Crouch on radio today

[NickG]

One of the most sensible posts I have read on here lately IMO and totally concur.

I asked the other day for a Luvvie to name one thing that he has done since his return that has been successful and the silence was deafening.

Ok maybe that we actually haven't gone into admin yet but is that more to do with aviva/Barclays not wanting to pull the plug?

The thing that angers me most was loaning Stern John and then bringing the likes of Gasmi who is no better than anything else we have at the club and is very, very lightweight and added to Pulis, Robertson, Pekhart is absurd.

 

that because I don't think anyone on here thinks he is close to ideal and most want them all gone, but if you question Crouch or don't slag off everything lowe does constantly you are a lowe luvvie -strange

[fos1]

Most of us realise the financial mess we are in, but Crouch is not alone in believing that someone else could do a better job under the same financial constraints.

 

The amount of money that has been wasted since Lowe returned has been criminal - the usual accumulation of a huge squad of average players not even good enough to get on the bench, coaching staff on "gardening leave" that we are obviously still paying.

 

Whoever has been scouting Gasmi, Pulis, Peckhardt, Smith, Robertson, etc., has cost this club a packet. Whoever he is, we don't even know, but he must be getting a fee or salary.

 

I think the vast majority of us would have swap one wage of either John or Rasiak for 6 other nonenties. We might have actually won a couple more home games that would have kept the crowds from dropping so drastically.

 

The vast majority of Championship clubs are working under very tight financial constraints, but most are better run than us. I'm not suprised Crouch thinks he can do a better job than Lowe - I'm pretty sure that I could too.

 

Post of the day !!!

[Saint Richard of Woolston]

I am inclined to agree Richard.

The only thing I will say was Crouch had less time and he had to deal with the Execs but when all said and done the sooner someone new comes in the better but... is that likely?

 

Ah, the nub of it, Duncan. And the answer is, sadly, an emphatic 'no'. Ideally, somebody would buy the three of them out, invest (i.e. give money to) in the Club and team and we would be off.

 

What we as fans are meant to do, I just do not really know. Protests are all well and good but fairly hollow without a Plan B to protest in favour of rather than just being against Plan A.

 

Might be seeing more of each other at Eastleigh??!!! It doesn't hurt quite so much there.

[St. Jason]

I didnt say any game was empty and I didnt say any game would be empty. I was there for the plymouth game which was his 1st game and the crowd were all that much better than many crowds this season.

 

Bristol City were flying high at the time and we generally get a good crowd when ever we play teams from the top or the bottom of the league. using that as an example is as much use as using the Man U game as an example this season.

 

I accept that if we were at the top of the table we would have much bigger crowds, but that goes for the current lot too right?

 

I dont see how the current mess's would be any better or worse to be honest with him in charge. They are all pr1cks of the highest order and I would only welcome a change if there was more evidence than a solent interview of things being actually better.

 

Just to clear a couple of points up so we can all deal in facts :-

 

Plymouth - 17,806

Ipswich - 23,299

Leiccester - 17,741

Coventry - 22,014

Bristol - 22,890

Burnley - 21,762

Shef Utd - 31,086

 

Total = 156,5980

Average = 22,371

 

That equates to 7k more fans to each home game, averaging @ £25 per game = £175,000 which come the end of the season equates to an extra £4m+ coming into the coffers which apys 2 3rd's of the overdraft of, not to mention the £2m Crouch has personally offered!!

 

Note: I'm not stupid enough to suggest everything would of been rosy under Crouch, just using the figures to make a point!

[derry]

 

Exactly and that is where most of this mess came from not Crouch but Wilde and the execs he brought in. Yet he gets away scot free and all the focus gets put onto Lowe and Crouch.

Wilde has a lot to answer for and changing sides like his underpants has got us even further into a mess with this joke of a board.

 

Exactly, Lowe is a busted flush, he is a cold, unlikeable, arrogant ex under achieving banker.

 

He is disliked by a silent majority, not for what he has done but for who and what he is. How ever long he hangs on, there is no place for him as far as the supporters are concerned. Until he goes and severs his connection the club cannot move forward.

 

Wilde, is a man who is not respected by the supporters. His incompetence in allowing a situation where executives could outvote and get rid of shareholders was the root cause of our financial predicament.

 

Backing Lowe knowing he was hated by the fans has cooked his goose with the fans. He is despised even more than Lowe.

 

Crouch is not everyone's cup of tea but he is the only one of the three that has any respect from a large proportion of the fans. He has pledged his own money and has been a contributor and gave his time free.

 

At this time he is a no brainer as Chairman, for me it is important to have Southampton people running the club, it's the outsiders that have made this mess.

[saintjay77]

One of the most sensible posts I have read on here lately IMO and totally concur.

I asked the other day for a Luvvie to name one thing that he has done since his return that has been successful and the silence was deafening.

Ok maybe that we actually haven't gone into admin yet but is that more to do with aviva/Barclays not wanting to pull the plug?

The thing that angers me most was loaning Stern John and then bringing the likes of Gasmi who is no better than anything else we have at the club and is very, very lightweight and added to Pulis, Robertson, Pekhart is absurd.

 

I havnt seen Scooby post here for ages so thats probably why you didnt get a reply.

 

Wilde campaigned to get rid of Lowe for bloody ages yet after he royally ballsed it up he went back to Lowe for help to get things straight. He could have teamed up with Crouch to get rid of the execs and kept Lowe out of it. Crouch was happy to be the figure head and has ideas of his own on how a football club should be run.

 

But why didnt he? If his main aim was to keep us out of admin and he chose Lowe who he hates over Crouch who helped him kick Lowe out last time does that not suggest that Lowe has a purpose?

 

not saying I like it but I dont hate him just because he has sided with the goon we all hate the most and if there was a definate better alternative that offered more than empty promises im sure that 99.9 % ( the missing .1 % is scooby of corse ) would be united in trying to get a change.

 

Right now the choices we have are alltas bad as each other IMO

[Wade Garrett]

 

Exactly, Lowe is a busted flush, he is a cold, unlikeable, arrogant ex under achieving banker.

 

He is disliked by a silent majority, not for what he has done but for who and what he is. How ever long he hangs on, there is no place for him as far as the supporters are concerned. Until he goes and severs his connection the club cannot move forward.

 

Wilde, is a man who is not respected by the supporters. His incompetence in allowing a situation where executives could outvote and get rid of shareholders was the root cause of our financial predicament.

 

Backing Lowe knowing he was hated by the fans has cooked his goose with the fans. He is despised even more than Lowe.

 

Crouch is not everyone's cup of tea but he is the only one of the three that has any respect from a large proportion of the fans. He has pledged his own money and has been a contributor and gave his time free.

 

At this time he is a no brainer as Chairman, for me it is important to have Southampton people running the club, it's the outsiders that have made this mess.

 

Good post Derry, apart from the Lowe bit. I think most people dislike him for what he has done to the club, not who he is.

Edited 28 January, 2009 by Wade Garrett

[eelpie]

A bit hypocritical this really. You suggest Lowe would be picking the team and players yet you complain about the players GB brought in.

 

GB took us to within a game or 2 of the prem with those players so they cant of been that bad.

 

If we were in the same position in the league under crouch this season then I doubt the gates would be much different as they are now so Barcleys would still be looking for realistic ways of getting the overdraft reduced. Saying that we are all only guessing and IF doesnt mean jack as we will never know.

.

 

It was a decent side that got us to the play-offs, (despite some weird substitution decsions on GB's part imo). And gates were good.

 

But by the time that Burley left we had acquired a very large, unwieldy squad that he didn't know how to use.

 

Your point that gates would not be better under Crouch and Pearson than they are now is rubbish.

 

But I agree we desperately need a whole new Board of different people.

[stevegrant]

Just to clear a couple of points up so we can all deal in facts :-

 

Plymouth - 17,806

Ipswich - 23,299

Leiccester - 17,741

Coventry - 22,014

Bristol - 22,890

Burnley - 21,762

Shef Utd - 31,086

 

Total = 156,5980

Average = 22,371

 

That equates to 7k more fans to each home game, averaging @ £25 per game = £175,000 which come the end of the season equates to an extra £4m+ coming into the coffers which apys 2 3rd's of the overdraft of, not to mention the £2m Crouch has personally offered!!

 

Note: I'm not stupid enough to suggest everything would of been rosy under Crouch, just using the figures to make a point!

Our average this season is 16,836, so a drop of 5,500, not 7,000, and the average ticket price isn't anywhere near £25. Very few tickets are available for the top-priced £26. I'm led to believe the average, taking into account student, OAP and junior concessions is less than £20.

 

With those figures, the additional revenue is £2.5m. Still significant, certainly, but not anywhere near as much as you claim.

 

Of course, once the club has that additional revenue, perhaps Leon Crouch might then think that the club doesn't need him to put £2m in, as the situation with a £3.5m overdraft rather than a £6m one is much more manageable.

[saintjay77]

Just to clear a couple of points up so we can all deal in facts :-

 

Plymouth - 17,806

Ipswich - 23,299

Leiccester - 17,741

Coventry - 22,014

Bristol - 22,890

Burnley - 21,762

Shef Utd - 31,086

 

Total = 156,5980

Average = 22,371

 

That equates to 7k more fans to each home game, averaging @ £25 per game = £175,000 which come the end of the season equates to an extra £4m+ coming into the coffers which apys 2 3rd's of the overdraft of, not to mention the £2m Crouch has personally offered!!

 

Note: I'm not stupid enough to suggest everything would of been rosy under Crouch, just using the figures to make a point!

 

Were there not more season ticket holders last season? was the early bird renewal being taken up while Crouch was in charge?

 

Not trying to distort your figures but many had decided to give up coming this season before Lowe had returned and If we are going to deal with Facts can we stop with what would happen IF Crouch was in charge this season?

 

im not trying to say people are not staying away because of lowe being here and accept there would probably be larger gates but going back to an IF for a sec, IF we were in the same position in the table now had Crouch been here I doubt the gates would have been all that impressive.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by adriansfc

How would we have "no financial problems"??

 

Can't just say that without explaining it. He says he doesn't have the 6m needed now. So does he know someone that does? If so, why hasn't he sorted it out? If not, how would we have no financial problems under him, given that he couldn't clear the overdraft? An overdraft that stands despite selling and loaning out many experienced players.

 

Fed up of these claims that aren't even being backed up. He should actually do something or shut up until he can. Fair enough if he'd found the 6m and the board had rejected it, then he'd have every right to publicise it so the fans knew, but the subjective self-aggrandising crap can stop.

Because we would have bigger gates = more revenue = less pressure from the bank.

The only way we would get bigger gates is by winning and we would not of started the season with a stupid Dutch experiment wasting what little revenue we had on 5 loans who are so poor cant get in ahead of 17 year olds.

Pretty simple really if look at it from the middle ground - I want all 3 out but this current board are a joke and a mess.

 

So take away R Wright, Lucetti, Safri, Wright, Licka, Stern, Vignal, Jesus, Hammil, Viafara, 1/2 of Saga, + god knows how many others, you believe that Pearson will improve upon his results without these players? Anyone with any intelligence said at the time that relegation this season under Pearson was more than likely, which was not a reflection on Pearson but the position we were in. We have been lucky this season with some of the younger signings we have made, but trying to compete against League 1 sides (or lower) for the more experienced players has been a real problem.

 

Our gates have been declining markedly since relegation and if you believe that Pearson with a far depleted squad is going to go on winning runs which he never demonstrated previously, you are deluded. We hit record lows of 17000 last season and it has got worse this season. When you factor in the revenue from gates the picture is far worse, biased by cheap tickets and add ons similar to what we saw against Forest.

You can look at how well Pearson is doing at the present, but equally you could compare Doncaster and Forest between this and last season and it's impossible to put in a comparison of any worth. Forest could even go out and afford Rob Earnshaw, dreamland for us.

 

So it was not Crouch who loaned out Rasiak and Skacel last season? Sort of ****es on your bonfire there Nick.

Loaning out 2 players that were highly paid and cutting the wage bill and also 2 of the most popular.

Loaned out! then add on the fact of all the other loans brought in at the time and the permanent signing of Davies. And as we subsequently find out, these loans of Rasiak and Skacel have a habit of coming back on your books, because other clubs are not prepared to pay those wages. So yes Crouch may have been ****ing on the bonfire with one hand, but he had the petrol pump fully open in the other hand.

 

You can say Crouch would have done this or done that, but in reality he did the square root of fook all. He clearly stated what his plan was to just sit there and wait for investment, some masterplan.

[CB Fry]

Our average this season is 16,836, so a drop of 5,500, not 7,000, and the average ticket price isn't anywhere near £25. Very few tickets are available for the top-priced £26. I'm led to believe the average, taking into account student, OAP and junior concessions is less than £20.

 

With those figures, the additional revenue is £2.5m. Still significant, certainly, but not anywhere near as much as you claim.

 

Of course, once the club has that additional revenue, perhaps Leon Crouch might then think that the club doesn't need him to put £2m in, as the situation with a £3.5m overdraft rather than a £6m one is much more manageable.

 

 

And its fair to say we don't really know what gates would be were we, say, five places up the table bimbling about not doing anything of note (like Plymouth, say). We may not have got the kind of gate we got for the Forest game if it were more meaningless than it was (and we might not have run the ticket offer for the same reason).

 

If the last game of last season was a meaningless play-out would we have packed them in? Unlikely. Glory and peril increase gates.

 

Middling mediocrity is pretty dull sometimes and I think we'd still find plenty to moan about on this forum.

 

I'm not saying the "Lowe effect" doesn't exist, it clearly does, and being awful and winning one home game is not going to help, but its a bit dangerous to make too many wild predictions about how fantastic it would all be under Crouch with regard to gates and glory.

 

I think we need a bigger change than another deckchair shift.

[saintjay77]

It was a decent side that got us to the play-offs, (despite some weird substitution decsions on GB's part imo). And gates were good.

 

But by the time that Burley left we had acquired a very large, unwieldy squad that he didn't know how to use.

 

Your point that gates would not be better under Crouch and Pearson than they are now is rubbish.

 

But I agree we desperately need a whole new Board of different people.

 

So you think like i said if we were in the same position with Crouch in charge gates would still be up in or near the 20000s?

 

1 win in 14, 2nd from bottom in the league, cant win at home, unable to play our better players, loaning in carp cause we cant afford better. this is what i meant about being in the same position. And you really believe the crowds would still stick by the team through that? Im sorry but no matter who is manager/chairman/owner if the situation is as bad as it is today we would have many empty seats in SMS.

[Mole]

Christ.

 

I thought he'd perhaps turned a corner with his much-more-reasonable comments in the Echo, but clearly not.

 

Bigger crowds? Probably, I'll give him that one.

Other end of the table? Really? Seriously?!

No financial problems? How?

 

If only he knew it all like you do. Considering Leon has been there and done it and you've still got the cradle marks on your arse i know who's press comments i'd rather read/listen to.

[St. Jason]

Our average this season is 16,836, so a drop of 5,500, not 7,000, and the average ticket price isn't anywhere near £25. Very few tickets are available for the top-priced £26. I'm led to believe the average, taking into account student, OAP and junior concessions is less than £20.

 

With those figures, the additional revenue is £2.5m. Still significant, certainly, but not anywhere near as much as you claim.

 

Of course, once the club has that additional revenue, perhaps Leon Crouch might then think that the club doesn't need him to put £2m in, as the situation with a £3.5m overdraft rather than a £6m one is much more manageable.

 

 

16,836 now, bit the season total average won't be that high! 10 mates came with me against Doncaster so thats 10 of the season average straight away, they all paid £25 each for itchen North, 9 had 2 pints at half time, 5 had a pie and 1 soppy tw4t had a bovril. I didn't say in my post the ticket price was £25 each game, I said that 7k @ £25 each which would take into account a pie and a pint or chocolate bar & pepsi!

 

Also your quite right about Crouch then not putting any money, i suppose you could argue that he'd of done the job anyway by reducing the overdraft to a manageable level??

[eelpie]

So you think like i said if we were in the same position with Crouch in charge gates would still be up in or near the 20000s?

 

1 win in 14, 2nd from bottom in the league, cant win at home, unable to play our better players, loaning in carp cause we cant afford better. this is what i meant about being in the same position. And you really believe the crowds would still stick by the team through that? Im sorry but no matter who is manager/chairman/owner if the situation is as bad as it is today we would have many empty seats in SMS.

 

I didn't state a figure. I said they would be better.

And with Crouch AND Pearson in charge we would be in a better league position.

[saintjay77]

Our average this season is 16,836, so a drop of 5,500, not 7,000, and the average ticket price isn't anywhere near £25. Very few tickets are available for the top-priced £26. I'm led to believe the average, taking into account student, OAP and junior concessions is less than £20.

 

With those figures, the additional revenue is £2.5m. Still significant, certainly, but not anywhere near as much as you claim.

 

Of course, once the club has that additional revenue, perhaps Leon Crouch might then think that the club doesn't need him to put £2m in, as the situation with a £3.5m overdraft rather than a £6m one is much more manageable.

 

I thought the overdraft was around 6 million at the start of the season but now around 4.5 million? the 6 m illion that is being touted about now would clear our overdraft and get a new manager in while paying off our current ones and give the new manager some cash to buy some players alledgedly.

[St. Jason]

Were there not more season ticket holders last season? was the early bird renewal being taken up while Crouch was in charge?

 

Not trying to distort your figures but many had decided to give up coming this season before Lowe had returned and If we are going to deal with Facts can we stop with what would happen IF Crouch was in charge this season?

 

im not trying to say people are not staying away because of lowe being here and accept there would probably be larger gates but going back to an IF for a sec, IF we were in the same position in the table now had Crouch been here I doubt the gates would have been all that impressive.

 

ok just facts, we were in a simliar posistion last year and the crowds were better!

 

I'd also question your "a lot of people ha already decided not to come this season" when I left the ground against Shef Utd i was buzzing, felt united actualy felt positive for this year, as did every single person I spoke to that day. everyone of my group was and had renewed until that day Lowe came back, I am the only 1 left from that group, fact!

[CB Fry]

I thought the overdraft was around 6 million at the start of the season but now around 4.5 million? the 6 m illion that is being touted about now would clear our overdraft and get a new manager in while paying off our current ones and give the new manager some cash to buy some players alledgedly.

 

There isn't £6m being touted about though.

 

There's Crouch saying "I'll put £2m if you two do" which is just a convenient way of saying "I'm not going to put £2m in but I can make a fan-friendly point that makes me look good".

 

He might as well say that to me, because I'm just as likely to put £2m in as Lowe and Wilde, and Crouch damn well knows that. (not about me, Wilde and Lowe).

 

There's plenty of people witholding their twenty quids and not turning up at present, and they have my blessing to do as they please. But one can hardly blame anyone else for not putting in two million pounds.

[saintjay77]

I didn't state a figure. I said they would be better.

And with Crouch AND Pearson in charge we would be in a better league position.

 

no you said

 

"Your point that gates would not be better under Crouch and Pearson than they are now is rubbish."

 

I said I doubt they would be much better had the situation been the same. I dont see how what i said was rubbish?

 

I dont see why we are arguing over it as its all based on IF's

 

Crouch may have come in and brought 10 million with him and we could be riding high right now. The people at the top though decided to side with who ever they did for there own reasons and are tryint to do things about the situation. Untill Crouch comes up with some hard evidence that he can do better I dont see why we should all jump ship again.

[St. Jason]

So you think like i said if we were in the same position with Crouch in charge gates would still be up in or near the 20000s?

 

1 win in 14, 2nd from bottom in the league, cant win at home, unable to play our better players, loaning in carp cause we cant afford better. this is what i meant about being in the same position. And you really believe the crowds would still stick by the team through that? Im sorry but no matter who is manager/chairman/owner if the situation is as bad as it is today we would have many empty seats in SMS.

 

Saintjay I hear what your saying but it could be better, instead of Saints loaning/signing 15 poor players that can't get in the team then sub-sequently leave. We could of only signed 5, used the saving from the other 10 and made sure the 5 we'd signed we're better players and paying them more!

[saintjay77]

There isn't £6m being touted about though.

 

There's Crouch saying "I'll put £2m if you two do" which is just a convenient way of saying "I'm not going to put £2m in but I can make a fan-friendly point that makes me look good".

 

He might as well say that to me, because I'm just as likely to put £2m in as Lowe and Wilde, and Crouch damn well knows that. (not about me, Wilde and Lowe).

 

There's plenty of people witholding their twenty quids and not turning up at present, and they have my blessing to do as they please. But one can hardly blame anyone else for not putting in two million pounds.

 

Fair point but I am just saying things as I read it. 2 million each works out as the 6 million and Crouchs plans were as I said before or so its been told. This is how he is trying to win the support to get his foot back in the door and if we all fall for it we could end up with the same sittuation but different faces again.

[derry]

Good post Derry, apart from the Lowe bit. I think most people dislike him for what he has done to the club, not who he is.

 

I didn't want to get into a he did this or he didn't do that argument. For me his micro managing, bean counter, interfering acceptance of the cheap option of mediocrity, was the reason we are where we are.

 

His arrogant, I know better than the the football world, and lots of cheap crap is better than the quality I can sell to fund the profits, allowing dividends, share options and bonuses.

[Wopper]

Leon should keep quiet. Rupert knows what hes doing:)

[St Landrew]

If I was chairman we would be sitting mid table in Prem after spanking Man Utd 3-1 at SMS last night.

 

Whatever...

 

Then what are you waiting for man..? Get down there and do your stuff..!

 

The day Leon Crouch first opened his mouth and ranted [yes he did] about Saints, fans who heard him did a little mental step back. They weren't sure whether this man was the real deal. I thought he sounded like a bit of a knuckle dragger. But knuckle draggers don't have the nounce to head up multi-million pound businesses and make them thrive. They don't have personal fortunes in the millions either. So we have to give LC some credit for knowing the his way round a balance sheet, how hard to work, and how intelligent he needs to be.

 

But he's opened his mouth many times since, and it gets easier on the ear. Among the passionate words there is a lot of sense. There's no doubt the man is a fan. Anyone who can stand up in a AGM and throw down the gauntlet to the current Board, as he did, is not there for laughs. As to his tenure last season, I think he did OK. Not great, but he was finding out what it was all about heading up a football club. He dipped into his own pocket to save the odd situation, rather than let things fester. And yes, he let a debt build up, but I suspect it wasn't all of his own doing, and besides, he had one eye on actually trying to do something, rather than budget the club to relegation. Yes, he made mistakes. But he got it right in the end. Then, in the close season, all that he did was completely dismantled.

 

I think Saints would be higher up the table with LC in the Chair. I'm almost certain [certain..? how can anybody be completely sure, the rate Saints change managers] we would still have Nigel Pearson as Manager. I think LC would see the value of occasionally strengthening the squad, and transferring out the people who don't perform. Earlier in the season, I had a conversation with a friend who questioned my suggestion that... at most, 5,000 supporters were staying at home because of the present Board setup, such is the hatred of the present regime... Now I think there would be at least 5,000 extra supporters in the stadium. That's higher revenue, and it creates a better feeling all round.

 

So right at this very moment, I'm in the camp which would rather have LC at the helm; with of course, the ideal being that there is a complete takeover from a new, rich owner. What I'll be thinking at the end of the season, who knows..? Mark Wotte may have changed everything round. I bloody well hope he does, because I hate being a Saints supporter, and having no faith in the people who run the club.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

From the transcript of the last AGM...

 

Crouch to Lowe:

 

"The plan we are working on now is my plan but there is a difference. I would have had experienced players, loan players and free transfers, but you bought young ones and they’re not strong enough. You’re a disgrace. You have appointed a manager who is out of his depth and who hasn’t a clue. You’ve ****ed it up. Where is Nigel Pearson? Top of the league. He had the fans, the players, the board, the staff – they loved Nigel Pearson and they hate you. You came back because of your big bloody ego but you’re not wanted here. This club will go into relegation and administration and you know it…"

[thorpie the sinner]

Then what are you waiting for man..? Get down there and do your stuff..!

 

The day Leon Crouch first opened his mouth and ranted [yes he did] about Saints, fans who heard him did a little mental step back. They weren't sure whether this man was the real deal. I thought he sounded like a bit of a knuckle dragger. But knuckle draggers don't have the nounce to head up multi-million pound businesses and make them thrive. They don't have personal fortunes in the millions either. So we have to give LC some credit for knowing the his way round a balance sheet, how hard to work, and how intelligent he needs to be.

 

But he's opened his mouth many times since, and it gets easier on the ear. Among the passionate words there is a lot of sense. There's no doubt the man is a fan. Anyone who can stand up in a AGM and throw down the gauntlet to the current Board, as he did, is not there for laughs. As to his tenure last season, I think he did OK. Not great, but he was finding out what it was all about heading up a football club. He dipped into his own pocket to save the odd situation, rather than let things fester. And yes, he let a debt build up, but I suspect it wasn't all of his own doing, and besides, he had one eye on actually trying to do something, rather than budget the club to relegation. Yes, he made mistakes. But he got it right in the end. Then, in the close season, all that he did was completely dismantled.

 

I think Saints would be higher up the table with LC in the Chair. I'm almost certain [certain..? how can anybody be completely sure, the rate Saints change managers] we would still have Nigel Pearson as Manager. I think LC would see the value of occasionally strengthening the squad, and transferring out the people who don't perform. Earlier in the season, I had a conversation with a friend who questioned my suggestion that... at most, 5,000 supporters were staying at home because of the present Board setup, such is the hatred of the present regime... Now I think there would be at least 5,000 extra supporters in the stadium. That's higher revenue, and it creates a better feeling all round.

 

So right at this very moment, I'm in the camp which would rather have LC at the helm; with of course, the ideal being that there is a complete takeover from a new, rich owner. What I'll be thinking at the end of the season, who knows..? Mark Wotte may have changed everything round. I bloody well hope he does, because I hate being a Saints supporter, and having no faith in the people who run the club.

 

 

Good post!! Kind of agree, can't argue with the passion of the man certainly

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Lowe's reply:

 

"You acted as the king maker to Michael Wilde. You acted as the king maker. You listened to it all and Mr Trant made a promise to me to put money in and didn’t do it. You are as much to blame. The club you inherited and became a director of and are now abdicating all responsibility – you were on the board, you were chairman."

 

[derry]

Then what are you waiting for man..? Get down there and do your stuff..!

 

The day Leon Crouch first opened his mouth and ranted [yes he did] about Saints, fans who heard him did a little mental step back. They weren't sure whether this man was the real deal. I thought he sounded like a bit of a knuckle dragger. But knuckle draggers don't have the nounce to head up multi-million pound businesses and make them thrive. They don't have personal fortunes in the millions either. So we have to give LC some credit for knowing the his way round a balance sheet, how hard to work, and how intelligent he needs to be.

 

But he's opened his mouth many times since, and it gets easier on the ear. Among the passionate words there is a lot of sense. There's no doubt the man is a fan. Anyone who can stand up in a AGM and throw down the gauntlet to the current Board, as he did, is not there for laughs. As to his tenure last season, I think he did OK. Not great, but he was finding out what it was all about heading up a football club. He dipped into his own pocket to save the odd situation, rather than let things fester. And yes, he let a debt build up, but I suspect it wasn't all of his own doing, and besides, he had one eye on actually trying to do something, rather than budget the club to relegation. Yes, he made mistakes. But he got it right in the end. Then, in the close season, all that he did was completely dismantled.

 

I think Saints would be higher up the table with LC in the Chair. I'm almost certain [certain..? how can anybody be completely sure, the rate Saints change managers] we would still have Nigel Pearson as Manager. I think LC would see the value of occasionally strengthening the squad, and transferring out the people who don't perform. Earlier in the season, I had a conversation with a friend who questioned my suggestion that... at most, 5,000 supporters were staying at home because of the present Board setup, such is the hatred of the present regime... Now I think there would be at least 5,000 extra supporters in the stadium. That's higher revenue, and it creates a better feeling all round.

 

So right at this very moment, I'm in the camp which would rather have LC at the helm; with of course, the ideal being that there is a complete takeover from a new, rich owner. What I'll be thinking at the end of the season, who knows..? Mark Wotte may have changed everything round. I bloody well hope he does, because I hate being a Saints supporter, and having no faith in the people who run the club.

 

It doesn't matter what happens on the playing side. Lowe is the most divisive person ever to be part of SFC. Until he severs his ties we cannot move forward.

[Plumstead_Saint]

Most of us realise the financial mess we are in, but Crouch is not alone in believing that someone else could do a better job under the same financial constraints.

 

The amount of money that has been wasted since Lowe returned has been criminal - the usual accumulation of a huge squad of average players not even good enough to get on the bench, coaching staff on "gardening leave" that we are obviously still paying.

 

Whoever has been scouting Gasmi, Pulis, Peckhardt, Smith, Robertson, etc., has cost this club a packet. Whoever he is, we don't even know, but he must be getting a fee or salary.

 

I think the vast majority of us would have swap one wage of either John or Rasiak for 6 other nonenties. We might have actually won a couple more home games that would have kept the crowds from dropping so drastically.

 

The vast majority of Championship clubs are working under very tight financial constraints, but most are better run than us. I'm not suprised Crouch thinks he can do a better job than Lowe - I'm pretty sure that I could too.

Good points well made, and worth repeating IMO.

Unlike the usual guff from the usual suspects that dominate this thread

[derry]

From the transcript of the last AGM...

 

Crouch to Lowe:

 

"The plan we are working on now is my plan but there is a difference. I would have had experienced players, loan players and free transfers, but you bought young ones and they’re not strong enough. You’re a disgrace. You have appointed a manager who is out of his depth and who hasn’t a clue. You’ve ****ed it up. Where is Nigel Pearson? Top of the league. He had the fans, the players, the board, the staff – they loved Nigel Pearson and they hate you. You came back because of your big bloody ego but you’re not wanted here. This club will go into relegation and administration and you know it…"

 

Sounds about right to me.

[Mole]

It doesn't matter what happens on the playing side. Lowe is the most divisive person ever to be part of SFC. Until he severs his ties we cannot move forward.

 

This is true. Most people recognise this.

[OldNick]

16,836 now, bit the season total average won't be that high! 10 mates came with me against Doncaster so thats 10 of the season average straight away, they all paid £25 each for itchen North, 9 had 2 pints at half time, 5 had a pie and 1 soppy tw4t had a bovril. I didn't say in my post the ticket price was £25 each game, I said that 7k @ £25 each which would take into account a pie and a pint or chocolate bar & pepsi!

 

Also your quite right about Crouch then not putting any money, i suppose you could argue that he'd of done the job anyway by reducing the overdraft to a manageable level??

If LC was chairman would we have got more at SMS for the Man u game? Surely that is the damning indightment about all of our posturing.Unless we are playing against Man U or in the the top 4 we will have low crowds compared to 2 seasons ago.The fans on here in the main bleed Saints.We think that the chairman counts.It does to a thousand or many be 2 but if it is a case of watching top teams that goes out of the window.

The simple fact is if we had somebody at the club who wiped the eebts and got a side together that was winning more than losing we would have gates of 22k plus probably closer to 25k.(considering the credit crunch etc)

Whether it be RL or LC in the directors box it is success that gets bu## on seats.

[St Landrew]

It doesn't matter what happens on the playing side. Lowe is the most divisive person ever to be part of SFC. Until he severs his ties we cannot move forward.

 

Yes, I entirely agree Derry. But we have to work with what we have, at present. We can fervently hope for a change in the Board setup, and we can protest towards a change. But Lowe & Co are at the helm at this moment, and we have to stomach it for a while. However painful that may be.

[St. Jason]

If LC was chairman would we have got more at SMS for the Man u game? Surely that is the damning indightment about all of our posturing.Unless we are playing against Man U or in the the top 4 we will have low crowds compared to 2 seasons ago.The fans on here in the main bleed Saints.We think that the chairman counts.It does to a thousand or many be 2 but if it is a case of watching top teams that goes out of the window.

The simple fact is if we had somebody at the club who wiped the eebts and got a side together that was winning more than losing we would have gates of 22k plus probably closer to 25k.(considering the credit crunch etc)

Whether it be RL or LC in the directors box it is success that gets bu## on seats.

 

 

Of course we wouldn't have got more in for that game, i don't blame fans for turning up for the glamour games and not the home league games, 1 win in 14 is terrible value. Remember mate, this is an entertainment business, we are being charged top dollar to watch second rate performers, wouldn't happen in any other entertainment. I mean, would you pay £55 pound to watch the 'silver Beatles' when last year you paid the same for 'The Beatles'??

[Nineteen Canteen]

if that is what he said im sorry but it is madness to come up with claims like that.

Yes NP is doing very well and Ihave no doubt he would have accumalated more points than Jan but we still would be losing at least 150k a week and so the finanacial pressure would be there.With a team thaqt was doing well we would indeed have had gates of 22-25k and that would add money into the club.Take off his wishing to look good to the fans and so buying/loaning high paid players , added to that him not getting rid of many as well and we wouldnt be any better off financially.

RL has made a massive mistake in not replacing Jan sooner but we are not cut adrift yet and we have to hope things get better.

LC's words do not help the fan as all it does is cause more division, LC come up with the money or stay out of the poilitics it is not helping our club

 

 

I agree, I haven't heard the interview but if he made the claim as quoted in the original thread it is simply a statement without any foundation. Did he attempt to qualify his comment? Crouch has been guilty from day one since he became chairman of pushing the boundaries of realism with wild fan friendly rhetoric that has amounted to nothing but false prophecies and empty promises.

 

Crouch's approach IMO has always been to pin his hopes on finding a suitable investor and not actually do anything about reducing costs in the meantime. Actions speak louder than words Leon and your action from where I'm standing was simply to wait. Pearson maybe doing well in the lower leagues but so did Ince and there was no evidence that Pearson could deliver with the necessary shift to youth based on his managerial performance whilst at the club. Remember with Crouch's backing pearson took as from safety of 18th to the relegation zone for our last two games whereby we needed favours from teams around us to avoid the drop. We won but still needed Leicester to slip up and Crouch and Pearson margin of error boiled down to a very tense 20 minutes so lets not put either on a pedastal as saviours/some great catch we let slip, they were put back in the water until they were big enough with good reason.

 

Lowe and Wilde have had the guts to make the changes and stand by them. Changes that Crouch should have instigated in January last year instead of simply talking about them as now he is simply coming across as overly smug and wise after the event the very traits his nemsis are accused of. Lowe has made mistakes but they were done in his belief he was and is working within the best course of action for Saints, Crouch's mistake was to do nothing other than on face of it, hope and dangle the carrot in front of fans willing to be his donkeys. The most dangerous enemy is the one you will be willingly to let in though your front door.

 

Crouch's credentials has a dedicated fan are undeniable but in football there is always the issue of letting heart and passion rule your head and ability. Crouch's meal mouthed rhetoric at the AGM, in the local press and now on the radio is not exactly helping his cause. In fact IMO he is embarrassing himself a bit like a fan's/teacher's pet always with his hand in the air screaming Miss, Miss!

 

FWIW Nick, I agree Lowe should have acted sooner with regard to JP but the same accusation should have been levelled at Crouch who was backing Burley up until the Scottish FA unbelievably saved us from a manager who had long since lost the plot. This time though it looks as though Lowe's promotion from within looks infinitely better than Crouch's without any of Crouch's / McMenemy's fanfare. I'd sooner have a Dutch coach with Wotte's background than a manager with 6 months experience in the Southern Conference league and a man deemed not suitable for a role above that of a scout. I hope Crouch didn't give the interview to Solent in his greenhouse.

[Give it to Ron]

So take away R Wright, Lucetti, Safri, Wright, Licka, Stern, Vignal, Jesus, Hammil, Viafara, 1/2 of Saga, + god knows how many others, you believe that Pearson will improve upon his results without these players? Anyone with any intelligence said at the time that relegation this season under Pearson was more than likely, which was not a reflection on Pearson but the position we were in. We have been lucky this season with some of the younger signings we have made, but trying to compete against League 1 sides (or lower) for the more experienced players has been a real problem.

 

Our gates have been declining markedly since relegation and if you believe that Pearson with a far depleted squad is going to go on winning runs which he never demonstrated previously, you are deluded. We hit record lows of 17000 last season and it has got worse this season. When you factor in the revenue from gates the picture is far worse, biased by cheap tickets and add ons similar to what we saw against Forest.

You can look at how well Pearson is doing at the present, but equally you could compare Doncaster and Forest between this and last season and it's impossible to put in a comparison of any worth. Forest could even go out and afford Rob Earnshaw, dreamland for us.

 

Loaned out! then add on the fact of all the other loans brought in at the time and the permanent signing of Davies. And as we subsequently find out, these loans of Rasiak and Skacel have a habit of coming back on your books, because other clubs are not prepared to pay those wages. So yes Crouch may have been ****ing on the bonfire with one hand, but he had the petrol pump fully open in the other hand.

 

You can say Crouch would have done this or done that, but in reality he did the square root of fook all. He clearly stated what his plan was to just sit there and wait for investment, some masterplan.

 

Well the current masterplan under your idol is really working well isn't it!

Lower gates, shocking squad of the poorest quality we have had, alienated and rampaging fan base .

Yes we would of lost the loanees you mentioned but would Pearson of brought in lesser quality than what we have now ? Only Pericard was a waste but I can see why he brought him in as we were lacking height and a big striker.

How do you know Pearson would of struggled...exactly you dont and you use that every time to disguise the fact that this Dutch experiment is a complete farce.

I do not hold up Pearson as a god and we only won 3 but only lost 3 as well.

He did not have the benefit of a pre-season like this Dutch joke of your idol.

Like I said I want all 3 out of the club but at least under Crouch he put right the Dodd/Gorman farce this lot again followed the same mistake for a 4th time!

[JohnnyFartPants]

If only he knew it all like you do. Considering Leon has been there and done it and you've still got the cradle marks on your arse i know who's press comments i'd rather read/listen to.

 

I think it was quite a reasonable thing to ask from Steve Grant, even though he has made a couple of glaring errors recently with his judgement. Considering LC was in charge just before Lowe came back and we were losing money hand over fist and always down the bottom of the table, why should we suppose differently?

[Nineteen Canteen]

Then what are you waiting for man..? Get down there and do your stuff..!

 

The day Leon Crouch first opened his mouth and ranted [yes he did] about Saints, fans who heard him did a little mental step back. They weren't sure whether this man was the real deal. I thought he sounded like a bit of a knuckle dragger. But knuckle draggers don't have the nounce to head up multi-million pound businesses and make them thrive. They don't have personal fortunes in the millions either. So we have to give LC some credit for knowing the his way round a balance sheet, how hard to work, and how intelligent he needs to be.

 

But he's opened his mouth many times since, and it gets easier on the ear. Among the passionate words there is a lot of sense. There's no doubt the man is a fan. Anyone who can stand up in a AGM and throw down the gauntlet to the current Board, as he did, is not there for laughs. As to his tenure last season, I think he did OK. Not great, but he was finding out what it was all about heading up a football club. He dipped into his own pocket to save the odd situation, rather than let things fester. And yes, he let a debt build up, but I suspect it wasn't all of his own doing, and besides, he had one eye on actually trying to do something, rather than budget the club to relegation. Yes, he made mistakes. But he got it right in the end. Then, in the close season, all that he did was completely dismantled.

 

I think Saints would be higher up the table with LC in the Chair. I'm almost certain [certain..? how can anybody be completely sure, the rate Saints change managers] we would still have Nigel Pearson as Manager. I think LC would see the value of occasionally strengthening the squad, and transferring out the people who don't perform. Earlier in the season, I had a conversation with a friend who questioned my suggestion that... at most, 5,000 supporters were staying at home because of the present Board setup, such is the hatred of the present regime... Now I think there would be at least 5,000 extra supporters in the stadium. That's higher revenue, and it creates a better feeling all round.

 

So right at this very moment, I'm in the camp which would rather have LC at the helm; with of course, the ideal being that there is a complete takeover from a new, rich owner. What I'll be thinking at the end of the season, who knows..? Mark Wotte may have changed everything round. I bloody well hope he does, because I hate being a Saints supporter, and having no faith in the people who run the club.

 

Knuckle draggers do have the ability to head up multi-million pound business and there are plenty of examples from local business through to listed companies in the UK, Europe and beyond. They are very clever and manage largely by fear and dirty tricks but that does not mean they have the business acumen to manage difficult situations usually because out of a combination of belief in their own hype, stubborness and no one willing to stand up to them. Their was an interesting article in the Times yesterday about the disgraced Lehman Brothers boss Richard Fuld aka the Gorilla - a knuckle dragger perhaps? I'm not implying anything, only to suggest that is a misconception that perceived knuckle draggers can't succeed in their area of expertise but it doesn't make them the best or most shrewd individual.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

I agree, I haven't heard the interview but if he made the claim as quoted in the original thread it is simply a statement without any foundation. Did he attempt to qualify his comment? Crouch has been guilty from day one since he became chairman of pushing the boundaries of realism with wild fan friendly rhetoric that has amounted to nothing but false prophecies and empty promises.

 

Crouch's approach IMO has always been to pin his hopes on finding a suitable investor and not actually do anything about reducing costs in the meantime. Actions speak louder than words Leon and your action from where I'm standing was simply to wait. Pearson maybe doing well in the lower leagues but so did Ince and there was no evidence that Pearson could deliver with the necessary shift to youth based on his managerial performance whilst at the club. Remember with Crouch's backing pearson took as from safety of 18th to the relegation zone for our last two games whereby we needed favours from teams around us to avoid the drop. We won but still needed Leicester to slip up and Crouch and Pearson margin of error boiled down to a very tense 20 minutes so lets not put either on a pedastal as saviours/some great catch we let slip, they were put back in the water until they were big enough with good reason.

 

Lowe and Wilde have had the guts to make the changes and stand by them. Changes that Crouch should have instigated in January last year instead of simply talking about them as now he is simply coming across as overly smug and wise after the event the very traits his nemsis are accused of. Lowe has made mistakes but they were done in his belief he was and is working within the best course of action for Saints, Crouch's mistake was to do nothing other than on face of it, hope and dangle the carrot in front of fans willing to be his donkeys. The most dangerous enemy is the one you will be willingly to let in though your front door.

 

Crouch's credentials has a dedicated fan are undeniable but in football there is always the issue of letting heart and passion rule your head and ability. Crouch's meal mouthed rhetoric at the AGM, in the local press and now on the radio is not exactly helping his cause. In fact IMO he is embarrassing himself a bit like a fan's/teacher's pet always with his hand in the air screaming Miss, Miss!

 

FWIW Nick, I agree Lowe should have acted sooner with regard to JP but the same accusation should have been levelled at Crouch who was backing Burley up until the Scottish FA unbelievably saved us from a manager who had long since lost the plot. This time though it looks as though Lowe's promotion from within looks infinitely better than Crouch's without any of Crouch's / McMenemy's fanfare. I'd sooner have a Dutch coach with Wotte's background than a manager with 6 months experience in the Southern Conference league and a man deemed not suitable for a role above that of a scout. I hope Crouch didn't give the interview to Solent in his greenhouse.

Well worded PR drivel and spin! Well done that man! lol

[St Landrew]

Knuckle draggers do have the ability to head up multi-million pound business and there are plenty of examples from local business through to listed companies in the UK, Europe and beyond. They are very clever and manage largely by fear and dirty tricks but that does not mean they have the business acumen to manage difficult situations usually because out of a combination of belief in their own hype, stubborness and no one willing to stand up to them. Their was an interesting article in the Times yesterday about the disgraced Lehman Brothers boss Richard Fuld aka the Gorilla - a knuckle dragger perhaps? I'm not implying anything, only to suggest that is a misconception that perceived knuckle draggers can't succeed in their area of expertise but it doesn't make them the best or most shrewd individual.

 

Point taken. Shall I amend my post by saying that generally knuckle draggers don't head up multi-million pound businesses, and that it usually takes someone of reasonable intelligence.

[JustMike]

Most of us realise the financial mess we are in, but Crouch is not alone in believing that someone else could do a better job under the same financial constraints.

 

The amount of money that has been wasted since Lowe returned has been criminal - the usual accumulation of a huge squad of average players not even good enough to get on the bench, coaching staff on "gardening leave" that we are obviously still paying.

 

Whoever has been scouting Gasmi, Pulis, Peckhardt, Smith, Robertson, etc., has cost this club a packet. Whoever he is, we don't even know, but he must be getting a fee or salary.

 

I think the vast majority of us would have swap one wage of either John or Rasiak for 6 other nonenties. We might have actually won a couple more home games that would have kept the crowds from dropping so drastically.

 

The vast majority of Championship clubs are working under very tight financial constraints, but most are better run than us. I'm not suprised Crouch thinks he can do a better job than Lowe - I'm pretty sure that I could too.

 

brilliant post!

[aintforever]

Crouch is right, with the right manager we could be up towards the other end of the devision. There are teams with less resources higher up.

 

We have brought in 13-14 players now, plus we have some talent already here so anything was possible this season. Lowe has ****ed it all up for everyone.

[Ponty]

saying if he was chairman we would be other end of table, bigger crowds and no financial problems - solent interview

He talks sh*t, like all the others.

[JustMike]

I agree, I haven't heard the interview but if he made the claim as quoted in the original thread it is simply a statement without any foundation. Did he attempt to qualify his comment? Crouch has been guilty from day one since he became chairman of pushing the boundaries of realism with wild fan friendly rhetoric that has amounted to nothing but false prophecies and empty promises.

 

Crouch's approach IMO has always been to pin his hopes on finding a suitable investor and not actually do anything about reducing costs in the meantime. Actions speak louder than words Leon and your action from where I'm standing was simply to wait. Pearson maybe doing well in the lower leagues but so did Ince and there was no evidence that Pearson could deliver with the necessary shift to youth based on his managerial performance whilst at the club. Remember with Crouch's backing pearson took as from safety of 18th to the relegation zone for our last two games whereby we needed favours from teams around us to avoid the drop. We won but still needed Leicester to slip up and Crouch and Pearson margin of error boiled down to a very tense 20 minutes so lets not put either on a pedastal as saviours/some great catch we let slip, they were put back in the water until they were big enough with good reason.

 

Lowe and Wilde have had the guts to make the changes and stand by them. Changes that Crouch should have instigated in January last year instead of simply talking about them as now he is simply coming across as overly smug and wise after the event the very traits his nemsis are accused of. Lowe has made mistakes but they were done in his belief he was and is working within the best course of action for Saints, Crouch's mistake was to do nothing other than on face of it, hope and dangle the carrot in front of fans willing to be his donkeys. The most dangerous enemy is the one you will be willingly to let in though your front door.

 

Crouch's credentials has a dedicated fan are undeniable but in football there is always the issue of letting heart and passion rule your head and ability. Crouch's meal mouthed rhetoric at the AGM, in the local press and now on the radio is not exactly helping his cause. In fact IMO he is embarrassing himself a bit like a fan's/teacher's pet always with his hand in the air screaming Miss, Miss!

 

FWIW Nick, I agree Lowe should have acted sooner with regard to JP but the same accusation should have been levelled at Crouch who was backing Burley up until the Scottish FA unbelievably saved us from a manager who had long since lost the plot. This time though it looks as though Lowe's promotion from within looks infinitely better than Crouch's without any of Crouch's / McMenemy's fanfare. I'd sooner have a Dutch coach with Wotte's background than a manager with 6 months experience in the Southern Conference league and a man deemed not suitable for a role above that of a scout. I hope Crouch didn't give the interview to Solent in his greenhouse.

 

please remove your head from lowes arse..thank you

[OldNick]

 

 

FWIW Nick, I agree Lowe should have acted sooner with regard to JP but the same accusation should have been levelled at Crouch who was backing Burley up until the Scottish FA unbelievably saved us from a manager who had long since lost the plot. This time though it looks as though Lowe's promotion from within looks infinitely better than Crouch's without any of Crouch's / McMenemy's fanfare. I'd sooner have a Dutch coach with Wotte's background than a manager with 6 months experience in the Southern Conference league and a man deemed not suitable for a role above that of a scout. I hope Crouch didn't give the interview to Solent in his greenhouse.

NC you will get abused by your posts and at present you have had the dignity not to bite back.

As for the para above I chuckled slightly as i was very much in the let GB do his job camp and so cannot argue with LC for keeping him here.Jan was a different proposition to my mind as he had a language,tactics, and motivation problem

[OldNick]

brilliant post!

if you are in agreement of course

[St Landrew]

Most of us realise the financial mess we are in, but Crouch is not alone in believing that someone else could do a better job under the same financial constraints.

 

The amount of money that has been wasted since Lowe returned has been criminal - the usual accumulation of a huge squad of average players not even good enough to get on the bench, coaching staff on "gardening leave" that we are obviously still paying.

 

Whoever has been scouting Gasmi, Pulis, Peckhardt, Smith, Robertson, etc., has cost this club a packet. Whoever he is, we don't even know, but he must be getting a fee or salary.

 

I think the vast majority of us would have swap one wage of either John or Rasiak for 6 other nonenties. We might have actually won a couple more home games that would have kept the crowds from dropping so drastically.

 

The vast majority of Championship clubs are working under very tight financial constraints, but most are better run than us. I'm not suprised Crouch thinks he can do a better job than Lowe - I'm pretty sure that I could too.

 

Missed this post before. Completely agree.

[hypochondriac]

Christ.

 

I thought he'd perhaps turned a corner with his much-more-reasonable comments in the Echo, but clearly not.

 

Bigger crowds? Probably, I'll give him that one.

Other end of the table? Really? Seriously?!

No financial problems? How?

 

If you listened to the interview he comes off quite reasonable IMO.

[Snowballs2]

Knuckle draggers do have the ability to head up multi-million pound business and there are plenty of examples from local business through to listed companies in the UK, Europe and beyond. They are very clever and manage largely by fear and dirty tricks but that does not mean they have the business acumen to manage difficult situations usually because out of a combination of belief in their own hype, stubborness and no one willing to stand up to them. Their was an interesting article in the Times yesterday about the disgraced Lehman Brothers boss Richard Fuld aka the Gorilla - a knuckle dragger perhaps? I'm not implying anything, only to suggest that is a misconception that perceived knuckle draggers can't succeed in their area of expertise but it doesn't make them the best or most shrewd individual.

 

 

I wonder just how many of the pro Lowe and pro Wilde camp are getting some sort of beneficial free seats at SMS? I wonder if this is why they still have a little support