a daily basis to get his ideas across . Also he couldn't spend a gazillion pounds on getting the players he wants.

 Foreign managers are never going to work IMO. Needs to be an Englishman. 

[East Kent Saint]

Yep International managers not done so well with England . Southgate much better than I thought when appointed.  Poch would be a bad fit imo , Potter's teams don't score enough goals, Howe I'm not sure he won't crack under pressure   , someone out of left field perhaps best bet .

[Charlie Wayman]

27 minutes ago, sad saints fan said:

Pep would be hopeless as an international manager . He needs to be working with his players on a daily basis to get his ideas across . Also he couldn't spend a gazillion pounds on getting the players he wants.

 Foreign managers are never going to work IMO. Needs to be an Englishman. 

Why? and Why?

[Osvaldorama]

Klopp is best choice. But doubt he’ll take it. 
 

Id go for Howe or Pochettino if Klopp is unavailable. 
 

Very sad at this news. Southgate has a lot of flaws and we have all been quick to point them out.  But he is a top, top bloke who has been a massive success when you look at our results. 

The truth is this period may have been our best ever spell. The new manager may fail to get us out of the groups again like previous years. 

I hope we bring in an attacking manager who can get the best out of our players and take us to the next level. 

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Klopp is best choice. But doubt he’ll take it. 
 

Id go for Howe or Pochettino if Klopp is unavailable. 
 

Very sad at this news. Southgate has a lot of flaws and we have all been quick to point them out.  But he is a top, top bloke who has been a massive success when you look at our results. 

The truth is this period may have been our best ever spell. The new manager may fail to get us out of the groups again like previous years. 

I hope we bring in an attacking manager who can get the best out of our players and take us to the next level. 

Southgate is a bang average manager. Nothing more. 
 

if he is as good as some say, I wonder which elite club will take him on next.

[Toussaint]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Southgate is a bang average manager. Nothing more. 
 

if he is as good as some say, I wonder which elite club will take him on next.

It may happen, but if it does his limitations will be exposed to a greater degree than at international level.

[skintsaint]

5 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Klopp is best choice. But doubt he’ll take it.

He hasn't the mental stamina for the job, soon as things go against him he gets all snarky etc. So much pressure in this job he wouldn't last.

[notnowcato]

Not that I would expect them to take the job but to suggest neither Pep or Jurgen are capable of succeeding as England manager is pure madness.

[aintforever]

Don't blame him for getting out, it really is a poisoned chalice. Too bigger expectations for a country that has won fuck-all for over half a century.

[tdmickey3]

13 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Southgate is a bang average manager. Nothing more. 
 

if he is as good as some say, I wonder which elite club will take him on next.

Agree

Bore off Gareth.... bored me stiff

Edited July 16 by tdmickey3

[sadoldgit]

16 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Klopp is best choice. But doubt he’ll take it. 
 

Id go for Howe or Pochettino if Klopp is unavailable. 
 

Very sad at this news. Southgate has a lot of flaws and we have all been quick to point them out.  But he is a top, top bloke who has been a massive success when you look at our results. 

The truth is this period may have been our best ever spell. The new manager may fail to get us out of the groups again like previous years. 

I hope we bring in an attacking manager who can get the best out of our players and take us to the next level. 

I agree that he is a top bloke and a decent human being. He is not, however, a winner. As I heard someone else say today, coming second is just top of the list of losers. Being successful means winning something. He hasn’t done that. His limitations have been there for all to see and sadly he has not learnt from them as he progressed through the job.

Frankly I don’t care who succeeds him so long as they set teams up to win rather than not lose.

I wish him every success in the future but he probably needs to have a job “upstairs” or move into something different. He would make a very good politician.

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

As I heard someone else say today, coming second is just top of the list of losers.

Sort of thing wankers like Piers Morgan say. On your reckoning every previous England player or manager over last 50 years are losers. 

[Dr. Kucho]

1 hour ago, Graffito said:

Really good that. Thanks for posting.

It’s certainly worth watching the other videos he’s done after England matches. Like why we were so good in the first half against the Netherlands etc. 

[hypochondriac]

For years England have been poor tactically, set up their teams badly and have had bad morale and the players look like they don't want to be there. Since Southgate has come in he has absolutely changed the last bit. Morale seems good with players wanting to play for him. For that he deserves a lot of credit. We are still poor tactically and set up the team badly so that hasn't changed. 

The new manager needs to continue with the morale and the sense of team that Gareth has fostered whilst also adding tactical knowhow and the x factor to make changes when things aren't working. 

[aintforever]

8 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I agree that he is a top bloke and a decent human being. He is not, however, a winner. As I heard someone else say today, coming second is just top of the list of losers. Being successful means winning something. He hasn’t done that. His limitations have been there for all to see and sadly he has not learnt from them as he progressed through the job.

Frankly I don’t care who succeeds him so long as they set teams up to win rather than not lose.

I wish him every success in the future but he probably needs to have a job “upstairs” or move into something different. He would make a very good politician.

Coming second IS success for a country as shit as England. 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

Coming second IS success for a country as shit as England. 

We have some of the best players on the planet. Being shit years ago is no real bearing on being shit now

[sadoldgit]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Don't blame him for getting out, it really is a poisoned chalice. Too bigger expectations for a country that has won fuck-all for over half a century.

It’s like a monkey on the back of the players. They are under massive pressure before they even kick a ball. We need to get rid of this “it’s coming home” nonsense and learn to enjoy the tournaments for what they are, not some sort of endorsement of us being some kind of super race of entitled to sit at the top table because of who we’re are. As has been said on here many times, we are  the international football equivalent of Southampton FC, nothing more.

I feel sorry for the next guy. Not only will he be expected to get us to finals or semi finals at least, he will be expected to do it playing like Spain or Brazil. No pressure then!

[skintsaint]

[sadoldgit]

9 minutes ago, whelk said:

Sort of thing wankers like Piers Morgan say. On your reckoning every previous England player or manager over last 50 years are losers. 

Every England manager except Sir Alf Ramsey have been losers. What is your point?

[whelk]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

Every England manager except Sir Alf Ramsey have been losers. What is your point?

You’re a stupid twat who does not understand competitive sport

[sadoldgit]

14 minutes ago, whelk said:

You’re a stupid twat who does not understand competitive sport

I understand that we have only won one trophy, but if you think that not winning trophies makes you successful, then I would suggest that it is you who is the stupid twat.

Edited July 16 by sadoldgit
Typo

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We have some of the best players on the planet. Being shit years ago is no real bearing on being shit now

Apparently we are the Southampton of international football. I cant remember Saints regularly having the best players in the world and expected to win every competition they enter with unrealistic expectations from fans. Lots of hearing bullshit and passing it off as FACT on this thread.

[sad saints fan]

57 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Why? and Why?

Because managing an international side is completely different to running a club side .

As I said in the original post Pep needs his players with him all the time because so much of what his teams do is automatic . The player on the ball will know without looking where his team mates should be therefore cutting down decision making time . This is not feasible when you only have the players for a few days before a game or a few weeks before a major competition .

Those same players will then be going back to their parent clubs and quite possibly playing a totally different way.

We have never had a foreign manager who could get as much from the players as Southgate has and as previously mentioned in this thread Sven Goran Ericson had players equally as good as the present crop and achieved very little.

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, sad saints fan said:

Because managing an international side is completely different to running a club side .

As I said in the original post Pep needs his players with him all the time because so much of what his teams do is automatic . The player on the ball will know without looking where his team mates should be therefore cutting down decision making time . This is not feasible when you only have the players for a few days before a game or a few weeks before a major competition .

Those same players will then be going back to their parent clubs and quite possibly playing a totally different way.

We have never had a foreign manager who could get as much from the players as Southgate has and as previously mentioned in this thread Sven Goran Ericson had players equally as good as the present crop and achieved very little.

I would argue that the Spanish manager made a good job of organising his team in such a way that the players knew where each other would be and what runs to make. Their first goal was a perfect example of that.

[Wade Garrett]

Pep will struggle having no financial advantage over his competition.  

Would prefer an English manager.  Eddie Howe would be my preferred choice.

[Badger]

51 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Southgate has a lot of flaws and we have all been quick to point them out.  But he is a top, top bloke who has been a massive success when you look at our results. 

The truth is this period may have been our best ever spell. The new manager may fail to get us out of the groups again like previous years. 

I hope we bring in an attacking manager who can get the best out of our players and take us to the next level. 

No immediate thoughts as to his replacements.

Whilst has had limitations as shown in the Euros with squad selection and tactics, credit where due Southgate has always tried conducting things with dignity and deserves respect for that. I felt sorry for him becoming an early target for the media ‘luvvies’ on the box (Lineacre, Neville etc) and once  that happened nothing other than winning the tournament was going to put the genie back in the bottle.

Very little confidence in the FA to get it right. So the Southgate years will probably be looked back on favourably (certainly better record of achievement than his predecessors over 50 years). 
 

Good luck to him, but the acid test, would I want him at Saints, answer would be ‘no’. 

 

[sad saints fan]

Just now, saintant said:

I would argue that the Spanish manager made a good job of organising his team in such a way that the players knew where each other would be and what runs to make. Their first goal was a perfect example of that.

Last post today ,but that is probably made much easier because Spanish teams generally play that way and do so from a very early age . Not nearly as common in this country.

[sadoldgit]

7 minutes ago, sad saints fan said:

Because managing an international side is completely different to running a club side .

As I said in the original post Pep needs his players with him all the time because so much of what his teams do is automatic . The player on the ball will know without looking where his team mates should be therefore cutting down decision making time . This is not feasible when you only have the players for a few days before a game or a few weeks before a major competition .

Those same players will then be going back to their parent clubs and quite possibly playing a totally different way.

We have never had a foreign manager who could get as much from the players as Southgate has and as previously mentioned in this thread Sven Goran Ericson had players equally as good as the present crop and achieved very little.

And yet Southgate failed every time he came up against a quality side. It has been said many times and it is true, he has been very lucky in the draws. I know you only beat what is in front of you but you must wonder what his record would look like if he had met the quality teams earlier.

[Saint Gifford]

I’m panicking now, are we about to lose our Russell………………..

[Badger]

26 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It’s like a monkey on the back of the players. They are under massive pressure before they even kick a ball. We need to get rid of this “it’s coming home” nonsense and learn to enjoy the tournaments for what they are, not some sort of endorsement of us being some kind of super race of entitled to sit at the top table because of who we’re are. 

But we should be capable of being at the top table with resources, and players at our disposal. Fact we’re not is quite an indictment of our game and how it’s run.

Agree we should scrap the ‘it’s coming home’ bollocks’ , until we actually win something . Annoys the hell out of me every time, when the news features a group of pissed up teenage saps and mongs shouting it into the camera when we beat Columbia or whoever …

If we want to focus on that song, then the Jimmy Hill excerpt is more relevant , “ we’ll go on getting bad results ..” Why ? 

[skintsaint]

14 minutes ago, sad saints fan said:

Last post today ,but that is probably made much easier because Spanish teams generally play that way and do so from a very early age . Not nearly as common in this country.

Southgate set us up playing this slow tempo football which I don't think any team in the EPL plays as far as I know. 

English players are used to playing high tempo attacking football so lets setup to make it feel more natural for them. Give us a chance.

[Jimmy_D]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

And yet Southgate failed every time he came up against a quality side. It has been said many times and it is true, he has been very lucky in the draws. I know you only beat what is in front of you but you must wonder what his record would look like if he had met the quality teams earlier.

Very few international teams face more than one or two top teams on the way to winning a trophy, and none of them go into those games thinking they’re guaranteed to win. Even fewer fully deserved to win every game along the way.

Southgate earned those easier draws to a certain extent by being far more consistent in qualifying and group stages than any other recent England manager.

Remember how often we’ve heard ‘group of death’ attached to England because we weren’t in the top seeds and ended up missing out on finishing top of the group stage as a result, or even going out in the group stage.

Part of the reason for avoiding that, and one of Southgate’s biggest accomplishments with England compared with those managers, is that we’re sat here talking about whether the football was good enough to win a tournament and not about whether the preparation or the environment around the players was to blame for yet another early exit.

[East Kent Saint]

All a bit over the top , in a tournament there is only one winner .Thus all other teams are losers !

People were complaining today at pub events everyone was covered in beer from the start of the game   and after the game there were all these blokes crying their eyes out as they left ffs what's wrong with these twats ?

Southgate has dragged England up by the bootstraps and his reward is endless abuse from tossers . Get a grip it’s a game no.more no less.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We have some of the best players on the planet. Being shit years ago is no real bearing on being shit now

We have some great attacking midfielders but I don't think the squad is as strong in other areas. The keeper is the best of a bad bunch, left back we were weak, centre back not as strong as previous squads. Centre midfield there were not massive options. I certainly don't see coming second as failure.

Edited July 16 by aintforever

[sadoldgit]

29 minutes ago, Badger said:

No immediate thoughts as to his replacements.

Whilst has had limitations as shown in the Euros with squad selection and tactics, credit where due Southgate has always tried conducting things with dignity and deserves respect for that. I felt sorry for him becoming an early target for the media ‘luvvies’ on the box (Lineacre, Neville etc) and once  that happened nothing other than winning the tournament was going to put the genie back in the bottle.

Very little confidence in the FA to get it right. So the Southgate years will probably be looked back on favourably (certainly better record of achievement than his predecessors over 50 years). 
 

Good luck to him, but the acid test, would I want him at Saints, answer would be ‘no’. 

 

To be fair to the “media luvvies” they have played the game at the highest level and are only saying what everyone else has been saying. We have all ben disappointed with the team selections and tactics. We all want our team to do us proud. I expect ex internationals who haven’t won anything either are even more keen that we finally win something. You only have to look at the reaction of the likes of Wright and Shearer when we score that it means as much to them now as it did back in their playing days.

I think that the issue with Southgate is that he not learnt from his mistakes early on and that’s why the pros get so frustrated.

[sadoldgit]

3 minutes ago, aintforever said:

We have some great attacking midfielders but I don't think the squad is as strong in other areas. The keeper is the best of a bad bunch, left back we were weak, centre back not as strong as previous squads. Centre midfield there were not massive options. I certainly don't see coming second as failure.

It depends how you define success. If not bringing home a trophy is being successful, we have bossed it from 1968 onwards! 😉

[Badger]

25 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Southgate set us up playing this slow tempo football which I don't think any team in the EPL plays as far as I know. 

English players are used to playing high tempo attacking football so lets setup to make it feel more natural for them. Give us a chance.

Until this season .. 

[notnowcato]

56 minutes ago, sad saints fan said:

Because managing an international side is completely different to running a club side .

As I said in the original post Pep needs his players with him all the time because so much of what his teams do is automatic . The player on the ball will know without looking where his team mates should be therefore cutting down decision making time . This is not feasible when you only have the players for a few days before a game or a few weeks before a major competition .

Those same players will then be going back to their parent clubs and quite possibly playing a totally different way.

We have never had a foreign manager who could get as much from the players as Southgate has and as previously mentioned in this thread Sven Goran Ericson had players equally as good as the present crop and achieved very little.

Senor de la Fuente begs to differ with pretty much everything you say

[sadoldgit]

Potter currently favourite. If we are going home grown he gets my vote.

[whelk]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I understand that we have only won one trophy, but if you think that not winning trophies makes you successful, then I would suggest that it is you who is the stupid twat.

What a dad you must be? 

Type of cunt that moaned about Adkins in the Championship as we only came second. 

[sadoldgit]

14 minutes ago, whelk said:

What a dad you must be? 

Type of cunt that moaned about Adkins in the Championship as we only came second. 

It didn’t bother me in the slightest. In fact I was unhappy with his sacking as evidenced by my posts on here at the time. His aim was to get us promoted. He was successful in that aim.

As usual you just need a cloud to shout at.

By the way, google successful international football nations and let me know if you find England anywhere remotely near the top of a list. 
Did Southgate leave because he was successful? Are the team having an open topped ride through London this weekend because they have been so successful in Germany?

They did well to get to the final. Doing well doesn’t equate to being successful (unless of course the FA and Southgate’s aim was always to be runners up, in which case he knocked it out of the park two competitions running!).

Oh, and what do my parenting abilities have to do with my opinion of Gareth Southgate’s performance as England manager?

 

 

 

Edited July 16 by sadoldgit

[sadoldgit]

There has been talk of the FA appointing an interim manager if needed. That will remind us old’uns of the time Joe Mercer was given that role in 1974. After a period of very staid football under Ramsey who insisted on picking workhorses whilst ignoring the “flare” players as they were known at the time. Joe came in and played them all! It was a joy to watch his England teams play. And then we got Don Revie!

[Dman]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

Don't blame him for getting out, it really is a poisoned chalice. Too bigger expectations for a country that has won fuck-all for over half a century.

Because we're a nation full of loosers. Southagate epitomises that. 

For me, give Carsely the job until the end of the next season - at that point, test the water with Ancolotti, if that fails pep, if that fails Tuchel. 

We don't currently have any homegrown managers ready to take us to the next level. If we have to pick one, potter or Oneil - anyone but Howe. 

[JRM]

I can't see Southgate getting a big job, more likely turn up again managing another international team, would certainly be funny if he got to play against England 

[Sunglasses Ron]

Southgate.

Very, very, decent bloke who did far better than I expected (and many give him credit for now).

Whilst some are labelling him a loser I think the foundations that he's helped put down will benefit the next manager and may just contribute to any future success that they oversee (a bit like how Nigel Pearson definitely deserved some of the recognition for Leicester's title win if you may).

Wish him well and could see him at somewhere like Newcastle or Villa next.

[CSA96]

43 minutes ago, JRM said:

I can't see Southgate getting a big job, more likely turn up again managing another international team, would certainly be funny if he got to play against England 

Could see him back at Crystal Palace if/when Glasner goes, their chairman seems to like sentimental appointments too

Also think he could get a good gig abroad, if he was open to living overseas. I reckon the US national team will try and see if he's interested

Edited July 16 by CSA96

[The Left Back]

I think I read today that in the 50 years after winning the World Cup before Southgate we won 6 knockout games in major tournaments.  Southgate won 9 in 8 years.  Hope I remember that correctly, I'm sure someone will say if not.  Regardless of any opinions those figures alone say he is a better manager than most give him credit for.

Add to that the 'club feeling' he has clearly installed in England, the connection wit thew fans the team now have  and the way he conducts himself in his job and I think he's done an excellent job.

On the other side, there's no doubt in my mind he's struggled with the creative potential at his disposal, and the recent evolution of the high press that most big clubs have adopted.  He seems a more conventional coach and has an instinct for defence more than attack.  Many feared England's ability to defend in this tournament but we were actually very well drilled and Guehi arguably our best player.

I think we may have lost anyone on Sunday anyway, but I would have liked him to persist with wingbacks and a back three so that Foden and Bellingham could both have been given more chance to shine.  Setting up a back four against a 4-3-3 is a safer play, which where I think criticism of him is fair.

Overall, the second most successful manager in our history and I wish him well.

 

 

 

 

[suewhistle]

4 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

For years England have been poor tactically, set up their teams badly and have had bad morale and the players look like they don't want to be there. Since Southgate has come in he has absolutely changed the last bit. Morale seems good with players wanting to play for him. For that he deserves a lot of credit. We are still poor tactically and set up the team badly so that hasn't changed. 

The new manager needs to continue with the morale and the sense of team that Gareth has fostered whilst also adding tactical knowhow and the x factor to make changes when things aren't working. 

I agree with you (and often don't!). You do need a decent defence as a foundation but we were just a little too safe and risk averse, both in tactics and player selection and with our in game management and use of substitutes. With the amount of long kicking Pickford did it was like lower level Championship or below. It has its uses but not against a team like Spain with the players we have.

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

I agree with you (and often don't!). You do need a decent defence as a foundation but we were just a little too safe and risk averse, both in tactics and player selection and with our in game management and use of substitutes. With the amount of long kicking Pickford did it was like lower level Championship or below. It has its uses but not against a team like Spain with the players we have.

I find it bizarre that we have so many stellar players now who are technically very good and yet we have such a very basic style. I'm not saying we will be better than Spain but we should be playing a style that is a lot more entertaining and doesn't result in us having some of the lowest amount of chances in the entire competition.