Shea Charles

[Saint Garrett]

This guy could be absolutely phenomenal. Looks a fantastic prospect, genuinely really excited about this signing. 

[Saint Gifford]

Fair play, we are buying really good young players from clearly good stock as RM has said from Man City.

Good business model from them selling good young players to get experience and game time.

It would take a miracle for these lads to get a first team game with probably the best club team on the planet. 
 

I am assuming there are water tight buy backs for those who make the grade, so great for us and Man City. 
 

I just hope that we keep our options open with a couple of “old heads”, as the Championship isn’t exactly renowned for its technical or ticki tacki players as a whole. 
 

 

 

 

 

[FarehamSaintJames]

All these people going “what a player”, is he?

Has anyone seen him play?

Fair question, in my eyes he’s just another kid we’ve taken a punt on. Reason I’m dubious is on one end of the scale you have Romeo Lavia, and on the other Sam Edozie. 🤷🏻‍♂️😂

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

All these people going “what a player”, is he?

Has anyone seen him play?

Fair question, in my eyes he’s just another kid we’ve taken a punt on. Reason I’m dubious is on one end of the scale you have Romeo Lavia, and on the other Sam Edozie. 🤷🏻‍♂️😂

Course they haven’t no one will have heard of him this time last week. 🤣🤣

[hypochondriac]

34 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

All these people going “what a player”, is he?

Has anyone seen him play?

Fair question, in my eyes he’s just another kid we’ve taken a punt on. Reason I’m dubious is on one end of the scale you have Romeo Lavia, and on the other Sam Edozie. 🤷🏻‍♂️😂

No idea what he's like but Tino was great and it was reported we best some top clubs to his signing and it's been reported that Dortmund were in for this guy so it's a good sign. 

[HarvSFC]

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

No idea what he's like but Tino was great and it was reported we best some top clubs to his signing and it's been reported that Dortmund were in for this guy so it's a good sign. 

You also don't get into the Man City first team squad/play minutes in the Premier League for them if you haven't got something about you. Not seen him play, but everything seems positive about him so far. £10m is also a big outlay for a Championship club, so you'd hope Wilcox wouldn't just throw it on someone who's not ready yet.

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

You also don't get into the Man City first team squad/play minutes in the Premier League for them if you haven't got something about you. Not seen him play, but everything seems positive about him so far. £10m is also a big outlay for a Championship club, so you'd hope Wilcox wouldn't just throw it on someone who's not ready yet.

You'd think if City have some sort of unofficial linkup with us, it would be in their interest to sell us some decent players to increase our chances of getting back up and giving their players some chances against the best opposition. Deals like Lavia are a bit like a posh loan if they tighten up their buy back deals. 

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

All these people going “what a player”, is he?

Has anyone seen him play?

Fair question, in my eyes he’s just another kid we’ve taken a punt on. Reason I’m dubious is on one end of the scale you have Romeo Lavia, and on the other Sam Edozie. 🤷🏻‍♂️😂

Yes. Seen him play in nearly all of his NI games (being from NI). Very assured on the ball. We're obviously not very good, but we still have some decent players from lower Prem and Championship sides and Shea has stood out in games. 

Hes not on Lavia's level, but hes not far off. On another note, Edozie has the potential to shine in the Championship this season.

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

No idea what he's like but Tino was great and it was reported we best some top clubs to his signing and it's been reported that Dortmund were in for this guy so it's a good sign. 

Edozie was meant to be better than Jayden Sancho 🤣🤣

[Turkish]

7 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

Yes. Seen him play in nearly all of his NI games (being from NI). Very assured on the ball. We're obviously not very good, but we still have some decent players from lower Prem and Championship sides and Shea has stood out in games. 

Hes not on Lavia's level, but hes not far off. On another note, Edozie has the potential to cook in the Championship this season.

Fixed it for you 

[kristian]

14 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

All these people going “what a player”, is he?

Has anyone seen him play?

Fair question, in my eyes he’s just another kid we’ve taken a punt on. Reason I’m dubious is on one end of the scale you have Romeo Lavia, and on the other Sam Edozie. 🤷🏻‍♂️😂

Sam Edozie was very clearly never one of City's top academy prospects (and despite this was still better than our senior wide options last season). Borges, Medube, McAtee, Palmer, Kayky and Bobb were always all ahead of him at City - that's a lot of incredible talent to be up against. To compare, Lavia and Charles were consistent and key players in the heart of their title winning sides and at a younger age then Edozie was.

[Dman]

Been managed very badly by Martin. 
 

Simply has to play when Downes is out. No thrills but protects the defence significantly better than anyone else we’ve tried. 

[Harry_SFC]

Just now, Dman said:

Been managed very badly by Martin. 
 

Simply has to play when Downes is out. No thrills but protects the defence significantly better than anyone else we’ve tried. 

Yep everyone can see it. Martin loves Smallbone though because he's great at passing sideways and backwards. Shame he can't do anything else.

[Block41 Saint]

Leicester signed Winks for less. Woeful waste of money. 

[Dman]

6 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Yep everyone can see it. Martin loves Smallbone though because he's great at passing sideways and backwards. Shame he can't do anything else.

Play the 2 together if you must. He did at WBA, it worked a treat. And Whilst not great, we were solid first half against Bristol. 
 

we cannot play 3 attack minded CM’s, it’s fucking crazy. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Block41 Saint said:

Leicester signed Winks for less. Woeful waste of money. 

Wages though. Charles will be on something like 10k a week, Winks is supposedly on upwards of 60k. We would have never spent that much on wages.

[Block41 Saint]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Wages though. Charles will be on something like 10k a week, Winks is supposedly on upwards of 60k. We would have never spent that much on wages.

You're making an assumption there. 

Shea Charles is the biggest transfer fee in the Championship this season.  He should be a top player at this level but he's a 3rd choice, at best, CM for us. 

[revolution saint]

Have to say it’s a poor transfer right now. I imagine he was bought as a first choice defensive midfielder and the manager doesn’t trust him even when he has no other options in that position.

Personally I’d play him but if Martin doesn’t think he’s up to it then the club should never have bought him in the first place.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Block41 Saint said:

You're making an assumption there. 

Shea Charles is the biggest transfer fee in the Championship this season.  He should be a top player at this level but he's a 3rd choice, at best, CM for us. 

how can a championship club spend £10m on two players in one window, one has been injured since he joined, the other even 2nd choice in his preferred position, it beggars belief. 

[Block41 Saint]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

how can a championship club spend £10m on two players in one window, one has been injured since he joined, the other even 2nd choice in his preferred position, it beggars belief. 

It amazes me that people want to cut the people calling the shots slack on that. £20m down the fucking drain on shite. 

[AlexLaw76]

Terrible transfer, or terribly managed?

 

or both?

[Osvaldorama]

He’s been fairly crap when called upon, but he absolutely has to play when Downes is injured.

Without someone to break up play and get in faces the entire team is a mess. I don’t know how everyone can see this except Martin.

 

Why do we always seem to have managers that ignore the blindingly obvious? FFS

 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

He’s been fairly crap when called upon, but he absolutely has to play when Downes is injured.

Without someone to break up play and get in faces the entire team is a mess. I don’t know how everyone can see this except Martin.

 

Why do we always seem to have managers that ignore the blindingly obvious? FFS

 

Because for years we’ve believed we are reinventing football, we are special and do things differently. 

[Wade Garrett]

He’s played more games for us in  other positions that in his best position.  Poorly managed.

 

[Wade Garrett]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Because for years we’ve believed we are reinventing football, we are special and do things differently. 

I know.  The shit coming from our PR is embarrassing.

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

He’s been fairly crap when called upon, but he absolutely has to play when Downes is injured.

Without someone to break up play and get in faces the entire team is a mess. I don’t know how everyone can see this except Martin.

 

Why do we always seem to have managers that ignore the blindingly obvious? FFS

 

The last time he played in Downes position, in that formation, not only was he subbed off at half time because he'd been so poor, but he was actively moved out of that position roughly 30 minutes in. But yeah, blindingly obvious.

[Saint NL]

https://x.com/TheStatsSaint/status/1761467457456181707?s=20

 

That's quite the stat

 

 

[Osvaldorama]

What has this lad done to Martin? 
 

Why is Martin willing to risk putting a CB into midfield instead of playing him, despite a number of good performances?

Huge mistake yesterday that nearly cost us imo.
 

Charles is young and learning but he wouldn’t have let their attacker waltz through the middle like Stephens did yesterday. Thoroughly barmy management. I defended Martin and like him a lot, but he undervalues the defensive midfield position so much. You can’t just chuck random players in there  

 

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

What has this lad done to Martin? 
 

Why is Martin willing to risk putting a CB into midfield instead of playing him, despite a number of good performances?

Huge mistake yesterday that nearly cost us imo.
 

Charles is young and learning but he wouldn’t have let their attacker waltz through the middle like Stephens did yesterday. Thoroughly barmy management. I defended Martin and like him a lot, but he undervalues the defensive midfield position so much. You can’t just chuck random players in there  

 

Yes, not even on the bench although we had used our five substitutes when Stephens moved into midfield obscurity.

I have a feeling that we are going to need Charles for the run in.

[trousers]

12 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

What has this lad done to Martin? 
 

Why is Martin willing to risk putting a CB into midfield instead of playing him, despite a number of good performances?

Huge mistake yesterday that nearly cost us imo.
 

Charles is young and learning but he wouldn’t have let their attacker waltz through the middle like Stephens did yesterday. Thoroughly barmy management. I defended Martin and like him a lot, but he undervalues the defensive midfield position so much. You can’t just chuck random players in there  

 

I'm inclined to agree although, in Martin's defence perhaps, Charles has been somewhat inconsistent in the games he has played, so that might be praying on Martin's mind somewhat... ?

(With the usual apologies to the fence-sitting police for seeking to understand the alternative point of view... )

Edited April 14 by trousers

[coalman]

Totally agree. He may not have arrived as the finished article but he's not far from it and he's not getting there unless we give him minutes on the pitch to improve.

Yesterday's bench had 3 wingers, 2 attack minded midfielders and 1 attacker on it. There was no way all of those were going to come on and we didn't have cover for a key position of the tactical ability to shore up the midfield once they realised they could overrun it. I'm not counting moving Jack Stephens into midfield as a viable option.

I guess part of the problem is we have so many loanees in attacking midfield positions - Fraser, Brooks, Rothwell - that he's hell bent on juggling minutes for. This is also particularly harsh on Edozie who has done nothing wrong yet finds himself behind the three of them. To top that off he also seems to want to juggle in Sulemana who has shown nothing this season.

As well as lacking defensive options in midfield and leaving us open to conceding goals it's also getting in the way of developing upcoming talents like Dibling and Amo-Ameyaw. We didn't have a single player on the bench from the youth teams yesterday - which we were doing so well during our unbeaten run. Neither of them have let us down when they've come on and they really deserve a pathway into the first team.

 

[coalman]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

I'm inclined to agree although, in Martin's defence perhaps, Charles has been somewhat inconsistent in the games he has played, so that might be praying on Martin's mind somewhat... ?

One could argue that, goals aside, Rothwell hasn't been exactly consistent in that role. He's looked suspect as a midfielder until he gets into the box where his finishing has been excellent. Same goes for Brooks who has had some nice touches but seems to have unsettled our system. Stu is also going through a bit of a rough patch at the moment. Manning was excellent yesterday but had previously been inconsistent.

With our other loanees - THB has been immense at CB, Downes has been the same in DM and Fraser has given us a real direct cutting edge whenever he's come on.

Whilst we don't know what's going through Martin's head or how hes' worked together with Wilcox in bringing in players. There does seem to be a focus on midfielders who can attack to the point of unbalancing the side. Whether that's Wilcox or Martin having gone to Wilcox and saying "I want more attacking midfielders" we'll never know. We do know Martin picks the side and the bench would indicate he's focused on attacking options to the exclusion of covering other positions.

Edited April 14 by coalman

[S-Clarke]

I think there's an issue of trust there, similar to why we see so little of SAA and Dibling in the games that actually matter.

On paper he is the most natural replacement or best player to compliment Flynn in a  'closing up' period of a game, but we've never used him in that way. 

Rather bizarrely, if you go back to the start of the season and during pre-season, we were fixated on using him as a CB rather than CM. I'd be interested to see the stats, but I reckon he's played just as many games for us at CB which is a little odd.

[trousers]

18 minutes ago, coalman said:

As well as lacking defensive options in midfield and leaving us open to conceding goals it's also getting in the way of developing upcoming talents like Dibling and Amo-Ameyaw. We didn't have a single player on the bench from the youth teams yesterday - which we were doing so well during our unbeaten run. Neither of them have let us down when they've come on and they really deserve a pathway into the first team.

Yep.... I was only thinking the other day that it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out this season that we've had fewer academy/U21s players on the pitch than we had on average per season during our last premier league tenure. You'd have thought given we're in a lower league that such opportunities would increase rather than decrease. A lack of faith in our younger players from Russ? Or squad too bloated? Or just a lower quality of younger players available compared to previous seasons? 

Edited April 14 by trousers

[coalman]

28 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yep.... I was only thinking the other day that it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out this season that we've had fewer academy/U21s players on the pitch than we had on average per season during our last premier league tenure. You'd have thought given we're in a lower league that such opportunities would increase rather than decrease. A lack of faith in our younger players from Russ? Or squad too bloated? Or just a lower quality of younger players available compared to previous seasons? 

I would say a combination of squad too bloated with loans. Some poor recruitment and a lack of faith. So a bit of everything really.

The problem is we've made much of our model to attract the academy stars from big clubs who haven't got a pathway into their first teams. And, our business model is based on buying, developing and selling these players for a profit. Not every player is going to be Lavia or Livramento but if they look at Saints and think "I'm not going there because they manager doesn't trust the likes of Charles, Dibling, Amo-Ameyaw and Meghoma" then they're just going to take the most lucrative offer on the table. 

Not every young player will work out. But, right now I'd be looking at that team and bench and thinking the manager doesn't trust younger players.

When we look back at this season I think we'll have missed a real opportunity to nurture some really talented players. Irrespective of whether we are promoted our not. And, if we're not promoted we probably aren't going to have a choice but to throw those younger players onto the pitch, given the scale of the exodus we'll be facing. And, as you say, if not this season then when?

[Badger]

58 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

What has this lad done to Martin? 
 

Why is Martin willing to risk putting a CB into midfield instead of playing him, despite a number of good performances?

Huge mistake yesterday that nearly cost us imo.
 

Charles is young and learning but he wouldn’t have let their attacker waltz through the middle like Stephens did yesterday. Thoroughly barmy management. I defended Martin and like him a lot, but he undervalues the defensive midfield position so much. You can’t just chuck random players in there  

 

Is this one of the fabled Saintsweb traditions of a players ability and worth improving by the week when unavailable or not selected?

From the times I’ve seen him, he’s looked distinctly average at best. Always seemed caught in the paradox of needing minutes on the pitch to develop, but having not really done enough to justify selection.

[Osvaldorama]

3 hours ago, Badger said:

Is this one of the fabled Saintsweb traditions of a players ability and worth improving by the week when unavailable or not selected?

From the times I’ve seen him, he’s looked distinctly average at best. Always seemed caught in the paradox of needing minutes on the pitch to develop, but having not really done enough to justify selection.

He was good against Liverpool. He was good against WBA. 

More importantly he adds height and physical presence which is what we sorely lack.  
 

He might not be the finished article, if if he was he is exactly what we are missing. 
 

I would rather see him come on and sit next to Downes when we are trying to protect a lead than almost any of the subs Martin usually makes 

[Wade Garrett]

4 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

What has this lad done to Martin? 
 

Why is Martin willing to risk putting a CB into midfield instead of playing him, despite a number of good performances?

Huge mistake yesterday that nearly cost us imo.
 

Charles is young and learning but he wouldn’t have let their attacker waltz through the middle like Stephens did yesterday. Thoroughly barmy management. I defended Martin and like him a lot, but he undervalues the defensive midfield position so much. You can’t just chuck random players in there  

 

I called exactly what would happen before kick-off on the match thread.  

The idea of Martin preferring Stephens to Charles in midfield shows what a  poor manager he is.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I think RM really rates Stephens' versatility and leadership. He clearly wants that somewhere on the park, as much as possible, and has done even before Jack's injury. Jack's also the CB who gets to move forward into the middle, and has had an even more free role as an inverted full back in at least one game.

Martin possibly thinks all of that, plus adaptability to in game things is required more than what Charles brings in, with inexperience, in a more specialist role.

RM relies on the experienced players, when things aren't going well. He was losing ground on the Autos, trying different things with more experienced players, but still young, than Charles in other areas. He dropped Charles after what was considered a poor performance. The youngster has found it tough to get back in, probably partly through a little trust, but also because he prefers the all rounders in midfield (even if they are weaker in some parts than Charles would be).

I also think Martin is looking to unlock his tactic to create more, rather than shut things down by packing the midfield, or bringing on a defensive minded player.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

5 hours ago, Badger said:

Is this one of the fabled Saintsweb traditions of a players ability and worth improving by the week when unavailable or not selected?

From the times I’ve seen him, he’s looked distinctly average at best. Always seemed caught in the paradox of needing minutes on the pitch to develop, but having not really done enough to justify selection.

Yes, his performances have been pretty average. Seems to jog around in one gear all the time. Can't remember if he has much positional sense but surely as a defensive midfielder and helping to close out a game, he should at least be on the bench...for a start, he could replace one of those 3 wingers (but not Edozie!).

Problem now is the next couple of games are so key, RM will perceive playing Charles as a risk.

[Dusic]

Charles was poor in the Bristol City game which was the first one Downes missed I think - so essentially fluffed his opportunity and was subbed after less than an hour in the WBA game.

I think RM lost a bit of faith after this and unfortunately his weakness seems to be that he isnt as reliable in possession as Downes or Smallbone and therefore think he doesnt want to risk him in that position and ahead of that he isnt getting game time ahead of Armstrong, Aribo, Smallbone and Rothwell has made an impact as a sub when needed.

Seems a good player but jury out on whether he will make it long term IMO - although worth considering this is his first pro season of any kind.

Certainly don't think its some kind of ludicrously poor management that he hasnt featured a lot.

[david in sweden]

6 hours ago, trousers said:

Yep.... I was only thinking the other day that it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out this season that we've had fewer academy/U21s players on the pitch than we had on average per season during our last premier league tenure. You'd have thought given we're in a lower league that such opportunities would increase rather than decrease. A lack of faith in our younger players from Russ? Or squad too bloated? Or just a lower quality of younger players available compared to previous seasons? 

Playing youngsters ( often in home games ) is a way to allow kids to get some minutes, but it's dangerous to put them in and expect they perform as well as the 

regular / more experienced regulars.   To be fair, RM had never seen any U21 's ( in some cases like Dibling were still U18's ) and so doesn't know them as we do.

 

After we went on the unbeaten run it was obvious to continue picking the same starters (allowing for injuries / suspensions  / and form loss ).

Those who do come in occasionally  show up well .  Edozie started first 7 games and scored twice, then had a run of sub apps. then started again and

scored 3 times in December before getting injured.    Mara had a run of sub. games in Dec / Jan and scored three , then twice more in February.

Since when both have had numerous sub .apps. without impressing.     Sulemana  has had his share of game time but is yet to score.  

 

YES  we have a lower quality in the Academy this season , and few have shown up well and many of those still qualify as U18's

(eg. Sam AA and Dibling) . Ballard started well in U21's.  (6 goals in 2 games) , was then loaned to Reading but got a serious injury. 

Doyle went to Brighton and RB Lewis Payne is doing well  on loan at Newport (in L2).    Various other talents are out on loan and

therefore both Youth sides have  suffered in consequence. 

Strikers especially suffer from " the ketchup effect ".   Despite getting 20 goals  Adam A.  has had "dry spells" .  Having scored in

4 consecutive  matches  in March, he  has now gone 3 games blank.    Ché Adams was even worse - scoring  just once in 7 games

in February, and missed some real sitters in that time, but has now scored 3... ( or 4 if you count KWP's deflected effort v. Coventry )..

in his last 4 outings. 

 Everyone has their favourite players (and verbally abuse others on line)  but regardless of the outcome not everyone plays well in every game. 

 

Edited April 14 by david in sweden

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

Charles was poor in the Bristol City game which was the first one Downes missed I think - so essentially fluffed his opportunity and was subbed after less than an hour in the WBA game.

I think RM lost a bit of faith after this and unfortunately his weakness seems to be that he isnt as reliable in possession as Downes or Smallbone and therefore think he doesnt want to risk him in that position and ahead of that he isnt getting game time ahead of Armstrong, Aribo, Smallbone and Rothwell has made an impact as a sub when needed.

Seems a good player but jury out on whether he will make it long term IMO - although worth considering this is his first pro season of any kind.

Certainly don't think its some kind of ludicrously poor management that he hasnt featured a lot.

If that’s true, it’s a shame he doesn’t hold Bazunu to the same standard.

[Baird of the land]

Find Martin’s whole i don’t want to put a cm on the bench because it limits his attacking options logic extremely weird. With 9 spots on the bench it seems that there is room to accommodate that and still have a variety of attacking options.

[Osvaldorama]

17 hours ago, Dusic said:

Charles was poor in the Bristol City game which was the first one Downes missed I think - so essentially fluffed his opportunity and was subbed after less than an hour in the WBA game.

I think RM lost a bit of faith after this and unfortunately his weakness seems to be that he isnt as reliable in possession as Downes or Smallbone and therefore think he doesnt want to risk him in that position and ahead of that he isnt getting game time ahead of Armstrong, Aribo, Smallbone and Rothwell has made an impact as a sub when needed.

Seems a good player but jury out on whether he will make it long term IMO - although worth considering this is his first pro season of any kind.

Certainly don't think its some kind of ludicrously poor management that he hasnt featured a lot.

It’s not ludicrously poor management in isolation. 
 

The ludicrously poor bit is throwing a centre back into DM in the middle of a vital game. That was ludicrous. 
 

We have had all of pre-season and 40 odd games including cup games and games we were well ahead to try playing Stephens as a holding midfielder. 
 

Martins biggest weakness is not setting up a midfield correctly. He is lucky Downes is so good imo as it covers his mistakes. 

[Give it to Ron]

On 14/04/2024 at 20:56, Baird of the land said:

Find Martin’s whole i don’t want to put a cm on the bench because it limits his attacking options logic extremely weird. With 9 spots on the bench it seems that there is room to accommodate that and still have a variety of attacking options.

Especially when you have to bring Mara on to win headers from opposing corners allegedly!!

How can anyone still get brought on again Saturday after that Coventry non performance. Charles has never been that bad yet dropped completely from squad.

[Convict Colony]

Yeah should always have charles on the bench, he's never going to improve if he doesn't get to play.

He's the only other destroyer we have in midfield.

 

[Osvaldorama]

5 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

Especially when you have to bring Mara on to win headers from opposing corners allegedly!!

How can anyone still get brought on again Saturday after that Coventry non performance. Charles has never been that bad yet dropped completely from squad.

Exactly, Charles has shown a lot more in his cameo roles than Mara has, in an area of the team that we have zero competition for. It just doesn’t make much sense really. 
 

We leak goals late on in games yet our manager doesn’t rate our only other defensive midfielder. Bit of a dilemma.. and shoehorning Stephens there isn’t the solution 

[Saint86]

On 14/04/2024 at 12:14, Osvaldorama said:

What has this lad done to Martin? 
 

Why is Martin willing to risk putting a CB into midfield instead of playing him, despite a number of good performances?

Huge mistake yesterday that nearly cost us imo.
 

Charles is young and learning but he wouldn’t have let their attacker waltz through the middle like Stephens did yesterday. Thoroughly barmy management. I defended Martin and like him a lot, but he undervalues the defensive midfield position so much. You can’t just chuck random players in there  

 

Laughable to blame Stephens for that...

The goal was caused by a long ball (which went clear over the top of Stephens and which he would never have got), then Downes (who badly missed a header an took himself out of the move and left a yawning gap), and then THB who just ran away from Kone and at no point was ever in any danger of stepping out to narrow the angle, challenge, or limit shooting chances - ultimately a free shot on goal.

So unless you wanted Stephens to foul him, possibly conceding a penalty, i don't know why you're laying the blame at his feet.

Reads like bias / scapegoating to blame stephens i'm afraid.

 

Conversely, saints scored 2 goals with Stephens in midfield... (albeit the incorrect offside call chalked one of them off). Similarly, before this game, Stephens had 2 assist in 2 games.

Edited April 16 by Saint86

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Laughable to blame Stephens for that...

The goal was caused by a long ball (which went clear over the top of Stephens and which he would never have got), then Downes (who badly missed a header an took himself out of the move and left a yawning gap), and then THB who just ran away from Kone and at no point was ever in any danger of stepping out to narrow the angle, challenge, or limit shooting chances - ultimately a free shot on goal.

So unless you wanted Stephens to foul him, possibly conceding a penalty, i don't know why you're laying the blame at his feet.

Reads like bias / scapegoating to blame stephens i'm afraid.

 

Conversely, saints scored 2 goals with Stephens in midfield... (albeit the incorrect offside call chalked one of them off). Similarly, before this game, Stephens had 2 assist in 2 games.

It was perfectly correct. Fraser was comfortably offside.