Are we becoming a graveyard for young players

[Nemi]

Well we all know this buying young players strategy isn’t bringing the results on the pitch, but are we also destroying young players careers with this idea?

We’re throwing a load of talented kids into a team with no leadership, no direction, no-one to learn from and let’s be honest more of our young signings have regressed rather than developed (arguably even Lavia started to perform slightly worse during his time here, he just set such a high bar from the start). 
 

Surely if we carry on down this path, young players are going to figure out that moving here just isn’t a good idea for their career - players just aren’t developing in this team, and tbh I feel a bit sorry for them. Personally, don’t blame someone like Kami Doyle having a go at Brighton - where at least their team has a bit of balance and gives their players the space and set-up to develop. I still not sure Doyle is good enough to make it but he definitely has a better chance of improving there than here.

Captain obvious here (for anyone apart from SR) but maybe it’s time we buy some experience and quality to create an atmosphere where our own academy players can develop, instead of bringing in young players elsewhere and leaving them in a rudderless starting 11, and blocking the progress of our academy.

 

[Patches O Houlihan]

I’m not sure about the wider strategy, but I think THB has been canny:

> CB is a position renowned for teams preferring experience. 
> Big PL teams want ball playing centre backs who can defend against breakaways. 
> You don’t get that experience as a young player at a bottom half side in the PL, and unless you are exceptional won’t get it in a top half PL side.

Winning promotion with Burnley as a ball playing CB was ideal experience. Repeating that experience again this season rather than staying with Burnley will have been good for his long term career. Perhaps there is a chance he might stay even if we don’t go up - depends how loud the clamour for him is from mid table PL teams.

I think Baz will ultimately do fine out of signing for us in the same way - it will maximise his opportunity to develop his talent. Whether that talent has a high enough ceiling is another matter. 

I don’t think Lavia, Livramento or Sam Edozie have harmed their careers by signing for us. Whilst Charly Alcaraz hasn’t astounded on the pitch for us, he did get an opportunity at Juve - that he didn’t take it is down to him (or his talent level)

Ballard is on loan. Dibling & Megahoma are at least back on the bench. SAA did get a go earlier in the season but he is still very young. I would like to see him on the bench though for some games. 

Edited April 24 by Patches O Houlihan

[Nordic Saint]

Alex McCarthy is a fine example to them all. No matter how useless you are, Southampton Football Club will take care of you and pay you much more than any other club would.

If Carlos Kaiser were starting out today, this would have been the ideal club for him.

I had a 26-year football career in Brazil, France, Mexico and USA but never kicked a ball and instead slept with 1000 women | talkSPORT

 

Edited April 24 by Nordic Saint

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Nemi said:

Well we all know this buying young players strategy isn’t bringing the results on the pitch, but are we also destroying young players careers with this idea?

We’re throwing a load of talented kids into a team with no leadership, no direction, no-one to learn from and let’s be honest more of our young signings have regressed rather than developed (arguably even Lavia started to perform slightly worse during his time here, he just set such a high bar from the start). 
 

Surely if we carry on down this path, young players are going to figure out that moving here just isn’t a good idea for their career - players just aren’t developing in this team, and tbh I feel a bit sorry for them. Personally, don’t blame someone like Kami Doyle having a go at Brighton - where at least their team has a bit of balance and gives their players the space and set-up to develop. I still not sure Doyle is good enough to make it but he definitely has a better chance of improving there than here.

Captain obvious here (for anyone apart from SR) but maybe it’s time we buy some experience and quality to create an atmosphere where our own academy players can develop, instead of bringing in young players elsewhere and leaving them in a rudderless starting 11, and blocking the progress of our academy.

 

Great post.  Last paragraph could have been written by Lawrie Mac himself.

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, Nemi said:

Captain obvious here (for anyone apart from SR) but maybe it’s time we buy some experience and quality to create an atmosphere where our own academy players can develop, instead of bringing in young players elsewhere and leaving them in a rudderless starting 11, and blocking the progress of our academy.

What makes you think our squad lacks experience? We’ve got absolutely bags of it. Buying experience and quality cost money and even if you spend it, there’re no guarantees. Orsic and Manning were experienced when we brought them in and both looked like a fish up a tree. We lucked out a bit getting Manning on a free, even if we’d spent £6m on him people would be saying, "excellent piece of business, bringing in an experienced Championship defender from the team of the season."

[Nemi]

2 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

I don’t think Lavia, Livramento or Sam Edozie have harmed their careers by signing for us. Whilst Charly Alcaraz hasn’t astounded on the pitch for us, he did get an opportunity at Juve - that he didn’t take it is down to him (or his talent level)

Lavia and Livromento were just good players anyway though, but as we see their a rare example and there not gonna come around too often. Not enough to base a whole transfer strategy around.

And even then, I don’t think Lavia actually improved here, he was always really good. And Livramento was certainly going backwards, compared to the player that joined us who’d take people on at will at the end of the season he couldn’t wait to get rid of the ball. It’s worked out for them though but I think that’s more down to those players talent rather than us.

As for Edozie, I like him and he has plenty of time, but right now I have no idea where his career is going.

[S-Clarke]

32 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Lavia and Livromento were just good players anyway though, but as we see their a rare example and there not gonna come around too often. Not enough to base a whole transfer strategy around.

And even then, I don’t think Lavia actually improved here, he was always really good. And Livramento was certainly going backwards, compared to the player that joined us who’d take people on at will at the end of the season he couldn’t wait to get rid of the ball. It’s worked out for them though but I think that’s more down to those players talent rather than us.

As for Edozie, I like him and he has plenty of time, but right now I have no idea where his career is going.

Livramento was going backwards? The guy couldn't play for us for 18 months, hard to put that on what we did to him. Before his injury he was one of our first names every week. He's gone on to prove himself at Newcastle.

I don't think we're a graveyard in any way, last season in the PL we put our future on the line by playing a load of kids and starting the pro careers of Lavia, Tino, Edozie, Larios, this season we've done the same with Charles, SAA, Dibling etc. As  a club we got the strategy wrong and doubled down on it, in some ways I feel a bit sorry for the young lads we signed, but I don't think you can say we're a graveyard for them, we play so many young players - we just need to get the structure right around them and they'll fly imo.

Edited April 24 by S-Clarke

[Mr Saints]

More or a general point but our attacking signings have been shite.  Fatawu did more in 1 game last night than both Edozie and Mara will ever do over a 46 game season.

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Mr Saints said:

More or a general point but our attacking signings have been shite.  Fatawu did more in 1 game last night than both Edozie and Mara will ever do over a 46 game season.

He's only on loan from Benfica to be fair, a buy clause of £25m ish - which they won't be able to activate due to their embargo.

[Verbal]

I'm genuinely curious: which young players in the squad this year have actually developed significantly? My impression is none, which would be a hell of a problem - but I hope I'm wrong.

[Doctoroncall]

On 24/04/2024 at 11:27, Lighthouse said:

What makes you think our squad lacks experience? We’ve got absolutely bags of it. Buying experience and quality cost money and even if you spend it, there’re no guarantees. Orsic and Manning were experienced when we brought them in and both looked like a fish up a tree. We lucked out a bit getting Manning on a free, even if we’d spent £6m on him people would be saying, "excellent piece of business, bringing in an experienced Championship defender from the team of the season."

Experience is such a broad term. Having some leadership qualities- supportive, knowledgeable, positive, engaging, committed would be a start. 

As you say football experience costs but having some one who is tactically aware, has good balance and agility would help not just that they have played so many games. 
 

The spine of the team being the more important positions to have the experienced players in or as partners. 

[SambaMaverick]

It's the policy of bringing them in (on top of the promising lads we have) which is wrong, not the use of the youngsters.

Of our under-23 players, only THB is good enough to help get promotion in this league. 

[Nemi]

On 24/04/2024 at 12:21, S-Clarke said:

Livramento was going backwards? The guy couldn't play for us for 18 months, hard to put that on what we did to him. Before his injury he was one of our first names every week. He's gone on to prove himself at Newcastle.

I don't think we're a graveyard in any way, last season in the PL we put our future on the line by playing a load of kids and starting the pro careers of Lavia, Tino, Edozie, Larios, this season we've done the same with Charles, SAA, Dibling etc. As  a club we got the strategy wrong and doubled down on it, in some ways I feel a bit sorry for the young lads we signed, but I don't think you can say we're a graveyard for them, we play so many young players - we just need to get the structure right around them and they'll fly imo.

His form certainly went downhill the more his season here progressed, even on here there was a flurry of posts which picked up on it. Not a comment on his ability because he came here a class player and left a class player, but playing in such a young team without much leadership, it was certainly impacting on his and Broja’s confidence that season.

[Nemi]

4 hours ago, Doctoroncall said:

Experience is such a broad term. Having some leadership qualities- supportive, knowledgeable, positive, engaging, committed would be a start. 

As you say football experience costs but having some one who is tactically aware, has good balance and agility would help not just that they have played so many games. 
 

The spine of the team being the more important positions to have the experienced players in or as partners. 

Your post says it explains it better than mine. We might have some experience, but generally they’re the players who we haven’t been able to shift, hence the majority of their experience is losing and dragging our club downhill. They might have played a lot but they have no knowledge as how to win a football match. 
 

Similarly, our more vocal players - Bednerek , Stephens - are not reliable enough players to be considered leaders. How many leads have that pair thrown away in their careers? What experience do they have of shutting up shop and seeing out a game? None is the answer, because panicking, losing concentration and conceding late goals has become engrained into their careers. And we risk engraining the same mentality in our young players.

What we desperately need is a few players - who know the championship inside out, who have won promotion, who have delivered in big moments - who can supplement the young talent we have. Because unfortunately we have no winners in our squad, no true talisman who steps up and delivers in a pressure moment. Whereas Leicester and Leeds do.