Armando Broja

[TWar]

32 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

So you want to have a record purchase that cannot link play or pass? Hmmmmm

Yeah. His shooting and dribbling are that good. Also he's only 20, Ralph can improve him.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

I think this "backed into a corner" thing takes opinions on a football forum way too seriously. If I have a negative view and it's proven wrong then I am happy.

I think some people put being right on the forum over the team winning. It's weird.

Ha, you take yourself very seriously pal a proper know it all. you were negative about Broja from the start this has carried on through the season despite him doing great. 

Not really sure what point you’re making with your second statement. The team are winning, We’re on a great run. If they weren’t and a Broja was doing shite with People still backing him then you might have a point, they aren’t and he isn’t. 

[The Cat]

2 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Look I appreciate you are never wrong but it is ok to be. Broja is probably the most outstanding talent I have seen at his age since the first time I saw gascoigne step out as (I think) an 18 year old at the dell for Newcastle. He scares the shit out of defenders  - I mean if you were a CB how would you play him? Get close? Lay off? Either way he has the power to hold you off or go past you like you are a cart horse. Over 5 to ten yards his acceleration is phenomenal. He won’t score with every shot - no CF in history has. Should he have more assists ? Potentially but most great goal scores when asked pas or shoot they say shoot every time and that’s what made them great. 

More of a talent than 16 year old Wayne Rooney? More of a talent than Gareth Bale when he first put on the red & white? Better than a young Michael Owen who won the Golden Boot in his first top flight season and later the Ballon d'Or?

Broja is obviously good but there's nothing wrong with pointing out he is on a dip in form. All players have them. 

[qwertyell]

I think we're in a slightly curious situation where our best two strikers - Broja and Adams - aren't necessarily our best striking partnership.

Broja doesn't seem to gel as well with Adams as he does with Redmond. And Adams has much better natural chemistry with Adam Armstrong.

Broja and Adams are doing fine individually, but their combination play needs a lot of work. Primarily, I'd say that comes down to Broja's inexperience: not making the right runs off the ball, or holding onto it too long with his head down.

But the only way it's going to get better is to keep banging away at it. I haven't checked, but I'd guess that they've only started together around 10 times. Possibly less.

[TWar]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Ha, you take yourself very seriously pal a proper know it all. you were negative about Broja from the start this has carried on through the season despite him doing great. 

Not really sure what point you’re making with your second statement. The team are winning, We’re on a great run. If they weren’t and a Broja was doing shite with People still backing him then you might have a point, they aren’t and he isn’t. 

Disagreeing with you doesn't make me a "know it all", nor does chatting about statistics. And I didn't say he was shit, I never have. I thought Armstrong was more promising coming in and admittedly he didn't work out how I had hoped, but Broja has done well and I'm over the moon  about it. He is going through a bit of a quieter period and there is nothing wrong with pointing that out. Especially whilst pointing out the others who have been killing it like JWP, KWP, romeu and Adams.

My second statement more regards people who disliked Ralph and JWP and seem actively unhappy that they are both smashing it, to the point they don't post nearly as much anymore. I was low on Broja, but when he started doing well I was never anything but really happy about it.

Edited 26 February, 2022 by TWar

[TWar]

2 hours ago, The Cat said:

More of a talent than 16 year old Wayne Rooney? More of a talent than Gareth Bale when he first put on the red & white? Better than a young Michael Owen who won the Golden Boot in his first top flight season and later the Ballon d'Or?

Broja is obviously good but there's nothing wrong with pointing out he is on a dip in form. All players have them. 

Rooney was certainly who came to my mind. Also recent players like Foden and Alexander-Arnold who have been phenomenal at times.

[Chez]

10 hours ago, TWar said:

I move around on him tbh. My initial criticism is he doesn't create much and contribute to our attack other than scoring, not great hold up play or vision etc. He was just a good finisher.

He then added proactive running and pressing to his game alongside being a superb finisher, so I relented and admitted he was very good option for us.

The issue is now he is on a bit of poor form (by his early standards) and hasn't scored in a few games it becomes harder to overlook those initial faults of being pretty poor at passing, hold up play, and situational awareness. His inability to find unmarked teammates in the box has cost us atleast a couple of goals in the last few games.

I'm still positive on him and if we announced a £25m deal for him tomorrow I'd be very happy, I just don't think he is really at a level to play for a team like Arsenal or Chelsea as yet, as some suggested a few weeks back.

What are you on about? His hold up play is superb. He has lots of strength and great touch to go with it. The ball sticks more often than not.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

On 17/02/2022 at 05:00, Saint Keef said:

Yeah, let's just assume he was allowed to play for us against Chelsea in the FA Cup Semi Final....or indeed the Final, the pressure on him NOT to score would perhaps be too great. Can you imagine it if he scored the winner for us in the Final and the following week had to return to Chelsea as his loan period was over.  "Ah welcome back Armanda, Mr Abramovich would like to see you in his office". Ain't gonna happen.

Agree, it wouldn’t happen. Not at the current set up anyway 😂

[verlaine1979]

I don't think it's a coincidence that we seem to have a lot more space and time on the ball with defenses stepping out less against us now that the entire world knows we have a striker who will absolutely murder you for pace given five yards to run into.

[Dan Johnson]

20 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

I don't think it's a coincidence that we seem to have a lot more space and time on the ball with defenses stepping out less against us now that the entire world knows we have a striker who will absolutely murder you for pace given five yards to run into.

Yep.

A players talent and what they contribute to the TEAM performance isn’t always as simple as highlighting what they’ve contributed as an individual in the form of stats

Brojas assets, his pace and strength are allowing Armstrong and Elyonoussi to exploit the oppositions attempts to deal with him. Watch how wide Broja will pull players leaving space in the middle for midfielders to run into and how fast teams drop back out of possession to allow us to flood forward and break quickly. 

it’s no surprise Armstrong and Elyonoussi have been the match winners the last few games. 
 

[Professor]

I find it encouraging to see the criticism of Broja.  At his age he shouldn't be expected to be the finished article.  If there wasn't room for improvement, that would be more worrying.  I'm sure the faults in his play that are discussed on here are also pointed out by the coaches.  In my opinion, it needs to be drilled into him that football is a team game.  Goals scored by other players are just as valuable as goals he scores. More so rreally because the rest of the team will score more goals collectivly, than he will as an individual.The Norwich match was another example of where chances weren't created because instead of laying off to a team-mate, he took a futile shot at a sea of players blocking the way.  But he won't improve by being dropped.  He should be in the side as often as possible abut then be sat down to have his performance analysed.

[TWar]

11 hours ago, Chez said:

What are you on about? His hold up play is superb. He has lots of strength and great touch to go with it. The ball sticks more often than not.

Being good at hold up play is more than just being strong and having a good touch, you need to be good with your back to goal. You need to be able to bring others into the game after receiving and holding the ball. You need to draw pressure and then turn under pressure to continue the attack. I haven't seen him be particularly good at those aspects. Broja seems much more comfortable running on to balls. Or receiving it in quickly running at defences or getting his shot away.

Che on the other hand has superb hold up play.

[WALK DMC]

52 minutes ago, TWar said:

Being good at hold up play is more than just being strong and having a good touch, you need to be good with your back to goal. You need to be able to bring others into the game after receiving and holding the ball. You need to draw pressure and then turn under pressure to continue the attack. I haven't seen him be particularly good at those aspects. Broja seems much more comfortable running on to balls. Or receiving it in quickly running at defences or getting his shot away.

Che on the other hand has superb hold up play.

There was an interesting article from a Chelsea perspective last week. I felt it was reasonably balanced and informative. 

Keep or sell: Evaluating Armando Broja’s future at Chelsea (theprideoflondon.com)

I cannot vouch for the quality or accuracy of the data or the author but amongst the assessment of his strengths there was also an interesting statement:   " the Albanian international finds himself in the bottom half of the league in touches in the penalty area and he has not exactly shown an adeptness when competing in aerial duels. Combine these points with the fact that he gets dispossessed a whopping 3.30 times per 90 (worse than 96 percent of the league)"

 

This does seem to back up some of the earlier messages on Broja's inability to hold up the ball. 

If Chelsea asked for £25m, I'd bite their hand off for his signature, but some interest observations from the article and something for him to work on in the coming years, whoever he is playing for. 

[Dellman]

3 hours ago, TWar said:

Being good at hold up play is more than just being strong and having a good touch, you need to be good with your back to goal. You need to be able to bring others into the game after receiving and holding the ball. You need to draw pressure and then turn under pressure to continue the attack. I haven't seen him be particularly good at those aspects. Broja seems much more comfortable running on to balls. Or receiving it in quickly running at defences or getting his shot away.

Che on the other hand has superb hold up play.

I think we all know Broja is a work in progress, in fact he is not much more than a beginner, it is very early days. We can also see terrific potential and Ralph is as likely as anyone to polish the rough edges and that's what he needs and we need, I hope we are not doing it all, just for Chelsea's benefit. 

[TWar]

Just now, Dellman said:

I think we all know Broja is a work in progress, in fact he is not much more than a beginner, it is very early days. We can also see terrific potential and Ralph is as likely as anyone to polish the rough edges and that's what he needs and we need, I hope we are not doing it all, just for Chelsea's benefit. 

I really hope Broja and Chelsea realise that under Ralph he is a lot more likely to get great than rotting on the Chelsea bench and do the best thing for all parties and sell him to us for a good fee and a buyback.

[Chez]

7 hours ago, TWar said:

Being good at hold up play is more than just being strong and having a good touch, you need to be good with your back to goal. You need to be able to bring others into the game after receiving and holding the ball. You need to draw pressure and then turn under pressure to continue the attack.

Perfect description of what Broja does for us. I'm amazed you don't see that. Game is about opinions though I suppose. 

[The Left Back]

15 hours ago, Dan Johnson said:

Yep.

A players talent and what they contribute to the TEAM performance isn’t always as simple as highlighting what they’ve contributed as an individual in the form of stats

Brojas assets, his pace and strength are allowing Armstrong and Elyonoussi to exploit the oppositions attempts to deal with him. Watch how wide Broja will pull players leaving space in the middle for midfielders to run into and how fast teams drop back out of possession to allow us to flood forward and break quickly. 

it’s no surprise Armstrong and Elyonoussi have been the match winners the last few games. 
 

In the Norwich game its was noticeable how far apart the strikers played.  I haven't noticed it in previous games but in this one they split apart quite a lot.  Not only did this allow Moi and Stu more space to come inside, it was often the catalyst for triangles in the corners between Moi and KWP, with one of the strikers (mostly Broja) and, down the other side Tino, Stu and one of the strikers  (mostly Adams).  This might have been going on for a few games but I only really noticed it against Norwich.  And there was so much fluidity in it that if JWP or Oriol joined the triangle then Stu/moi would back out and cover.

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, Chez said:

Perfect description of what Broja does for us. I'm amazed you don't see that. Game is about opinions though I suppose. 

Spreadsheets only tell you so much Chez 

[Turkish]

Tammy Abraham being linked with a move back to Chelsea in the summer, could be good for us with Broja

[Toussaint]

On 26/02/2022 at 14:51, qwertyell said:

Broja doesn't seem to gel as well with Adams as he does with Redmond. And Adams has much better natural chemistry with Adam Armstrong.

In my word association head I think Redmond is more synonymous with treacle than gel.

[TWar]

Wasn't there an article in January that said we would begin negotiating when safe from relegation? Now we are like 500-1 to go down I wonder if we will try and get a deal done before the summer window opens.

[Dellman]

11 hours ago, Toussaint said:

In my word association head I think Redmond is more synonymous with treacle than gel.

Another cheap joke at Redmond's expense, sad, he's a Saint

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Wasn't there an article in January that said we would begin negotiating when safe from relegation? Now we are like 500-1 to go down I wonder if we will try and get a deal done before the summer window opens.

We aren't at 40 points yet sunshine

[TWar]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

We aren't at 40 points yet sunshine

40 points hasn't been neccessary for safety since 2003. Our current point total would keep us up every year since 2016 and we still have 12 games to go. I think we'll be fine...

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

40 points hasn't been neccessary for safety since 2003. Our current point total would keep us up every year since 2016 and we still have 12 games to go. I think we'll be fine...

Complacency is the brother of all fuck ups 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Complacency is the brother of all fuck ups 

It's the mother of all fuck ups, stupid... 

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

It's the mother of all fuck ups, stupid... 

bother mother any old sucker. They’re still fucking points and we still need to fucking get them

[Whitey Grandad]

59 minutes ago, egg said:

It's the mother of all fuck ups, stupid... 

“Under Siege 2”

49 minutes ago, Turkish said:

bother mother any old sucker. They’re still fucking points and we still need to fucking get them

“Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels”

Nice allusion

[maysie]

On 27/02/2022 at 16:07, The Left Back said:

In the Norwich game its was noticeable how far apart the strikers played.  I haven't noticed it in previous games but in this one they split apart quite a lot.  Not only did this allow Moi and Stu more space to come inside, it was often the catalyst for triangles in the corners between Moi and KWP, with one of the strikers (mostly Broja) and, down the other side Tino, Stu and one of the strikers  (mostly Adams).  This might have been going on for a few games but I only really noticed it against Norwich.  And there was so much fluidity in it that if JWP or Oriol joined the triangle then Stu/moi would back out and cover.

I think I remember when Ralph first joined that this was his tactics at Leipzig. Playing with two wide strikers and the number 10s coming more central to exploit the gaps and the fullbacks providing the overlapping width.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

bother mother any old sucker. They’re still fucking points and we still need to fucking get them

Good lad 👍

[Jack]

Evening Standard reporting that Chelsea would let Broja (and the other Tino) go in the summer to fund other business. Maybe we need to encourage him to play shit for the rest of the season to keep the cost down 

[Dusic]

Again, if Chelsea decide to sell Broja they are absolutely mental.

Top player who has potential to be a superstar.

What a loan signing, considering few of us had even heard of him.

Edited 2 March, 2022 by Dusic

[Sheaf Saint]

On 01/03/2022 at 18:23, Jack said:

Maybe we need to encourage him to play shit for the rest of the season to keep the cost down 

Well he Ballsed that up tonight didn't he!

[Toadhall Saint]

Top top player now god only knows what he will be like in 2 - 3 years time if he keeps improving. Frightening really for one so young.

[S-Clarke]

It'll be interesting to see how Chelsea play the summer, they won't be sold by then in my opinion so they clearly won't have a pot to piss in during the window.

So, do they sell the players who have value (Broja, the other Tino, Gallagher etc) or do they bring them back and incorporate them into the squad? My hunch is that they'll sell the 'sellable' ones to try and raise some funds. I think we'll be out priced though on Broja though, he'll go for £40m ish and that's beyond us.

Edited 2 March, 2022 by S-Clarke

[sfc4prem]

I've already given up hope of keeping Armando. Purchasing a player of his quality is out of our price range and simply doesn't fit in with our approach.

We're the ones that scout and bring in unproven/unfulfilled young talent. Broja is now a proven talent of excellent capacity and potential.

Enjoy him while we have him, but don't get too attached!

[Saint_clark]

Telling everyone I know that this lad is going to be world class, destined for the very top.

[ErwinK1961]

I hope the scouting team know whose next off the rank. 

[beatlesaint]

27 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Telling everyone I know that this lad is going to be world class, destined for the very top.

You wanted to drop him after the Norwich game

[wooley7]

I’m starting to think for a club who wants to buy low, sell high, £40m might be a good investment.

Two more years at Saints and who knows what he will be worth.

Even at that price he fits the clubs strategy and maybe the new owners can put up the cash. It’s the same type of signing, just at a higher level.

Edited 2 March, 2022 by wooley7

[austsaint]

5 minutes ago, wooley7 said:

I’m starting to think for a club who wants to buy low, sell high, £40m might be a good investment.

Two more years at Saints and who knows what he will be worth.

Even at that price he fits the clubs strategy and maybe the new owners can put up the cash. It’s the same type of signing, just at a higher level.

If ever there was a player the Club should push the boat out for, it's this lad.  40m might not be enough though - if he's put on the market.

[Golac's Iron Gonads]

I like the bloke, he's been good for us, but he is not going to be a 'top,top player' a lot of people are getting very carried away. I'd be disappointed if we paid more than 20 million for him. I'd take him at saints, but there is no way he's going to be leading the attack for a top 4 side in the future.

[niceandfriendly]

1 hour ago, Golac's Iron Gonads said:

I like the bloke, he's been good for us, but he is not going to be a 'top,top player' a lot of people are getting very carried away. I'd be disappointed if we paid more than 20 million for him. I'd take him at saints, but there is no way he's going to be leading the attack for a top 4 side in the future.

Very good. Hope Chelsea are reading this 

[Golac's Iron Gonads]

5 hours ago, niceandfriendly said:

Very good. Hope Chelsea are reading this 

No way Chelsea are a top 4 team next season 😉

[macca155]

We aren't keeping Broja, I've resigned myself to that now. I'm sure Chelsea will keep him now and offload some of their expensive talent.

Just need to enjoy him whilst we have him.

[SuperSAINT]

10 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I think we'll be out priced though on Broja though, he'll go for £40m ish and that's beyond us.

This is the safe bet.  Too many financial monsters in this league want a striker.

West ham / Everton / Arsenal / Newcastle  can all blow us out the water.

[once_bitterne]

8 hours ago, Golac's Iron Gonads said:

I like the bloke, he's been good for us, but he is not going to be a 'top,top player' a lot of people are getting very carried away. I'd be disappointed if we paid more than 20 million for him. I'd take him at saints, but there is no way he's going to be leading the attack for a top 4 side in the future.

He needs to kick on to be as good as Lukaku and Werner, yes?  Maybe he can one day aspire to be a clinical finisher like Marcus Rashford?  Or a player like Lacazette?

[Ldnsaint]

Ridiculous talent - no chance he'll be here next year. Enjoy him whilst we can! 

[miserableoldgit]

 

[Toadhall Saint]

13 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

 

Thanks for posting