Armando Broja

[Toadhall Saint]

36 minutes ago, Chez said:

That's my point. If you ain't great at teeing others up, just shoot. Be selfish.

Ask some of the great strikers what they  would have done. Pass or shoot? Everyone I’ve ever seen answer that question responds shoot.

[AlexLaw76]

I think he is good and is going to have a brilliant career.  However, far too soon to be in the Chelsea side.  At least another year starting most weeks is essential for him (ie, at Saints)

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I think he is good and is going to have a brilliant career.  However, far too soon to be in the Chelsea side.  At least another year starting most weeks is essential for him (ie, at Saints)

Allegedly That’s what his mum thinks

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Allegedly That’s what his mum thinks

Where did you hear that? Sounds the most realistic for all involved 

[wild-saint]

15 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Where did you hear that? Sounds the most realistic for all involved 

she made a comment about how important it was that he plays football and that the family will decide. not specifically mentioned saints but clearly they recognise the best option for his development is for him to be a starting player. As good as he is i dont think he is ready to be the lead striker for Chelsea as a few blanks / mistakes etc he will feel the pressure of their fans. Lets face it half of them now seem to think £100m lukaku is shit.

[Harry_SFC]

41 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

Well it’s  going to need to get better - because if it doesn’t he will just sit on the bench at Chelsea they won’t tolerate it.

You can see others in the team calling him on it with us - any idiot can run into the box at pace but it’s no bloody good to the team if it’s into a cul de sac with the only way out only being possible once in a while. So you bag 10 goals for yourself “look at me”  but if you got your head up and made the pass you would still have your 10 but the team could have 10-20 more.

Trouble is the lad is still a nipper, and a lot of people are talking about him and with all the noise in his ears he needs to learn.

Totally agree. If he went back to Chelsea tomorrow there is no way he would be in their side. His decision making is quite poor at the moment but no doubt that will improve with experience. Hence why I think they may sell him in the summer with a buy back clause, similar to Tammy Abraham. 

[Toadhall Saint]

4 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

she made a comment about how important it was that he plays football and that the family will decide. not specifically mentioned saints but clearly they recognise the best option for his development is for him to be a starting player. As good as he is i dont think he is ready to be the lead striker for Chelsea as a few blanks / mistakes etc he will feel the pressure of their fans. Lets face it half of them now seem to think £100m lukaku is shit.

@turkish the bit in bold is the same I heard.

[Uncle Albert]

I think he’s still quite naive with his decision making at times, no doubt this is a part of his game that’ll improve with time. Of course a good bit of naivety is sometimes good, but he needs to realise when laying it off is the better option.

[Whitey Grandad]

A tremendous prospect but needs to work on his awareness and is weak on his left foot.

[John B]

28 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

she made a comment about how important it was that he plays football and that the family will decide. not specifically mentioned saints but clearly they recognise the best option for his development is for him to be a starting player. As good as he is i dont think he is ready to be the lead striker for Chelsea as a few blanks / mistakes etc he will feel the pressure of their fans. Lets face it half of them now seem to think £100m lukaku is shit.

He shit because he hardly gets the ball 7 or 8 touches yesterday

[S-Clarke]

13 minutes ago, Uncle Albert said:

I think he’s still quite naive with his decision making at times, no doubt this is a part of his game that’ll improve with time. Of course a good bit of naivety is sometimes good, but he needs to realise when laying it off is the better option.

And this is why Saints is the best place for him at the moment. We allow him an environment to be a bit niave and to learn that side of his game as we don't expect to win things or win every week.

At Chelsea he'd be under a microscope, a couple of performances of the level he showed yesterday and he'd be getting hauled off and a 100m striker would take his place. He wouldn't have the time to develop there as many players have shown over the years, christ even Lukaku himself had to leave Chelsea to develop before they bought him back for stupid money.

That is seemingly their model. THey were forced to throw James, Mount etc into the side when they had an embargo and that's the only reason they developed. In normal circumstances that wouldn't have happened in my opinion.

As a current player, Callum Hudson-Odoi is a fine example of someone who needed to move to progress as he had a lot of natural talent. But he didn't and he's now stagnated and is at danger of never fulfilling his potential.

Edited 20 February, 2022 by S-Clarke

[Uncle Albert]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

And this is why Saints is the best place for him at the moment. We allow him an environment to be a bit niave and to learn that side of his game as we don't expect to win things or win every week.

At Chelsea he'd be under a microscope, a couple of performances of the level he showed yesterday and he'd be getting hauled off and a 100m striker would take his place. He wouldn't have the time to develop there as many players have shown over the years, christ even Lukaku himself had to leave Chelsea to develop before they bought him back for stupid money.

Totally agree.

[Charlie Wayman]

On the other hand he scares defenders witless when he is on the ball and never stops chasing against the ball. I'm sure the coaches are in his ear all week but having the maturity to think outside the box, look around and analyse best options as he is running with the ball will take a little time to develop. 

At the moment he is an exciting prospect but needs time to improve his all round game just as Che Adams and  Mohammed Elyounoussi have done.

Edited 20 February, 2022 by Charlie Wayman

[Dellman]

WE have a manager who is a coach and has improved those willing to learn. Some managers are coaches, others are just dealers--remember 'Arry'-- and leave coaching to others. Broja and others are on to a good thing here.

[LiberalCommunist]

I do hope Chelsea and Broja recognise the potential problems for his great return. 

This lad will not be happy with ten minute cameo's for half a season. He looked thoroughly hacked off yesterday when he came off, then had to watch an old man steal a bit of his goal scoring glory. He is nowhere near the finished article, and they will not put up with the rawness we are witnessing. (Not a dig, I really like the lad)

I really hope he makes a well thought out decision on his future. It would be awful to watch Chelsea kill off his desire, and ruin his development. 

[Chez]

I am not fussed one iota that he doesn't get his head up and pass square more often. I don't want a striker that passes the buck and looks to put it on plate for a team mate when the shot is on. Far too many chances are wasted by selfless players that don't get that square pass right.

Half the occasions yesterday when he perhaps could have passed may have looked easy from the stand, but when you have only a split second to make the decision, have to keep your eye on the ball and their are bodies everywhere, it's much harder. I'd much prefer he just kept it simple, take responsibility and shoot.   

Hope this apparent `weakness' in terms of lack of vision puts Chelsea off....but it won't because he offers pace, power, skill, hold up play, work rate and goals. What a brilliant set of attributes.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Although not at his best yesterday he still offers a physical presence and posed a threat to their defence. FF is kicking longer a lot more now which makes us less predictable,  and the partnership between him & Adams looks like it’s growing. 
 

It’s obvious that staying for another season will be better for his career, but unfortunately other considerations trump that in football. Promising that his family seem to want what’s best (according to some posters), but I’ll believe it when I see it. If managers hung around longer,  Tuchel would want him settled learning his trade elsewhere before returning  in 2 or 3 years a fully rounded top 6 player. However, he won’t give a shiny shite about anything other than next season. If that means giving The family a load of old pony about his place in the set up, he’ll do it. If he continues as he has been this season, he may become an option off the bench for them next. If that’s the case The family will probably decide that’s “best” for him. 

[Toadhall Saint]

48 minutes ago, Chez said:

I am not fussed one iota that he doesn't get his head up and pass square more often. I don't want a striker that passes the buck and looks to put it on plate for a team mate when the shot is on. Far too many chances are wasted by selfless players that don't get that square pass right.

Half the occasions yesterday when he perhaps could have passed may have looked easy from the stand, but when you have only a split second to make the decision, have to keep your eye on the ball and their are bodies everywhere, it's much harder. I'd much prefer he just kept it simple, take responsibility and shoot.   

Hope this apparent `weakness' in terms of lack of vision puts Chelsea off....but it won't because he offers pace, power, skill, hold up play, work rate and goals. What a brilliant set of attributes.

Yesterday I thought he should have squared it on one occasion - today I’m not so sure - I’m with you chez hindsight is a great thing but when you have a split second to make a choice? Broja keeps it simple and that is always the best way.

[danjosaint]

3 hours ago, John B said:

He shit because he hardly gets the ball 7 or 8 touches yesterday

Surely that's a formation/patterns of play issue rather than just pinning it on lukaku 

[rooney]

He can learn by just watching Che lay it off for Stuey yesterday to score our first goal instead of trying to score himself. It wasn’t only yesterday that Broja was too greedy as the same happened against the Spuds.

[John B]

1 hour ago, danjosaint said:

Surely that's a formation/patterns of play issue rather than just pinning it on lukaku 

Yes they spend £90m and do not utilise him seems very strange as discussed by MOTD

[stevy777_x]

1 hour ago, rooney said:

He can learn by just watching Che lay it off for Stuey yesterday to score our first goal instead of trying to score himself. It wasn’t only yesterday that Broja was too greedy as the same happened against the Spuds.

Most strikers are greedy that is what makes them ruthless

[Sarisbury Saint]

4 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

I do hope Chelsea and Broja recognise the potential problems for his great return. 

This lad will not be happy with ten minute cameo's for half a season. He looked thoroughly hacked off yesterday when he came off, then had to watch an old man steal a bit of his goal scoring glory. He is nowhere near the finished article, and they will not put up with the rawness we are witnessing. (Not a dig, I really like the lad)

I really hope he makes a well thought out decision on his future. It would be awful to watch Chelsea kill off his desire, and ruin his development. 

Totally agree, he is raw, if he wasn’t he wouldn’t be here.

The potential of this guy is massive.

Better than Kane once he’s developed.

[Patches O Houlihan]

Is there a scenario where Broja returns to Chelsea and Timo Werner comes to Saints? He has a strong relationship with Hasenhuttl, and Ralph seems to know how to get the best out of him... while Chelsea don't. He's scored once in 11 games for them in the Prem this season.

[AlexLaw76]

26 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Is there a scenario where Broja returns to Chelsea and Timo Werner comes to Saints? He has a strong relationship with Hasenhuttl, and Ralph seems to know how to get the best out of him... while Chelsea don't. He's scored once in 11 games for them in the Prem this season.

Not a single scenario I doubt 

[TWar]

Werner is way above our level, would love to see him here, but wages are far too high.

[stknowle]

8 hours ago, Chez said:

That's my point. If you ain't great at teeing others up, just shoot. Be selfish.

With respect, that's a shit point. If someone else is better placed to score by squaring it to him then square it to him. He may not be 'great at teeing others up' right now and sometimes yes he's best to be selfish, but sometimes it's absolutely better not to be selfish and that can be coached into him.  See Son for Spurs' first goal yesterday. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Is there a scenario where Broja returns to Chelsea and Timo Werner comes to Saints? He has a strong relationship with Hasenhuttl, and Ralph seems to know how to get the best out of him... while Chelsea don't. He's scored once in 11 games for them in the Prem this season.

Some sort of loan deal, where Chelsea have so many registered players they have to get rid on deadline day and pay most of his wages. Not too many scnearios come to mind.

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, stknowle said:

With respect, that's a shit point. If someone else is better placed to score by squaring it to him then square it to him. He may not be 'great at teeing others up' right now and sometimes yes he's best to be selfish, but sometimes it's absolutely better not to be selfish and that can be coached into him.  See Son for Spurs' first goal yesterday. 

Agreed. Like when he turned the defender on the byline in the first half - all it needed was a simple little pull back and it's 1-0. There are no arguments for not passing there as shooting himself was only a half chance. 

[Dark Munster]

17 hours ago, SaintTex said:

This screen cap is ridiculously unfair -implying that somehow he was upset because Shane Long scored. Anyone who was watching saw he was brushing his fingers through his hair. 

Guilty m'lud, I was being rather naughty. I ignored his wild celebration just before.

[Turkish]

Shite again

im now more worried they offer us him in exchange for Adams 

[The Kraken]

Awful beard too. Fuck off. Slow, lazy, rubbish. Good riddance. 

[HKsaint]

This guy is only interested in scoring goals for himself to increase his value. He doesn’t care win or lose for the team. That’s why he never passes the ball to someone in a better position. 

[TWar]

5 hours ago, HKsaint said:

This guy is only interested in scoring goals for himself to increase his value. He doesn’t care win or lose for the team. That’s why he never passes the ball to someone in a better position. 

I dunno if it's that calculated, he has tried to pass a few times and cocked it up. I think he just lacks composure. When in the high pressure situation he doesn't stop and assess the situation, his head never even gets up, he just hits it goalwards or drives goalwards.

Inability to pass and lack of situational awareness have always been issues for him here, even before he got all this hype. Best case scenario for me is Chelsea see this, decide he is a level below what they'd want, and accept a record bid from us for him. Then Ralph improves his composure on the ball like he seems to have Che's. (And with any luck he helps Arma play to his strengths a bit better too)

Edited 26 February, 2022 by TWar

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

I dunno if it's that malicious. I think he just lacks composure. When in the high pressure situation he doesn't stop and assess the situation, his head never even gets up, he just hits it goalwards or drives goalwards.

Inability to pass and lack of situational awareness have always been issues for him here, even before he got all this hype. Best case scenario for me is Chelsea see this, decide he is a level below what they'd want, and accept a record bid from us for him. Then Ralph improves his composure on the ball like he seems to have Che's. (And with any luck he helps Arma play to his strengths a bit better too)

Never really been a fan of his have you?

[farawaysaint]

5 hours ago, HKsaint said:

This guy is only interested in scoring goals for himself to increase his value. He doesn’t care win or lose for the team. That’s why he never passes the ball to someone in a better position. 

He’s a 20 year old forward, I can’t think of many that have the maturity to always make the right call.

He has raw talent in spades the football brain will develop with experience.

[Chez]

5 hours ago, HKsaint said:

This guy is only interested in scoring goals for himself to increase his value. He doesn’t care win or lose for the team. That’s why he never passes the ball to someone in a better position. 

thats a very harsh assessment and I am not sure I agree that he doesn't care about the team winning and losing, but based on the last couple of games you have half an argument there. Hope you are well off the mark.

Have to say he looked the odd one out last night. We looked a well oiled machine, all part from Broja, who just didn't get with the programme. However, on another day, we will be begging for a player like him that can make things happen all on his own against top class defenders. 

We are talking about a guy with pace, power, arial threat, skills and first touch...a lack of vision (rather than not caring about winning or losing) is a small price to pay if you ask me. 

 

 

Edited 26 February, 2022 by Chez

[Saint_clark]

My worry is that he has become an automatic starter and seems to know it, and that seemed to lead to less effort being put in with the pressing. Might do him some good to be dropped either midweek or next weekend.

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Never really been a fan of his have you?

I move around on him tbh. My initial criticism is he doesn't create much and contribute to our attack other than scoring, not great hold up play or vision etc. He was just a good finisher.

He then added proactive running and pressing to his game alongside being a superb finisher, so I relented and admitted he was very good option for us.

The issue is now he is on a bit of poor form (by his early standards) and hasn't scored in a few games it becomes harder to overlook those initial faults of being pretty poor at passing, hold up play, and situational awareness. His inability to find unmarked teammates in the box has cost us atleast a couple of goals in the last few games.

I'm still positive on him and if we announced a £25m deal for him tomorrow I'd be very happy, I just don't think he is really at a level to play for a team like Arsenal or Chelsea as yet, as some suggested a few weeks back.

Edited 26 February, 2022 by TWar

[austsaint]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

My worry is that he has become an automatic starter and seems to know it, and that seemed to lead to less effort being put in with the pressing. Might do him some good to be dropped either midweek or next weekend.

I don't know about that.   His last two games have been less impressive; yet he is still highly influential and brings other attacking players into the game - especially since defenders are now paying him more attention.    He definitely needs to work on his passing and link up play - but he's still a gem.......every day of the week!  Will he be our gem next season though?

[Toadhall Saint]

22 minutes ago, TWar said:

I move around on him tbh. My initial criticism is he doesn't create much and contribute to our attack other than scoring, not great hold up play or vision etc. He was just a good finisher.

He then added proactive running and pressing to his game alongside being a superb finisher, so I relented and admitted he was very good option for us.

The issue is now he is on a bit of poor form (by his early standards) and hasn't scored in a few games it becomes harder to overlook those initial faults of being pretty poor at passing, hold up play, and situational awareness. His inability to find unmarked teammates in the box has cost us atleast a couple of goals in the last few games.

I'm still positive on him and if we announced a £25m deal for him tomorrow I'd be very happy, I just don't think he is really at a level to play for a team like Arsenal or Chelsea as yet, as some suggested a few weeks back.

So you change your mind based on each game? Let’s assume he had a goal yesterday - what would your analysis have been then?

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

So you change your mind based on each game? Let’s assume he had a goal yesterday - what would your analysis have been then?

He backed himself into a corner at the start of the season with his ridiculous claim that Armstrong had a higher ceiling than Broja when it was obvious to everyone after a few games Broja had everything in his locker to be top class. Since then he’s been scrambling around desperately clinging onto anything that justifies that. 

[TWar]

13 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

So you change your mind based on each game? Let’s assume he had a goal yesterday - what would your analysis have been then?

Wouldn't say each game, he has scored one goal in his last 7 games. He is definitely on a downturn of form.

If he'd scored yesterday his hold up play and passing would still be poor but it would certainly help. As is, he had a hot start with us and now is on a fairly average run of form. It's hard to comment what is the norm and which was the exception. Pre saints form it would suggest his initial flurry was the exception, but I think the jury is still out. If he scores a few goals in our coming easier fixtures then it would go further to proving his quality.

[TWar]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He backed himself into a corner at the start of the season with his ridiculous claim that Armstrong had a higher ceiling than Broja when it was obvious to everyone after a few games Broja had everything in his locker to be top class. Since then he’s been scrambling around desperately clinging onto anything that justifies that. 

I think this "backed into a corner" thing takes opinions on a football forum way too seriously. If I have a negative view and it's proven wrong then I am happy.

I think some people put being right on the forum over the team winning. It's weird.

[austsaint]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

Wouldn't say each game, he has scored one goal in his last 7 games. He is definitely on a downturn of form.

If he'd scored yesterday his hold up play and passing would still be poor but it would certainly help. As is, he had a hot start with us and now is on a fairly average run of form. It's hard to comment what is the norm and which was the exception. Pre saints form it would suggest his initial flurry was the exception, but I think the jury is still out. If he scores a few goals in our coming easier fixtures then it would go further to proving his quality.

You're a jury of one.   The kid is, and will be class.

[Toadhall Saint]

9 minutes ago, TWar said:

Wouldn't say each game, he has scored one goal in his last 7 games. He is definitely on a downturn of form.

If he'd scored yesterday his hold up play and passing would still be poor but it would certainly help. As is, he had a hot start with us and now is on a fairly average run of form. It's hard to comment what is the norm and which was the exception. Pre saints form it would suggest his initial flurry was the exception, but I think the jury is still out. If he scores a few goals in our coming easier fixtures then it would go further to proving his quality.

Look I appreciate you are never wrong but it is ok to be. Broja is probably the most outstanding talent I have seen at his age since the first time I saw gascoigne step out as (I think) an 18 year old at the dell for Newcastle. He scares the shit out of defenders  - I mean if you were a CB how would you play him? Get close? Lay off? Either way he has the power to hold you off or go past you like you are a cart horse. Over 5 to ten yards his acceleration is phenomenal. He won’t score with every shot - no CF in history has. Should he have more assists ? Potentially but most great goal scores when asked pas or shoot they say shoot every time and that’s what made them great. 

[TWar]

8 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Look I appreciate you are never wrong but it is ok to be. Broja is probably the most outstanding talent I have seen at his age since the first time I saw gascoigne step out as (I think) an 18 year old at the dell for Newcastle.

That's a huge shout.

And I'm often wrong and am fine with that. I thought Long would be completely useless and he's actually been pretty handy this season. I thought Armstrong would hit the ground running much more than he has.

You don't have to be "always right" to think "Broja is the best young player we've seen since Gascoigne" is a wild claim. Especially as a club that produced Shaw, Bale, Theo, etc.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out a young players limitations, I'm not even saying he's bad, I said I'd be very happy to sign him as a record deal. I just don't think he is up to the mad high standards some on here put him at, especially as someone who can't really pass or link play at all well.

 

Edited 26 February, 2022 by TWar

[beatlesaint]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

My worry is that he has become an automatic starter and seems to know it, and that seemed to lead to less effort being put in with the pressing. Might do him some good to be dropped either midweek or next weekend.

Good idea, just when we get a striker partnership that is paying off with not just goals but the problems they give defenders you want to split it up and bring in who? Adam Armstrong or Nathan Redmond? 

If we want to keep this boy on loan for a second season or whatever then I don't mind him having a few quiet or off games, it shows the hype and hysteria being built up around him is just that and there is no way Chelsea will consider him first team material for them just yet. For the bigger picture its all good, hopefully.

[S-Clarke]

It's clear that Broja is talented, but he's young. He'll have these spells. The best young players in the world have spells where they're doubted. Bale at Spurs is a pretty big example of that.

You can often tell when a player has an edge in ability and Broja has that, but he's still young and he's still learning the game and such performances like this will happen. He still gives us a threat and enables us to play in a lower block with the threat of his pace in behind, which is great when we're playing the big sides. Not so much against Norwich.

Pointless comparing him with Armstrong as they're not the same sort of player. Armstrong doesn't have the physicality of Broja and I think that is what will probably do for him at this level. (unless he bulks up massively)

Edited 26 February, 2022 by S-Clarke

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

That's a huge shout.

And I'm often wrong and am fine with that. I thought Long would be completely useless and he's actually been pretty handy this season. I thought Armstrong would hit the ground running much more than he has.

You don't have to be "always right" to think "Broja is the best young player we've seen since Gascoigne" is a wild claim. Especially as a club that produced Shaw, Bale, Theo, etc.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out a young players limitations, I'm not even saying he's bad, I said I'd be very happy to sign him as a record deal. I just don't think he is up to the mad high standards some on here put him at, especially as someone who can't really pass or link play at all well.

 

So you want to have a record purchase that cannot link play or pass? Hmmmmm