Armando Broja

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

"Advanced central position" what are you on? He played as a 10, obviously. JWP played further back making it more a 4231 than a 4141 (although probably wouldn't have if we hadn't played so poorly so likely wasn't the plan). The point is, Smallbone clearly wasn't playing as a striker, so saying he is playing ahead of Adam Armstrong is more ridiculous than when you said we'd finish dead bottom of the league.

For the sake of a never ending argument about what formation we did or didn’t play, even though the graph does show he and Che were practically side by side, let’s just say that he’s 4th choice, still behind….. Shane fucking Long. 
 

FWIW, I don’t think Armstrong deserves a chance, he’s been garbage pretty much every time I’ve seen him play. 

[Billy the Kidd]

[benjii]

Smallbone played as a forward in our usual 4222. Them's the facts.

Also, he has a higher ceiling than Neymar.

[S-Clarke]

This is all a bit tedious isn't it.

Broja is clearly a good player, he's a young player going through a tough patch of form. It happens and will always happen. I like to think Saints fans are pretty well adapt at spotting 'potential higher level players' and my opinion is that Broja, along with Tino, are 'potential higher level players'. They will finish their careers at a higher level than Southampton, whereas Adams and Armstrong will probably still be drifting around the same sort of level for most of their careers.

Happy to bump this thread in 5 or 6 years to see what's what.

[TWar]

9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is all a bit tedious isn't it.

Broja is clearly a good player, he's a young player going through a tough patch of form. It happens and will always happen. I like to think Saints fans are pretty well adapt at spotting 'potential higher level players' and my opinion is that Broja, along with Tino, are 'potential higher level players'. They will finish their careers at a higher level than Southampton, whereas Adams and Armstrong will probably still be drifting around the same sort of level for most of their careers.

Happy to bump this thread in 5 or 6 years to see what's what.

Tough patch of form is generous, he has one league goal in 2022 and has been in bad form now for longer than he was in good form. I don't think saints fans are very good at spotting young talent at all, I remember the clamour a couple of seasons ago to play Obafemi over Adams and to start Sims and Hesketh over Redmond, Boufal etc. We just have to look at where they are now.

We massively overhype young players as guarenteed to improve. Some do, some don't. I hope Broja does as 6 goals in 25 league appearances is nowhere near worth the money it would cost to get him in permanently if rumours are to be believed.

[SaintsLoyal]

You need service and hes not getting it in recent games.

[nta786]

16 minutes ago, TWar said:

Tough patch of form is generous, he has one league goal in 2022 and has been in bad form now for longer than he was in good form. I don't think saints fans are very good at spotting young talent at all, I remember the clamour a couple of seasons ago to play Obafemi over Adams and to start Sims and Hesketh over Redmond, Boufal etc. We just have to look at where they are now.

We massively overhype young players as guarenteed to improve. Some do, some don't. I hope Broja does as 6 goals in 25 league appearances is nowhere near worth the money it would cost to get him in permanently if rumours are to be believed.

The clamour only happens though when we go on a terrible streak and fans aren’t thinking rationally - see Jankewitz too. 
 

Keeping it basic - win 2 games and the mantra is “don’t change a winning team”, lose 2 games and then it’s suddenly “play the kids”.

and I’m not shy to admit that’s also me sometimes!  

[Dman]

6 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

You need service and hes not getting it in recent games.

I think it’s a combination of that and the fact we’ve played ‘weaker’ teams who naturally sit a little deeper. And also are afraid of giving him space to run in to. 
 

just like Che is really good with his back to goal, Broja is really, really good facing the goal. That’s partially why they work well together. 
 

If / when he plays for a better team, he’ll get a ton more chances and will likely score a ton more. Hes a big lad and can (and will need to) learn to play with his back to goal to step up to the next level. 

[TWar]

Just now, nta786 said:

The clamour only happens though when we go on a terrible streak and fans aren’t thinking rationally - see Jankewitz too. 
 

Keeping it basic - win 2 games and the mantra is “don’t change a winning team”, lose 2 games and then it’s suddenly “play the kids”.

and I’m not shy to admit that’s also me sometimes!  

Jankewitz is another great example. I remember some of the same people treating Broja like he is above criticism whining that Ralph was an idiot for not starting Jankewitz, a player who has spent his 2022 on the bench for St Gallen.

[Dman]

15 minutes ago, TWar said:

Jankewitz is another great example. I remember some of the same people treating Broja like he is above criticism whining that Ralph was an idiot for not starting Jankewitz, a player who has spent his 2022 on the bench for St Gallen.

Regarding Jankewitz, the only time anyone was really asking for him to start was at a point where we had so many injuries, that we were playing Jack Stephens in CM ffs. He was pretty highly rated at youth level and at a point where we were desperate, it made sense to those who didn’t see him day in day out, that surely it’s worth a go. 

It’s kind of the same now for Armstrong, despite the fact every time he’s played, he’s looked bang average and Ralph (who see’s him every day in training) clearly doesn’t trust or rate him, people are still calling for him to start. 
 

No one is saying Broja is above criticism at all. Many have rightly said, he’s young and will go through spells of form some good, some bad. 
 

Most, are calling you out because it’s absolutely clear that you made your bed at the start of the season by a ridiculous statement saying Armstrong had more potential than him, and you’ve been on an irrational spree of calling him Out and putting him down at every opportunity since. Just to try and prove you are right. 
 

Just like you did when you claimed we had a better squad than Villa and that Eddie Howe is a load of shit. To the point where the other day you were claiming that Chris wood, is better than Danny Ings, Broja and Watkins 😂

Edited 13 March, 2022 by Dman

[beatlesaint]

39 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

You need service and hes not getting it in recent games.

He sure as hell didn’t get any today

[Whitey Grandad]

14 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

He sure as hell didn’t get any today

Not in the first half he didn’t.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

 has been in bad form now for longer than he was in good form.

Utter drivel.

 

 

Edited 13 March, 2022 by Chez

[pimpin4rizeal]

I think broja will be an amazing player and would absolutely love us to sign him permanently.

but for how things are at the moment I think if we don’t think we can persuade him or Chelsea into a permanent deal and with out current league position it might be better to try and get Adam Armstrong firing instead of giving broja a place every week, Armstrong will be here next season and it’s looking like broja will not. I think Armstrong could still come good he’s got fast acceleration and can finish the goal he scored va Everton early in the season was a glimpse of what he could do with the right service if we gave him a run of games now we could find out how our situation of life without broja will be in the summer., if AA can show some form now it would be a lot less worrying 

[Chez]

7 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

I think broja will be an amazing player and would absolutely love us to sign him permanently.

but for how things are at the moment I think if we don’t think we can persuade him or Chelsea into a permanent deal and with out current league position it might be better to try and get Adam Armstrong firing instead of giving broja a place every week, Armstrong will be here next season and it’s looking like broja will not. I think Armstrong could still come good he’s got fast acceleration and can finish the goal he scored va Everton early in the season was a glimpse of what he could do with the right service if we gave him a run of games now we could find out how our situation of life without broja will be in the summer., if AA can show some form now it would be a lot less worrying 

worry about next season in the summer. AA will have plenty of opportunities both in training and preseason to get back in the groove.

 

[HKsaint]

I agree to give AA more chances now as it would do less harm to us if it could not work out, and we could then find another one during the summer. 

[Whitey Grandad]

7 hours ago, HKsaint said:

I agree to give AA more chances now as it would do less harm to us if it could not work out, and we could then find another one during the summer. 

Agreed. So what was the thinking behind starting with Smallbone on Sunday?

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Agreed. So what was the thinking behind starting with Smallbone on Sunday?

I imagine he's played well in training and impressed Ralph

[TWar]

28 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Agreed. So what was the thinking behind starting with Smallbone on Sunday?

I think the idea was Watford have a decent midfield but poor defence so we can get away with an extra body deeper and one fewer strikers (similar to how we dealt with west ham in the league). Problem was our def made a massive error early on meaning we had to press up and chase the game and they could just ping it long and bypass the midfield entirely. An annoyingly effective strategy given neither Bednarek or Salisu are very good in the air.

We changed it at half time and were right to but unfortunately a number of our forwards are out of form so we couldn't break them down.

Edited 16 March, 2022 by TWar

[Sarisbury Saint]

3 hours ago, TWar said:

I think the idea was Watford have a decent midfield but poor defence so we can get away with an extra body deeper and one fewer strikers (similar to how we dealt with west ham in the league). Problem was our def made a massive error early on meaning we had to press up and chase the game and they could just ping it long and bypass the midfield entirely. An annoyingly effective strategy given neither Bednarek or Salisu are very good in the air.

We changed it at half time and were right to but unfortunately a number of our forwards are out of form so we couldn't break them down.

And when we did change it our midfield didn’t know how to unlock their defence. Sideways backwards zzzz.

Quite clearly Watford were always going to try long balls over the top and catch us on the break. This is a tactic that works well for us against better opposition, something Broja thrives on.

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

And when we did change it our midfield didn’t know how to unlock their defence. Sideways backwards zzzz.

Quite clearly Watford were always going to try long balls over the top and catch us on the break. This is a tactic that works well for us against better opposition, something Broja thrives on.

Yes it was definitely ineffective. I think Ralph probably felt pressured to do something different given his strategy hadn't worked in the last two. It may have been better if we hadn't conceded a stupid goal so early but who knows.

[Toadhall Saint]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

Yes it was definitely ineffective. I think Ralph probably felt pressured to do something different given his strategy hadn't worked in the last two. It may have been better if we hadn't conceded a stupid goal so early but who knows.

Or had scored earlier still.

[Roo1976]

On 13/03/2022 at 17:30, SaintsLoyal said:

You need service and hes not getting it in recent games.

We play far too conservatively and ponderously slow ATM . But there is also a need for players to move players around and not be too static and rigid.

[Dman]

Just bumping this so @TWar can call out Armstrong for being a pile of shite, as he would have done for Broja… 

The floor is yours fella 👍🏻

[The Kraken]

48 minutes ago, Dman said:

Just bumping this so @TWar can call out Armstrong for being a pile of shite, as he would have done for Broja… 

The floor is yours fella 👍🏻

He made some good moves and got into some good positions. But his shooting was utterly atrocious, he just he seemed to mis-hit absolutely everything.

[Dman]

Just now, The Kraken said:

He made some good moves and got into some good positions. But his shooting was utterly atrocious, he just he seemed to mis-hit absolutely everything.

Had it not been for the misses, I wouldn’t have known he was on the pitch in the first half. 

[S-Clarke]

Armstrong had some good movement to be fair, but he does seem very limited technically. It's like he panics whenever he gets a chance, I don't know if that's him or if he's nervous. He'll get a handful of goals a year at this level in a good season, but he's not much cop all told. 

I'd have started Broja as I think him offering power on the break would have given us more, he did struggle to get into the rhythm as a sub.

Edited 20 March, 2022 by S-Clarke

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

Just bumping this so @TWar can call out Armstrong for being a pile of shite, as he would have done for Broja… 

The floor is yours fella 👍🏻

Are you taking the piss?

Armstrong was a "pile of shite" because he didn't score against the best team in world football? He only hit the post? He did a tonne more than Broja who I don't remember getting a touch. Armstrong had multiple chances and made good runs but couldn't finish, hitting the post once, Broja did nothing.

Neither were to blame though, we lost due to two silly mistakes from each of our CBs and then were overwhelmed by City's quality when chasing the game.

[Dman]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Are you taking the piss?

Armstrong was a "pile of shite" because he didn't score against the best team in world football? He only hit the post? He did a tonne more than Broja who I don't remember getting a touch. Armstrong had multiple chances and made good runs but couldn't finish, hitting the post once, Broja did nothing.

Neither were to blame though, we lost due to two silly mistakes from each of our CBs and then were overwhelmed by City's quality when chasing the game.

Other than Broja coming on at a point where the game had completely changed, I do agree that Broja was pretty non existent. He came on too late. 
 

ultimately though, had he been on the end of the chances Armstrong had, I suspect the outcome would have been different. 
 

he only hit the post because he scuffed him shot (as with all other chances he had), had he struck that cleanly, we’d have been 1-0 up rather than 1-0 Down. Big mistake. 

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Dman said:

Other than Broja coming on at a point where the game had completely changed, I do agree that Broja was pretty non existent. He came on too late. 
 

ultimately though, had he been on the end of the chances Armstrong had, I suspect the outcome would have been different. 
 

he only hit the post because he scuffed him shot (as with all other chances he had), had he struck that cleanly, we’d have been 1-0 up rather than 1-0 Down. Big mistake. 

Ofcourse, because he hasn't missed an absolute tonne chances in the last few months...

I don't care if Armstrong "scuffed it" he guided it into the far post and it nearly worked. It was unlucky to have hit the post. Adams had a far worse miss and Broja didn't get a chance to miss because he was completely anonymous and didn't make runs anywhere near the quality Armstrong made when he was getting these chances.

We were objectively much less dangerous going forward after Long and Armstrong came off and Che and Broja came on, surely you noticed that.

Edited 20 March, 2022 by TWar

[Dman]

Just now, TWar said:

Ofcourse, because he hasn't missed an absolute tonne chances in the last few months...

I don't care if he "scuffed it" he guided it into the far post and it nearly worked. It was unlucky to have hit the post. Adams had a far worse miss and Broja didn't get a chance to miss because he was completely anonymous and didn't make runs anywhere near the quality Armstrong made when he was getting these chances.

As I said; the game at that point had changed. City were a lot more compact and it was tough for both strikers. 
 

Its Pointless making good runs if you’ve got 0 ability to put them away amd scuff every shot you have. If you seriously reckon that was intentional for him to scuff it and guide it on to the post, then clearly you’re absolutely deluded. 
 

Despite being on the pitch for 1/4 of the time, he actually only made 1 less pass; as seen below. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, Broja didn’t offer a great deal, but neither did Armstrong. So call him out rather than being hypocritical. But you won’t, as that doesn’t suit your agenda. 
 

 

 

[The Kraken]

Shots 4, shots on target 0, sums his game up.

[TWar]

I'd far rather a striker actually get in positions and get shots away and get unlucky hitting the post than one who does sweet fuck all.

And I'm not calling out either of them as City are the best team in the world so there is no shame in failing to score against them, plus the players to blame for the loss were not either of them.

[Dr Who?]

All strikers have a patch where they cannot find the net. He will bang one in soon and go on another good run, which will hopefully be the same time we do the same. I still have a glance down the table, with Watford, Everton and Leeds winning (the latter winning 2). Just one more win and I think we will be there. 

[Dman]

7 minutes ago, TWar said:

I'd far rather a striker actually get in positions and get shots away and get unlucky hitting the post than one who does sweet fuck all.

And I'm not calling out either of them as City are the best team in the world so there is no shame in failing to score against them, plus the players to blame for the loss were not either of them.

Each to their own. I’d much rather a player who given those chances actually has the ability to stick it away. 
 

I don’t know why you keep saying he was unlucky. It’s was a dreadful attempt, that’s the only reason it hit the post because it was struck soo badly. 

[Sarisbury Saint]

27 minutes ago, TWar said:

Ofcourse, because he hasn't missed an absolute tonne chances in the last few months...

I don't care if Armstrong "scuffed it" he guided it into the far post and it nearly worked. It was unlucky to have hit the post. Adams had a far worse miss and Broja didn't get a chance to miss because he was completely anonymous and didn't make runs anywhere near the quality Armstrong made when he was getting these chances.

We were objectively much less dangerous going forward after Long and Armstrong came off and Che and Broja came on, surely you noticed that.

Your last paragraph I agree with, but Armstrong really needs to make the goalie work more, at least get it on target.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Each to their own. I’d much rather a player who given those chances actually has the ability to stick it away. 
 

I don’t know why you keep saying he was unlucky. It’s was a dreadful attempt, that’s the only reason it hit the post because it was struck soo badly. 

Broja very often doesn't stick them away though, we've seen that multiple times in his last 10 or so games.

We just can't point to any of his chances though as he barely saw the opposition box. Yes he was plaing from 1 goal down but so were the other forwards for most of the first half and we looked a tonne more threatening.

[stevy777_x]

26 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Shots 4, shots on target 0, sums his game up.

And apparently AA is supposed to be the best finisher at the club.

Total gash as always

[wild-saint]

13 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

And apparently AA is supposed to be the best finisher at the club.

Total gash as always

I thought he did ok overall bar the confidence in his finishing. This is no surprise with his lack of game time and and confidence at the moment. 

Broja clearly wont be with us next season so I would start him every game from now onwards to try and help build him up for the new season.

[Whitey Grandad]

49 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

I thought he did ok overall bar the confidence in his finishing. This is no surprise with his lack of game time and and confidence at the moment. 

Broja clearly wont be with us next season so I would start him every game from now onwards to try and help build him up for the new season.

I don’t quite understand your point about Broja. Why should we build him up for next season?

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I don’t quite understand your point about Broja. Why should we build him up for next season?

I think the "him" in this context means Adam Armstrong.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

I think the "him" in this context means Adam Armstrong.

Ah. That makes more sense.

[The Left Back]

On 21/03/2022 at 07:47, wild-saint said:

I thought he did ok overall bar the confidence in his finishing. This is no surprise with his lack of game time and and confidence at the moment. 

Broja clearly wont be with us next season so I would start him every game from now onwards to try and help build him up for the new season.

Agree with this, assuming Broja won't be with us next season.

I'm hoping there's work going on already in the background with Broja, his agent and Chelsea to determine whether he is likely to be with us next year.  If he's not, or it's unlikely at least, I'd start Armstrong and Adams for every pretty much game from now on.   Our priority has to be to trying and get AA firing and to help him and Che develop a partnership.  This will help us know what nature of player we will need to replace Broja - i.e. a starter or a squad member.

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, The Left Back said:

Agree with this, assuming Broja won't be with us next season.

I'm hoping there's work going on already in the background with Broja, his agent and Chelsea to determine whether he is likely to be with us next year.  If he's not, or it's unlikely at least, I'd start Armstrong and Adams for every pretty much game from now on.   Our priority has to be to trying and get AA firing and to help him and Che develop a partnership.  This will help us know what nature of player we will need to replace Broja - i.e. a starter or a squad member.

No one had heard of Broja or Livermento this time last year, now they are considered two rising stars. If we dont get Broja then i'm sure our socuting team already eyeing the next one we can bring in. We seem to be doing a little bit better than the days of Carillo and Hoedt.

[Sarisbury Saint]

We do seem to look better when we have a big centre forward ( Pelle, Lambert, Broja) so hopefully we will follow suit.

[Dark Munster]

Wow, he's been anonymous (to put it politely) for months now. Mixed feelings about this, if he had remained red hot like he was at the beginning then either Chelsea would want him back for next season, or a minted club like Newcastle would out bid us. I wonder if Ralph has deliberately set the team up (with him out wide) to make less of an impact to improve our chances of buying him, or is it just that he (Broja) couldn't be arsed. Probably the latter, but I'm not sure .... 

[Whitey Grandad]

Based on his last ten games or so I would be looking elsewhere for next season.

[Dman]

His drop off in form reminds me a bit of Ings, towards the back end of last season, where he knew he wasn’t staying and was going through the motions and to a degree. I also think that teams have highlighted him as a key threat and know how to prevent the service to him. His goals have dried up, but so have Adams / the rest of the squad. 

He’s young, got bags of natural talent and has proven he can do it at this level but he’s clearly lost motivation, which isn’t a great sign.

I hope for his sake he’ll learn and I’ve no doubt he will as his lack of effort wouldn’t be tolerated at any other clubs. 

We don’t and won’t know what goes on behind the scenes, but Ralph continues to pick him (which probably says more about the other 3 strikers we have), but I’d agree, for the last month performances haven’t been good enough. 
 

If he’s committed to the club and wants to stay here, then I think we should snap him up ASAP. If he isn’t and is half hearted, like it seems, then let him move on. 
 

Ive no doubt he’ll be scoring goals in the premier league wherever he is next season though. 

[Sarisbury Saint]

13 minutes ago, Dman said:

His drop off in form reminds me a bit of Ings, towards the back end of last season, where he knew he wasn’t staying and was going through the motions and to a degree. I also think that teams have highlighted him as a key threat and know how to prevent the service to him. His goals have dried up, but so have Adams / the rest of the squad. 

He’s young, got bags of natural talent and has proven he can do it at this level but he’s clearly lost motivation, which isn’t a great sign.

I hope for his sake he’ll learn and I’ve no doubt he will as his lack of effort wouldn’t be tolerated at any other clubs. 

We don’t and won’t know what goes on behind the scenes, but Ralph continues to pick him (which probably says more about the other 3 strikers we have), but I’d agree, for the last month performances haven’t been good enough. 
 

If he’s committed to the club and wants to stay here, then I think we should snap him up ASAP. If he isn’t and is half hearted, like it seems, then let him move on. 
 

Ive no doubt he’ll be scoring goals in the premier league wherever he is next season though. 

Under a better manager I think he’ll do well.

[Dman]

3 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Under a better manager I think he’ll do well.

Agreed.