The Euro 2024 Thread

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Exactly. Moaning about not having a replacement and not playing the replacement.

Wharton isn’t the answer

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Wharton isn’t the answer

playing players in their right positions is a must though, but personally don't think we need two holding midfielders anyway.

[saintant]

It seems to me that Southgate is the only person in the country who believes we need two holding midfielders. This is one of the major things holding us back and stiffling us.

[Convict Colony]

On 09/06/2024 at 13:23, Convict Colony said:

Southgate sets us up of to keep it tight and try and sneak one school of mgmt, not a bad thing if you've not got good players in tournament football be we have actually good players in most positions.

I get he's worried about us defensively but let's not have 2 DM's in games please (the Henderson/Phillips pivot ended me), 1 DM + 1CM hopefully that's Rice and Bellingham 

 

hopefully we get this and foden in the 10 next game and someone like gordon or eze on the left.

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

playing players in their right positions is a must though, but personally don't think we need two holding midfielders anyway.

Wharton is cover for Rice. The riches we have in talent we aren’t, or shouldn’t be depending on a rookie with a handful of PL games under his belt. On Southgate that he has no plan. All those fucking games when they pause football and the twat is experimenting…..,,badly

[Holmes_and_Watson]

On 09/06/2024 at 12:23, Convict Colony said:

I get he's worried about us defensively but let's not have 2 DM's in games please (the Henderson/Phillips pivot ended me), 1 DM + 1CM hopefully that's Rice and Bellingham 

 

Weird quoting the quote your last post quoted from you...ow...head hurts... 🙂

In tournament mind, that's a heck of a risk. What if just having the 1 DM means England go behind?

Southgate would have to rely on one of the best attacking line ups in world football, to try and claw his way back into the game. 🙂

[die Mannyschaft]

Boring. But end up top then can avoid the big guns in round 16

[Osvaldorama]

25 minutes ago, whelk said:

Wharton isn’t the answer

He easily could be. 
 

Very talented player that plays on the half turn, which is exactly what we are missing 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

He easily could be. 
 

Very talented player that plays on the half turn, which is exactly what we are missing 

Southgate won't like that.

[kevdoh]

2 hours ago, James said:

He has at least been coherent at the last 3 tournaments. This one he’s lost the plot I think. Throwing together combinations that have never been tried and it’s not working.

Be hasn't been coherent he's been shite the whole time. Beaten every single time by a decent nation bar an absolute shambles of a German side at wembley and that was by fine margins. Our weak point is defence yet he carries on playing shite negative football. He's made foden, saka, and many others look shite. He even managed to make Bellingham look shite tonight. He's fucking clueless and clung onto the job because we have had the easiest route ever into semi finals/ final in recent tournaments when all the other big nations have been at their weakest for years. If he lucks out and gets a decent club after England I would bet anything I've got he will be sacked in first 6 months. He's woefully out of his depth

[bpsaint]

1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Exactly. Moaning about not having a replacement and not playing the replacement.

Would love to know JWP’s thoughts hearing that. Imagine missing out on a place in the squad to Kalvin Phillips time after time despite him hardly playing, moving club to improve your international chances, don’t get picked for the Euros, and then have to listen to Southgate bemoan not having a replacement for Phillips 😂😂

Can we sack him after the group stage and bring in Jose for the next round? Is that allowed? 

[East Kent Saint]

I hope the whole England squad are watching Spain showing how to pass AND move the ball up the pitch AND passing to their own players 😁

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

I hope the whole England squad are watching Spain showing how to pass AND move the ball up the pitch AND passing to their own players 😁

Yeah Spain were great, I believe we have the players in attack who can do that - if they're afforded a system to do so.

The guy who has surprised me the most has been Marc Cucurella, I think he's been great in both of Spains games. And where the feck did they pull Ayoze Perez from? I had no idea he was still playing for Spain.

[kevdoh]

On 17/06/2024 at 09:11, ErwinK1961 said:

Guehi will be a top player, but he’s not there yet. 

I just don’t think there’s a comparison to the 2004/2006 team/squad.

Those squads undoubtedly better on paper but too many big names that couldn't be left out meant square pegs in round holes. That, and the other big nations being really strong meant it was so much harder to win a major tournament. In recent times, we have had 2 semi finals and a final with a fraud of a manager because we have had a very strong squad and everyone else being at their weakest ever. We went 1-0 up at wembley against a shite Italy and sat back for 88 minutes when they were there for the taking. Anyone that defends Southgate because of recent placings are missing the point. We got that far despite him. If we had even a half competent manager we would have won at least 1 of the last 3 tournaments. I'd cry if saints appointed him he is utter gash

[Saint_Ash]

What we were missing in that game was another defensive midfielder in Kalvin Phillips. Shows the mentality of the pathetic man. 

[AlexLaw76]

10 minutes ago, Saint_Ash said:

What we were missing in that game was another defensive midfielder in Kalvin Phillips. Shows the mentality of the pathetic man. 

I am almost certain that not one England fan around the 90 min point thought that what we were missing was Kalvin Phillips 

[Saint_Ash]

 

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I am almost certain that not one England fan around the 90 min point thought that what we were missing was Kalvin Phillips 

Exactly. How detached is he to even say it let alone think it?

Edited June 20 by Saint_Ash

[Saint_Ash]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

That comment summed him up entirely really. He seems to think we need two DM's in the side, i.e. Rice and Phillips. Such a passive manager, dull as dishwater.

We have some of the best attackers in the entire world in the front 4, statistically from this season they are the best in the world. Somehow we are making them invisible, that's not down to the players.

Exactly this, he feels we've lost because we've not filled the two defensive midfielder roles properly. Our front 4 or 5, if utilised effectively, would destroy most teams in the world. The negative approach of Southgate is staggering. 

[Baird of the land]

17 minutes ago, Saint_Ash said:

What we were missing in that game was another defensive midfielder in Kalvin Phillips. Shows the mentality of the pathetic man. 

Also must be so demoralising for the players he actually called up.

[Bad Wolf]

35 minutes ago, Saint_Ash said:

What we were missing in that game was another defensive midfielder in Kalvin Phillips. Shows the mentality of the pathetic man. 

I saw that quote on one of these Facebook pages and genuinely thought that was satire. Surely he's trying to get himself sacked?

[SNSUN]

35 minutes ago, Saint_Ash said:

What we were missing in that game was another defensive midfielder in Kalvin Phillips. Shows the mentality of the pathetic man. 

And in saying that, potentially annoying Wharton and Gallagher, both CMs who have been overlooked in trying the Trent experiment. I won't lie, I had Trent in my team to start against Serbia but it was clear it didn't work - so why try it a second time? Wharton may be inexperienced at the top level but he has been taken for a reason - he should absolutely start against Slovenia.

[saintant]

Sit Rice in front of the back 4 but with licence to go forward at opportune moments and leave the back 4 to defend which is their job. Give Bellingham and Foden floating roles behind a fluid front three of Bowen, Palmer and Watkins who should be encouraged to shift around to find pockets of space. These are very good footballers so don't curb their creativity. Everything we do under Southgate is risk averse, static and predictable. Trust the players and let them perform with freedom. Let's at least show what we are all about - if we fail at least we've done so by trying to play on the front foot rather than the sterile shit Southgate is presiding over.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

3 hours ago, adrian lord said:

Any one of the big European nations will destroy us in the knockout stages. 

Are there any non-European nations that can destroy us in the knockout stages? 😂 

[Galway saint]

That was abysmal. Reminded me of the turnip taylor days but without carlton palmer.

There’s no functioning midfield or width on the left and by the end the players didn’t know what day it was. At times there was no one up front and kane seemed to be playing CM.

Think a lot of that is down to the coach and the way they set up. It was a shambles really.

We need to ditch the TAA experiment and play rice as DM and bellingham as the CM and at least try and get some control and cohesion.

Not sure if shaw is fit but we are crying out for him at LB as Trippier offers nothing going forward 

 

[cambsaint]

How can anyone get so many outstanding players to play so badly?

The phrase "Lions led by a donkey" comes to my mind ( With apologies to all the WW1 heroes.)

[Dark Munster]

6 hours ago, Bob60 said:

One word passive, and that is down to Shutgate, is it possible to sack him mid tournament.

Ivory Coast did just that in this year's Afcon, after an abysmal group stage where they luckily scraped through.

And they then went on to win the tournament with their caretaker manager!

Of course there's no chance that the brainless dinosaurs running the English FA would even consider it.

[East Kent Saint]

10 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Yeah Spain were great, I believe we have the players in attack who can do that - if they're afforded a system to do so.

The guy who has surprised me the most has been Marc Cucurella, I think he's been great in both of Spains games. And where the feck did they pull Ayoze Perez from? I had no idea he was still playing for Spain.

Cucurella was picked out before the first match as a weak link by the TV pundits !

[trousers]

😂

 

[east-stand-nic]

Over here we all agreed a month ago that England would not be winning the Euro's again. In the main it is down to GS. A better more attack minded team building manager would have a chance but under GS we will win nothing ever.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Got to say (again), watching England was like watching Saints to a large extent. The system is wide open to counter attack, a bit boring for large portions of the game and a lack of closing down/press in numbers.

[wild-saint]

12 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

He easily could be. 
 

Very talented player that plays on the half turn, which is exactly what we are missing 

Agree, i really like him. A bit of a gamble but fortune favours the brave as they say. 

[aintforever]

8 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Got to say (again), watching England was like watching Saints to a large extent. The system is wide open to counter attack, a bit boring for large portions of the game and a lack of closing down/press in numbers.

That’s a fucking insult to Saints, at least we can string a few passes together.

[gio1saints]

I thought Spain v Italy showed Saints what to expect this season.

Italy technically very good and at times play the PB system out from the back beautifully. Like Saints.

But equally Spain swarmed them and regained possession in the Italian last third numerous times and could have scored a sackful. Probably like many teams will attempt to do to us this season. 

Italy “only” lost 1-0 to a brilliant Spain team ( insert most top half teams EPL at least I guess) and only by an own goal - so perhaps may consider the tactics “ almost” succeeded. But Spain win that game 8/10 times if they keep playing that way. And Saints may keep losing ( and heavily) unless they find variation in their pattern of play. Like we did last four matches. 
Spains domination of that strong Italian team was the outstanding team performance if the tournament so far- for me. They are who RM should be attempting to copy. 

Edited June 21 by gio1saints

[suewhistle]

No, by half way through the season Saints knew what they were doing and made space for each other and understood the angles and their individual roles. Nobody did last night: Rice may be a good player but had too much to do and looked lost, TAA is not a midfielder and to be honest Downes would have done better there with his dynamism and keeping the ball moving - the odd long pass from TAA doesn't make up for doing what a central midfielder needs to do.

As one article I saw said, they were playing with so much fear and gawd knows what will happen when we come up against a team like Spain.

I saw some of the Scotland game and thought what appalling passing, and then last night thought it all over again. The only good thing is the local pub's turnover getting a much needed boost, even if drinking more in sorrow than celebration.

 

[malcolm waldron]

10 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Got to say (again), watching England was like watching Saints to a large extent. The system is wide open to counter attack, a bit boring for large portions of the game and a lack of closing down/press in numbers.

Except for when Pickford constantly banged long balls down the pitch only to hand possession immediately back to the Danes.  Made me appreciate how well (generally) Saints kept the ball last season.

[S-Clarke]

13 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Got to say (again), watching England was like watching Saints to a large extent. The system is wide open to counter attack, a bit boring for large portions of the game and a lack of closing down/press in numbers.

Not even close, not sure where that comparison comes from.

England were inept, and have been for months now. Couldn't even keep the ball, no movement up top, barley any attempts at goal. That's nothing like us from last season, you don't get 87 points by playing like England.

Club managers like Arteta, Carlo, Pep, Klopp etc must be pulling their hair out when they see the horrendous misuse of genuine top level talent in Foden, Bellingham, Rice, Palmer, Saka (he hasn't even played a min yet, which is bonkers).

This has been a decent Euro's in the main, I like watching the teams who take the hand break off and just go for it - and they'll get the rewards for doing that. A manager making a team like us, with the talent we have, suffocating the hell out of any attacking momentum should be a crime. These players must absolutely hate playing for England.

[Saint Fan CaM]

6 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

Except for when Pickford constantly banged long balls down the pitch only to hand possession immediately back to the Danes.  Made me appreciate how well (generally) Saints kept the ball last season.

That’s very true actually. Think that was a reflection on the general useless communication of the tactical ideas the coaching team were trying to implement. It was quite frankly one of the worst examples we’ve ever seen in recent years.

[Saint Fan CaM]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Not even close, not sure where that comparison comes from.

England were inept, and have been for months now. Couldn't even keep the ball, no movement up top, barley any attempts at goal. That's nothing like us from last season, you don't get 87 points by playing like England.

Club managers like Arteta, Carlo, Pep, Klopp etc must be pulling their hair out when they see the horrendous misuse of genuine top level talent in Foden, Bellingham, Rice, Palmer, Saka (he hasn't even played a min yet, which is bonkers).

This has been a decent Euro's in the main, I like watching the teams who take the hand break off and just go for it - and they'll get the rewards for doing that. A manager making a team like us, with the talent we have, suffocating the hell out of any attacking momentum should be a crime. These players must absolutely hate playing for England.

Think you’ve inadvertently answered your own question there. The systems are similar in design, but England didn’t deploy the system very well atall. And there are similarities to some Saints performance’s - for example, sometimes there is no movement up top…anyone watching the last season would recognise this.

[Sheaf Saint]

47 minutes ago, trousers said:

😂

 

My favourite comment...

[skintsaint]

20 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

Except for when Pickford constantly banged long balls down the pitch only to hand possession immediately back to the Danes.  Made me appreciate how well (generally) Saints kept the ball last season.

Although near the end of the game, Pickford running up the pitch to take a free kick .......to then play it short.

[Saint Billy]

When are we ever going to get an England manager that just fucking goes for it instead of crawling up their own arses and over thinking it and trying to be clever by playing players out of their best positions.

Many have said to me prior to the Euros that with the amount of talent we have we should win the tournament easily, then realisation kicks back in quickly when considering who’s in charge. 

 

 

[Sheaf Saint]

21 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

Except for when Pickford constantly banged long balls down the pitch only to hand possession immediately back to the Danes.  Made me appreciate how well (generally) Saints kept the ball last season.

Agreed.

One thing I really noticed last night is how much England struggled to beat the Danish press and pass it out from the back on the occasions that Pickford didn't just launch it long. 

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

2 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

When are we ever going to get an England manager that just fucking goes for it instead of crawling up their own arses

What is Keegan up to these days?

[saintant]

Southgate is clearly a negative, risk averse man. With all the elite footballers at his disposal rather than getting them playing on the front foot and attacking in numbers he'd rather go for the safe option. It's clear he's told the team that, when the opponents have the ball, they must immediately drop 20 yards back to protect our goal because, God forbid, we let one in.  This means that if we get the ball back we are deep in our own half and every attempt at mounting an attack must start from there. It is a crazy tactic and one which should be saved for the countries with lesser talent available. The players must hate playing this way with the handbrake on and watching it is akin to sticking pins in your eye. How can players we watch every week demonstrating their outstanding talent be reduced to looking like none of them have ever seen a football and are gamely trying to make even a single accurate pass? It's a complete shit show and the blame rests with Southgate.

[skintsaint]

[Midfield_General]

The thing is, quite aside from the general over-defensiveness, it really isn't hard to analyse why we generally look so poor. 

We've got a very right-footed right-back playing at left back, a right-back who's never played defensive midfield before playing at defensive midfield and a number 10 playing on the left. Kane also looks nowhere near fit to me, he was barely moving yesterday, barely even breaking into a jog. He's had back problems and he looks nowhere near ready fitness-wise. And no, I don't think scoring a tap-in that bobbled straight to his feet makes in any difference to that. Straightaway that's four issues out of eleven positions.

The whole left side is a complete mess. Trippier is so right-footed that he just doesn't work as a left-back in a four - he's so easy to defend against when he comes forward because he comes inside onto his right literally every single time. Throw in Foden ahead of him who wants to be in the middle or the other side and it means the whole left side is fucked and there's no width at all. Then factor in the TAA abomination and other players trying to compensate for him not knowing where he's supposed to be and it's why it looks such a shit show straight off the bat. 

I don't particularly rate Gordon but he actually plays on the left so play him there because he can't do any worse than Foden has been made to look. Gallagher, Mainoo and Wharton are all deep-lying midfielders so play one of them there. And if Kane isn't fit he needs dropping, at least Watkins can fucking move. You end up with a side with fewer 'star names' but one that actually has the basic look and shape of a football team. England always do this forcing of square pegs into round holes and then wondering why it fails, it drives me spare. 

He won't make basic fixes though. He'll keep playing people out of position so the shape is a mess, we'll scrape past Slovenia, then scrape past Poland or someone in the next round, and then out we go to the first big team we play who have the managerial nous to identify the multiple weaknesses being needlessly inflicted onto this side as well as having the players to exploit them. Same as it ever was. Such a missed opportunity. 

Edited June 21 by Midfield_General

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

The thing is, quite aside from the general over-defensiveness, it really isn't hard to analyse why we generally look so poor. 

We've got a very right-footed right-back playing at left back, a right-back who's never played defensive midfield before playing at defensive midfield and a number 10 playing on the left. Kane also looks nowhere near fit to me, he was barely moving yesterday, barely even breaking into a jog. He's had back problems and he looks nowhere near ready fitness-wise. And no, I don't think scoring a tap-in that bobbled straight to his feet makes in any difference to that. Straightaway that's four issues out of eleven positions.

The whole left side is a complete mess. Trippier is so right-footed that he just doesn't work as a left-back in a four - he's so easy to defend against when he comes forward because he comes inside onto his right literally every single time. Throw in Foden ahead of him who wants to be in the middle or the other side and it means the whole left side is fucked and there's no width at all. Then factor in the TAA abomination and other players trying to compensate for him not knowing where he's supposed to be and it's why it looks such a shit show straight off the bat. 

I don't particularly rate Gordon but he actually plays on the left so play him there because he can't do any worse than Foden has been made to look. Gallagher, Mainoo and Wharton are all deep-lying midfielders so play one of them there. And if Kane isn't fit he needs dropping, at least Watkins can fucking move. You end up with a side with fewer 'star names' but one that actually has the basic look and shape of a football team. England always do this forcing of square pegs into round holes and then wondering why it fails, it drives me spare. 

He won't make basic fixes though. He'll keep playing people out of position so the shape is a mess, we'll scrape past Slovenia, then scrape past Poland or someone in the next round, and then out we go to the first big team we play who have the managerial nous to identify the multiple weaknesses being needlessly inflicted onto this side as well as the players to exploit them. Same as it ever was. Such a missed opportunity. 

He was like that in the last world cup and Euros too, he got away with it because he scored some important goals but his overall play and energy levels was really poor. So slow, lethargic Drops deep, rarely gets in behind when you're playing against 3 big, slow centre halves he isn't going to offer a threat unless the ball drops to him in the area, which is did, fortunately, last night.

What you're saying is spot on, Foden is a class player but he looks really isolated and frustrated, Rice is having to cover for this ridiculous notion TAA is the worlds best passer and has to be in there somewhere, meanwhile Tripper is toiling at left back because he's taken an unfit Shaw and no one else, ridiculous. 

The omission of Grealish from the squad looks an absolute disaster to me, a naturally left sided player who can keep hold of the ball, get us up the pitch and create chances and win free kicks in dangerous areas. He might not have had the best of seasons but he's still better than anything shown so far. A front 4 of Grealish, Foden, Saka and Kane with Rice and Beillingham behind them would be as good as anything else in the tournament. 

[Saint Billy]

27 minutes ago, saintant said:

Southgate is clearly a negative, risk averse man. With all the elite footballers at his disposal rather than getting them playing on the front foot and attacking in numbers he'd rather go for the safe option. It's clear he's told the team that, when the opponents have the ball, they must immediately drop 20 yards back to protect our goal because, God forbid, we let one in.  This means that if we get the ball back we are deep in our own half and every attempt at mounting an attack must start from there. It is a crazy tactic and one which should be saved for the countries with lesser talent available. The players must hate playing this way with the handbrake on and watching it is akin to sticking pins in your eye. How can players we watch every week demonstrating their outstanding talent be reduced to looking like none of them have ever seen a football and are gamely trying to make even a single accurate pass? It's a complete shit show and the blame rests with Southgate.

Spot on.

[Saint Billy]

I imagine Man U fans will be shitting themselves at the possibility of Southgate managing them lol.

[skintsaint]