Armando Broja

[Dusic]

If Saints could sign him permanently now then we obviously would.

So we obviously can't. Sounds like Chelsea have said to wait til the summer for any decisions to be made - which from their side is clearly sensible.

Unfortunate for us buy there will be loads of teams interested in him so we have to hope he really does like it at Saints and is sensible enough to realise that playing every week in a vibrant if flawed team is much better than being in and out of the team at Chelsea, West Ham etc.

This will rumble on...

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If they buy Broja then he won't be able to  play for us. If they did that with their relegation rivals then it might give them an edge.

I don't think Chelsea have the option to recall him midseason so Broja will finish the season with us regardless. Newcastle could buy him for next year though. Also, not sure we really count as a realistic relegation rival at the moment, we are 30/1 or something to go down.

[Sheaf Saint]

I might be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure Chelsea can't sell him to anyone else this window without our agreement to terminate the loan deal early.

Whatever happens, he's our player til at least the end of the season. The only way he could leave Chelsea on a permanent deal in this window would be to join us.

[Sheaf Saint]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't think Chelsea have the option to recall him midseason so Broja will finish the season with us regardless. Newcastle could buy him for next year though. Also, not sure we really count as a realistic relegation rival at the moment, we are 30/1 or something to go down.

Ah but the odds don't actually reflect the likelihood of it happening, so I'm told.

[tunit]

9 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If they buy Broja then he won't be able to  play for us. If they did that with their relegation rivals then it might give them an edge.

I wouldn't say we're relegation rivals. We're closer to the european spots than we are to them...

[Toussaint]

3 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Ah but the odds don't actually reflect the likelihood of it happening, so I'm told.

I know, confusing isn't it? How all those bookies don't  go out of business when their odds setting process is such a finger in the air exercise. 

Edited 26 January, 2022 by Toussaint

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Report: Newcastle bid £33m for ‘brutish’ talent with just 10 Prem starts (hitc.com)

Uh oh....

[ErwinK1961]

2 hours ago, Saint Pete said:

I don't like sound of the "contract is clear" part. That suggests club has an option to buy so thinks they can leave til summer. But we've been there before haven't we? Reality is if he continues to improve between now and end of season, it will mean he will have much more options available to him at that point. In my view, I can't see us signing him in that scenario, probably not even on another loan.

That is why it makes sense for us to try to do something now, even if just to get an additional year on the loan done now. But obviously we don't know what Chelsea and/or the player have said, they may have ruled that out at this point.

See I read that “contract is clear” part as Chelsea can’t sell him / recall him in this window, so we aren’t going to be panicked into trying to buy him as he’s our player until the end of the season. 

[Mattster]

5 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

See I read that “contract is clear” part as Chelsea can’t sell him / recall him in this window, so we aren’t going to be panicked into trying to buy him as he’s our player until the end of the season. 

A risky strategy IMO, since I think our chances of securing him in the summer are far lower. Having said that, if the rumours about our £25m bid "preparation" are true then we obviously have been "panicked into it", so I wonder what triggered that?

[Toussaint]

As much as I'd like to secure him based on his services to date, why would Chelsea be in any rush, there is no incentive for Chelsea to cash in now, the end of the season is is only 4 months away. If he carries on the way he is he will be worth a lot more, eiter to them as a player or to the highest bidder. The only pressure to act now is on us, because we will be unlikely to be bale to compete at the end of the season if he does become available.

[egg]

13 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

See I read that “contract is clear” part as Chelsea can’t sell him / recall him in this window, so we aren’t going to be panicked into trying to buy him as he’s our player until the end of the season. 

It could be that, but there may be restrictions re unsettling him or seeking to buy him. One interpretation is that we've pissed Chelsea off, have smoothed it and will now shut up as we don't want to bite the hand that feeds us. 

[Saint Keef]

58 minutes ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

Haha. Newcastle obviously trying to buy him before we play them. They really are trying everything to avoid us aren't they.  Come on Eddie, don't be scared - we'd love to see you.

[badgerx16]

Unless Chelsea have a call-back clause in the current loan agreement, surely he is ours until the end of the season regardless of anybody else that might submit a bid ?

[SNOWY]

No way will Chelsea sell Broja at this stage. He looks absolute class already and his value will only increase. He may eventually end up as part of their squad. I think an extension of the loan deal to the end of next season may be our best hope. That would probably suit all parties.

[Disco Stu]

4 hours ago, saintwbu said:

Not sure other clubs would be as happy to agree to buy back clauses and sell on fees etc. Newcastle in particular see themselves as an upcoming threat to the top table (deluded, i know) so not sure they’d be keen to spend money on a player and know he could be bought off them cheap by the selling club within the next couple of years.

Newcastle can offer enough to off-set the lack of clauses though. I very much doubt Broja will be signing for anyone this window but at the same time, I believe our only chance to sign him is now.

By the end of the season, he'll have a number of suitors including West Ham, Newcastle, maybe Everton and of course Chelsea may choose to keep him.

From Chelsea's perspective, it makes sense to leave things as they are to allow him to continue gaining value playing for the Saints.

[Turkish]

 

[Saint_clark]

I don't believe that at all, as desperate as Newcastle are £40million is an absurd amount. 

[S-Clarke]

I can't believe anything the media are saying with regards to Newcastle at the moment, it's prime circus. Must be entertaining for their fans in terms of the pantomime but they're being played on a lot of things to generate stories/get clicks etc.

You read any rumour for any player and every single time you'll read ''Newcastle are also monitoring the situation' stapled somewhere in the article.

I reckon that Bruno one is legit to a point, but a few sources jumped the gun earlier.

Edited 26 January, 2022 by S-Clarke

[tunit]

56 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 

Thats just come from the same source as your first post. 'TuttoMercatoWeb'. Given that it hasn't been reported anywhere else I wouldn't say its remotely true. He can't leave for club other than us this window anyway since Chelsea can only recall him with our permission.

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, tunit said:

Thats just come from the same source as your first post. 'TuttoMercatoWeb'. Given that it hasn't been reported anywhere else I wouldn't say its remotely true. He can't leave for club other than us this window anyway since Chelsea can only recall him with our permission.

I think they can recall him, but we'd need to be paid to break the loan (possibly pay back the loan fee, whatever it was). It's not out of the question that he could be recalled and then sold to another club, but I'd say it's incredibly unlikely this late on.

Edited 26 January, 2022 by S-Clarke

[LiberalCommunist]

Bollock or not. We better do are damnedest to relegate those fucks. Its now a duty to all clubs in the epl.

[egg]

30 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I don't believe that at all, as desperate as Newcastle are £40million is an absurd amount. 

So about what we paid Guido Carillo and Vestergaard. Seems like a bargain in comparison. 

[egg]

13 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think they can recall him, but we'd need to be paid to break the loan (possibly pay back the loan fee, whatever it was). It's not out of the question that he could be recalled and then sold to another club, but I'd say it's incredibly unlikely this late on.

Only if the deal has a recall clause, or we agree to cancel if there isn't. 

If there's no recall clause, all sorts of deals could be done to encourage us to cancel...other loans, a transfer with subsidised wages, a deal on the Tino buy back, Betinelli on a free, anything really. 

[washsaint]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

So about what we paid Guido Carillo and Vestergaard. Seems like a bargain in comparison. 

You've got be kidding right?  Broja is a great prospect but 40 million is a stupid amount for someone who is just starting out.

[CB Fry]

Sounds ridiculous to me.

Broja doesn't need to sign for Newcastle, he is already a Chelsea player.

Chelsea don't need to sell to Newcastle, they can sit tight and see how he develops for the rest of the season with us.

Feels like a combination of Newcastle last minute hysteria and journos just randomly linking anyone who's had a good game recently with Newcastle. So it's either untrue or if it is true it's ridiculous and doomed to fail.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, washsaint said:

You've got be kidding right?  Broja is a great prospect but 40 million is a stupid amount for someone who is just starting out.

Nope. It's obvious to anyone that this kid is going to be very special. Sure, £40m is mega bucks, but ask yourself whether a desperate Saudi backed Newcastle paying double what we paid for Carillo a few years ago is really that outrageous. 

[kyle04]

why do they want Broja, they've already got Wood.

Oh...

[Give it to Ron]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

Nope. It's obvious to anyone that this kid is going to be very special. Sure, £40m is mega bucks, but ask yourself whether a desperate Saudi backed Newcastle paying double what we paid for Carillo a few years ago is really that outrageous. 

But we only paid that to back the manager who wanted him he wasn’t worth a quarter of that but for whatever reason the board did.

Broja looks great but he hasn’t had a full season yet and 40m is stupid money but Newcastle seem to scatter gun at moment.

I still haven’t stopped laughing at them trying to buy Dan Burn who is awful 

[JRM]

28 minutes ago, egg said:

Only if the deal has a recall clause, or we agree to cancel if there isn't. 

If there's no recall clause, all sorts of deals could be done to encourage us to cancel...other loans, a transfer with subsidised wages, a deal on the Tino buy back, Betinelli on a free, anything really. 

Remember the Alderweireld deal, we thought our loan fee deal gave us first refusal on a permanent deal, but to get out of that agreement Athletic Madrid only had to repay the loan fee to us so you never know on legal clauses. 

[supaimpy_returns]

Well Chelsea can only sell him to a club he wants to sign for, seem to remember players have a say, and lets face it, we are in the best position to tap him up!

[Stud mark of doom]

5 minutes ago, JRM said:

Remember the Alderweireld deal, we thought our loan fee deal gave us first refusal on a permanent deal, but to get out of that agreement Athletic Madrid only had to repay the loan fee to us so you never know on legal clauses. 

We the fans won’t know but the clubs lawyers 100% should know.  The Alderweireld thing seemed a bit of a farce and a one off - didn’t someone get the chop after that? 

[Saint_Jonny]

There's no way we're getting Broja on a perm this window or any other window. Just isn't going to happen. Sooner y'all accept it the better.

 

(Would love to be proven wrong, obviously).

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

Why wouldn't they sell? They can go and buy another 100m striker. They can buy him back, buy someone else. He's a long way off what they want and I seriously doubt he'll ever become that player by staying there. 

It's in Chelsea's interest to take a decent ish fee for a player who might turn out good but hasn't really done much yet. Especially if that player sees his development being better elsewhere. And from Saints point of view, it becomes pointless at a certain price. £20-25m and it's big money for us, but you could realistically see him being worth double in a year or two. If it's £30m+ that potential profit starts to dwindle and maybe we'd be better off signing two £15m players. 

£20-£25m should not be big money for us though. Most other premier league clubs have bought players for above this. It was only a few years ago we were paying that for Ings, Carillo Vestergaard. So £25m for a player like Broja shouldn’t be out of our reach. We’ve become so accustomed to this £15m price cap that anything above that feels like big money when in reality it’s a pretty standard premier league fee these days. 

[Dorchester Saint]

4 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said:

There's no way we're getting Broja on a perm this window or any other window. Just isn't going to happen. Sooner y'all accept it the better.

 

(Would love to be proven wrong, obviously).

Unless you’re a cowboy from the Wild West, you shouldn’t use terms like Y’all. And for the record, I think you’re wrong and that we have a decent chance of reaching some sort of buy back deal with Chelsea as we have with Tino. He likes it here, his family reportedly want him to stay here and Chelsea won’t be relying on him any time soon with the likes of Lukaku, Werner and Hudson-Odoi blocking his path. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

I don't believe that at all, as desperate as Newcastle are £40million is an absurd amount. 

If I was Newcastle I would pay £40m

[Saint_Jonny]

1 minute ago, Dorchester Saint said:

Unless you’re a cowboy from the Wild West, you shouldn’t use terms like Y’all. And for the record, I think you’re wrong and that we have a decent chance of reaching some sort of buy back deal with Chelsea as we have with Tino. He likes it here, his family reportedly want him to stay here and Chelsea won’t be relying on him any time soon with the likes of Lukaku, Werner and Hudson-Odoi blocking his path. 

Thank y'all for the grammar lesson, thank ya kindly, I sure will take it to heart ya hear! Boy howdie I'll have some of what your smokin' if you think we have a chance of getting him on a perm. 

He's only here because it was a good fit at the start of the season. He's clearly the mustard, or will be in the future. We're not gonna have a chance of keeping him. 

[egg]

17 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

If it's £30m+ that potential profit starts to dwindle and maybe we'd be better off signing two £15m players. 

That'd be us going backwards. We've paid more than that for loads of players and if we want to progress, we've gotta aiming higher than that. Anyway, £15m bought us Adam Armstrong and if that's the benchmark at that price point, we've got problems if £15m is our cap. 

[austsaint]

18 minutes ago, egg said:

That'd be us going backwards. We've paid more than that for loads of players and if we want to progress, we've gotta aiming higher than that. Anyway, £15m bought us Adam Armstrong and if that's the benchmark at that price point, we've got problems if £15m is our cap. 

Yep, the benefits of the new ownership should include a stronger stance on retaining our best players and a willingness to "break the bank" for the right player(s).

[Chez]

51 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

If I was Newcastle I would pay £40m

this. the next Shearer. cutting out the middle man.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Broja has a Chelsea contract until 2026. He's doing well with us. Why would he risk his progression at this point, to join a desperate basket case club, who are in a relegation fight?

Even if Newcastle were to survive, there's no guarantee he'd not find his path blocked again, as Newcastle buy in more marquee signings every season.

Another scenario has him playing in the Championship for at least a season, when he could be playing in the Premier League.

It would be lovely if he could join us. But options of us extending the loan deal into future seasons might suit Chelsea and Broja more.

Broja could really establish himself over the next couple of seasons, with us or a club playing in Europe on loan. Then have his pick of a number of clubs. If Newcastle were realising the champions League aspirations they had as clauses in recent contract offers, then they could be one of his options then.

It seems a bigger risk to be joining them now, and hoping it all goes well, considering it's a club linked with everyone and with no decent planning in place.

[Dusic]

https://www.teamtalk.com/leeds-united/exclusive-armando-broja-race-everton-wolves

 

We had better get used to this. Any non top 6 club not looking at him would be stupid.

[HarvSFC]

Newcastle, West Ham, Staying at Chelsea, you can justify, even if they are non-footballing reasons with Newcastle. Everton, Leeds, Wolves, we'd have dropped a clanger if he goes to one of those.

[saintscottofthenortham]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

Remember the Alderweireld deal, we thought our loan fee deal gave us first refusal on a permanent deal, but to get out of that agreement Athletic Madrid only had to repay the loan fee to us so you never know on legal clauses. 

The issue with the Alderweireld deal was it had a date to be completed by. They all dragged their heels to allow that date to pass and, surprise surprise, Daniel Levy was behind it all sitting and waiting to swoop. 
 

This, at this stage, is a totally different situation. Not least because it doesn’t appear we have an option to buy in the loan deal, as we did with Toby. 

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, JRM said:

Remember the Alderweireld deal, we thought our loan fee deal gave us first refusal on a permanent deal, but to get out of that agreement Athletic Madrid only had to repay the loan fee to us so you never know on legal clauses. 

To many people got carried away with Toby. It's not a hostage situation: first refusal does not mean a player has to sign for you if they don't want to.

Ultimately a player can decide who he wants to play for. Toby was never ours.

But I'm also very comfortable in thinking this is also a reason why Broja is not going to sign for Newcastle this January. They can offer £50m to Chelsea and I still don't think he'd want to go there now. And he won't.

[Cartman]

Have there been any links to other clubs that didn't come from the random rumour generators that are Football Insider, Teamtalk and Tuttomercatoweb?

[skintsaint]

Apologies if already posted : 

 

 

 

[macca155]

Whilst a fabulous a prospect, Broja isn't our player and that is the nub of it. I think we have to accept that he really is just on loan. If another team is prepared to pay £40 million for him then Chelsea would be mad to sell him, particularly to Newcastle who will be a major threat in 2 or 3 years. If they do decide to sell then I fear that Saints are going to be blown out of this race pretty quickly.

There are several factors that might help. Ralph is good at developing players and it may be that Broja himself appreciates that and elects to stay here for another year. That seems unlikely as Chelsea will want him to play European football next year before drafting him into their team. Chelsea may, just may, decide that Saints are a good incubator for their players. They can park a prospect with Saints, watch them develop at no risk to themselves, and then be in a position to make a decision about them a year or two later.

However one of the Italian clubs will happily give him a loan berth next year. That would be the next logical step in his development. Also need to watch out for Lampard at Everton, I'd imagine he'll be looking to buy/loan Broja next year. Fortunately they cannot offer anything more than Saints at the moment.

I don't know what I think about that as it puts Saints firmly down the pecking order. I guess Saints will do the same to other clubs but it isn't a comfortable feeling either way.

He's only 20 and at the moment everything is going well, that won't last. Premier league defenders will be watching clips of him very carefully and will be developing strategies to neutralise him. With the form he is in good luck with that, but sooner or later they'll work out how to make life hard for him. That is when Broja will show whether he has the toolkit to be one of the greats or fades under the pressure.

Look at Armstrong 30 goals in the Championship, couldn't miss, seems to have completely lost sight of the goal in the Premier league. It may be that Broja's form has restricted his opportunities but my level of hope in AA is starting to diminish. In the background Saints also have Olaigbe starting to make a noise, which means Armstrong has to start delivering soon. I hope he does, be good for us and him.

Major positive to all this drama is that the club is reinforcing its status as offering a quick route through to the 1st team, and that might help steal a few more Tinos in the future.

 

[terraloon]

1 hour ago, macca155 said:

Whilst a fabulous a prospect, Broja isn't our player and that is the nub of it. I think we have to accept that he really is just on loan. If another team is prepared to pay £40 million for him then Chelsea would be mad to sell him, particularly to Newcastle who will be a major threat in 2 or 3 years. If they do decide to sell then I fear that Saints are going to be blown out of this race pretty quickly.

There are several factors that might help. Ralph is good at developing players and it may be that Broja himself appreciates that and elects to stay here for another year. That seems unlikely as Chelsea will want him to play European football next year before drafting him into their team. Chelsea may, just may, decide that Saints are a good incubator for their players. They can park a prospect with Saints, watch them develop at no risk to themselves, and then be in a position to make a decision about them a year or two later.

However one of the Italian clubs will happily give him a loan berth next year. That would be the next logical step in his development. Also need to watch out for Lampard at Everton, I'd imagine he'll be looking to buy/loan Broja next year. Fortunately they cannot offer anything more than Saints at the moment.

I don't know what I think about that as it puts Saints firmly down the pecking order. I guess Saints will do the same to other clubs but it isn't a comfortable feeling either way.

He's only 20 and at the moment everything is going well, that won't last. Premier league defenders will be watching clips of him very carefully and will be developing strategies to neutralise him. With the form he is in good luck with that, but sooner or later they'll work out how to make life hard for him. That is when Broja will show whether he has the toolkit to be one of the greats or fades under the pressure.

Look at Armstrong 30 goals in the Championship, couldn't miss, seems to have completely lost sight of the goal in the Premier league. It may be that Broja's form has restricted his opportunities but my level of hope in AA is starting to diminish. In the background Saints also have Olaigbe starting to make a noise, which means Armstrong has to start delivering soon. I hope he does, be good for us and him.

Major positive to all this drama is that the club is reinforcing its status as offering a quick route through to the 1st team, and that might help steal a few more Tinos in the future.

 

This is very much how I see it but the concern will be that to date we haven’t seen any evidence to suggest that Chelsea have any intention to sell him  indeed all evidence to the contrary,nor had any of the other clubs like Newcastle like WHU be throwing their caps into the ring if the response to the questions about his future not been met with the nonsense and naive response about trying to buy him.

 The response should and could have been something along the lines of “He is doing well but he is Chelsea player”

I have no idea if Chelsea will even bother to engage in any permanent transfer discussion or indeed whatSaints were told about the player in terms of how Chelsea’s development plans were when they agreed to loan him but the evidence suggests Chelsea see him at their club going forward and to a club like Chelsea the length of his contract for a 20 year old is unique so they clearly rate him.

There is a delicate line to tread between between reasonable conversations and what looks to me very close to tapping up. The fact is he is a contracted  Chelsea player they will we be in constant dialogue with him so will know exactly how the player feels.

But it’s the comments made to the media is the concern because he clearly is a player contracted to Chelsea and whilst tapping up goes on everywhere the consequences if another club, in this instance Chelsea,  made a complaint are quite mind blowing and I wonder if that could include the forced cancellation of a loan .

Edited 27 January, 2022 by terraloon

[Tank]

23 hours ago, Dusic said:

If Saints could sign him permanently now then we obviously would.

So we obviously can't. Sounds like Chelsea have said to wait til the summer for any decisions to be made - which from their side is clearly sensible.

Unfortunate for us buy there will be loads of teams interested in him so we have to hope he really does like it at Saints and is sensible enough to realise that playing every week in a vibrant if flawed team is much better than being in and out of the team at Chelsea, West Ham etc.

This will rumble on...

rumble rumble
it's basically the same choice Ingsy had ['cept of course he's a young'n], we try our best to make our star players feel loved. 

Edited 27 January, 2022 by Tank

[Tank]

15 hours ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Thank y'all for the grammar lesson, thank ya kindly, I sure will take it to heart ya hear! Boy howdie I'll have some of what your smokin' if you think we have a chance of getting him on a perm. 

He's only here because it was a good fit at the start of the season. He's clearly the mustard, or will be in the future. We're not gonna have a chance of keeping him. 

mebbe we can lasso the varmint