Who will be our No1 keeper next season

[Markyruk]

Should we give McCarthy a new contract. His performances since coming back into the team suggest that we should. Lumley obviously not trusted and the jury still out on Baz.

do we go out and buy, if so who?

[Midfield_General]

Rumours that Celtic are sniffing, to replace Joe Hart who retires this summer:

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/alex-mccarthy-celtic-transfer-wait-29195113

[badgerx16]

Who is that backup lad at Spurs ? Fraser something.......

[Sheaf Saint]

If we don't go up, and Macca is happy to renew on reduced wages, then I wouldn't be against that at all.

However, if we win next Sunday then we need to go all in on a quality, experienced keeper in the summer, who Baz can learn from during and following his recovery.

[CamSaint]

6 minutes ago, Markyruk said:

do we go out and buy, if so who?

If either they don't fancy giving AM an extension, or he doesn't want to accept it, my guess is that they'll bring someone in on loan for a year while Bazunu recovers. Who that someone is will depend on which division we're in, I guess.

[Lighthouse]

I’m hoping we let McC go and are looking at bringing in other options, personally.

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I’m hoping we let McC go and are looking at bringing in other options, personally.

I like McCarthy but I agree, we need to be signing a new number one no matter what. If we're still in the championship then Woodman or Johansson seem the obvious choices.

[AlexLaw76]

7 minutes ago, CamSaint said:

If either they don't fancy giving AM an extension, or he doesn't want to accept it, my guess is that they'll bring someone in on loan for a year while Bazunu recovers. Who that someone is will depend on which division we're in, I guess.

Even getting someone on loan, signalling Bazunu is still long term No.1, would be crazy.

Get a new No.1 in relation to the division we are in...

[Lord Duckhunter]

With AM  it’s a lose lose situation imo. Whilst I’d have him in the championship, he’s on premier league type money. If we go up he’s not good enough, if we stay down he’s too expensive. 
 

I know people will say “take a pay cut”. But he’s shown this year he seems perfectly happy Sat on his arse most of the season. He’ll get a 2nd or 3rd choice spot with that money, no bother. 
 

Baz, I’d bin no matter which league we’re in. 
 

New keeper needed. 

Edited May 18 by Lord Duckhunter

[Roo1976]

Scott Carson from city..............must be fresh as a daisy 🤪

[Chez]

Go up, buy Ramsdale, job done.

Knowing us, we'll give McCarthy a new deal then play Lumley until Baz is fit.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Chez said:

Go up, buy Ramsdale, job done.

Knowing us, we'll give McCarthy a new deal then play Lumley until Baz is fit.

I've found Arsenals treatment of him a bit odd to be honest. Raya is ok, but they're pretty much the same - it's not like they've upgraded.

[sambosa75]

Think McCarthy will be off.  Enough clubs seem happy to take him on as 2nd/3rd choice.  What is abundantly clear is the need for a new 1st choice keeper.  It’s been a breath of fresh air the last few games having a keeper in the team capable of making some saves.

[sambosa75]

13 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I've found Arsenals treatment of him a bit odd to be honest. Raya is ok, but they're pretty much the same - it's not like they've upgraded.

Didn’t do himself any favours admitting he can’t concentrate for 90 mins.  Not many sides going to be comfortable splashing the required sums of money for a player who readily admits he zones out during games.

[gio1saints]

I think Alex will leave too. But I also think our new keeper will not be a #2.I think our best value option is the Rotherham keeper. He is an excellent shot stopper and I think he can kick it a bit too so everyone’s happy. 😁3 way competition for places- or not if Lumley gets hacked off at that. Can’t see Baz voluntarily leaving. 
A straight swop with Rotherham not such a bad bargain imo. R got to be favourites to go up and Gav will play every week. 

Edited May 18 by gio1saints

[Lee On Solent Saint]

29 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I've found Arsenals treatment of him a bit odd to be honest. Raya is ok, but they're pretty much the same - it's not like they've upgraded.

He's probably not on our radar due to cost, plus he's not great withi his feet either, which seems to be the main priority for us when looking at keepers.

[Gingeletiss]

45 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

Didn’t do himself any favours admitting he can’t concentrate for 90 mins.  Not many sides going to be comfortable splashing the required sums of money for a player who readily admits he zones out during games.

BBC claims Newcastle are in for him, 15m quoted.

[Baird of the land]

They’ve already (stupidly imo) committed themselves to lumley. If we stay down I doubt we’ll want to be spending money on a keeper and will instead be looking for a stopgap.  Dependent on wage demands, his interest in stayingand other free agent/loan goalkeepers available mccarthy certainly becomes a possible option. 
 

[Midfield_General]

If we don’t go up I’d be surprised if we didn’t at least take a look at Lis in the close season, given he’s our player and seems to be doing pretty well in Turkey (though no idea of the standard of the league he’s in)

[OldNick]

I have ondered that if McCarthy had been our keeper all season whether we would be already promoted. To me Baz made many crucial mistakes this season and last

[Master Bates]

Lis or Lumley.

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

I have wondered that if McCarthy had been our keeper all season whether we would be already promoted. To me Baz made many crucial mistakes this season and last

No.

A lot of people don’t rate Baz, okay fine, but this fantasy that McC is somehow leagues above him is false. He played the last 6 games of last season and we looked dreadful, conceding 17 goals. He's acquitted himself well at the end of this season but he’s definitely living in the ‘not Bazunu’ honeymoon period right now, in the eyes of many.

The Stoke goal he conceded was pretty poor and he could have conceded a couple more yesterday, dropping a fairly routine catch and passing the ball straight out to a WBA player. A full season of those kind of mistakes and people’s patience would soon run out.

[HKsaint]

Baz brought us to where he belongs and now McC brings us back to where he and we belong.

Edited May 18 by HKsaint

[Master Bates]

Just now, HKsaint said:

Bad brought we to where he belongs and now McC brings us back to where he and we belong.

Bad is bad.

[Whitey Grandad]

16 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

No.

A lot of people don’t rate Baz, okay fine, but this fantasy that McC is somehow leagues above him is false. He played the last 6 games of last season and we looked dreadful, conceding 17 goals. He's acquitted himself well at the end of this season but he’s definitely living in the ‘not Bazunu’ honeymoon period right now, in the eyes of many.

The Stoke goal he conceded was pretty poor and he could have conceded a couple more yesterday, dropping a fairly routine catch and passing the ball straight out to a WBA player. A full season of those kind of mistakes and people’s patience would soon run out.

I haven’t forgotten that goal he let him at home to Bournemouth.

[Lord Duckhunter]

AM is a competent championship keeper, Baz isn’t.  That’s the long and short of it. 

[pingpong]

If we're promoted, baz.

If not, we'll probably lose him and need to replace, probably from lower down the league.

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, pingpong said:

If we're promoted, baz.

If not, we'll probably lose him and need to replace, probably from lower down the league.

LOL

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, pingpong said:

If we're promoted, baz.

If not, we'll probably lose him and need to replace, probably from lower down the league.

He won’t be back playing for a long time yet so we shall need a replacement for the start of the season whichever league we’re in. I’m sure we can do better than either him or McCarthy.

[Midfield_General]

One thing the last few games have shown is that the narrative that McCarthy can't possibly play in our system because he's not good enough with his feet, is nonsense. 

His first touch isn't as good, so he doesn't like receiving it under pressure, but then it's generally suicidal to pass back to the keeper anyway if they're getting pressed, whoever you've got in goal. 

When Macca has the ball at his feet and he's not under loads of pressure, his ability to pick a pass looks pretty much on a par with Bazunu to me. He's regularly been pinging 40-50 yard passes very accurately to unmarked players in our midfield. Not every single one comes off, but then neither did Bazunu's. This idea that Baz is some irreplaceable, Ederson-level talent with his feet just doesn't stand up. 

Add that to the fact that he has made several big saves at key points, of the type that Baz very rarely seems to make, dominates his box much more effectively to relieve pressure, and seems to make the whole defence more confident, and it is very surprising to me that there's even still a debate about who is the better keeper at this level. 

I think it's all academic for next season though, because I think Macca will be released regardless, and Baz will still be injured. 

If we go up, we'll absolutely need a proper PL-level keeper. It doesn't always have to cost loads to get someone perfectly decent at that level. Leno to Fulham for £8m, Sa to Wolves for £6.8m, Brentford picking up Raya for £3m, Johnstone to Palace on a free. There's usually some good value out there if you look for it, and don't try to be too clever. 

Edited May 20 by Midfield_General

[sandwichsaint]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

One thing the last few games have shown is that the narrative that McCarthy can't possibly play in our system because he's not good enough with his feet, is nonsense. 

His first touch isn't as good, so he doesn't like receiving it under pressure, but then it's generally suicidal to pass back to the keeper anyway if they're getting pressed, whoever you've got in goal. 

When Macca has the ball at his feet and he's not under loads of pressure, his ability to pick a pass looks pretty much on a par with Bazunu to me. He's regularly been pinging 40-50 yard passes very accurately to unmarked players in our midfield. Not every single one comes off, but then neither did Bazunu's. This idea that Baz is some irreplaceable, Ederson-level talent with his feet just doesn't stand up. 

Add that to the fact that he has made several big saves at key points, of the type that Baz very rarely seems to make, and it is very surprising to me that there's even still a debate about who is the better keeper. 

I think it's all academic for next season though, because I think Macca will be released regardless, and Baz will still be injured. 

If we go up, we'll absolutely need a proper PL-level keeper. It doesn't always have to cost loads to get someone perfectly decent at that level. Leno to Fulham for £8m, Sa to Wolves for £6.8m, Brentford picking up Raya for £3m, Johnstone to Palace on a free. There's usually some good value out there if you look for it, and don't try to be too clever. 

You had me nodding along with all of that, until I came to those last six words. If we go up then spending 6m-8m on a proven PL-standard keeper will be a much too-obvious thing to do. I'm sure we will be able to find a much 'cleverer' solution.

[Saint Matty 76]

I'm glad McCarthy is going to go out in a positive light, rather than having sat around doing nothing and picking up a monster wage until his contract ran out.

He did a lot of good for the club, and has stepped in well when it mattered, but we have to get better next year.

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

One thing the last few games have shown is that the narrative that McCarthy can't possibly play in our system because he's not good enough with his feet, is nonsense. 

His first touch isn't as good, so he doesn't like receiving it under pressure, but then it's generally suicidal to pass back to the keeper anyway if they're getting pressed, whoever you've got in goal. 

When Macca has the ball at his feet and he's not under loads of pressure, his ability to pick a pass looks pretty much on a par with Bazunu to me. He's regularly been pinging 40-50 yard passes very accurately to unmarked players in our midfield. Not every single one comes off, but then neither did Bazunu's. This idea that Baz is some irreplaceable, Ederson-level talent with his feet just doesn't stand up. 

Add that to the fact that he has made several big saves at key points, of the type that Baz very rarely seems to make, dominates his box much effectively to relieve pressure, and seems to make the whole defence more confident, and it is very surprising to me that there's even still a debate about who is the better keeper at this level. 

I think it's all academic for next season though, because I think Macca will be released regardless, and Baz will still be injured. 

If we go up, we'll absolutely need a proper PL-level keeper. It doesn't always have to cost loads to get someone perfectly decent at that level. Leno to Fulham for £8m, Sa to Wolves for £6.8m, Brentford picking up Raya for £3m, Johnstone to Palace on a free. There's usually some good value out there if you look for it, and don't try to be too clever. 

Surely we've changed our system because McCarthy is in goal and his passing is erratic?

Since he's been in we haven't played anywhere near the same amount of balls back to the keeper or sat with the CB's deep and knocked it about in our area.

Whether someone prefers one over the other is irrelevant, because since he's been injured we haven't played the same as we do when Bazunu is in goal.

McCarthy will surely leave, we'll either get Lis back or sign another keeper and Lumley will be 3rd choice.

[Gloucester Saint]

New keeper coming in as #1. Lumley or Lis as back up, Baz on loan in the new year when fit again to a lower league 1/promotion chasing League 2 side. Bart is probably a good model for Gavin to look to - rebuild in leagues 1 and 2, and back to the Champ in his 30s if he makes significant improvement. The fact he’s a RoI international is irrelevant as they are the worst they’ve been for generations, like Wales under Bobby Gould.

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, The Cat said:

Surely we've changed our system because McCarthy is in goal and his passing is erratic?

Since he's been in we haven't played anywhere near the same amount of balls back to the keeper or sat with the CB's deep and knocked it about in our area.

Whether someone prefers one over the other is irrelevant, because since he's been injured we haven't played the same as we do when Bazunu is in goal.

McCarthy will surely leave, we'll either get Lis back or sign another keeper and Lumley will be 3rd choice.

Yes, you're right, it has had an impact on how we play, though it does still go back to McCarthy plenty, and when it does he is still looking to play out and pass it as much as he can. You can see he's been coached in that respect, and it certainly looks to me like he's significantly improved. 

Quite aside from which one I think is the better goalkeeper, I've generally felt more comfortable watching the way we play when McCarthy's in goal, taking fewer mad risks at the back. 

Out of interest, if you were in charge and they were both fit, who would you pick for the final, with the associated knock-on effect on playing style etc?  

Edited May 18 by Midfield_General

[Badger]

6 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

They’ve already (stupidly imo) committed themselves to lumley. If we stay down I doubt we’ll want to be spending money on a keeper and will instead be looking for a stopgap.  Dependent on wage demands, his interest in stayingand other free agent/loan goalkeepers available mccarthy certainly becomes a possible option. 
 

Have we really extended his contract ?

We seem to have a blind spot in a)identifying GK's , and b)then offering  contracts their performances simply don't warrant, and at times when if anything we should be looking to offload them. 

[Lighthouse]

Don't see the issue with extending Lumley's contract. Our third choice keepers in the past have included Cody Cropper and Tommy Forecast. It's not a position anyone really prioritises (or budgets for).

[The Cat]

41 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Yes, you're right, it has had an impact on how we play, though it does still go back to McCarthy plenty, and when it does he is still looking to play out and pass it as much as he can. You can see he's been coached in that respect, and it certainly looks to me like he's significantly improved. 

Quite aside from which one I think is the better goalkeeper, I've generally felt more comfortable watching the way we play when McCarthy's in goal, taking fewer mad risks at the back. 

Out of interest, if you were in charge and they were both fit, who would you pick for the final, with the associated knock-on effect on playing style etc?  

If Bazunu was fit tomorrow I'd pick McCarthy because he's the man in the hot seat and hasn't done much wrong.

I don't believe that chopping and changing keepers, especially ones with different qualities and styles of game is useful for the team.

He also has way more experience which may be useful in a big occasion.

I agree that McCarthy is better than he was with his feet but he's still way more likely to scuff one or miscontrol than Bazunu.

[SNSUN]

McCarthy has done well in the last few games but he's an experienced former England international keeper so it should be expected. The problem is if we kept him he might soon resort to mistakes and all of a sudden the fans want him out again. He's 35 end of the year and on a high wage - he should go. 

Should Bazunu be our number one though? In the Championship? Yes he's fine, he's young and learning and game time will, hopefully, improve him. In the Prem? Personally I'd be looking at bringing in a new GK with more experience and pedigree but giving Baz cup games and the odd league game here and there.

[Weston Super Saint]

On 18/05/2024 at 12:52, Lighthouse said:

No.

A lot of people don’t rate Baz, okay fine, but this fantasy that McC is somehow leagues above him is false. He played the last 6 games of last season and we looked dreadful, conceding 17 goals. He's acquitted himself well at the end of this season but he’s definitely living in the ‘not Bazunu’ honeymoon period right now, in the eyes of many.

The Stoke goal he conceded was pretty poor and he could have conceded a couple more yesterday, dropping a fairly routine catch and passing the ball straight out to a WBA player. A full season of those kind of mistakes and people’s patience would soon run out.

Although that is glossing over the reason 'why' he played the last 6 games of last season.  The terribly inept defence we had and a manager that was incapable of doing anything about it.

[east-stand-nic]

https://www.themillers.co.uk/news/2024/may/read--johansson-to-finalise-stoke-city-move-upon-re-opening-of-summer-transfer-window-18-05-24/

Is this one gone now?

[gio1saints]

Alex has looked fresh like he should do having not played all season. Mentally fresh, physically fresh.
 

The toll of having to be available to play out from your six yard box - and the price of even a slight mistake being a goal conceded- is not to be underestimated. Alex has had none of that. The young Baz this season - probably too much. 

If I was part of the Saints management team analysing our season- long performance I think I’d put this into the post-mortem. And address it for next season. 

The mental stress of playing the way RM wants his GK to play is higher than that on a standard keeper, imo.  And it lends weight to the physical stress too with higher probability to get weird injuries exactly like what happened with Gav. IMO of course. 
 

And it’s cumulative over the season. The likelihood of the GK having a “ breakdown” of sorts or just a series of “how did that happen “ moments failing to stop a basic shot or passing straight to the opponent must subsequently be higher longer season goes on. 
 

I would address it by greater use of the back up goalies. This season coming up wether it’s EPL or still in the Championship, if we continue to play in the same way then the GK need to be rotated more. IMO of course. 
 

Which then lends itself to the suggestion of joint #1 goalies who week by week get picked like every other player does based on performance - rather than just the one and the other two only play cup. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

Unfortunately I understand that Baz is very well thought of at the club and he’ll almost certainly be our no.1 still whatever the result of Sundays final. Shocking I know.

[Oldandtired]

5 hours ago, SNSUN said:

 Yes he's fine, 

Sorry, no he's not. And as for giving him game time hoping he'll improve you just can't do that these days.

If you're in the championship then you won't make the top, if you're in the PL you will definitely make the bottom.

He needs a season in league one or two just to see if he really has got what it takes to be a top class goalkeeper.

Having watched him over this season unfortunately I'm not sure he has.

[Badger]

3 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Unfortunately I understand that Baz is very well thought of at the club and he’ll almost certainly be our no.1 still whatever the result of Sundays final. Shocking I know.

He may be very well thought of, but there will come a point when even his most fervent supporters at the club accept that he’s conceded a few too many ‘might have done betters’ , and they’ll look to move him out of the spotlight for his own good.

Have to wonder who his main supporters are, and whether Martin, without Wilcox in his ear, will continue to select him regardless.

[The Cat]

5 hours ago, east-stand-nic said:

https://www.themillers.co.uk/news/2024/may/read--johansson-to-finalise-stoke-city-move-upon-re-opening-of-summer-transfer-window-18-05-24/

Is this one gone now?

If he was that good wouldn't there have been a host of better clubs in for him and not just Stoke?

[Chez]

On 18/05/2024 at 13:50, Midfield_General said:

One thing the last few games have shown is that the narrative that McCarthy can't possibly play in our system because he's not good enough with his feet, is nonsense. 

His first touch isn't as good, so he doesn't like receiving it under pressure, but then it's generally suicidal to pass back to the keeper anyway if they're getting pressed, whoever you've got in goal. 

When Macca has the ball at his feet and he's not under loads of pressure, his ability to pick a pass looks pretty much on a par with Bazunu to me. He's regularly been pinging 40-50 yard passes very accurately to unmarked players in our midfield. Not every single one comes off, but then neither did Bazunu's. This idea that Baz is some irreplaceable, Ederson-level talent with his feet just doesn't stand up. 

Add that to the fact that he has made several big saves at key points, of the type that Baz very rarely seems to make, dominates his box much more effectively to relieve pressure, and seems to make the whole defence more confident, and it is very surprising to me that there's even still a debate about who is the better keeper at this level. 

I think it's all academic for next season though, because I think Macca will be released regardless, and Baz will still be injured. 

If we go up, we'll absolutely need a proper PL-level keeper. It doesn't always have to cost loads to get someone perfectly decent at that level. Leno to Fulham for £8m, Sa to Wolves for £6.8m, Brentford picking up Raya for £3m, Johnstone to Palace on a free. There's usually some good value out there if you look for it, and don't try to be too clever. 

I agree that Macca's longer passes, especially those out wide, have been as good, if not better than Baz's. I would question his decision-making on the shorter stuff, but not sure Baz is perfect in that area either. Agree also that it's academic. Macca is off. In his eyes he will feel he has been treated pretty shabbly this season. I know money talks, so if we offer him a better deal than anyone else he might stay, but it feels like a natural parting of ways is inevitable. As for his replacement, I doubt we will sign one unless we get promoted, but if we do, then who is doing the scouting, because it hasn't exactly been great.

[Badger]

14 minutes ago, Chez said:

 As for his replacement, I doubt we will sign one unless we get promoted, but if we do, then who is doing the scouting, because it hasn't exactly been great.

Darren Mowbray has had nearly twelve months scouting. He’s probably got a massive list of potential targets, critical thing is who is the decision maker, and who will negotiate the deals ? 

[Wade Garrett]

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Alex has looked fresh like he should do having not played all season. Mentally fresh, physically fresh.
 

The toll of having to be available to play out from your six yard box - and the price of even a slight mistake being a goal conceded- is not to be underestimated. Alex has had none of that. The young Baz this season - probably too much. 

If I was part of the Saints management team analysing our season- long performance I think I’d put this into the post-mortem. And address it for next season. 

The mental stress of playing the way RM wants his GK to play is higher than that on a standard keeper, imo.  And it lends weight to the physical stress too with higher probability to get weird injuries exactly like what happened with Gav. IMO of course. 
 

And it’s cumulative over the season. The likelihood of the GK having a “ breakdown” of sorts or just a series of “how did that happen “ moments failing to stop a basic shot or passing straight to the opponent must subsequently be higher longer season goes on. 
 

I would address it by greater use of the back up goalies. This season coming up wether it’s EPL or still in the Championship, if we continue to play in the same way then the GK need to be rotated more. IMO of course. 
 

Which then lends itself to the suggestion of joint #1 goalies who week by week get picked like every other player does based on performance - rather than just the one and the other two only play cup. 

Disagree with every point you make!  

[Whitey Grandad]

21 minutes ago, Chez said:

I agree that Macca's longer passes, especially those out wide, have been as good, if not better than Baz's. I would question his decision-making on the shorter stuff, but not sure Baz is perfect in that area either. Agree also that it's academic. Macca is off. In his eyes he will feel he has been treated pretty shabbly this season. I know money talks, so if we offer him a better deal than anyone else he might stay, but it feels like a natural parting of ways is inevitable. As for his replacement, I doubt we will sign one unless we get promoted, but if we do, then who is doing the scouting, because it hasn't exactly been great.

Really? There was one on Friday that went straight into the crowd at the half way line.