The Euro 2024 Thread

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Some of the commentators on various radio shows and podcasts have been stating we should “take it all back” about the “amazing” Southgate.

England are at the start of an era where players available won the lot at multiple youth levels.

with the right manager, we could win something…. Just like Spain and Germany in years gone. 
 

Southgate is terrible, but hey a nice bloke, so….

If you go back to our last tournaments, we've been fortunate to ridiculous levels with the draws. Denmark, Ukraine, Slovakia, Scotland, Switzerland, Slovenia etc etc - those teams have been in the runs of our Euro efforts. I'd say we've got there in spit of Southgate more than anything. The way he sets us up is old school, Mourinho-style finished in 2010 along with Allardyce. 

Back in previous years when we were weak in attack them maybe I could appreciate a focus on defending, but we have the players to cause ANYONE a problem. But the structure placed around them does not suit that style of player, it's a destructive style that is based on 'moments' and breakaways - the likes of Foden, Bellingham etc are not periphery players - they need to be involved.

[John B]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

Yeah this. Southgate has got an incredible record as England manager but you can’t argue that in every tournament we’ve got a massively favourable draw.

Sometimes you make your own luck by being solid in qualifiers and group stages. Credit to him for that, absolutely.

But, pretty much under Southgate’s tenure, we’ve had a good run but gone out when we finally meet a top tier side.

We have some very good players but I just do not think we have any fucking great players which Spain seem to have

[northam soul]

We lack that true quality in central midfield to make a real difference at this level.

Rice and Mainoo or whoever else goes in there are not good enough.

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, John B said:

We have some very good players but I just do not think we have any fucking great players which Spain seem to have

Which of Spain’s players do you think are fucking great, and not very good?

[Sheaf Saint]

14 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Great player in league games but he simply never turns up when it matters. 

He's scored more goals at Euros finals than anyone else since it began. To say he never turns up when it matters is just wrong.

But he's been very poor overall this time round, despite the goals he scored. Southgate should have dropped him much earlier.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, John B said:

We have some very good players but I just do not think we have any fucking great players which Spain seem to have

I think we do have some great players, genuinely. What Foden does for City is ridiculous, he carries them on occasions. Bellingham carried Madrid last year as well through quite a few moments. Rice turned Arsenal's midfield around and ousted Jorginho who won against us in the last Euro's.

In previous years you could argue it's because our players aren't technical enough, gross roots isn't generating the right sort etc etc - but we are now, they're there in front of us. They can match up with the best if we went for their throat, risk adverse never wins you anything.

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Badger said:

Nothing new. The problem isn’t simply Southgate, there’s something fundamentally wrong with our football if you consider what other footballing nations (that we like to compare ourselves with) have achieved in the last 50 years.

There don’t seem too many stand out candidates for the national team job 

It starts from when they are 5 or 6 years old, believe  me I’ve looked into it a lot. The Spanish, Brazilians, Argentinians they coach kids on technique, skill controlling the ball with all parts of the foot, one touch. We’re getting better with it but I look at the academies in my area all the kids are the big, strong, fast ones. The smaller kids with good technique are still over looked, parents are still stuck in the mentality of winning games and wanting their kids to play for teams that win stuff.
 

As I’ve mentioned before my lad does a club which is all about technique but parents and kids get bored with it because they say it’s the same thing every week, that’s how it works, repetition, repetition, repetition. Doing stuff over and over again until it becomes natural. 
 

Anyway I don’t think Spain have better players than us they play in a system that gets the best out of their best players. We don’t. 

[Cabrone]

Closer than I thought it would be but when will England learn that you'll never win anything with a defeatist 'hold on to what you have' kind of attitude.

I hope Southgate goes, I'd rather watch entertaining football that takes a risk than this.

We have some decent players, let them play.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

I think we do have some great players, genuinely. What Foden does for City is ridiculous, he carries them on occasions. Bellingham carried Madrid last year as well through quite a few moments. Rice turned Arsenal's midfield around and ousted Jorginho who won against us in the last Euro's.

In previous years you could argue it's because our players aren't technical enough, gross roots isn't generating the right sort etc etc - but we are now, they're there in front of us. They can match up with the best if we went for their throat, risk adverse never wins you anything.

As said further up, Bellingham, Palmer and Foden and co, are the start of the stream of players available who have won the lot for England at various youth levels

[bugenhagen]

13 minutes ago, Badger said:

A name ?

Dont disagree with your second paragraph. I thought at HT Spain were there for the taking. 
 

Trouble is the international team job isn’t a particularly popular role with all the grief that goes with it 

Front foot?

Hello!

[Sunglasses Ron]

30 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Saints have had far more bottle than England. Promotion in 2011 and 2012, the JPT, Anfield in 2017, Swansea away in 2018, the 2024 playoffs. We’re not perfect by a long way but there have been many times when we’ve held our nerve and got the job done.

Sorry pal, but in the eyes of most we’ve won nothing in nearly 50 years (just like England).

[ErwinK1961]

Suspect it will be Lee Carsley next.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

Sorry pal, but in the eyes of most we’ve won nothing in nearly 50 years (just like England).

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I'd argue that the foundation to our progress in recent years have been the draws and the teams we've played.

When we got a toughie in the quarters at the World Cup (France), we came un stuck. 

I find it hard to say it's because of Southgate we've got to finals etc, it's ultimately been the draws and the teams we've played.

England have definitely had easier sides of the draw. Although, Southgate's system works better against sides leaving some space, and not so compact.

There's also been definite issues in changing tempo, and transition. Lots of the things seen in this tournament, have been there for a while.

I guess I find it hard to criticise when they can only play who they get, and England have been beaten by smaller reputation teams in the past.

3 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

If he stays England will never go that one step further. Reactive managers never win. The space on the wings were glaringly obvious.

That one step further was 4 mins from extra time, with Watkins getting a poor touch and a header off their line. We played a system in a massive unbeaten run that leaves gaps down the flanks on purpose.

Which is sort of my view on it.

I don't mind the set up, in principle. But it struggles because it's one requiring things his squad aren't great at, geared to players he doesn't have.

For example, Mainoo and Rice don't offer enough to break up, control and progress the ball as a 2. There's not enough support for them ahead, and Foden, Bellingham and Kane can all be central. Saka gets marked out of games, but Walker in a back 4 isn't used efficiently in overlaps. Foden cuts in, offering support but with no directness.

It's a system that struggles with it's own limitations. Yet, got England very close again.

[suewhistle]

There were many grumblings in my pub about Kane. I don't particularly like it when there's a pile on but in this case I have to say that what was he there for and what did he contribute? No real movement and slow when he did, no pressing, he didn't win any balls, he didn't get off the ground.. So why wasn't he substituted at half time as the pressure Watkins put on made a difference?

Rice I thought also had a poor game: slow in possession, poor passing, although in his case he wasn't helped by an unambitious and static team around him.

It's the result I predicted but I wish we'd been a bit more ambitious: the only consolation was having a couple of pints less than I thought I would and saving a tenner!

 

 

 

 

[Turkish]

Fucking he’ll Harry Kane had more touches in his own box than the Spain box tonight 🤦

[gammon cheeks]

Best team won no complaints 

[64saint]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 

Anyway I don’t think Spain have better players than us they play in a system that gets the best out of their best players. We don’t. 

I think you've summed it up. Our players week in week out are often described as world class whilst playing for their clubs in arguably  the best league in the world but put them in an England shirt and it doesn't quite happen 

[Disco Stu]

3 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

He's scored more goals at Euros finals than anyone else since it began. To say he never turns up when it matters is just wrong.

But he's been very poor overall this time round, despite the goals he scored. Southgate should have dropped him much earlier.

I don't doubt his ability but he's played in 5 tournament finals for club and country. 0 goals. 0 Assists. Truly world class players turn up.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, suewhistle said:

There were many grumblings in my pub about Kane. I don't particularly like it when there's a pile on but in this case I have to say that what was he there for and what did he contribute? No real movement and slow when he did, no pressing, he didn't win any balls, he didn't get off the ground.. So why wasn't he substituted at half time as the pressure Watkins put on made a difference?

Rice I thought also had a poor game: slow in possession, poor passing, although in his case he wasn't helped by an unambitious and static team around him.

It's the result I predicted but I wish we'd been a bit more ambitious: the only consolation was having a couple of pints less than I thought I would and saving a tenner!

 

 

 

 

Kane is carrying something IMO, it's the only conclusion I can come to - he hit 40 odd goals in Germany this year. Or is German football that horrific that it's regressed him as a player?

Rice had a poor tournament overall, but I think that is primarily down to lack of a stable partner. We went into the tournament with no idea who to partner him with. Started with Trent, moved to Gallagher and then went with the kid (Mainoo) - who was the best of the bunch, but he's still a kid and todays game was way, way too big for him.

Mainoo could develop into Rice's partner, but I was surprised we didn't see more of Wharton - he is your typical dictating CM, nothing flashy about him, but he keeps the ball and is stable.

[Sunglasses Ron]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

 

[AlexLaw76]

England’s Xg is below 1 per game and less than Croatia’s (who went out in the groups).

in the knockout phase, we led for 35 mins, which includes extra time.

we never rested players in group game 3… Spain made 10 changes at the same point.

with the players we have available, madness

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, 64saint said:

I think you've summed it up. Our players week in week out are often described as world class whilst playing for their clubs in arguably  the best league in the world but put them in an England shirt and it doesn't quite happen 

Are Saka, Bellingham, Kane, Foden and Palmer worse than Jammal, Williams and Morata? I’d say absolutely not but the only England one that delivered was Palmer and he only played 20 mins a game 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Kane is carrying something IMO, it's the only conclusion I can come to - he hit 40 odd goals in Germany this year. Or is German football that horrific that it's regressed him as a player?

Rice had a poor tournament overall, but I think that is primarily down to lack of a stable partner. We went into the tournament with no idea who to partner him with. Started with Trent, moved to Gallagher and then went with the kid (Mainoo) - who was the best of the bunch, but he's still a kid and todays game was way, way too big for him.

Mainoo could develop into Rice's partner, but I was surprised we didn't see more of Wharton - he is your typical dictating CM, nothing flashy about him, but he keeps the ball and is stable.

As Souness said Kane is playing like he's towing a caravan.

[Disco Stu]

13 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

That one step further was 4 mins from extra time, with Watkins getting a poor touch and a header off their line. We played a system in a massive unbeaten run that leaves gaps down the flanks on purpose.

Which is sort of my view on it.

I don't mind the set up, in principle. But it struggles because it's one requiring things his squad aren't great at, geared to players he doesn't have.

For example, Mainoo and Rice don't offer enough to break up, control and progress the ball as a 2. There's not enough support for them ahead, and Foden, Bellingham and Kane can all be central. Saka gets marked out of games, but Walker in a back 4 isn't used efficiently in overlaps. Foden cuts in, offering support but with no directness.

It's a system that struggles with it's own limitations. Yet, got England very close again.

We were also 30 seconds from getting knocked out by Slovakia. We scrape through low ranking opponents and then lose to the first real quality we face. Just like the last time against France. And the time before that against Italy. And the time before that to Croatia who finished behind Iceland in their group. Southgate doesn't have the nous to get us over the line. Setting his teams up against its strengths is a big part of that.

Edited July 14 by Disco Stu

[Badger]

15 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I don’t think we need transforming. We are a very solid side that you can almost bank on getting out of the group stages. Gareth Southgate has done well at that but it’s hardly above expectations for a competent manager.

And the FA is very rich so can afford to shop around for a top quality candidate.

Don’t you think we need ‘transforming’ for ‘also rand’ to tournament winners , or is that simply going to evolve on its own in time ?

Accept the wealth held by the FA but that has previously brought us Sven, Cappello and of course Steve McLaren. During which time we won fuck all. 

[Saint Gifford]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

I think we do have some great players, genuinely. What Foden does for City is ridiculous, he carries them on occasions. Bellingham carried Madrid last year as well through quite a few moments. Rice turned Arsenal's midfield around and ousted Jorginho who won against us in the last Euro's.

In previous years you could argue it's because our players aren't technical enough, gross roots isn't generating the right sort etc etc - but we are now, they're there in front of us. They can match up with the best if we went for their throat, risk adverse never wins you anything.

Hit the nail on the head. England coaching isn’t at the forefront. We do have some very good technical players all the way down the pyramid. 

Imo coaching and FA are ignoring technical ability, they even closed the futsal program a couple of years ago. 
 

Feel for Southgate, but historical coaching programs and scouting needs a bit of a revisit for me. 
 

 

[BotleySaint]

4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Southgate doesn't have the nous to get us over the line.

This basically. After we scored Spain dominated the ball. You could see we were tired and Southgate didn't make a change. Someone like Gallagher coming on might have helped break them up a bit. Instead he just waited for the inevitable.

[bugenhagen]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Are Saka, Bellingham, Kane, Foden and Palmer worse than Jammal, Williams and Morata? I’d say absolutely not but the only England one that delivered was Palmer and he only played 20 mins a game 

Agree, and to me it looks like Spain has several players moving off the ball and known patterns of play, while England is waiting for a moment of brilliance amd only one movement at the time.

[Scoobysaint]

At times it was like watching a Nathan Jones team. The amount of long balls pumped up by Pickford was just ridiculous. A team full of top players who play at mainly possession based clubs and we are just launching it forwards in hope to feed off scraps. Noticeable that our goal came from a quick throw out from Pickford. Also, the reason Spain had the ball back to get their second was because of yet another long ball up to Watkins. They get the throw, actually pass the ball forward to a teammate and a few moments later, goal.

We were lucky to get as far as we did and that was only because we got lucky with the draw. 

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Kane is carrying something IMO, it's the only conclusion I can come to - he hit 40 odd goals in Germany this year. Or is German football that horrific that it's regressed him as a player?

Rice had a poor tournament overall, but I think that is primarily down to lack of a stable partner. We went into the tournament with no idea who to partner him with. Started with Trent, moved to Gallagher and then went with the kid (Mainoo) - who was the best of the bunch, but he's still a kid and todays game was way, way too big for him.

Mainoo could develop into Rice's partner, but I was surprised we didn't see more of Wharton - he is your typical dictating CM, nothing flashy about him, but he keeps the ball and is stable.

They said that in the two tournaments before this. He was poor in euro 2020 everyone said he was carrying an injury, same goes for the last World Cup and in this tournament. He was terrible in this one every game he slowed it down, gave it away, he got booked tonight because he was so slow on the ball. He’s clearly a class player his goal scoring record is a match for anyone but he’s looked so poor the last 3 tournaments the difference when more mobile strikers came on was evident 

[The Kraken]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Don’t you think we need ‘transforming’ for ‘also rand’ to tournament winners , or is that simply going to evolve on its own in time ?

Accept the wealth held by the FA but that has previously brought us Sven, Cappello and of course Steve McLaren. During which time we won fuck all. 

No. 

it may pedantic but I don’t think it’s a transformation, I think it’s a progression. And I think Southgate has been holding us back, he’s not a brilliant manager by any stretch. I think if we had a genuinely brilliant manager at the helm we’d see different things. And I think the three managers you mention were not top notch appointments (although we paid top price for them).

[SNSUN]

One good thing to come out of the tournament is that Guehi will now be a first choice CB and we will not have to see Maguire shoehorned in there ever again.

Also Mainoo seems to be answering questions about who partners Rice going forwards.

[Lighthouse]

19 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

Sorry pal, but in the eyes of most we’ve won nothing in nearly 50 years (just like England).

Neither has 75% of the football league. Saints are basically the Slovenia of the PL, I wouldn’t have expected them to win something major against the likes of City, Arsenal and Liverpool.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, BotleySaint said:

This basically. After we scored Spain dominated the ball. You could see we were tired and Southgate didn't make a change. Someone like Gallagher coming on might have helped break them up a bit. Instead he just waited for the inevitable.

He's the definition of a reactive manager. Sometimes the changes work when you are chasing, such as against Holland - but it's not the way to manage if you want any form of success, apart from the odd win here and there.

He's not shrewd enough to read the game to understand what's changing and act before the pattern changes. The top, top managers such as Klopp, Pep etc, can react before the rest of us can see because they know what's about to happen. It's a flaw in his managerial skillset and his coaches.

It has held us back during the best opportunities we've had to win trophies.

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

They said that in the two tournaments before this. He was poor in euro 2020 everyone said he was carrying an injury, same goes for the last World Cup and in this tournament. He was terrible in this one every game he slowed it down, gave it away, he got booked tonight because he was so slow on the ball. He’s clearly a class player his goal scoring record is a match for anyone but he’s looked so poor the last 3 tournaments the difference when more mobile strikers came on was evident 

Shouldn’t have even had Kane in the squad based on the fact that he is cursed and destined to win fuck all. 

[SouSaint]

The game was there to win at 1-1 but we sat back. That's on the manager. 

[SNSUN]

Also as good as Lamal is, and will become, kudos to De La Fuente for having the balls to play a 16 year old from the start. He's lit up this tournament. 

[James]

Southgate will take a lot of stick but there were some really poor individual performances. Walker, in particular, was wayward for both goals, Rice terrible, Foden terrible, Kane on one leg. You can criticise the manager for being too cautious and for not having the stones to drop the names but he’s not on the pitch with players underperforming like that.

[Ted Bates Statue]

25 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It starts from when they are 5 or 6 years old, believe  me I’ve looked into it a lot. The Spanish, Brazilians, Argentinians they coach kids on technique, skill controlling the ball with all parts of the foot, one touch. We’re getting better with it but I look at the academies in my area all the kids are the big, strong, fast ones. The smaller kids with good technique are still over looked, parents are still stuck in the mentality of winning games and wanting their kids to play for teams that win stuff.
. 

You could have easily written this 10 or 15 years ago. Really disappointing that despite all the advancements, we are still clinging to these outdated notions of prioritising physicality and 'winning' over skill and development.

[James]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He's the definition of a reactive manager. Sometimes the changes work when you are chasing, such as against Holland - but it's not the way to manage if you want any form of success, apart from the odd win here and there.

He's not shrewd enough to read the game to understand what's changing and act before the pattern changes. The top, top managers such as Klopp, Pep etc, can react before the rest of us can see because they know what's about to happen. It's a flaw in his managerial skillset and his coaches.

It has held us back during the best opportunities we've had to win trophies.

I think the last sentence is a little harsh. In the past we’ve had so called super managers in charge with teams arguably as talented if not more talented than the current crop. Southgate has mastered the basics of tournament football, he’s topped groups and beaten teams we should beat. In the past, we couldn’t beat Algeria. Let’s give credit where credit is due - a shame he hasn’t quite gotten us there but we’ve been very close twice. I won’t be under estimating the job it takes to do that when the next man comes in. Careful what we wish for is all I’ll say. 

[Sarisbury Saint]

31 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It starts from when they are 5 or 6 years old, believe  me I’ve looked into it a lot. The Spanish, Brazilians, Argentinians they coach kids on technique, skill controlling the ball with all parts of the foot, one touch. We’re getting better with it but I look at the academies in my area all the kids are the big, strong, fast ones. The smaller kids with good technique are still over looked, parents are still stuck in the mentality of winning games and wanting their kids to play for teams that win stuff.
 

As I’ve mentioned before my lad does a club which is all about technique but parents and kids get bored with it because they say it’s the same thing every week, that’s how it works, repetition, repetition, repetition. Doing stuff over and over again until it becomes natural. 
 

Anyway I don’t think Spain have better players than us they play in a system that gets the best out of their best players. We don’t. 

Your absolutely bang on with this.

I have seen it and still do. It seems development is less important than winning from a very early age.

Its not just the coaches fault, it’s mainly the uneducated parents influence.

[S-Clarke]

7 minutes ago, James said:

I think the last sentence is a little harsh. In the past we’ve had so called super managers in charge with teams arguably as talented if not more talented than the current crop. Southgate has mastered the basics of tournament football, he’s topped groups and beaten teams we should beat. In the past, we couldn’t beat Algeria. Let’s give credit where credit is due - a shame he hasn’t quite gotten us there but we’ve been very close twice. I won’t be under estimating the job it takes to do that when the next man comes in. Careful what we wish for is all I’ll say. 

If you go back to our tournaments under Sven, we went out against a super Portugal team of the time in 2004 and 2006, first tough team we faced really. In 2022 we were knocked out by Brazil.

Capello was knocked out in 2010 by Germany, a very good Germany in that period too. Hodgson done by a good Italian team in 2012. 2014 and 2016 the less said the better, team was in a weird transitional phase.

Under Southgate we've had really, really fortunate draws to get through to the latter stages of tournaments. I don't think anyone can deny that when you compare the teams Sven had to face early on in the quarters for example.

I think Southgate has done the same as Sven really, beaten who you'd expect us to beat, but fallen short when facing the really good sides - we've just been lucky to avoid the really good sides until the real later stages (finals) in the recent tournaments.

Edited July 14 by S-Clarke

[StrangelyBrown]

14 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

No. 

it may pedantic but I don’t think it’s a transformation, I think it’s a progression. And I think Southgate has been holding us back, he’s not a brilliant manager by any stretch. I think if we had a genuinely brilliant manager at the helm we’d see different things. And I think the three managers you mention were not top notch appointments (although we paid top price for them).

Not sure about this. We're at the end of Howard Wilkinson's strategy to reset English football. Job done. Now we need a new strategy that creates a clear identity for English football and delivers on that. This is far deeper than simply the manager isnt good enough.

We don't really have an identity other than making other teams play down to our level.

[Sunglasses Ron]

15 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Neither has 75% of the football league. Saints are basically the Slovenia of the PL, I wouldn’t have expected them to win something major against the likes of City, Arsenal and Liverpool.

Yup, you’re quite right and there’ll be Tottenham, Newcastle, West Ham fans etc. all having the same conversations tonight.

There’s no doubt than England’s failings over the last 50 years are vastly greater than ours, yet they seem so relatable.

 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Not sure about this. We're at the end of Howard Wilkinson's strategy to reset English football. Job done. Now we need a new strategy that creates a clear identity for English football and delivers on that. This is far deeper than simply the manager isnt good enough.

We don't really have an identity other than making other teams play down to our level.

We’ve got lucky draws but we’ve made two finals and a semi in the last 3 tournaments. And that’s Howard Wilkinson?

Fucking hell 🤣🤣🤣

[James]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

If you go back to our tournaments under Sven, we went out against a super Portugal team of the time in 2004 and 2006, first tough team we faced really. In 2022 we were knocked out by Brazil.

Capello was knocked out in 2010 by Germany, a very good Germany in that period too. Hodgson done by a good Italian team in 2012. 2014 and 2016 the less said the better, team was in a weird transitional phase.

Under Southgate we've had really, really fortunate draws to get through to the latter stages of tournaments. I don't think anyone can deny that when you compare the teams Sven had to face early on in the quarters for example.

I think Southgate has done the same as Sven really, beaten who you'd expect us to beat, but fallen short when facing the really good sides - we've just been lucky to avoid the really good sides until the real later stages (finals) in the recent tournaments.

The difference is Southgate has navigated the group stages well and has gotten us better draws. You can’t give Capello a pass for losing to Germany when the reason we faced them was because we finished second. Southgate has managed to help us avoid that and deserves credit, it’s not all luck. As for the “super” Portugal team, not sure I agree. They were about as good as the Netherlands team we saw off in the semi. 

[sadoldgit]

A miss is as good as a mile. He is not a winner. His nature is to play it safe until he doesn’t have a choice and then it is down to luck. 
Spain were the best team in the competition and worthy winners. Although we had one of the strongest squads, we were one of the poorest teams. We relied on what the pundits call ‘moments.’ That is what teams from the lower divisions do when they play prem teams. Moments of quality and/or moments of luck. Quality teams like Spain don’t play safe and hope for the best. There was one team looking to win the game in normal time and it wasn’t us.

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, James said:

The difference is Southgate has navigated the group stages well and has gotten us better draws. You can’t give Capello a pass for losing to Germany when the reason we faced them was because we finished second. Southgate has managed to help us avoid that and deserves credit, it’s not all luck. As for the “super” Portugal team, not sure I agree. They were about as good as the Netherlands team we saw off in the semi. 

His ‘navigation’ mainly consisted of going 1-0 up against Serbia and then being sh*t for the remaining four hours of football. Don’t forget in 2018 he bizarrely managed to get a favourable draw by losing to Belgium and finishing second. To do that and then get Colombia, Sweden and Croatia was an astonishing turn of luck.

[stknowle]

I’m stuck between resigned acceptance that we lost to easily the better side and utter smash-the-room up fury that the 2nd chance in MY LIFE of seeing us win something has slipped through our fingers without that much of a fight. Spain move on to 5 major tournament wins we remain stuck on our pathetic 1.