Shea Charles

[disconnect]

Seems the loan is doing what it was intended for, and we'll be getting back a better player than when he left.

[Barsiem]

1 hour ago, disconnect said:

Seems the loan is doing what it was intended for, and we'll be getting back a better player than when he left.

Hopefully we don't end up selling him like we did Tella!  But yeah, great to see him doing so well

[It's There]

Can Shea Charles be recalled in January?

 

[Charlie Wayman]

4 hours ago, Greenridge said:

He's seemingly doing OK in a team lying 15th in the Championship hence my comment wrt our predicament in the PL. I've not seen him this season other than the 1-0 defeat to Sheffield Utd where he was far from stand out. Actually, I wouldn't have noticed him at all if it wasn't for the SFC connection. I know we like to think all our best players are at other clubs on loan or the result of a cheap sale but he's not one of them. 

But I do agree with you in that he needs a run in a team and that's what he's getting at SW.

I remember we let Harrison Reed go to Fuham to gain experience as Rabbit Hutch deemed him not good enough for Saints. Ironically he will be playing in the PL still when Saints will not.

[Maggie May]

9 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Funnily enough thriving under a good manager who plays non-ponderous higher energy football (although anything slower than Russball is like the WBA fan who fell asleep in the away end last year). 

Albeit for a team performing much, much worse than a team who played Russball in the same league last year. 

[StrangelyBrown]

On 20/11/2024 at 18:35, It's There said:

Can Shea Charles be recalled in January?

 

Probably not worth it while Martin is here. We will need to minimise the scar tissue before Martin tries to get promoted next season and let's face it Martin isn't going anywhere anytime soon - otherwise he'd be gone already.

[Chewy]

10 hours ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Probably not worth it while Martin is here. We will need to minimise the scar tissue before Martin tries to get promoted next season and let's face it Martin isn't going anywhere anytime soon - otherwise he'd be gone already.

I’d agree. I think there’s a player in there, especially as a traditional, more destructive dm. It’s why he’s currently excelling. Bring him back and he’ll either be played out of position or asked to do things he’s not entirely equipped to do, which is what happened last season. It’ll damage his confidence and stunt his development.

Ideally he returns, with a new manager, and develops into a solid dm for us. I think he could be very good. Next best thing is he does get a move that develops him and returns our investment. Bringing him back now under RM would be a bad option IMHO

[Dman]

On 20/11/2024 at 22:10, Maggie May said:

Albeit for a team performing much, much worse than a team who played Russball in the same league last year. 

albeit for a team who are player for player much, much worse than the the players russball had in teh same league last year. 

Rohl's achivements are far greater than Martins. 

[Maggie May]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

albeit for a team who are player for player much, much worse than the the players russball had in teh same league last year. 

Rohl's achivements are far greater than Martins. 

Give over. 

[Dman]

11 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Give over. 

He's taken a team full of L1 players, who were destined for relegation, to mid-table championship (without any significant investment) in 18 months. 

Martin achieved the bare minimum expected last season and finished 4th in a 3 horse race and has spectacularly failed this season. 

Pound for Pound, Rohl's achivements have been greater and who knows what he'd be able to achieve at a side with greater resources (i.e us). All if and buts, but I'm almost certain Rohl will go on to have a more sucessful career than Martin. 

[AlexLaw76]

36 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Give over. 

Who has over achieved?

[Harry_SFC]

4 hours ago, Chewy said:

I’d agree. I think there’s a player in there, especially as a traditional, more destructive dm. It’s why he’s currently excelling. Bring him back and he’ll either be played out of position or asked to do things he’s not entirely equipped to do, which is what happened last season. It’ll damage his confidence and stunt his development.

Ideally he returns, with a new manager, and develops into a solid dm for us. I think he could be very good. Next best thing is he does get a move that develops him and returns our investment. Bringing him back now under RM would be a bad option IMHO

Yep, seems better at the off the ball stuff (no use for a RM side). Just seen that statistically he's been the best CDM in the league so far this season. 

Edited 22 November, 2024 by Harry_SFC

[Maggie May]

5 hours ago, Dman said:

He's taken a team full of L1 players, who were destined for relegation, to mid-table championship (without any significant investment) in 18 months. 

Martin achieved the bare minimum expected last season and finished 4th in a 3 horse race and has spectacularly failed this season. 

Pound for Pound, Rohl's achivements have been greater and who knows what he'd be able to achieve at a side with greater resources (i.e us). All if and buts, but I'm almost certain Rohl will go on to have a more sucessful career than Martin. 

Fair enough but I feel Martin will have a better career than Rohl. 

[Disco Stu]

On 22/11/2024 at 17:08, Maggie May said:

Fair enough but I feel Martin will have a better career than Rohl. 

Not a chance.

[sambosa75]

Let’s get real here.  He was proper shit last season.  Other than Larios, by far the worst signing we’ve made from City or Chelsea’s academy.  Just because he’s doing okay on loan in the league below doesn’t automatically mean he should be brought back and put straight in the side.

[Colinjb]

20 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

Let’s get real here.  He was proper shit last season.  Other than Larios, by far the worst signing we’ve made from City or Chelsea’s academy.  Just because he’s doing okay on loan in the league below doesn’t automatically mean he should be brought back and put straight in the side.

Or, maybe it shows that when used to his strengths rather then shoehorned into a system that may not suit he is quite capable. 

Should Martin eventually and rightfully be sacked, Charles would be an asset next year when we inevitably return to the championship. 

[BotleySaint]

Martin's possession based game requires players who are technically good on the ball, comfortable in possession, mixed range of passing etc. But it's impossible to have a team full of players like that. Some footballers are just limited in that regard, or are better at quick, direct, attacking play. Or better at winning the ball back and giving it to someone else to play forward. They don't just want to hog the ball and do nothing.

Russell's style drains the energy and enthusiasm out of even the better players and especially puts young, inexperienced players who don't fit his style on the back foot.

Shea was a victim of that under Martin. I suspect he's happy to be playing football again and not keepball.

Edited 23 November, 2024 by BotleySaint

[Osvaldorama]

10 hours ago, sambosa75 said:

Let’s get real here.  He was proper shit last season.  Other than Larios, by far the worst signing we’ve made from City or Chelsea’s academy.  Just because he’s doing okay on loan in the league below doesn’t automatically mean he should be brought back and put straight in the side.

Shows how bad Martin is tbh 

 

Made the best CM in the championship look terrible because of his awful obsession with passing backwards 

 

 

[Harry_SFC]

15 hours ago, BotleySaint said:

Martin's possession based game requires players who are technically good on the ball, comfortable in possession, mixed range of passing etc. But it's impossible to have a team full of players like that. Some footballers are just limited in that regard, or are better at quick, direct, attacking play. Or better at winning the ball back and giving it to someone else to play forward. They don't just want to hog the ball and do nothing.

Russell's style drains the energy and enthusiasm out of even the better players and especially puts young, inexperienced players who don't fit his style on the back foot.

Shea was a victim of that under Martin. I suspect he's happy to be playing football again and not keepball.

Can you imagine Victor Wanyama playing for RM. Well that's the problem - he wouldn't get in the side. Appalling passer of the ball but for two seasons dominated some of the best midfielders in the league due to just how bloody good he was as a destroyer. He left Schneiderlin and Davis to do the pretty stuff.

[a1ex2001]

On 22/11/2024 at 17:08, Maggie May said:

Fair enough but I feel Martin will have a better career than Rohl. 

I’d swap managers with Wednesday in a heart beat!

[Harry_SFC]

[Harry_SFC]

Northern Ireland and Sheffield Wednesday fans absolutely love him. 

[Convict Colony]

3 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Sort of opposite of what Stoke fans were saying about smallbone 🤣

Glad he's developing and playing well, hopefully it's enough for Martin if he's still here that he is ready to hold the CM position with Downes or someone else.

[tdmickey3]

On 27/11/2024 at 07:34, Harry_SFC said:

Northern Ireland and Sheffield Wednesday fans absolutely love him. 

He`s playing proper football under a sensible coach... no chance of that here

Edited 28 November, 2024 by tdmickey3

[AlexLaw76]

Is he being asked to play like a CB and fanny around with the ball in his defensive 3rd?

[saintant]

He will develop better without Russell telling him where he's going wrong - as will most players.

[S-Clarke]

He was horrendously misused last season, it wasn't even funny.

Started the season as a CB for no reason, then when we did need that extra power in midfield when Downes was out, he'd persist with Smallbone and Aribo - and low and behold we got overrun, even at that level. There was chat that he wasn't good enough with the ball, but I call out bollocks on that. He's a footballer, he can pass the ball. End of discussion.

A season like this will probably rocket his value though, so SR are going to be looking at the $$$$ in the summer.

Edited 28 November, 2024 by S-Clarke

[saintant]

3 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

He was horrendously misused last season, it wasn't even funny.

Started the season as a CB for no reason, then when we did need that extra power in midfield when Downes was out, he'd persist with Smallbone and Aribo - and low and behold we got overrun, even at that level. There was chat that he wasn't good enough with the ball, but I call out bollocks on that. He's a footballer, he can pass the ball. End of discussion.

A season like this will probably rocket his value though, so SR are going to be looking at the $$$$ in the summer.

I think he'd be prefect in a double pivot with Downes but Russell's never heard of such a thing.

[skintsaint]

 

 

[Saint86]

30 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

 

 

Filling in the blanks. I can see that that would piss off the Wednesday Chairman... 😂 Recall him at the last minute, ending their playoff hopes, and then giving him to their bitter rivals. Not sure why we'd want to put ourselves into the middle of that particular rivalry though - even if we are pissed off with their chairman! 

[Baird of the land]

39 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

 

 

Would anger me if that's the rationale for recalling him rather than playing him ourselves.

[Fabrice29]

5 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Would anger me if that's the rationale for recalling him rather than playing him ourselves.

Cant honestly believe if Juric wanted to see him play for us then we wouldn't have done it earlier whilst Downes was out. Now Downes and Smallbone are back I don't see the motivation being we suddenly want him to play. Maybe I'm wrong. There's also reports he's got to wait 7 days before coming back to us so will be available for Sheffield Wednesday for their next two games, which would suggest they are still being pressed to pay a fee to continue to keep him longer.

Edited January 16 by Fabrice29

[tdmickey3]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

Cant honestly believe if Juric wanted to see him play for us then we wouldn't have done it earlier whilst Downes was out. Now Downes and Smallbone are back I don't see the motivation being we suddenly want him to play. Maybe I'm wrong. There's also reports he's got to wait 7 days before coming back to us so will be available for Sheffield Wednesday for their next two games, which would suggest they are still being pressed to pay a fee to continue to keep him longer.

Smallbone.... HAHAHAHAHA

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Smallbone.... HAHAHAHAHA

What’s your point? Neither has shown themselves to be anything beyond average Championship players so far.

[austsaint]

On 28/11/2024 at 23:39, S-Clarke said:

He was horrendously misused last season, it wasn't even funny.

Started the season as a CB for no reason, then when we did need that extra power in midfield when Downes was out, he'd persist with Smallbone and Aribo - and low and behold we got overrun, even at that level. There was chat that he wasn't good enough with the ball, but I call out bollocks on that. He's a footballer, he can pass the ball. End of discussion.

A season like this will probably rocket his value though, so SR are going to be looking at the $$$$ in the summer.

Completely agree.  Charles was poorly managed by Martin.  Just take a line through Will Smallbone, a player Martin placed a lot of faith in while sending SC out on loan.  Charles, some 4 or 5 years younger than WS and clearly on an improving trajectory - he can now benefit Saints next season in the Championship or be sold for a reasonable fee; let’s hope it’s the former.

[tdmickey3]

20 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

What’s your point? Neither has shown themselves to be anything beyond average Championship players so far.

IMO Charles is better suited to Juric team where as Smallbone is slow, predictable, weak in the tackle and not suitable to him

[davefizzy14]

I think Charles fits into a Jurić team. So isn't it right that he won't officially return for another 7 days? 

Edited January 16 by davefizzy14

[Matthew Le God]

26 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

So isnit right that he won't officially return for another 7 days? 

Correct...

 

[Sparkkyy]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Correct...

 

Sounds good to me. Nothing official yet but no smoke without fire as they say….

[SNSUN]

Bring Charles on tonight instead of Smallbone and it might have been a different story. Hoping he's the DM we need to solidfy when needed. Wednesday fans seem gutted he's left.

[Roo1976]

10 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

What’s your point? Neither has shown themselves to be anything beyond average Championship players so far.

none of our midfield has, have they.

[Monk]

All rather strange isn't it, especially the nutter that owns Wednesday. Would be massively concerned for any footballing decision where we recall him only to loan Shea to their rivals. So I've drawn a couple of non informative or sensible scenarios;

 

Sheffield United will have an obligatory purchase upon promotion and a typical inflated British player fee.

Chansiri pissed the SFC board (those fucking idiots) off during the initial (rumoured) Danny Rohl approach and it's them sticking two fingers up at that wally. 

 

Cue MLG.....

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, Monk said:

Sheffield United will have an obligatory purchase upon promotion and a typical inflated British player fee.

Chansiri pissed the SFC board (those fucking idiots) off during the initial (rumoured) Danny Rohl approach and it's them sticking two fingers up at that wally. 

 

Cue MLG.....

Yeah i thought this myself, seems like he blocked Rohl joining and now we are getting payback.

Edited January 17 by Convict Colony

[S-Clarke]

I don't see what Charles would add to us for the rest of this season, whatever we do between now and May is irrelevant as we're just playing friendly matches - so let him play competitive football and get ready for us next season. As I've said before, some players won't ever recover from seasons like we're having - so let's not bring in players like him to this shower, let him continue to develop in a competitive environment.

My cynical side is expecting us to agree a loan to another Champ side, with a buy clause if they get promoted, so we'll probably never see him next year anyway.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't see what Charles would add to us for the rest of this season, whatever we do between now and May is irrelevant as we're just playing friendly matches - so let him play competitive football and get ready for us next season. As I've said before, some players won't ever recover from seasons like we're having - so let's not bring in players like him to this shower, let him continue to develop in a competitive environment.

My cynical side is expecting us to agree a loan to another Champ side, with a buy clause if they get promoted, so we'll probably never see him next year anyway.

I get your point but he'd be coming into a squad coached by Ivan Juric who clearly has more idea and better credentials than the bloke before him so a good chance for Charles to learn from someone who has a clue about how football should be played.

[Ken Tone]

Given Downes got booked yet again last night, it's only a matter of time till he's suspended injured again, leaving only big Les as a defensive midfielder . (Don't really see Aribo as DM

Charles is the obvious back up and/or alternative. And he played as CB and even RB for us so can cover lots of positions.

Clearly we're doomed to relegation this season,  but we can improve and regain some confidence as last night showed - and there's a cup run possible.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't see what Charles would add to us for the rest of this season, whatever we do between now and May is irrelevant as we're just playing friendly matches - so let him play competitive football and get ready for us next season. As I've said before, some players won't ever recover from seasons like we're having - so let's not bring in players like him to this shower, let him continue to develop in a competitive environment.

My cynical side is expecting us to agree a loan to another Champ side, with a buy clause if they get promoted, so we'll probably never see him next year anyway.

Really? Wouldn’t you rather have seen him come on instead of Smallbone?

[sadoldgit]

58 minutes ago, Ken Tone said:

Given Downes got booked yet again last night, it's only a matter of time till he's suspended injured again, leaving only big Les as a defensive midfielder . (Don't really see Aribo as DM

Charles is the obvious back up and/or alternative. And he played as CB and even RB for us so can cover lots of positions.

Clearly we're doomed to relegation this season,  but we can improve and regain some confidence as last night showed - and there's a cup run possible.

I agree. We need to be building for the next season so that we hit the ground running. I’d like to see us play a solid core of players here now who will have the job of getting us back up (and staying up) next season. 

[Winnersaint]

He’s having a good game ar Elland Rd. Joe Rothwell still shit

Edited January 19 by Winnersaint

[spyinthesky]

Valery, Rothwell and Shea Charles all with Saints connections.

Big difference in the standard of football with Premiership but competitive and the question is will a Saints team devoid of a few better players be in the frame for another return to the Prem.