Matthew Le God Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 19/01/2025 at 13:27, spyinthesky said: Valery, Rothwell and Shea Charles all with Saints connections. Big difference in the standard of football with Premiership but competitive and the question is will a Saints team devoid of a few better players be in the frame for another return to the Prem. Expand In what position(s) are we 'devoid' of players who are at the level of top Championship players? 1
Weston Super Saint Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 19/01/2025 at 13:36, Matthew Le God said: In what position(s) are we 'devoid' of players who are at the level of top Championship players? Expand When Ramsdale goes, goalkeeper. 4
Holmes_and_Watson Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 19/01/2025 at 13:27, spyinthesky said: Valery, Rothwell and Shea Charles all with Saints connections. Big difference in the standard of football with Premiership but competitive and the question is will a Saints team devoid of a few better players be in the frame for another return to the Prem. Expand On 19/01/2025 at 13:36, Matthew Le God said: In what position(s) are we 'devoid' of players who are at the level of top Championship players? Expand Since spyinthesky said "will" it could be read that this will depend on who we manage to keep in the summer. On 19/01/2025 at 15:10, Weston Super Saint said: When Ramsdale goes, goalkeeper. Expand Here's an example of that very thinking, right here. 🙂 1
spyinthesky Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 19/01/2025 at 21:28, disconnect said: So Charles wasn’t recalled after all?! Expand By accounts he will be with us next week. 1
Matthew Le God Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 19/01/2025 at 21:28, disconnect said: So Charles wasn’t recalled after all?! Expand He was, but there is a one week gap between the recall request and the actual return written into the loan deal. 2
Matthew Le God Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 19/01/2025 at 17:31, Holmes_and_Watson said: Since spyinthesky said "will" it could be read that this will depend on who we manage to keep in the summer. Here's an example of that very thinking, right here. 🙂 Expand Yet again, you are confusing someone asking a question with some making a claim. You appear to not understand the difference!
Weston Super Saint Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 19/01/2025 at 21:54, Matthew Le God said: Yet again, you are confusing someone asking a question with some making a claim. You appear to not understand the difference! Expand Are you suggesting spy in the sky wasn't asking a question? If so, I'd point out his sentence contained the phrase 'the question is' which suggests he was...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted January 19 Posted January 19 On 19/01/2025 at 21:54, Matthew Le God said: Yet again, you are confusing someone asking a question with some making a claim. You appear to not understand the difference! Expand On 19/01/2025 at 21:57, Weston Super Saint said: Are you suggesting spy in the sky wasn't asking a question? If so, I'd point out his sentence contained the phrase 'the question is' which suggests he was... Expand As per Weston's post. You should bookmark it, for the next time you have an utter failure. Something that is only ever moments away. 🙂 Very disappointing to see your return so quickly go back to all your bad old habits. 1
Matthew Le God Posted January 20 Posted January 20 On 19/01/2025 at 21:57, Weston Super Saint said: Are you suggesting spy in the sky wasn't asking a question? If so, I'd point out his sentence contained the phrase 'the question is' which suggests he was... Expand On 19/01/2025 at 22:04, Holmes_and_Watson said: As per Weston's post. You should bookmark it, for the next time you have an utter failure. Something that is only ever moments away. 🙂 Very disappointing to see your return so quickly go back to all your bad old habits. Expand No, I'm saying I was asking a question. A question is not a claim.
spyinthesky Posted January 20 Posted January 20 (edited) On 20/01/2025 at 06:20, Matthew Le God said: No, I'm saying I was asking a question. A question is not a claim. Expand Hopefully I can help clarify.my comment. I was making the point that without our better players such as Fernandes, Dibling, KWP,THB, Ramsdale, would the team be competitive in the Championship? So I was asking a question. Of course, it would be hoped that there will be a few players coming in to replace those leaving and that the likes of AA, Downes, Sugawara, Archer, Wood etc would feel more comfortable in the Championship. Perhaps the cup game v Burnley will provide a decent yardstick, if indeed, Burnley play a full strength side. Edited January 20 by spyinthesky
Holmes_and_Watson Posted January 20 Posted January 20 On 20/01/2025 at 10:02, spyinthesky said: Hopefully I can help clarify.my comment. I was making the point that without our better players such as Fernandes, Dibling, KWP,THB, Ramsdale, would the team be competitive in the Championship? So I was asking a question. Of course, it would be hoped that there will be a few players coming in to replace those leaving and that the likes of AA, Downes, Sugawara, Archer, Wood etc would feel more comfortable in the Championship. Perhaps the cup game v Burnley will provide a decent yardstick, if indeed, Burnley play a full strength side. Expand Thanks for confirming. The penny should now have dropped for even the most bloody minded of humanity. 🙂 With the change of manager, and the players adusting to his tactics, it's a little more undecided again how well the unit would cope. For example, Will was an excellent fit for a lot of RM's tactics at that level. But as he's not a full DM or AM, may not fit with the new boss' requirements. Under RM we desperately needed an Adams replacement, and someone with the all round game of Romeu. Juric may get a lot more out of TP and Sule (if they are in the Championship) and need a diffetent sort of player. AA got lots of goals,but without a capable attacking plan, may not replicate that again. Not to mention the frustration of another unsuccessful PL stint. Individual talent does cover lots of cracks. Ramsdale, KWP and Fernandes there. Surprised not to add Downes into that this season, and there seems to be a dip there (not 100% at present?) of late. McCarthy (Baz) Stephens, Bedders(Edwards), Wood (Taylor) Bree(Suga), Charles (Bragg), Downes (Aribo), Manning (Welington) AA(SAA), Fraser (Edozie) Archer (TP) Looks okay, but needs help and fresh faces to really push. And towards an overhaul to stay up, if we go back up.
Saint Fan CaM Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 20/01/2025 at 16:25, Holmes_and_Watson said: Thanks for confirming. The penny should now have dropped for even the most bloody minded of humanity. 🙂 With the change of manager, and the players adusting to his tactics, it's a little more undecided again how well the unit would cope. For example, Will was an excellent fit for a lot of RM's tactics at that level. But as he's not a full DM or AM, may not fit with the new boss' requirements. Under RM we desperately needed an Adams replacement, and someone with the all round game of Romeu. Juric may get a lot more out of TP and Sule (if they are in the Championship) and need a diffetent sort of player. AA got lots of goals,but without a capable attacking plan, may not replicate that again. Not to mention the frustration of another unsuccessful PL stint. Individual talent does cover lots of cracks. Ramsdale, KWP and Fernandes there. Surprised not to add Downes into that this season, and there seems to be a dip there (not 100% at present?) of late. McCarthy (Baz) Stephens, Bedders(Edwards), Wood (Taylor) Bree(Suga), Charles (Bragg), Downes (Aribo), Manning (Welington) AA(SAA), Fraser (Edozie) Archer (TP) Looks okay, but needs help and fresh faces to really push. And towards an overhaul to stay up, if we go back up. Expand Don’t think those players have enough about them to get us into the play-offs let alone auto’s. Then there’s the scar tissue… 1
Holmes_and_Watson Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 21/01/2025 at 00:36, Saint Fan CaM said: Don’t think those players have enough about them to get us into the play-offs let alone auto’s. Then there’s the scar tissue… Expand It fills in a fair bit of a squad, without the drive, creativity and focal point to get it over the line. So yeah, not as good as the side finishing 4th, even if we would be a bit more forward in games. It would need a freshening up. 1
Football Special Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 21/01/2025 at 00:43, Holmes_and_Watson said: It fills in a fair bit of a squad, without the drive, creativity and focal point to get it over the line. So yeah, not as good as the side finishing 4th, even if we would be a bit more forward in games. It would need a freshening up. Expand Can have 5 or 6 loans in the championship, change up half the team, get new faces in who aren't carrying the baggage as worst premier league team of all time
Dusic Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Don't really see any logic in loaning Shea Charles out to Sheff Utd, unless our idea is to try to sell him in the summer on the basis that he does well and they want to keep him in the PL. If he goes back out then to SW on better loan terms surely makes more sense?
Harry_SFC Posted January 22 Posted January 22 (edited) On 22/01/2025 at 18:59, Dusic said: Don't really see any logic in loaning Shea Charles out to Sheff Utd, unless our idea is to try to sell him in the summer on the basis that he does well and they want to keep him in the PL. If he goes back out then to SW on better loan terms surely makes more sense? Expand Well we'd be bonkers to sell him but nothing would surprise me with SR. I imagine he'll go back to Sheff Weds on deadline day once we know Ugochukwu isn't being recalled. Edited January 22 by Harry_SFC
Tommy Mulgrew Posted January 22 Posted January 22 He is still in Sheffield, playing for Wednesday tonight. I’d have thought we’d have him back in Southampton by now but apparently not. Let’s hope he gets here soon so that Ivan can run the ruler over him in the next week or so and advise SR what to do about him.
Matthew Le God Posted January 22 Posted January 22 On 22/01/2025 at 20:44, Tommy Mulgrew said: He is still in Sheffield, playing for Wednesday tonight. I’d have thought we’d have him back in Southampton by now but apparently not. Expand The loan deal has a week delay clause after a recall. 2
Master Bates Posted January 22 Posted January 22 He's staying anyways. Someone hurry up and find a link about it.
Master Bates Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Shea Charles off at half time, I have a link etc on this one!
Chez Posted January 22 Posted January 22 On 19/01/2025 at 13:36, Matthew Le God said: In what position(s) are we 'devoid' of players who are at the level of top Championship players? Expand How are you defining top championship players? If Ramsdale goes, none of the three keepers could be described as the best keeper in the league or indeed one of the best keepers in the league. Right back without KWP. Is Bree or Sugawara going to get in the championship team of the year or more importantly deserve to be in it? I'm not convinced they are top championship players. Bree is solid, but top? Sugawara has a lot to prove. Is Taylor departing? If so, does Manning, Wellington and Larios float many boats? By and large, Manning was slated on here last season. I think he has his positives and negatives. Not sure he's a top championship player. Is he top three? Is he top three at Saints? If Dibling departs, I am not sure we have any right wingers, so another position we are not strong. I think in reality its THB, Bednarek, Downes, Fernandes (he could well depart) and if his confidence returns a second time, Armstrong, but that's a major question mark. It;s not a given he will be one of the best strikers in the league next year. 1
Saint86 Posted January 23 Posted January 23 Reading the Wednesday forum it sounds like we've been up to some right antics with them - similar perhaps to the way we carried on with Swansea that saw Martin being sued. I wonder if this was possibly related to Kraft's departure. https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/336439-charles-southampton/page/7/#comments
Matthew Le God Posted January 23 Posted January 23 (edited) On 23/01/2025 at 00:11, Saint86 said: Reading the Wednesday forum it sounds like we've been up to some right antics with them - similar perhaps to the way we carried on with Swansea that saw Martin being sued. I wonder if this was possibly related to Kraft's departure. https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/336439-charles-southampton/page/7/#comments Expand That sounds like nonsense. Particularly the bit saying Man City get 75% of any Charles fee. That would likely mean we would sell him at a loss on the £10m rising to £15m we paid for him unless he went fot a ridiculously large fee. Typically sell on clauses are 10% to 20%, not 75%. It is such a ridiculous claim it is hard to take the rest of the claims seriously in that post. Edited January 23 by Matthew Le God
Fabrice29 Posted January 23 Posted January 23 75% of any profit I suspect is more likely to be what they mean. 2
Gloucester Saint Posted January 23 Posted January 23 On 22/01/2025 at 22:47, Chez said: How are you defining top championship players? If Ramsdale goes, none of the three keepers could be described as the best keeper in the league or indeed one of the best keepers in the league. Right back without KWP. Is Bree or Sugawara going to get in the championship team of the year or more importantly deserve to be in it? I'm not convinced they are top championship players. Bree is solid, but top? Sugawara has a lot to prove. Is Taylor departing? If so, does Manning, Wellington and Larios float many boats? By and large, Manning was slated on here last season. I think he has his positives and negatives. Not sure he's a top championship player. Is he top three? Is he top three at Saints? If Dibling departs, I am not sure we have any right wingers, so another position we are not strong. I think in reality its THB, Bednarek, Downes, Fernandes (he could well depart) and if his confidence returns a second time, Armstrong, but that's a major question mark. It;s not a given he will be one of the best strikers in the league next year. Expand Quite, and Bazanu was by some distance the worst keeper in the Championship. If he is back in goal, we’d be doing well to stay up let alone go up.
Barsiem Posted January 23 Posted January 23 On 23/01/2025 at 00:11, Saint86 said: Reading the Wednesday forum it sounds like we've been up to some right antics with them - similar perhaps to the way we carried on with Swansea that saw Martin being sued. I wonder if this was possibly related to Kraft's departure. https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/336439-charles-southampton/page/7/#comments Expand Sounds like SW versions of Jack Schitt (or whatever his name was)
Whitey Grandad Posted January 23 Posted January 23 On 23/01/2025 at 06:33, Gloucester Saint said: Quite, and Bazanu was by some distance the worst keeper in the Championship. If he is back in goal, we’d be doing well to stay up let alone go up. Expand No he wasn’t. Don’t be in such a rush to rewrite history. We finished in the playoffs and he was in the team that achieved that. Most players seem to get better when they don’t play. Has he got any worse? 1
UpweySaint Posted January 23 Posted January 23 On 23/01/2025 at 06:33, Gloucester Saint said: Quite, and Bazanu was by some distance the worst keeper in the Championship. If he is back in goal, we’d be doing well to stay up let alone go up. Expand Well this is hyperbole of the highest order. On what basis was he the worst by some distance? He had his flaws for sure but come on. We wanted a ball playing goal keeper which clearly he can do. His decision making and shot stopping need work but he is very young in goalkeeper terms. There is no question we are a better side with Ramsdale but if we end with Bazunu as our No1 in the championship we’re not exactly in the shit.
goodymatt Posted January 23 Posted January 23 On 23/01/2025 at 06:41, Whitey Grandad said: No he wasn’t. Don’t be in such a rush to rewrite history. We finished in the playoffs and he was in the team that achieved that. Most players seem to get better when they don’t play. Has he got any worse? Expand On 23/01/2025 at 06:52, UpweySaint said: Well this is hyperbole of the highest order. On what basis was he the worst by some distance? He had his flaws for sure but come on. We wanted a ball playing goal keeper which clearly he can do. His decision making and shot stopping need work but he is very young in goalkeeper terms. There is no question we are a better side with Ramsdale but if we end with Bazunu as our No1 in the championship we’re not exactly in the shit. Expand I think Bazunu had the worst performance of actual saves vs expected saves in our last premier league season and last season in the championship. Essentially underperforming more than any other starting keeper in the league at his main job, two seasons in a row. We somehow managed to concede 61 goals and get promoted, not too common an occurrence and he was injured for the key playoff games. Bazunu has potential for sure but he’s a weak link based on what we have seen to date on his current ability. His best strength, playing out from the back, is no longer key to the way we play either. 1
SNSUN Posted January 23 Posted January 23 On 23/01/2025 at 08:20, Harry_SFC said: Expand We need to prepare for that eventuality. We are woefully light in CM especially DM. I know we've brought Gronbaek in but I'd also like to see more up front, especially with Dibling out for a while. Oh, and another CB but maybe I'm just being greedy. One week left.
Saint86 Posted January 23 Posted January 23 On 23/01/2025 at 06:40, Barsiem said: Sounds like SW versions of Jack Schitt (or whatever his name was) Expand Yeah, don't get me wrong - should have prefaced the above with a "take with a healthy dose of caution". I suspect something has gone on, but equally i also strongly suspect their owner is an utter nutcase who lies to the fanbase to try and manipulate the narrative and get the fans onside.
CB Fry Posted January 24 Posted January 24 On 23/01/2025 at 11:39, SNSUN said: We need to prepare for that eventuality. We are woefully light in CM especially DM. I know we've brought Gronbaek in but I'd also like to see more up front, especially with Dibling out for a while. Oh, and another CB but maybe I'm just being greedy. One week left. Expand I'm not anticipating much activity at all, especially as it will be pretty pointless. I would be absolutely amazed if we signed yet another Centre Back so don't get your hopes up. 1
spyinthesky Posted January 24 Posted January 24 It would be interesting to know the reason behind this. Perhaps?... 1. Sheff Weds agreed to throw a decent additional wedge into SR's coffers to allow Charles to stay at Hillsborough. 2. Chelsea were making noises about taking Big Les back due to Lavia's injury and Saints wanted Shea Charles back to fill the position of defensive midfielder. 3. Shea is happy in Sheffield and wanted to stay for the rest of the season. 4. Or, he was expecting to return as a 'bit part' here and preferred to play every week in the Championship. Food for thought.
ChrisPY Posted January 24 Posted January 24 On 22/01/2025 at 21:17, Master Bates said: Shea Charles off at half time, I have a link etc on this one! Expand Their keeper can’t be much good saving shots on his right hand side. 2
Weston Super Saint Posted January 24 Posted January 24 On 24/01/2025 at 17:13, spyinthesky said: It would be interesting to know the reason behind this. Perhaps?... 1. Sheff Weds agreed to throw a decent additional wedge into SR's coffers to allow Charles to stay at Hillsborough. 2. Chelsea were making noises about taking Big Les back due to Lavia's injury and Saints wanted Shea Charles back to fill the position of defensive midfielder. 3. Shea is happy in Sheffield and wanted to stay for the rest of the season. 4. Or, he was expecting to return as a 'bit part' here and preferred to play every week in the Championship. Food for thought. Expand No reason why it can't be all of the above. 3
Chez Posted January 24 Posted January 24 On 24/01/2025 at 17:13, spyinthesky said: It would be interesting to know the reason behind this. Perhaps?... 1. Sheff Weds agreed to throw a decent additional wedge into SR's coffers to allow Charles to stay at Hillsborough. 2. Chelsea were making noises about taking Big Les back due to Lavia's injury and Saints wanted Shea Charles back to fill the position of defensive midfielder. 3. Shea is happy in Sheffield and wanted to stay for the rest of the season. 4. Or, he was expecting to return as a 'bit part' here and preferred to play every week in the Championship. Food for thought. Expand Perhaps also another Champsionhip side made a better loan offer, and thus Wednesday had to match that offer. 2
Baird of the land Posted January 25 Posted January 25 See he got an assist in their win. hope we haven’t damaged relations with him from our petty antics and we’ll get to see him play for us next season.
Gloucester Saint Posted January 25 Posted January 25 On 24/01/2025 at 17:49, Chez said: Perhaps also another Champsionhip side made a better loan offer, and thus Wednesday had to match that offer. Expand Especially one with a Sheffield postcode 1
Fabrice29 Posted January 25 Posted January 25 On 25/01/2025 at 17:22, Baird of the land said: See he got an assist in their win. hope we haven’t damaged relations with him from our petty antics and we’ll get to see him play for us next season. Expand His interview yesterday with Sheffield Wednesday seemed to suggest he was pretty shocked to be recalled, not overly pleased to be coming back and glad he's managed to stay up there. 1
Wiggles31 Posted January 25 Posted January 25 Let him progress rather than call him back to this absolute shit show of a season. 2
Tommy Mulgrew Posted February 19 Posted February 19 That augurs well for next season if we do not sell him. He seems to think and move more quickly than other players on the field, not what I could say about many of our team this season - I know we are in a different league but we won’t be next season. He seems to have bulked up a bit and does not get outmuscled as much as he did when playing for us last year. I’d certainly prefer Charles to Smallbone in our midfield in the foreseeable future. 3
Gloucester Saint Posted February 19 Posted February 19 On 19/02/2025 at 14:10, Tommy Mulgrew said: That augurs well for next season if we do not sell him. He seems to think and move more quickly than other players on the field, not what I could say about many of our team this season - I know we are in a different league but we won’t be next season. He seems to have bulked up a bit and does not get outmuscled as much as he did when playing for us last year. I’d certainly prefer Charles to Smallbone in our midfield in the foreseeable future. Expand Looks a much better physique than 18 months ago, better training and coaching under Rohl and has done the work on his core which Smallbone needs to apply himself on to be the best version of himself and what he can be. 1
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