WBA 0-0 Saints - SF 1st Leg Match Thread

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

FWIW :  most of you incredulous or even some outraged (😂) about my views on penalty practice and especially on my wanting to hear WBA are practising pens but not wanting to hear that from Saints are not really getting my point. 

Good on you for arguing and expanding on your points in a polite and civil way. You're right that these things can be discussed without it degenerating into abuse, so thanks for not calling anyone a sad fuck this time. 

However, this 

On 07/05/2024 at 04:52, gio1saints said:

The squad diligently “practising penalties” ahead of such matches cos it’s helpful in the event of a penalty shootout is one of the most popular dog whistle football myths going. 

The team that lets it be known it is  “practising penalties” are psychologically conditioning themselves NOT TO WIN in normal time. 

If I hear that the opposition are “practising penalties” I’m delighted. It’s a sign of fear and weakness. 

I absolutely DO NOT want to have RM tell us the team are practising practising penalties. 

And this 

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

Im not really against practising pens. 😁

do seem to be rather contradictory points.

And a 'dog whistle' is defined as 'a subtly aimed political message which is intended for, and can only be understood by, a particular demographic group', so I'm not entirely sure what that's got to do with anything, unless you consider the topic of whether Ryan Manning should practice spot-kicks to be a particularly inflammatory potential vote-swinger in the upcoming election. 

Anyway, I think I'm still with the German national team on this one. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

FWIW :  most of you incredulous or even some outraged (😂) about my views on penalty practice and especially on my wanting to hear WBA are practising pens but not wanting to hear that from Saints are not really getting my point. 
 

Practising can turn something from explicit learning ( you learn how to take a corner ) to implicit learning ( your body instinctively knows what shape to make what muscle fibres to activate in what order to perform the corner kick). 
Practise is great for that. 

In technical terms,  for those who are interested ( put this down now if you hate tech stuff) I am more interested in the emotional and psychological conditioning effect of preparing for pens. I’m sure most of you have experienced that sensation where you know you must or must not do something and focus so hard on not doing it ( let’s say, not hit the ball straight at the keeper weakly in a penalty shootout) that - inevitably- you end up doing it.

Focusing so hard on penalties when we do not want penalties may have the unfortunate side effect of making penalties happen.  Penalties only happen if you don’t beat your opponent in normal time. Saints are better than WBA. We should be beating them over two matches in normal time. I do not want to encourage anything that undermines that conviction. 

Even more interestingly for me though is another reason why training for penalties to me is not all that useful : 

Perception of what’s going on in a players head during a match via his senses ( sight sound touch etc) reach the thalamus first and from there to the neocortex and thence the info is processed and hey presto action occurs. This happens super fast because of both explicit and implicit learning. 
However there is an even faster pathway that goes straight to something called the Amygdala which screens the infor for signs of DANGER. It does this milliseconds fractions faster than the other pathway because safety is hardwired into us evolutionarily. 

When Ryan Manning steps up for his penalty undoubtedly his implicit and explicit learning will kick in - because he has “ practised penalties” so he will choose a spot and not change his mind snd his body will do all the right things in the right order to execute the shot. Except that the Amygdala has got there milliseconds faster than the training and told him this is a shit scary situation and to gtf out of there. It’s what turns players legs to jelly in shootouts. 
Certain players can handle it, most cannot. Smashing the crap out the ball is the typical response of some players to that fear - but many just go feeble despite “practise”. 
 

It’s not the penalty kick that they should be practising. It’s the emotional response to extremely high stress situations. And sadly that’s virtually impossible to recreate in this instance - a £500mil pound rest of your career success or failure shot at goal from the penalty spot - in Front of 100 million worldwide viewers plus your mum dad wife and kids teammates. Your whole life in one kick. Doing it at Staplewood for £100 bets with your mates is not the same. Cannot be. Practise getting your head right much more important. Use the knowledge that WBA are scared they cannot win and ARE practising as your incentive to win in normal play.

Im not really against practising pens. But honestly, it’s not really all that much use to the players- it’s more for some fans reassurance than anything else. No need to get outraged at me or shout personal abuse. Although of course in doing so you are exactly showing what im explaining - emotional responses kick in faster than intellectual. Despite age and maturity and no doubt plenty of practise the emo response can still make you look like a thick foul mouthed thug when you probably are not. 😁

In short, it’s the difference between William Tell shooting an apple off his son’s head or one placed on the top of a stick.

I have often thought about the difference between walking across a 4 inch beam that’s 50 feet off the ground and one that’s only two inches off the floor. It’s all in the mind.

[Saint_Jonny]

Interesting look at the Championship play offs on the "Not the top 20" podcast. 

Came away from it feeling a fare bit less confident! 

Keen to rewatch some of the previous two ties against the baggies. From what I remember they were both tight games that could have gone the other way. 

[coalman]

I got a kitten a week ago. Already she's caused Lando Norris to win his first F1 race. Saints winning the playoffs seems well within her capablities.

[Chez]

51 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Interesting look at the Championship play offs on the "Not the top 20" podcast. 

Came away from it feeling a fare bit less confident! 

Keen to rewatch some of the previous two ties against the baggies. From what I remember they were both tight games that could have gone the other way. 

WBA deserved a draw at SMS. We were excellent first half, totally dominated and deserve to be leading. Second half was all them and they had a couple of great chances in addition to their goal. We scored on the breakaway, against the run of play. Could easily have gone the other way. 

 

[Wade Garrett]

10 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Was that in 5 a side with 6ft wide goals?

No full-size goals when I was just 11 years old!

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

No full-size goals when I was just 11 years old!

👍

[captainchris]

18 hours ago, chownie20 said:

Its not a cup - its an extension of the league, so all loanees should be fine.

Whoosh 

[Chris cooper]

20 hours ago, bender said:

I know it's tempting fate but does anyone know what time the final kicks off at should we get there.  I know it's 26/5 but I cant find what time it is.  Still says TBA on https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13120822/efl-play-offs-fixtures-dates-and-schedule-for-championship-league-one-and-league-two

Last season was 4:45pm 

[CB Fry]

25 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

Last season was 4:45pm 

That was a Saturday not a Sunday though.

The equivalent Sunday game (league 2 final) was half one. Basically anyone's guess.

[Pamplemousse]

It'll be decided by the police once they know the teams. Obviously there aren't any concerns around rivalries but they'll probably be cautious around Leeds.

Sky also have a Scottish play-off game scheduled that day. So if I was to guess, I'd say that would be the early game and the final would be the Sunday tea time game. But basically it's down to what Sky want and if the police are happy.

[bpsaint]

Home leg almost sold out already, fingers crossed we’ve got plenty to sing about by then and aren’t 3-0 down from the first game.

Different competition I know but the second leg of the JPT semi at home was rocking.

[Dr Who?]

Cannot wait for this one. Brushed off the retro top for the Hawthorns on Sunday.
 

Edited May 9 by Dr Who?

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

26 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Home leg almost sold out already, fingers crossed we’ve got plenty to sing about by then and aren’t 3-0 down from the first game.

Different competition I know but the second leg of the JPT semi at home was rocking.

Yeah, was always going to sell quick and that was a good atmosphere for the JPT, helped by just about the entire ground being Saints, I think MK had little more than 100 fans tucked up in the corner.

The first leg will be raucous, that's a good ground for noise when they're up for it. Hawthorns has always been a top away day and one of my favourite grounds since I started going away mid-seventies. Really envied that they had two cracking 'ends', big banks of covered terracing like we never had at the Dell. We've regularly taken good numbers, 10,000 in the FA Cup in '76, would have taken a lot more for this playoff if the space was available.

[Saint86]

18 hours ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Interesting look at the Championship play offs on the "Not the top 20" podcast. 

Came away from it feeling a fare bit less confident! 

Keen to rewatch some of the previous two ties against the baggies. From what I remember they were both tight games that could have gone the other way. 

Listened to it earlier. One of them had a raging hard on Calderon, and basically used that to brush away any argument/evidence that Saints were going to win - Instead Calderon is the best manager in the championship (probably one of the best in the country in that guy's eyes), and we're actually the perfect team/manager for him to face off and showcase his tactical mastery against - i.e. he will easily be able to tactically outmanoeuvre Martin apparently.... But then fast forward a bit, and same podcast.... Saints beat West Brom twice this year and Martin is 4wins from 4 against Calderon when you count Swansea (a worse side) as well 😄.... The same guy then proceeds to double down and state WBA will knock us and Leeds out with ease to get promoted. 😰

Edited May 9 by Saint86

[Saint_Jonny]

17 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Listened to it earlier. One of them had a raging hard on Calderon, and basically used that to brush away any argument/evidence that Saints were going to win - Instead Calderon is the best manager in the championship (probably one of the best in the country in that guy's eyes), and we're actually the perfect team/manager for him to face off and showcase his tactical mastery against - i.e. he will easily be able to tactically outmanoeuvre Martin apparently.... But then fast forward a bit, and same podcast.... Saints beat West Brom twice this year and Martin is 4wins from 4 against Calderon when you count Swansea (a worse side) as well 😄.... The same guy then proceeds to double down and state WBA will knock us and Leeds out with ease to get promoted. 😰

Yea it was a bit surprising to here the love-in for the baggies manager given his record against Saints/Martin - the analysis was interesting however and did highlight how close our games against them have been this season. I watched the extended highlights of both games over my lunchbreak today and West Brom carry a big threat on the counter and at set pieces, we were somewhat lucky to get away with it in the home game, less so at The Hawthorns were I thought we were good value for the win.

Edited May 9 by Saint_Jonny

[WALK DMC]

Have people received their tickets for the away leg yet ?   Nothing has arrived yet for us. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

Will both semi legs be televised?

[The Cat]

15 minutes ago, WALK DMC said:

Have people received their tickets for the away leg yet ?   Nothing has arrived yet for us. 

Mine came yesterday 

[The Cat]

10 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Will both semi legs be televised?

They televised the L2 play off semis so yes, of course they will be

[S-Clarke]

17 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Will both semi legs be televised?

Sky Sports broadcast every single playoff game from all leagues, even the non-league. There will be streams for them if people can't make it.

[Saint In Cornwall]

25 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Mine came yesterday 

 

Mine too 😀

Edited May 9 by Saint In Cornwall

[DizzyRum]

5 hours ago, Dr Who? said:

Cannot wait for this one. Brushed off the retro top for the Hawthorns on Sunday. Me, the boy, but maybe not the wife as something has come up, she is gutted. 
 

Does that mean you have a spare ticket?

If so, let me know!

[Chris cooper]

9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

That was a Saturday not a Sunday though.

The equivalent Sunday game (league 2 final) was half one. Basically anyone's guess.

Hopefully we get the west side of Wembley if we get there ..

we will be then allocated all the pubs in that region including the green man hotel pub .. decent juicer & has huge garden … don’t know how this determined tho ? Anyone know ? 

[HedgeEnder]

4 hours ago, WALK DMC said:

Have people received their tickets for the away leg yet ?   Nothing has arrived yet for us. 

Ours came yesterday 

[Dr Who?]

6 hours ago, DizzyRum said:

Does that mean you have a spare ticket?

If so, let me know!

I did and another family member has taken it. 😊 

Edited May 9 by Dr Who?

[Ted Bates Statue]

Did anyone manage to buy tickets for the home leg today on general sale? I was on the website from 9:30 and absolutely nothing came up for me, but apparently they only sold out over an hour later.

[LGTL]

4 hours ago, Chris cooper said:

Hopefully we get the west side of Wembley if we get there ..

we will be then allocated all the pubs in that region including the green man hotel pub .. decent juicer & has huge garden … don’t know how this determined tho ? Anyone know ? 

All based on access back to the stations and where in the country most fans are heading. Imagine we’d be allocated the West side again, same as the EFL Final and FA Cup semi. 

[JRM]

1 hour ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Did anyone manage to buy tickets for the home leg today on general sale? I was on the website from 9:30 and absolutely nothing came up for me, but apparently they only sold out over an hour later.

It wasn't complete general sale, needed purchase history from last few seasons and were very few left as most had gone to members and season ticket holders. 

WBA quickly sold their 2000 allocation, makes you wonder how many we could get for a game like this? Easily 40k I reckon. 

[Ted Bates Statue]

5 minutes ago, JRM said:

It wasn't complete general sale, needed purchase history from last few seasons and were very few left as most had gone to members and season ticket holders. 

WBA quickly sold their 2000 allocation, makes you wonder how many we could get for a game like this? Easily 40k I reckon. 

Obviously I didn't press F5 in the correct manner.

Now where are those stadium expansion plans? We definitely have the catchment area to handle it.

[saintstowin]

27 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Obviously I didn't press F5 in the correct manner.

Now where are those stadium expansion plans? We definitely have the catchment area to handle it.

I ended up phoning at 930 because the site showed no tickets, but if I then clicked on match tickets from that page it let me in, however it greyed out my friends/family so I couldn't link a ticket to them! Odd. Yet yesterday it seemed to be willing to sell me 1 ticket even though I'm not a member. I didn't go through with that purchase as I wanted more than one. Streamlined process! Helpful ticket office person though. 

Good luck getting one by other means if you're still looking. 

[Anthony]

1 hour ago, saintstowin said:

I ended up phoning at 930 because the site showed no tickets, but if I then clicked on match tickets from that page it let me in, however it greyed out my friends/family so I couldn't link a ticket to them! Odd. Yet yesterday it seemed to be willing to sell me 1 ticket even though I'm not a member. I didn't go through with that purchase as I wanted more than one. Streamlined process! Helpful ticket office person though. 

Good luck getting one by other means if you're still looking. 

I guess I was kind of lucky then. I got an email to alert me, but didn't think I stood much chance as I (due to kids football and work) have not been to any games at all this season. Managed to get 2 tickets for the second leg, one for me and one for my 8 year old, and it seemed quite effortless, as I say I guess I was lucky.

Getting a cheap hotel room was more difficult though, got one, but it is 5 miles away from central.

 

Once my 8 year old got home form school, I was really excited to tell him that I managed to get us tickets. His first question was 'Is it in the Family Stand again', and the look of disappointment when I said 'Yes'. Where possible, I take him to away games, and although he can hardly see the pitch, he loves the atmosphere.

 

I though, could not be more happier. If, and it's a big if, we get to Wembley, I just wish I can get tickets for Wembley for my other kids, wife and me. 

[JRM]

8 hours ago, Anthony said:

I guess I was kind of lucky then. I got an email to alert me, but didn't think I stood much chance as I (due to kids football and work) have not been to any games at all this season. Managed to get 2 tickets for the second leg, one for me and one for my 8 year old, and it seemed quite effortless, as I say I guess I was lucky.

Getting a cheap hotel room was more difficult though, got one, but it is 5 miles away from central.

 

Once my 8 year old got home form school, I was really excited to tell him that I managed to get us tickets. His first question was 'Is it in the Family Stand again', and the look of disappointment when I said 'Yes'. Where possible, I take him to away games, and although he can hardly see the pitch, he loves the atmosphere.

 

I though, could not be more happier. If, and it's a big if, we get to Wembley, I just wish I can get tickets for Wembley for my other kids, wife and me. 

I reckon the family stand will be a bit livelier than normal for this one , 8pm Friday night game as long as the boys do the business on the pitch is perfect for a loud atmosphere 

[Chris cooper]

11 hours ago, LGTL said:

All based on access back to the stations and where in the country most fans are heading. Imagine we’d be allocated the West side again, same as the EFL Final and FA Cup semi. 

Makes sense 👍🏻

just seen Oxford have been allocated west side so yeah 👍🏻 logistics .. cheers LGTL

[Charlie Wayman]

On 08/05/2024 at 12:45, Whitey Grandad said:

In short, it’s the difference between William Tell shooting an apple off his son’s head or one placed on the top of a stick.

I have often thought about the difference between walking across a 4 inch beam that’s 50 feet off the ground and one that’s only two inches off the floor. It’s all in the mind.

The risks are somewhat higher though

[beatlesaint]

Having just seen the comments from RM about Che Adams I'm gonna say he wont be involved Sunday. Just using the Flynn Downes injury updates as a guide !

[Dusic]

Sounds like bench at best for Adams which is a massive blow.

Imagine Arma up top with Fraser and Brooks either side which probably means will be a back four.

[Whitey Grandad]

33 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The risks are somewhat higher though

Yes, but that’s the point. The task is the same but the mind starts to get involved.

[Wade Garrett]

Play Loch Ness up front if Che is injured and keep the same shape as the Leeds game.

 

[Chez]

16 hours ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Did anyone manage to buy tickets for the home leg today on general sale? I was on the website from 9:30 and absolutely nothing came up for me, but apparently they only sold out over an hour later.

tried and failed. Bit disappointed not to be able to go to the home game, but such is life.

[Dellyears]

On 05/05/2024 at 16:56, The Cat said:

Your posts just come across as the text equivalent of white noise now. 

Where can I find the match on TV? I know it must be on some channel 

[richie]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

tried and failed. Bit disappointed not to be able to go to the home game, but such is life.

I did yes. I buy a disabled ticket/enabler ticket for my 17 yo son. Annoyingly you can only buy disabled tickets over the phone. I went online about 09.10 as I know club has a habit of putting them up early and the tickets were on sale even though published time was 09.30. Phone lines didn't open till 09.30 which meant loads of seats/blocks were sold by the time I got through on the phone at 09.40. Lots of tickets were in baskets lady on the phone said. 

I do find it a pain I have to phone up but people have abused the system when the club has made disabled/enabler tickets available online.

[richie]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

tried and failed. Bit disappointed not to be able to go to the home game, but such is life.

 

18 hours ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Did anyone manage to buy tickets for the home leg today on general sale? I was on the website from 9:30 and absolutely nothing came up for me, but apparently they only sold out over an hour later.

I did yes. I buy a disabled ticket/enabler ticket for my 17 yo son. Annoyingly you can only buy disabled tickets over the phone. I went online about 09.10 as I know club has a habit of putting them up early and the tickets were on sale even though published time was 09.30. Phone lines didn't open till 09.30 which meant loads of seats/blocks were sold by the time I got through on the phone at 09.40. Lots of tickets were in baskets lady on the phone said. 

I do find it a pain I have to phone up but people have abused the system when the club has made disabled/enabler tickets available online.

[Miltonaggro]

Imagine if this was comfortable, allowing us to enjoy the second leg with a degree of confidence...

I'm going to buy into this scenario and advise of a 0-2 away win to Saints, followed by Baggies properly put to the sword at St Marys.

I think that our 'better players' really want to be in the PL and are about to earn their corn.

 

[manji]

2 hours ago, Dellyears said:

Where can I find the match on TV? I know it must be on some channel 

SKY both legs.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Che evidently has an injury. AA absolutely cannot play no9. People have a memory of Mara playing quite well at West Brom, but that was because everyone kept chanting his name with that Allez, Allez song. He should be nowhere near the team. So do we chance Stewart? Sule played ok against Leeds. Think I would prefer Sule.

[notnowcato]

Mara and Armstrong up top, if Che is unable to start. 

[Mixedkebab]

9 hours ago, JRM said:

I reckon the family stand will be a bit livelier than normal for this one , 8pm Friday night game as long as the boys do the business on the pitch is perfect for a loud atmosphere 

What percentage will go on the pitch if we go through ? Not as many as v Cov but maybe as many as v Burnley when we went down 

Edited May 10 by Mixedkebab

[lambtiss]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Mara and Armstrong up top, if Che is unable to start. I

I really hope Mara is nowhere near the starting 11. He has no ability to hold the ball up, has no speed and is not a threat in front of goal. Oh, and isn’t good in the air. 

He also lounges around the pitch as though he was playing knock about down the local rec. In a crucial match in front of hostile West Brom Fans he would be completely useless in my opinion.

[Pamplemousse]

If Adams isn't fit then I'd play Mara and give Stewart the final 20. It would be a blow but I'd rather Adams was fully fit for the second leg/potential final.