Leeds 1-2 Southampton - Match Thread

[Lighthouse]

21 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

And if we had beaten Ipswich twice we would have finished second. 

Morale of story, don't lose six pointers!

We’re unbeaten against the rest of the playoff sides, with 14 points from six games. Even if you include Ipswich, 14 from 8 would be 81 points extrapolated over a full season, that’s a solid playoff points total by itself.

[The Kraken]

41 minutes ago, benjii said:

You need to look at what the team in second needed to finish second. The highest there is 89 (on GD). 88 would have been enough in 8 of the 10 seasons.

The third placed team never got 90, so is always enough for top 2.

Not this again 

You need to look at what a normal team would score to finish second. Then you need to score more points than that. Then you’ll finish…….second.

if you look at scoring more than the team who finish third, you’ll probably arrive at a total that will guarantee you’ll finish third.

 

Edited May 4 by The Kraken

[CB Fry]

49 minutes ago, benjii said:

You need to look at what the team in second needed to finish second. The highest there is 89 (on GD). 88 would have been enough in 8 of the 10 seasons.

The third placed team never got 90, so is always enough for top 2.

Always a stupid way of looking at it.

88 is not enough in those seasons because there's a team there on 90 points, 93, 89, 92 whatever. 88 means third in all those seasons.

What is the rationale to conveniently remove the team in second and replace them with a team on fewer points? Remove the team in third with a team on 88 points and what do you know, still third. Because another team is on 90 points.

A team needs to get what the team in the position you are aiming for gets, not aim for a smidge more than the team one place below got.

 

Edited May 4 by CB Fry

[Cabrone]

WBA is probably the team I wanted in the playoffs. As long as we don't bottle it I fancy our chances. Reckon Norwich will beat Leeds, they look completely deflated.

[JRM]

20 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

WBA is probably the team I wanted in the playoffs. As long as we don't bottle it I fancy our chances. Reckon Norwich will beat Leeds, they look completely deflated.

If the championship has taught us anything in the last few weeks is its completely unpredictable,  honestly no idea how these games will go but if I'd be more inclined to think Leeds will bounce back 

[The Kraken]

Just now, JRM said:

If the championship has taught us anything in the last few weeks is its completely unpredictable,  honestly no idea how these games will go but if I'd be more inclined to think Leeds will bounce back 

Yeah on paper I think I prefer the Norwich draw. But it’s the playoffs, anything can happen. I would neither be surprised if we won the whole thing or if we crashed out in the semis. 4 decent teams at this level going at it.

[Convict Colony]

Congrats saints on making 87pts, massive amount of points, unlucky this year was a crazy year.

[S-Clarke]

That was an enjoyable game, can't say I expected that, but we did play well. I find it hard to read too much into it though given the dead-rubber nature of the game - we played without any pressure or nerves and it showed. The playoffs will be a different kettle of fish.

This was, I reckon, the first game we've had this season with less of the ball - a back 5, sitting deep and breaking in transition (which is what we did well) were the keys to this match, somewhat of our kryptonite in recent games - we turned it on the head today.

Leeds were, very, very, very flat though - they won't be that bad in the playoffs, I still think they'll have way too much for Norwich.

Bring on the net 2 and let's see where we are. The games will be different, nothing like the league games, so in my eyes the 'unbeaten' stats mean zilch - WBA will be very tight and hard to breakdown, I would happily take a draw in the away leg and finish it at home.

Overall it's games like today which just add to my frustration! Blackburn away, Boro home, Rotherham home - it could have been so different!

[Pamplemousse]

58 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

WBA is probably the team I wanted in the playoffs. As long as we don't bottle it I fancy our chances. Reckon Norwich will beat Leeds, they look completely deflated.

Yup. Norwich will be absolutely determined to get promoted to not let their rivals get one over them in that respect.

I'd fancy our chances in the final against Leeds rather than Norwich 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

"It wasn't negative to start with so many defensive players on the pitch. They were brave"

Was getting a little concerned RM was losing his cliches. He's back. We're back. Bring on West Brom!

 

[Kenilworthy]

I have to say that the £47 ticket price and seeing the home fans leaving well before the end was actually good value!

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Cabrone said:

WBA is probably the team I wanted in the playoffs. As long as we don't bottle it I fancy our chances. Reckon Norwich will beat Leeds, they look completely deflated.

Agree with this, we took WBA apart on their patch earlier this year.

We do have the ability to fuck it up against anyone though so it’s hard to get your hopes up.

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

Agree with this, we took WBA apart on their patch earlier this year.

We do have the ability to fuck it up against anyone though so it’s hard to get your hopes up.

People always say this as if it's somehow unique to Saints but it's nonsense. Even Leicester lost to QPR and Plymouth.

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

People always say this as if it's somehow unique to Saints but it's nonsense. Even Leicester lost to QPR and Plymouth.

I never said it was unique to us. We just seem to be able to fuck up games we should win easily, I’m sure many other teams do as well.

[Chez]

30 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I never said it was unique to us. We just seem to be able to fuck up games we should win easily, I’m sure many other teams do as well.

that's the beauty of football. shit teams can beat good teams every now and then.

[The Kraken]

2 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Congrats saints on making 87pts, massive amount of points, unlucky this year was a crazy year.

It was a little bit unlucky that there were 4 sides gunning for it. But as we’ve posted on this and other threads, and looking at the other points totals of recent years, 87 points fails to get you automatic Championship promotion in 9 of the past 10 years.

Edited May 4 by The Kraken

[The Cat]

Didn't watch the game because I've been at an all day music festival in town. My main thought is that I'm really pleased for the fans who made a long trip for a largely irrelevant game and saw us win. Fair play to everyone who went.

[The Kraken]

34 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I never said it was unique to us. We just seem to be able to fuck up games we should win easily, I’m sure many other teams do as well.

Brilliant insight. All teams lose against teams they shouldn’t.

Mind. Blown.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

that's the beauty of football. shit teams can beat good teams every now and then.

Yeah, and we seem to be particularly good at shooting our selves in the foot.

[warsash saint]

Some random thoughts after my trip to Yorkshire

• What ever division we are in next season, Downes NEEDS to be purchased
• Formation today suited us
• Elland Road is a shit hole
• Saints fans were great today ... great numbers for a 500 mile round trip for a 'nothing' game
• Never knew it was possible to put a 50 mile speed limit for the near WHOLE stretch of the M1 🤬

[Convict Colony]

10 hours ago, The Kraken said:

It was a little bit unlucky that there were 4 sides gunning for it. But as we’ve posted on this and other threads, and looking at the other points totals of recent years, 87 points fails to get you automatic Championship promotion in 9 of the past 10 years.

True but great effort to get us back in contention after 4 straight losses, such is life of a saints fan.

[david in sweden]

Firstly, I  will admit that Whitey Grandad got right.  His suggestion was to play the best we have - despite the prospect of another slaughter.

Together with dozens more  on here I had the thought to "play it safe " and not take chances with our best players - in case of injury.   WRONG !

It was an entertaining game that we deserved to win.     What a difference from the last three miserable games which were beyond criticism. 

 

After Leeds dominance in the first 15 minutes, we really turned it on and in hindsight it was one of the best performances I've watched this season. 

The midfield trio took control and - even without Stuart A. - we looked a cut above Leeds' aggressive opposition.  Great goals from Adam. A and Smallbone.

Although Alex McCarthy didn't have a lot to do, he was in the right place at key moments and made a couple of top class saves. 

Everyone put in a shift and if we can hold this sort of performance for the (potential) three games ahead , we might still see ourselves back in the Prem.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

16 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Firstly, I  will admit that Whitey Grandad got right.  His suggestion was to play the best we have - despite the prospect of another slaughter.

Together with dozens more  on here I had the thought to "play it safe " and not take chances with our best players - in case of injury.   WRONG !

It was an entertaining game that we deserved to win.     What a difference from the last three miserable games which were beyond criticism. 

 

After Leeds dominance in the first 15 minutes, we really turned it on and in hindsight it was one of the best performances I've watched this season. 

The midfield trio took control and - even without Stuart A. - we looked a cut above Leeds' aggressive opposition.  Great goals from Adam. A and Smallbone.

Although Alex McCarthy didn't have a lot to do, he was in the right place at key moments and made a couple of top class saves. 

Everyone put in a shift and if we can hold this sort of performance for the (potential) three games ahead , we might still see ourselves back in the Prem.

 

Thanks, that’s very gracious of you ☺️

[Totton Saint]

13 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

That was an enjoyable game, can't say I expected that, but we did play well. I find it hard to read too much into it though given the dead-rubber nature of the game - we played without any pressure or nerves and it showed. The playoffs will be a different kettle of fish.

This was, I reckon, the first game we've had this season with less of the ball - a back 5, sitting deep and breaking in transition (which is what we did well) were the keys to this match, somewhat of our kryptonite in recent games - we turned it on the head today.

Leeds were, very, very, very flat though - they won't be that bad in the playoffs, I still think they'll have way too much for Norwich.

Bring on the net 2 and let's see where we are. The games will be different, nothing like the league games, so in my eyes the 'unbeaten' stats mean zilch - WBA will be very tight and hard to breakdown, I would happily take a draw in the away leg and finish it at home.

Overall it's games like today which just add to my frustration! Blackburn away, Boro home, Rotherham home - it could have been so different!

It may have been a dead rubber match but that did not stop KWP chasing a seemingly lost cause chasing down the ball down to stop it going over the goal line., then centering for AA to score. No SKY curse this time.!!

 

[sfc4prem]

Just now, Totton Saint said:

It may have been a dead rubber match but that did not stop KWP chasing a seemingly lost cause chasing down the ball down to stop it going over the goal line., then centering for AA to score. No SKY curse this time.!!

 

If the bskyb curse still exists, we're fucked for the next three games!

[Totton Saint]

Good opportunity to show our class to a world wide viewers

[Wade Garrett]

49 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Firstly, I  will admit that Whitey Grandad got right.  His suggestion was to play the best we have - despite the prospect of another slaughter.

Together with dozens more  on here I had the thought to "play it safe " and not take chances with our best players - in case of injury.   WRONG !

It was an entertaining game that we deserved to win.     What a difference from the last three miserable games which were beyond criticism. 

 

After Leeds dominance in the first 15 minutes, we really turned it on and in hindsight it was one of the best performances I've watched this season. 

The midfield trio took control and - even without Stuart A. - we looked a cut above Leeds' aggressive opposition.  Great goals from Adam. A and Smallbone.

Although Alex McCarthy didn't have a lot to do, he was in the right place at key moments and made a couple of top class saves. 

Everyone put in a shift and if we can hold this sort of performance for the (potential) three games ahead , we might still see ourselves back in the Prem.

 

My thoughts were the same as yours.  Like you, I’m delighted to have been proved wrong.

I wonder if Russell took the squad out for that Chinese?

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

10 hours ago, warsash saint said:

Some random thoughts after my trip to Yorkshire

• What ever division we are in next season, Downes NEEDS to be purchased
• Formation today suited us
• Elland Road is a shit hole
• Saints fans were great today ... great numbers for a 500 mile round trip for a 'nothing' game
• Never knew it was possible to put a 50 mile speed limit for the near WHOLE stretch of the M1 🤬

We were given 2,000 tickets, we sold 2,000 tickets, just watched the ITV highlights and the commentator says "1500 Saints fans", where does he get that from? At least the TV cameras never picked out a couple of old grannies to represent our support this time.

Great unexpected result though, nice for a playoff final push.

Edited May 5 by TheAlehouseBrawlers

[Saint Billy]

It is the pressure game mindset that is a concern. No pressure at Leeds and it showed, but these playoff games will be a different ball game and the side that's best at holding its nerve will be the one that goes up. RM has got some work to do 

[S-Clarke]

7 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

It is the pressure game mindset that is a concern. No pressure at Leeds and it showed, but these playoff games will be a different ball game and the side that's best at holding its nerve will be the one that goes up. RM has got some work to do 

This is the chink that will always be in the back of my mind, like you say we're fine in the games that don't matter. When we were chasing down Ipswich and Leicester, 16 or so points behind, there was no pressure going into Blackburn or Swansea at home, no expectations...just win the game and see what happens. As we got closer you could tell the weight got bigger on their shoulders, and then we just wilted when we got to 2nd and were being chased rather than the 'chaser' - and that was the end of that!

The game against Ipswich at their place was great for 60 mins, one of our best performances of the season up until that point - but the pressure told, they went into their shells, retreated and ultimately couldn't resist the Ipswich mentality which beat ours - it wasn't quality which done for us that day, it was the mentality and how well we both coped with the pressure.

Playoffs are more pressure than either of those scenarios above and that makes me nervous. Yesterday was great and all, but we've shown we can do this when the expectation is low and the pressure is off - it's when we're needed to do something that we fall flat. The next 2, and then hopefully the third, is the opportunity to rid us all of those doubts.

Edited May 5 by S-Clarke

[trousers]

2 hours ago, david in sweden said:

Firstly, I  will admit that Whitey Grandad got right.  His suggestion was to play the best we have - despite the prospect of another slaughter.

Together with dozens more  on here I had the thought to "play it safe " and not take chances with our best players - in case of injury.   WRONG !

There was nothing "wrong" with advocating a different approach.

Yes, the game panned out well with the 'play a strong 11' option, but it's non-sequitur territory to then intimate that it couldn't have equally turned out ok with the 'rest our key players' approach.

Humans often seem obsessed with labelling predictions and/or opinions as "right" or "wrong", usually with the benefit of hindsight. 

Those advocating a different approach were simply that.... Different.... They weren't "wrong"... 

Edited May 5 by trousers

[Galway saint]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

This is the chink that will always be in the back of my mind, like you say we're fine in the games that don't matter. When we were chasing down Ipswich and Leicester, 16 or so points behind, there was no pressure going into Blackburn or Swansea at home, no expectations...just win the game and see what happens. As we got closer you could tell the weight got bigger on their shoulders, and then we just wilted when we got to 2nd and were being chased rather than the 'chaser' - and that was the end of that!

The game against Ipswich at their place was great for 60 mins, one of our best performances of the season up until that point - but the pressure told, they went into their shells, retreated and ultimately couldn't resist the Ipswich mentality which beat ours - it wasn't quality which done for us that day, it was the mentality and how well we both coped with the pressure.

Playoffs are more pressure than either of those scenarios above and that makes me nervous. Yesterday was great and all, but we've shown we can do this when the expectation is low and the pressure is off - it's when we're needed to do something that we fall flat. The next 2, and then hopefully the third, is the opportunity to rid us all of those doubts.

I agree to a point and we can quickly go from being in control to all at sea. The subs don’t help. However we lost the Ipswich game because our keeper conceded two or arguably three goals he shouldn’t have conceded. It’s a relief RM’s hand was forced by the injury and perhaps privately he has conceded the same. 

I think the 3-5-2 better suits the players we have and compensates for the fact we have only 1 decent CDM, albeit a very good one at that. 

I feel more optimistic after yesterday as we looked in control of a game for the first time in a while, but that optimism can quickly evaporate.