Mid table Championship mediocrity awaits next year

[Andrew Watson]

As the club has wasted circa 13 million pounds laying off the last two managers,we could be stuck with this manager for at least another season.What a sobering thought to look forward to,more dross tippy tappy possession football,all this seasons best players gone [ THB,KWP,FD,RF ] and next to no money to get better players in for next season.

Had the club got Sean Dyche in instead of the awful Welsh manager we would probably still be in the Premier league,what an absolute shambles of a club who now rank a very miserable third on the South Coast. Totally pissed off fan of 61 years.

[SNSUN]

Well that's us promoted then. 😀

Seriously while I see what you're saying, I don't think it will be that bad next season although I don't think we'd be in the auto fight. Even with the players likely to leave we will still have the basis of a decent team and HOPEFULLY (crossing every finger, toe and somehow, my cock) we might actually sign some decent, non-injured, non-young prospect players and decent loans, we could mount a play-off push. All we need to do is improve the GK, Defence, Midfield and Attack and we'll be fine. 🙄😋

 

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, SNSUN said:

Well that's us promoted then. 😀

Seriously while I see what you're saying, I don't think it will be that bad next season although I don't think we'd be in the auto fight. Even with the players likely to leave we will still have the basis of a decent team and HOPEFULLY (crossing every finger, toe and somehow, my cock) we might actually sign some decent, non-injured, non-young prospect players and decent loans, we could mount a play-off push. All we need to do is improve the GK, Defence, Midfield and Attack and we'll be fine. 🙄😋

 

And the manager.

[Sunglasses Ron]

I’m as depressed about things as the next guy, but let’s at least fuck up the playoffs first before doing posts like this.

Edited April 28 by Sunglasses Ron

[Micky]

To be fair, it's been evident for months that we were not going to make it.   Even with the record breaking run we've barely got near to the top teams, and when we've played them, we've invariably choked.  Who knows we might get really lucky in the playoffs,  but as Jobi Mcanuff said the other day, everybody will want to play us.  Unless we get lucky, I'm fairly sure we won't feature anywhere near the top of the championship next season either.  Currently, under this regime we are going in the wrong direction. 

[Andrew Watson]

The club has been on a downward trajectory for a few years now, I never thought that I would see our  beloved club so far behind Bournemouth in my life time,they have invested very well in a good squad,as for us.

[SNSUN]

 

Well, we can hope. 

[Toussaint]

8 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

 

Well, we can hope. 

It has, Bournemouth and Portsmouth. 

[HKsaint]

I can see we will stay in mid table of championship for a number of years like Swansea and RM will be selling how successful his possession football and trying to find another saints to jump ship

[Master Bates]

I day relegation battlr next season, unless a summer takeover happens.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

We manage to get shot of the, still large, number of players we don't want, that don't fit the system, or who want away.

We use those funds to strengthen the core group. We get a couple of options in CM, and some reinforcements up front.

RussBall flies out the traps next season.

And this is all after we've already secured promotion from the play offs. 🙂

[Farmer Saint]

We could only wish for mid-table mediocrity if we got promoted...

[Dman]

10 hours ago, Andrew Watson said:

The club has been on a downward trajectory for a few years now, I never thought that I would see our  beloved club so far behind Bournemouth in my life time,they have invested very well in a good squad,as for us.

Football generally runs in cycles... Its not possible for clubs like us, brighton and bournemouth to consistently get it right window after window. They'll drop just as fast as they rose, much like we have. 

Much like Brighton and probably Bournemouth, the issue we had is that we didn't feast when times were good. We should have won a trophy during that 4-5 year window, its poor that we didn't.

[david in sweden]

On 28/04/2024 at 02:28, SNSUN said:

Well that's us promoted then. 😀

Seriously while I see what you're saying, I don't think it will be that bad next season although I don't think we'd be in the auto fight. Even with the players likely to leave we will still have the basis of a decent team and HOPEFULLY (crossing every finger, toe and somehow, my cock) we might actually sign some decent, non-injured, non-young prospect players and decent loans, we could mount a play-off push. All we need to do is improve the GK, Defence, Midfield and Attack and we'll be fine. 🙄😋

 

leaving aside the comments about your anatomy....... Although I agree that we desperately need to strengthen the squad in EVERY area before August

what a pleasant thought all those replacements might be... .except that they really do need to be  " quality players" who ; ............

 1) no-one else is after...... 2) who we can afford without breaking the bank....and  3) whatever the outcome of the play-offs in May we will need to renew

around half the squad whether - we go up or not.   Even if we kept;  Macca, Stephens, and Stuart A. for a while longer, we have at least 4 loan players with

only Downes likely the likely prospect to sign... (if he wants to).. and we've seen that a few of the remainder aren't even up to Championship standard.

 

Harwood-Bellis might only stay if we get promotion NOW,  whilst Adams, Bednarek and Walker-Peters will want a move to a higher level, if we fail to get

the third spot, and face the prospect of playing  ANOTHER season in this league.  

Sadly, the Academy successes tend to come and go and at present there are few stand-our talents likely to make the breakthrough to first team level. 

[Dman]

What a miserable situation we find ourselves in.

Go up, its going to be absolute shambles of enormous scales. Derby sort of levels. Stay down its going to be the begining of the end and before we know it, we'll be Stoke / Swansea etc. 

I simply cannot see a way forward for this football club with Russell Martin as manager. Idea situation is that we go up and Martin goes and we bring in someone who would be competent at the level above. 

[Whitey Grandad]

18 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

leaving aside the comments about your anatomy....... Although I agree that we desperately need to strengthen the squad in EVERY area before August

what a pleasant thought all those replacements might be... .except that they really do need to be  " quality players" who ; ............

 1) no-one else is after...... 2) who we can afford without breaking the bank....and  3) whatever the outcome of the play-offs in May we will need to renew

around half the squad whether - we go up or not.   Even if we kept;  Macca, Stephens, and Stuart A. for a while longer, we have at least 4 loan players with

only Downes likely the likely prospect to sign... (if he wants to).. and we've seen that a few of the remainder aren't even up to Championship standard.

 

Harwood-Bellis might only stay if we get promotion NOW,  whilst Adams, Bednarek and Walker-Peters will want a move to a higher level, if we fail to get

the third spot, and face the prospect of playing  ANOTHER season in this league.  

Sadly, the Academy successes tend to come and go and at present there are few stand-our talents likely to make the breakthrough to first team level. 

A couple of points,

Stuart Armstrong is out of contract (as is Adams) and has some serious thinking to do about his future career.

We are committed to signing Harwood-Bellis if we get promoted now, although there would be some prolonged discussions first.

But yes, some considerable reconstruction needed starting with the manager.

 

[Toussaint]

18 minutes ago, Dman said:

What a miserable situation we find ourselves in.

Go up, its going to be absolute shambles of enormous scales. Derby sort of levels. Stay down its going to be the begining of the end and before we know it, we'll be Stoke / Swansea etc. 

I simply cannot see a way forward for this football club with Russell Martin as manager. Idea situation is that we go up and Martin goes and we bring in someone who would be competent at the level above. 

In our current plight, that is relegation followed by where we find ourselves now, all roads lead to Rasmus.  As long as he is pulling the strings nothing will improve. I still think we could have survived last season if the right manager was appointed to succeed Ralph and the money was spent more wisely in January.  

[aintforever]

22 minutes ago, Dman said:

What a miserable situation we find ourselves in.

Go up, its going to be absolute shambles of enormous scales. Derby sort of levels. Stay down its going to be the begining of the end and before we know it, we'll be Stoke / Swansea etc. 

I simply cannot see a way forward for this football club with Russell Martin as manager. Idea situation is that we go up and Martin goes and we bring in someone who would be competent at the level above. 

Don't be such a drama queen. Plenty of clubs would love to be in the play-offs with a chance of getting to the Prem.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I will support Southampton until my demise but right now I am finding hard to "like" my club.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

Football generally runs in cycles... Its not possible for clubs like us, brighton and bournemouth to consistently get it right window after window. They'll drop just as fast as they rose, much like we have. 

Much like Brighton and probably Bournemouth, the issue we had is that we didn't feast when times were good. We should have won a trophy during that 4-5 year window, its poor that we didn't.

Story of our history. IN my lifetime

Peak times 79-85 - runners up and unlucky losers

88-91 - great football but sold all the family silver

2001-04 - Plucky losers in the FA Cup final

2013-17 - Blew it in Europe, plucky cup final losers again

Lower league titles League one came second in a one horse race. Championship bottled the title after a 5 point lead

 

 

 

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Don't be such a drama queen. Plenty of clubs would love to be in the play-offs with a chance of getting to the Prem.

That's not the point I was making, is it. 

Whatever happens this season, next is going to be really, really miserable under this current management. 

[Rebel]

If we don't make it back up I think there will be a few more players leaving than people think.

McCarthy, Adams and Stuart Armstrong will all be out of contract - and I think will be leaving whether we go up or stay down.  Adams will probably end up back in the Midlands at Wolves. And it sounds like Stu will head to the warmer weather of Italy.

Fraser, Downes, TBH, Brooks and Rothwell are all on loan and will be heading back to their parent clubs. I can see Fraser coming back on loan whichever division we are in next season as it seems he wants to live on the South Coast more than anything else.  I would love us to sign Downes and TBH permanently - but I can't see us getting either of them if we don't go up.  I don't think we will miss Rothwell or Brooks that much.

KWP will be gone - to a bigger club in the premier league - hopefully for a good fee - whether we go up or not.  

Bednarek won't stay for another season in the Championship - probably end up in Italy or Germany at a top flight club.  And I am not sure we could afford his wages if we don't go up anyway.

Similarly if the rumours are true and Aribo really is on £70K a week we will need to sell him if we don't get promoted - and he won't want another season in the Championship either.

And Adam Armstrong will have just a year left on his contact so I think he is another one that will push to leave for a low end premier league club.

It looks like Sulemana and Mara don't really want to be here and I think they will head back to France this summer no matter which division we are in next season - and good riddance to both of them to some extent.

Same with Alcaraz. And I don't think he or any other of the senior players who have been out on loan will want to come back (Tall Pall, Lyanco, Perraud or ABK)

Bazunu is out injured for most of next season - so I think Lumley will sign for another year if he hasn't done so already.

So that leaves us with:

                     Lumley?

Bree    Stephens       ?        Manning

      Smallbone    Charles     ?

       Edozie   Stewart    Fraser?

 

and the young players like SAA, Meghoma, Ballard, Abu, Dibling, Lawrence, etc

Doesn't look great does it. Looks more like a side that will be fighting a relegation battle or lower mid table than one mounting a promotion challenge.  

We are going to need to make much better use of the 5 loans than we have done this season - and be much better at recruitment than we have been in the last couple of years.

 But the clubs coming down don't look to be in good shape so maybe with 5 good loan signings and 5 or 6 good permanent signings we could be in with a fighting chance nest season.

[trousers]

3 hours ago, Master Bates said:

I day relegation battlr next season, unless a summer takeover happens.

Can't think why that would happen this summer, unless Sport Republic's business plan is wholely reliant on returning to the PL at the first time of asking? Anyway, given past takeovers, we'll surely hear rumours on here long before anything happens.

[LuckyNumber7]

5 hours ago, Dman said:

Football generally runs in cycles... Its not possible for clubs like us, brighton and bournemouth to consistently get it right window after window. They'll drop just as fast as they rose, much like we have. 

Much like Brighton and probably Bournemouth, the issue we had is that we didn't feast when times were good. We should have won a trophy during that 4-5 year window, its poor that we didn't.

This is true, and in fact the Brighton fans are already turning on De Zerbi. Unless you're one of the rich elite clubs then you'll always have to accept that any relative success will likely be short lived and there will be plenty of hard times too. Just take the rough with the smooth (even the 'rough' this season has been highly enjoyable imo).

I also don't think we'll be as bad as some think in the Championship next season. Even with the departures we should have a core of decent Championship standard players, hopefully we can make some shrewd additions. Plus the teams coming down from the PL will be a lot weaker this time, I don't see any obvious candidate running away with it next season.

[saintant]

The manager may be wrong but the squad definitely needs a reset. Less slow, small, feeble weaklings with no stamina and more big, powerful athletes who can tackle, jump and run for 90 minutes - if they can play a bit that's a bonus 🙂

[John B]

3 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I will support Southampton until my demise but right now I am finding hard to "like" my club.

My first season proper was 1962 63 when we had a great cup run finished 11th 42 points scored 72 goals conceded 67 with a pretty useful squad but nobody I knew whinged about Ted Bates

Most people were happy and fully supported the club unlike today when everybody whinges when we condede a goal and complains about the manager rubbishes players continually when we lose and appear to find fault in most aspects of the club.

 

You reap what you sow

 

 

[david in sweden]

3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

A couple of points,

Stuart Armstrong is out of contract (as is Adams) and has some serious thinking to do about his future career.

We are committed to signing Harwood-Bellis if we get promoted now, although there would be some prolonged discussions first.

But yes, some considerable reconstruction needed starting with the manager.

 

Whitey, 
YES .. I am aware of the contract situation for those players you mentioned, but my thought was (worse case scenario) we might keep them for an extra year

if all else fails.    Someone wrote that Stuart A. was ready to retire?, but he'll be hard to replace and if needed.. an extra year might be a win-win situation. 

I'm expecting (and hoping) that Adams will move on, but if he doesn't find a good fit,  would it do harm to keep him if we don't find the replacement we want?. 

I don't expect THB to stay in any case, but the goalkeeping spot will be a primary concern.  Most Prem. and quite a few Championship clubs have an experienced

international from somewhere, but keeping Macca for another season until Bazunu is 100% fit  would be a panic decision if a " new find " is impossible. 

 

Would we keep any of the loan-outs who.. (theoretically) ..should return to Staplewood when their overseas season(s) are over?

Bella-Kotchap,  Onuacho, Caleta-Car, Perraud  or .Lyanco and Lis ?     Aside from Lis ..they all cost money . Would we release them and take a loss..or.. ?

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, david in sweden said:

Whitey, 
YES .. I am aware of the contract situation for those players you mentioned, but my thought was (worse case scenario) we might keep them for an extra year

if all else fails.    Someone wrote that Stuart A. was ready to retire?, but he'll be hard to replace and if needed.. an extra year might be a win-win situation. 

I'm expecting (and hoping) that Adams will move on, but if he doesn't find a good fit,  would it do harm to keep him if we don't find the replacement we want?. 

I don't expect THB to stay in any case, but the goalkeeping spot will be a primary concern.  Most Prem. and quite a few Championship clubs have an experienced

international from somewhere, but keeping Macca for another season until Bazunu is 100% fit  would be a panic decision if a " new find " is impossible. 

 

Would we keep any of the loan-outs who.. (theoretically) ..should return to Staplewood when their overseas season(s) are over?

Bella-Kotchap,  Onuacho, Caleta-Car, Perraud  or .Lyanco and Lis ?     Aside from Lis ..they all cost money . Would we release them and take a loss..or.. ?

It’s all questions, questions.

[Fan The Flames]

3 hours ago, John B said:

My first season proper was 1962 63 when we had a great cup run finished 11th 42 points scored 72 goals conceded 67 with a pretty useful squad but nobody I knew whinged about Ted Bates

Most people were happy and fully supported the club unlike today when everybody whinges when we condede a goal and complains about the manager rubbishes players continually when we lose and appear to find fault in most aspects of the club.

 

You reap what you sow

That's was just after the war, before TVs and X Box, when all the entertainment you had was morris dancing, The Archers and a warm pint of bitter in the working mans club after working 6 days down the pits, which made the technicolour of red and white stripes seem like fire to a caveman.

[LeBizzier69]

The upside of mid table mediocrity next year is that we might get rid of the fans who boo after a few shit performances. 
The on demand generation might need to grow some patience and realise that supporting this club is 90% worry and 10% euphoria. 

[spyinthesky]

I remember Lawrie McMenemy getting booed when he first took over from Ted Bates due to a run of poor results!!

[Stud mark of doom]

1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

I remember Lawrie McMenemy getting booed when he first took over from Ted Bates due to a run of poor results!!

Tbf, he did take the team from near the top of the league to relegation in less than a season - despite having the England striker up front and being able to sign another  striker for a whisker under the British transfer record. Lawrie’s first season makes Selles and even Jones seem quite good. 

Maybe they would have won the cup for us in 2025 and taken us to runners up in 2033 if we had cut them a bit more slack? 
 

Not a serious suggestion re the recent two - but an interesting point that there is not a cat in hells chance Lawrie would have survived his first season these days. 

[Weston Super Saint]

11 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

I remember Lawrie McMenemy getting booed when he first took over from Ted Bates due to a run of poor results!!

Bloody 'on demand' generation.

[Dusic]

11 hours ago, LeBizzier69 said:

The upside of mid table mediocrity next year is that we might get rid of the fans who boo after a few shit performances. 
The on demand generation might need to grow some patience and realise that supporting this club is 90% worry and 10% euphoria. 

Irony being that, including the OP and many others on here, most of the bigger Martin critics I know are actually older rather than younger.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

9 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Irony being that, including the OP and many others on here, most of the bigger Martin critics I know are actually older rather than younger.

The older you get, the more difficult it is to move with the times, leaving you with outdated concepts like ... going for the win and defending. 🙂

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

On 29/04/2024 at 14:31, John B said:

My first season proper was 1962 63 when we had a great cup run finished 11th 42 points scored 72 goals conceded 67 with a pretty useful squad but nobody I knew whinged about Ted Bates

Most people were happy and fully supported the club unlike today when everybody whinges when we condede a goal and complains about the manager rubbishes players continually when we lose and appear to find fault in most aspects of the club.

 

You reap what you sow

 

 

You've got 15 years on me but even when I started watching Saints, the players were everyday Joes who you could meet in the pub or on the street. Nowadays there's that distance between the fans and the players. You watch them play and then they get in their fancy cars and disappear. Some look like they don't even give a toss about our club (eg ABK, Sulemana) and probably couldn't even point to Southampton on a map.

So it goes two ways. We'll accept you when you win, but put in a shit performance and we will boo.

But even if we don't get promoted this year and lose a lot of our squad, I still think we'll have enough quality to challenge for promotion again next year. That said, I hope we get through via the play offs.

[Sunglasses Ron]

Can we whack a lock on this thread!

[Dark Munster]

8 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

Can we whack a lock on this thread!

Depends. Any Leeds fans lurking? <grin>