Armando Broja

[Toussaint]

38 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't see a problem with the buy-back/first refusal in our model to be honest. We may sell a tiny bit below going rates at the time of the buy back, but we'd still gain money from our initial outlay 2 years prior. (that's if the selling club are interested in having them back)

At the end of the day anyone decent we sign outright is here for 2 seasons max. Mane, VVD etc, so it probably doesn't make a huge difference.

With the buy back approach we put ourselves at the front of the queue in grabbing really good youngsters from the top clubs.

To be honest I've never really understood how it works, using Livramento as an example, how is the fee set? Do we say we want £50 million, Chelsea say no, we then sell him to Liverpool for £35 million, can Chelsea come back at us? Or, do Chelsea say they are paying £25 million and they then go and flip him for £35 million? I can't get my head round it.  Or was the value agreed at the time of signing?

That aside, it feels it's just another way of the very wealthiest clubs increasing their pool of players.

[Dman]

6 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

To be honest I've never really understood how it works, using Livramento as an example, how is the fee set? Do we say we want £50 million, Chelsea say no, we then sell him to Liverpool for £35 million, can Chelsea come back at us? Or, do Chelsea say they are paying £25 million and they then go and flip him for £35 million? I can't get my head round it.  Or was the value agreed at the time of signing?

That aside, it feels it's just another way of the very wealthiest clubs increasing their pool of players.

it’s a very simple concept, to be honest. 

When agreeing the deal with the selling club, in this case Chelsea, it was agreed that they could buy the player back for X price (usually these deals have a start and end date - for example that fee kicks in starting x and ends y)

The buy back price is only applicable to said club (Chelsea), so if Liverpool offer is 50m which we’re happy to accept, but we have already agreed Chelsea can buy for 25m, we would have to accept both offers, regardless of what is higher… basically if Chelsea meet the price set in the time period set, we have to accept the offer. 

This doesn’t mean the player has to go to that club, they could refuse, which would allow us to sell to the open market at a price we want. 

Finally, if Chelsea want to purchase him before or after the period set (I don’t know what this is or if there is a period at all), then we aren’t obliged to accept any offer for him.

[goodymatt]

 

[MarkSFC]

7 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

"Soon"??!! They've only got 5 days left this window!! 

Isn't this guy normally spot on with things?

[saint lard]

8 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

Well that tells us something about our new owners,if true. 
I would be shocked if we got  him for £25m….and delighted. 

[goodymatt]

3 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

"Soon"??!! They've only got 5 days left this window!! 

Isn't this guy normally spot on with things?

Yeah this guy knows his transfers. It’s encouraging we are bidding if we have been in discussions with Chelsea. I doubt we would just randomly be bidding without any encouragement? Perhaps I’m being too optimistic…

[egg]

14 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

Nice show of intent, but I'd be staggered if we get him for that. I think we've also gotta be careful about keeping our relationship with Chelsea sweet. They're a conveyer belt of talent for potential loans and talent and we've got to keep an eye on the bigger picture. 

[Dman]

I’d have thought 30m is more likely the figure they’d want (if he’s for sale at all). The fact we’ve made an offer would suggest that we’ve been encouraged that he potentially is available though..? 

[Dusic]

Rather than being encouraged by Chelsea, it would suggest Broja is keen enough for us to make a bid, which if true would be promising.

From Chelsea point of view surely they will want to let his loan finish and then decide.

[Uncle Albert]

Are we likely to raise on this if 25 isn’t enough, say 30 M?

[austsaint]

5 minutes ago, Uncle Albert said:

Are we likely to raise on this if 25 isn’t enough, say 30 M?

Surely we would.  If it got to that stage and 5m stood in the way of a deal, the new ownership would have to meet the 30m price.   

[Mattster]

35 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Yeah this guy knows his transfers. It’s encouraging we are bidding if we have been in discussions with Chelsea. I doubt we would just randomly be bidding without any encouragement? Perhaps I’m being too optimistic…

I'm wondering if this bid is the culmination of talks with Chelsea with a good idea of where each club sits on the issue, or whether it is a slightly more desperate act given that we are now towards the end of the window, and we just want to force Chelsea to make a decision. Or somewhere in the middle. Fingers crossed in any case, we should know more soon.

Edited 26 January, 2022 by Mattster

[beatlesaint]

I don’t see why £25 million would be turned down, saying they want £30 million. All they need do is adjust the buy back figure surely?

As stated it would be strange to randomly submit a bid if the talks with Chelsea hadn’t encouraged it.

If it’s true of course.

[tunit]

I would also be shocked if on the face of him we get him for that. But if we stack the deal with a buy back clause and additional fees for gaols scored etc. They might go for it. This would be very important. If we don't get him now I don't think we will with West Ham sniffing around

[Turkish]

35 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Rather than being encouraged by Chelsea, it would suggest Broja is keen enough for us to make a bid, which if true would be promising.

From Chelsea point of view surely they will want to let his loan finish and then decide.

Remember we did a similar deal with them for Bertrand. One year loan but we ended up completing the deal permanently in the January window, i guess the remaining terms of the loan deal will be tied up in overall deal. Either way i hope we haven't wasted time bidding for him if Chelsea have no intention of selling and/or Broja has no intention of joining. You'd think that this is an encouraging sign on one or both of those accounts.

[austsaint]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Remember we did a similar deal with them for Bertrand. One year loan but we ended up completing the deal permanently in the January window, i guess the remaining terms of the loan deal will be tied up in overall deal. Either way i hope we haven't wasted time bidding for him if Chelsea have no intention of selling and/or Broja has no intention of joining. You'd think that this is an encouraging sign on one or both of those accounts.

This is a bit different to the Bertrand deal though.   From memory RB was 25 at the time, had been on loan at several other Clubs and while he looked a good player straight away for Saints, there weren't compelling reasons for Chelsea not to sell for the 10m or so fee.   Broja's a 20 year old with unique attributes; the "world at his feet" and no certainty that Chelsea want to sell, let alone that other Clubs are interested.

[Saint Garrett]

I think £25m is fair, especially if we paid a loan fee this year. He's only got 1 decent 4 months under his belt.

Also, the cost of this deal is going to be influenced heavily with whatever the buy back would be. £50 / 60m in 2 years time or something?  No doubt his stock is high though, and assuming tthats true, clearly the club are afraid he'll end up elsewhere in the summer.

 

[S-Clarke]

We're not like Newcastle, so we wouldn't put down that amount of cash in an offer for a situation that may not even happen. We've clearly been given the right indicators by Broja and his reps, Chelsea probably haven't been shut off to the idea either (they are known for selling their young players). It's a business at the end of the day, so if they can get a big fee up front now with the potential to re-buy him for £40-50m in a few years it's probably a good deal for them. Still not a bad deal for us as there's still profit to be made if it goes that way.

Hard to see how this pans out at the moment, always felt a 2nd loan was more possible but we'll see.

Edited 26 January, 2022 by S-Clarke

[Saint Garrett]

9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We're not like Newcastle, so we wouldn't put down that amount of cash in an offer for a situation that may not even happen. We've clearly been given the right indicators by Broja and his reps, Chelsea probably haven't been shut off to the idea either (they are known for selling their young players). It's a business at the end of the day, so if they can get a big fee up front now with the potential to re-buy him for £40-50m in a few years it's probably a good deal for them. Still not a bad deal for us as there's still profit to be made if it goes that way.

Hard to see how this pans out at the moment, always felt a 2nd loan was more possible but we'll see.

Seems pretty clear from all articles, that a second loan is not going to happen.  He'll either be part of their squad next season, or he'll be sold.

[Harry_SFC]

Broja has clearly enjoyed his time here so far and obviously loves the fact he is pretty much guarenteed a start each week. I'd imagine he'd get a hefty pay rise if he joined us as well. Despite being a Chelsea lad, him joining us permanently isn't as far fetched as it might seem. 

Also he knows that if he performs well for us over the next 2-3 years he'll probably be back at Chelsea anyway. 

I wonder whether reported interest in Broja has sped up the bidding process from our end? 

Edited 26 January, 2022 by Harry_SFC

[Convict Colony]

Obvs he has shown ralph in training he can develop him a lot if he stayed with us regardless of what he has already done this season.

25m and turn him into a 100m striker in 3yrs 

[SuperSAINT]

28 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We're not like Newcastle, so we wouldn't put down that amount of cash in an offer for a situation that may not even happen. We've clearly been given the right indicators by Broja and his reps, Chelsea probably haven't been shut off to the idea either (they are known for selling their young players). It's a business at the end of the day, so if they can get a big fee up front now with the potential to re-buy him for £40-50m in a few years it's probably a good deal for them. Still not a bad deal for us as there's still profit to be made if it goes that way.

Hard to see how this pans out at the moment, always felt a 2nd loan was more possible but we'll see.

All this.

I’d be so much happier if it was a Here we go post from Romano.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just hope this doesn't turn into a bidding war with the likes of West Ham and Newcastle. If they get involved will be hard for us to compete. 

[beatlesaint]

4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Just hope this doesn't turn into a bidding war with the likes of West Ham and Newcastle. If they get involved will be hard for us to compete. 

Would those two be so accomodating in adding a buy back clause to his contract though?

Would Chelsea want to help strengthen West Ham who are going for top 4 and where there is no love lost between the clubs

Would Chelsea want to help kick start the Newcastle revolution that could see them as rivals (altho not with Howe in charge) 

 

I'm only trying to convince myself by the way 😂

 

It would however send out a massive statement from the new owners as well 👍 

[Dorchester Saint]

If true, £25 million seems a bit laughable to me; unless a buy back clause is in there as well. Admittedly, I know f**k all about transfer dealings. I really hope if able, we really push the boat out to get him .

[St. Neil]

Make this a permanent then seen if there is another loan available from Chelsea.

[nta786]

I don't understand why Chelsea would agree to this unless the buyback is set at something like £35m, he is tied down to them for another 4 years I think, why would they want to pay in excess of £25m for a player they already have?

They could just charge 2 loan fees at £5m over next 2 seasons and it wouldn't cost them anything that way to get him back either in 2 years time.

The only other factors I can think of would be to balance the books for FFP, or more unlikely, for cashflow purposes, but I'm encouraged by this, let's hope someone at Chelsea makes a huge miscalculation. 

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

I think £25m is fair, especially if we paid a loan fee this year. He's only got 1 decent 4 months under his belt.

Also, the cost of this deal is going to be influenced heavily with whatever the buy back would be. £50 / 60m in 2 years time or something?  No doubt his stock is high though, and assuming tthats true, clearly the club are afraid he'll end up elsewhere in the summer.

 

I imagine if Chelsea were to agree to "sell" Broja to Saints, the buy back fee would be identical to what we might pay for him. No way would they agree a deal where they had to pay us more to get him back than we paid them in the first place? Makes no sense at all. 

Any advantage to Chelsea of a short-term "transfer" as opposed to an extended loan would be cash flow, some money in their coffers and his wages off their balance sheet. 

[S-Clarke]

6 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

I imagine if Chelsea were to agree to "sell" Broja to Saints, the buy back fee would be identical to what we might pay for him. No way would they agree a deal where they had to pay us more to get him back than we paid them in the first place? Makes no sense at all. 

Any advantage to Chelsea of a short-term "transfer" as opposed to an extended loan would be cash flow, some money in their coffers and his wages off their balance sheet. 

Any buy back isn't going to be the same cost as we pay them today, it will be more - that's how they work.

Chelsea are cash rich so an extra £20m or so 2 years down the line probably won't bother them a great deal. Lots of clubs do these sort of things, City do it a lot on their young players. I think, amazingly, Angus Gunn came with a buy back in his deal when we bought him from City. Douglas Luiz at Villa has a £30m buy back as well.

One of the things with buy backs is that they can expire, so if after 2 or 3 years the player isn't on Chelsea's radar then their opportunity to buy back expires and he's then on the open market if we decide to sell.

I think there's a lot of millage in these sort of deals because it opens the door to players that are probably not gettable otherwise.

Edited 26 January, 2022 by S-Clarke

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

Looks like a Broja bid is imminent... 😂

[igsey]

32 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I don't understand why Chelsea would agree to this unless the buyback is set at something like £35m, he is tied down to them for another 4 years I think, why would they want to pay in excess of £25m for a player they already have?

They could just charge 2 loan fees at £5m over next 2 seasons and it wouldn't cost them anything that way to get him back either in 2 years time.

The only other factors I can think of would be to balance the books for FFP, or more unlikely, for cashflow purposes, but I'm encouraged by this, let's hope someone at Chelsea makes a huge miscalculation. 

There's the new rules coming in limiting the number of players out on loan a club can have. Sale with a buy-back clause is not dissimilar to a loan - but obviously would depend on the player agreeing to go.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

Looks like a Broja bid is imminent... 😂

Signing imminent give his track record 

[revolution saint]

I think there are reasons why Chelsea might decide to sell.  There's no guarantee Broja will develop into a world class top, top striker.  I think we've all seen enough to know he's going to be a pretty good premier league player and personally I think he'll go higher than that but it's not a given.  One of the ways he will progress is by playing regularly and Chelsea probably won't be able to give him that.  Sure, they could send him out on loan again but it's not ideal for Broja to be constantly having to adapt to a new team every season.  The player himself might indicate he feels moving is in his best interests and in that case clubs don't tend to keep players who want to move. 

In many ways Chelsea can't lose here - they could bring him back and make him a part of the first team but if they don't feel he's quite ready then they can sell and in all probability get a deal that means they could buy him back for a fraction of the money it would cost to get another player of his ability.  Lets say we buy him for 25M and there's a buyback for 50M.  Presumably that only gets exercised if they consider him to be a consistent first team player.  It'll have cost them 25M  and they get a nailed on starter.  That's not much for a striker (at a top six club) these days.  Keeping him at Chelsea as a bit part player might mean he never gets the opportunities to progress to that level.

Probably won't happen but I don't think it's completely unrealistic.

[nta786]

18 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Any buy back isn't going to be the same cost as we pay them today, it will be more - that's how they work.

Chelsea are cash rich so an extra £20m or so 2 years down the line probably won't bother them a great deal. Lots of clubs do these sort of things, City do it a lot on their young players. I think, amazingly, Angus Gunn came with a buy back in his deal when we bought him from City. Douglas Luiz at Villa has a £30m buy back as well.

City also did it for Iheanacho, sold him for £25m and had the clause set at £50m.

I don't think any of those players mentioned though has the ceiling that Broja has, but equally I can't comment on the contract situation for either players

[LiberalCommunist]

26 minutes ago, igsey said:

There's the new rules coming in limiting the number of players out on loan a club can have. Sale with a buy-back clause is not dissimilar to a loan - but obviously would depend on the player agreeing to go.

This is the only thing that makes me think there might be a tiny chance of something happening. About 2% likely I'd say. 

[Saint Scott]

Adam Blackmore

To add a #SaintsFc perspective: It’s a given they like Armando “The contract is clear. There is no need to do this now. No rush. Let Armando play football - it’s time for calm. The relationship with #CFC is good & calm”, I’m told. Things change but “calm” is their wish atm

[Mattster]

17 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Adam Blackmore

To add a #SaintsFc perspective: It’s a given they like Armando “The contract is clear. There is no need to do this now. No rush. Let Armando play football - it’s time for calm. The relationship with #CFC is good & calm”, I’m told. Things change but “calm” is their wish atm

The counterpoint to that is that if Broja continues to develop at the rate he has, and is even more impressive in the second half of this season (and remember he wasn't even a nailed on starter for us at the beginning of the season), then we could be outbid, or Chelsea could decide they really can't afford to let him go. Of course, it could go the other way too, that's the risk you take. A bird in the hand is worth two in bush - for me, if there is any chance at all of getting it done in this window then we should go all out for it.

[Turkish]

20 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Adam Blackmore

To add a #SaintsFc perspective: It’s a given they like Armando “The contract is clear. There is no need to do this now. No rush. Let Armando play football - it’s time for calm. The relationship with #CFC is good & calm”, I’m told. Things change but “calm” is their wish atm

I just had a flashback to Les being "relaxed" about the Alderwierld situation, wonder if we'll threaten to sue Chelsea when he's unveiled at Newcastle.

[Turkish]

Report: Newcastle bid £33m for ‘brutish’ talent with just 10 Prem starts (hitc.com)

Uh oh....

Edited 26 January, 2022 by Turkish

[BERMUDASAINT]

CHELSEA  owe us,  we have hampered City twice this season. Loan us a player to take points off your rivals, we'll we did our part. Now it  is up to Chelsea to take advantage of city dropped points.

I hope they sell with buyback clause. We are a very good for for him, he is doing well. We are playing the type of football that would develop Broja into the type of player that will be accustomed to the modern game of high press and appeal to the top 3 and how they play. Touchel probably likes the way we play and seems to like Ralf.

[Saint Pete]

23 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Adam Blackmore

To add a #SaintsFc perspective: It’s a given they like Armando “The contract is clear. There is no need to do this now. No rush. Let Armando play football - it’s time for calm. The relationship with #CFC is good & calm”, I’m told. Things change but “calm” is their wish atm

I don't like sound of the "contract is clear" part. That suggests club has an option to buy so thinks they can leave til summer. But we've been there before haven't we? Reality is if he continues to improve between now and end of season, it will mean he will have much more options available to him at that point. In my view, I can't see us signing him in that scenario, probably not even on another loan.

That is why it makes sense for us to try to do something now, even if just to get an additional year on the loan done now. But obviously we don't know what Chelsea and/or the player have said, they may have ruled that out at this point.

[beatlesaint]

4 minutes ago, Saint Pete said:

I don't like sound of the "contract is clear" part. That suggests club has an option to buy so thinks they can leave til summer. But we've been there before haven't we? Reality is if he continues to improve between now and end of season, it will mean he will have much more options available to him at that point. In my view, I can't see us signing him in that scenario, probably not even on another loan.

That is why it makes sense for us to try to do something now, even if just to get an additional year on the loan done now. But obviously we don't know what Chelsea and/or the player have said, they may have ruled that out at this point.

We've been calm far too many times in the past when its gone tits up, Toby was one, Clyne and Ings were another two.

I know its different ownership but once bitten...... 

[beatlesaint]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Report: Newcastle bid £33m for ‘brutish’ talent with just 10 Prem starts (hitc.com)

Uh oh....

they've just bought Chris Wood to do the job Broja would do......not as well admitted but thats their problem. They are linked with just about anyone that can kick a ball at the moment such is their scattergun approach and sheer panic to get players in.

[SonicBoom]

Just now, beatlesaint said:

they've just bought Chris Wood to do the job Broja would do......not as well admitted but thats their problem. They are linked with just about anyone that can kick a ball at the moment such is their scattergun approach and sheer panic to get players in.

Well either that or the press are linking them with the world and his wife. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

they've just bought Chris Wood to do the job Broja would do......not as well admitted but thats their problem. They are linked with just about anyone that can kick a ball at the moment such is their scattergun approach and sheer panic to get players in.

Yep, they're getting desperate, or at least the media are to link them with everyone. Although Broja might see them as a good long term bet regardless of what happens this season.

[tajjuk]

Moving to Newcastle makes no sense for Broja currently IMO, they still easily could go down, they have only secured 2 players in so far, neither of which are massive game changers and look like the are maybe getting a 3rd over the loan with an unknown quantity from the French league. Hardly like even with Broja they will have transformed basically one of the worst teams in the league. Why risk getting relegated moving to Newcastle now when he could basically keep playing PL for us, already getting on really well with the club and the manager (likely with a buy back to go to Chelsea) or just go back to Chelsea to compete in their squad next season or move in the summer.  Even the extra money the offer on wages, long term not worth it if stunts his development or drops him into the championship.  

[MAY-Z]

23 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Report: Newcastle bid £33m for ‘brutish’ talent with just 10 Prem starts (hitc.com)

Uh oh....

I think that’s good news for us, surely there wouldn’t be the article from earlier today suggesting we are preparing a bid, plus this one if Chelsea hadn’t let it be know he would be available?

[saintwbu]

Not sure other clubs would be as happy to agree to buy back clauses and sell on fees etc. Newcastle in particular see themselves as an upcoming threat to the top table (deluded, i know) so not sure they’d be keen to spend money on a player and know he could be bought off them cheap by the selling club within the next couple of years.

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, MAY-Z said:

I think that’s good news for us, surely there wouldn’t be the article from earlier today suggesting we are preparing a bid, plus this one if Chelsea hadn’t let it be know he would be available?

But their offer is supposedly £8m, so i guess it depends on what sort of deal Chelsea want, cant see us getting into, or winning, a price war with them.

[Whitey Grandad]

43 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

they've just bought Chris Wood to do the job Broja would do......not as well admitted but thats their problem. They are linked with just about anyone that can kick a ball at the moment such is their scattergun approach and sheer panic to get players in.

If they buy Broja then he won't be able to  play for us. If they did that with their relegation rivals then it might give them an edge.