Saints 3-2 Watford - Match Thread

[bangkoksaint]

It won’t be the Sunderland esq defeats that undo us this season , it’ll be the needless points thrown away where out of nowhere teams have taken us for a point. Huddersfield, Blackburn and Middlesbrough to name but three

Edited April 14 by bangkoksaint

[SaintsFan86]

7 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

It won’t be the Sunderland esq defeats that undo us this season , it’ll be the needless points thrown away where out of nowhere teams have taken us for a point. Huddersfield, Blackburn and Middlesbrough to name but three

I'd add Rotherham home and Norwich away too.

[waylander]

7 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

It won’t be the Sunderland esq defeats that undo us this season , it’ll be the needless points thrown away where out of nowhere teams have taken us for a point. Huddersfield, Blackburn and Middlesbrough to name but three

Rotherham! The most one-sided draw I've seen for years

[Chewy]

The morning after and the euphoria has ebbed some what so can try and be calmer about the whole experience. My main feeling is that the ten minutes before their first goal is why we won’t get promoted and why, if we did, we’d be murdered every week in the premier league.

Having been gifted two soft goals by dreadful defending the game was done - we just needed to be solid and counter. But we persisted with 3 forwards playing fully on their back line, and didn’t ask the wide players to drop. We split Aribo and Smallbone wide, leaving one midfielder. Watford were high pressing with numbers and overran us in midfield.

The gamble was if we broke through the press we’d be on them and on one occasion we were and nearly scored. Of course, the flip side of that gamble is we get overrun leaving every loose ball to be picked up by Watford which is of course where they scored from.

This is why and where Russell is a total moron. This isn’t bravery, it’s idiocy. We were 2 up - why do we need to gamble? Block the midfield and we kill the game - they created nothing, they scored two goals from loose balls in our empty midfield. 
I don’t have an issue with having a philosophy or what it is. I’m not one of the plonkers that boo when we pass it along the back - I get it and it’s good football with a purpose. I also credit Russell with the coaching, with getting players motivated for him and the improvement in our mentality. I also accept Watford were a decent side (apart from their defence which gifted 3 goals).

What I don’t get is the stupidity (and in my opinion arrogance) of not adapting to situations to manage a game. 2 up and for 10 minutes before they scored it was obvious what was happening, who was clearly going to score next, and how we needed to respond to kill it off. He and we did nothing. It wasn’t about the amount of running we did, it was the moronic tactic of having one central midfielder on his own being swamped.  The one adaptation he makes is the length of passing, but he never changes shape to bring solidity. 
Giving away comfortable leads has happened too many times and Russell needs to learn to adapt. If Luis Enrique, Arteta, Tuchel and Xavi aren’t too proud to fiddle with tactics in game I’m not sure why Russell thinks it’s beneath him. Arrogant and stupid, not brave.

Rant over

 

Anyway, decent opposition, not many outstanding performers for us but good displays from most. Adam or Che probably my MOTM. Brooks was ineffective again and needs dropping, Stu was awful (and I’m a fan). Ryan surprisingly good. Jan did well when introduced. Baz still looked flappy but not at fault for the goals. 
Overall with the standard of opposition and the pressure of where the season is at (evidenced by the other 3) I’ll happily take a win, and the feeling of a last gasp winner is immense - brilliant emotions walking out. But yet again it should have been a comfortable win once we were gifted a 2 goal cushion, and yet again we were tactically outdone because the opposition know how we play and that we’re too thick to change it.

It’s euphoria mixed with enormous frustration. Which is pretty much life as a football fan in a sentence.

 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

11 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Half time came at a good moment I thought, but the second half started just as bad. Very disjointed, very loose out of possession and when in possession - their goal felt inventible at some point in that 2nd half, but weirdly it came during the time when it felt like the game was petering out. Absolutely hopeless play by Stephens in midfield, as he has absolutely no idea about positional play and where to be.

 

11 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

unless we sort that we will have a real uphill task in the playoffs.

Great analysis as usual S-Clarke but aren't you also looking at the table and thinking maybe, just maybe the automatic spot is still possible.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

 

Great analysis as usual S-Clarke but aren't you also looking at the table and thinking maybe, just maybe the automatic spot is still possible.

it really isn't....we let in too many goals and there appears to be little change in that

[gio1saints]

11 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Am sure shared elsewhere, but worth watching again anyway (not my footage, just saw it on Twitter)… 

https://x.com/yjw_x/status/1779191985598832851?s=46&t=6zx5qf2H7nuEX1l3EabHng

Poster must be right next to me 😂

 

[badgerx16]

11 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

. Missed opportunities and calamitous screw ups have been our failing.

The issues with RM's coaching is that we are still making the same screw ups we were making in September, we don't seem to have learnt a thing, and still pissing about at the back - we got away with at least 3 very close shaves with passing between Baz and the defenders as Watford pressed high.

 

[egg]

56 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

It won’t be the Sunderland esq defeats that undo us this season , it’ll be the needless points thrown away where out of nowhere teams have taken us for a point. Huddersfield, Blackburn and Middlesbrough to name but three

 

49 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

I'd add Rotherham home and Norwich away too.

Yep. We've shot ourselves in the foot. We should be clear at the top, with games in hand. 

[Saint_clark]

14 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Poster must be right next to me 😂

 

I think you'd have clocked it if she was sat next to you. 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, bangkoksaint said:

It won’t be the Sunderland esq defeats that undo us this season , it’ll be the needless points thrown away where out of nowhere teams have taken us for a point. Huddersfield, Blackburn and Middlesbrough to name but three

Watford away, piss poor finishing, and a Bazunu special at the end. 

[gio1saints]

12 hours ago, Chez said:

Agree fully that we are 2-0 due to Russball. I'm a big fan of our possession game, but there were a few occasions when we played ourselves into trouble because we did not recognise that they were pressing harder with more men further forward. There was also two or three occasions in the second half when it simply had to go long. RM has indoctrinated the play out at all costs, but players (keeper and defenders) need to see that the space is not there. RM and coaching staff need to spot when opponents are pushed high and get players to play that 30 yard ball to the wing instead.

 

Nice assessment. 

I think that the possession based football system we play is a 100% strategic call - not a tactical decision. 

Saints have had tactical managers ( what you might call pragmatists) who will make us play in whatever style is required to win or not lose the game - Mourinho is the prototype but for Saints Puel, Souness, Strachan and Koeman were cast from that mould to a degree - and then there have been our strategic managers who have had a purist philosophy about how they will play - early Ralph, early Poch and now early Russ. 

So far, Russ has shown he is the most dogmatic manager we’ve ever had. He is the most stubborn SOB manager I’ve ever seen persisting with his PB football. It’s crazy mad frustrating but also admirable and yes effing courageous! 

His weakness - or area which is not his best strength to be fair - is TACTICS. 
 

Tactics is having the most flexible approach to achieving your end goal and executing that flexible approach when appropriate. 
 

We will not change before the season ends but to do better next year - and 100% if we go up- we will need to add the tactical nous that is either missing or not being utilised because the EPL may just be a little too cynically (but legitimately, professionally as it’s all part of the game) good at stopping us using tactics unless we get lucky. 
 

Edited April 14 by gio1saints

[S-Clarke]

31 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

 

Great analysis as usual S-Clarke but aren't you also looking at the table and thinking maybe, just maybe the automatic spot is still possible.

Not really, because we need to win every game to do it. There is nothing in our makeup which suggests we can do that.

We've just won 2 in a row after not winning in 3. We will drop some more points between now and the end, but the problem for us we cannot afford a single dropped point now. Had we not tossed away the home game against Millwall, or drew with Huddersfield away etc we'd have a tiny, tiny margin for error - but we don't even have that. I guess it makes it easier as we know what we need, but based on what we've shown this season it's just not realistic what so ever.

[SaintsFan86]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

Not really, because we need to win every game to do it. There is nothing in our makeup which suggests we can do that.

We've just won 2 in a row after not winning in 3. We will drop some more points between now and the end, but the problem for us we cannot afford a single dropped point now. Had we not tossed away the home game against Millwall, or drew with Huddersfield away etc we'd have a tiny, tiny margin for error - but we don't even have that. I guess it makes it easier as we know what we need, but based on what we've shown this season it's just not realistic what so ever.

How crucial could that last minute winner for Ipswich Town be.

Had we kept it to 2-2 then we'd have  so much more opportunity, it's definitely a uphill task.. But win against Preston and then Cardiff and who knows.

[stknowle]

4 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Nice assessment. 

I think that the possession based football system we play is a 100% strategic call - not a tactical decision. 

Saints have had tactical managers ( what you might call pragmatists) who will make us play in whatever style is required to win or not lose the game - Mourinho is the prototype but for Saints Puel, Souness, Strachan and Koeman were cast from that mould to a degree - and then there have been our strategic managers who have had a purist philosophy about how they will play - early Ralph, early Poch and now early Russ. 

So far, Russ has shown he is the most dogmatic manager we’ve ever had. He is the most stubborn SOB manager I’ve ever seen persisting with his PB football. It’s crazy mad frustrating but also admirable and yes effing courageous! 

His weakness - or area which is not his best strength to be fair - is TACTICS. 
 

Tactics is having the most flexible approach to achieving your end goal and executing that flexible approach when appropriate. 
 

We will not change. Score season ends but to do better next year - and 100% if we go up- we will need to add the tactical nous that is either missing or not being utilised because the EPL may just be a little too at cynically (but legitimately professionally as it’s all part of the game) good at stopping 
 

I don’t think it’s admirable and courageous whatsoever. You can admire the style when it works well and it gets us 2 nil ahead, but to stick with it no matter what, when it clearly isn’t working, is just plain stupid.

[ScandiSaint]

Have travelled over for the two games this week and couldn't have asked for a better end to match yesterday without the prospect of VAR ruining the moment. 

Some strange subs but not Martin's fault if Armstrong was off the pace for example. Pleased for Downes who worked his socks off. Thought Stephens was good too.

Slightly curious about the Swedish flag hanging in the Itchen, if it was a supporters group who came over?

[markr27]

Win the next two, which will be difficult of course, and it's level pegging with Leeds on points before they play again.

Baby steps to the improbable!

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

The morning after and the euphoria has ebbed some what so can try and be calmer about the whole experience. My main feeling is that the ten minutes before their first goal is why we won’t get promoted and why, if we did, we’d be murdered every week in the premier league.

Having been gifted two soft goals by dreadful defending the game was done - we just needed to be solid and counter. But we persisted with 3 forwards playing fully on their back line, and didn’t ask the wide players to drop. We split Aribo and Smallbone wide, leaving one midfielder. Watford were high pressing with numbers and overran us in midfield.

The gamble was if we broke through the press we’d be on them and on one occasion we were and nearly scored. Of course, the flip side of that gamble is we get overrun leaving every loose ball to be picked up by Watford which is of course where they scored from.

This is why and where Russell is a total moron. This isn’t bravery, it’s idiocy. We were 2 up - why do we need to gamble? Block the midfield and we kill the game - they created nothing, they scored two goals from loose balls in our empty midfield. 
I don’t have an issue with having a philosophy or what it is. I’m not one of the plonkers that boo when we pass it along the back - I get it and it’s good football with a purpose. I also credit Russell with the coaching, with getting players motivated for him and the improvement in our mentality. I also accept Watford were a decent side (apart from their defence which gifted 3 goals).

What I don’t get is the stupidity (and in my opinion arrogance) of not adapting to situations to manage a game. 2 up and for 10 minutes before they scored it was obvious what was happening, who was clearly going to score next, and how we needed to respond to kill it off. He and we did nothing. It wasn’t about the amount of running we did, it was the moronic tactic of having one central midfielder on his own being swamped.  The one adaptation he makes is the length of passing, but he never changes shape to bring solidity. 
Giving away comfortable leads has happened too many times and Russell needs to learn to adapt. If Luis Enrique, Arteta, Tuchel and Xavi aren’t too proud to fiddle with tactics in game I’m not sure why Russell thinks it’s beneath him. Arrogant and stupid, not brave.

Rant over

 

Anyway, decent opposition, not many outstanding performers for us but good displays from most. Adam or Che probably my MOTM. Brooks was ineffective again and needs dropping, Stu was awful (and I’m a fan). Ryan surprisingly good. Jan did well when introduced. Baz still looked flappy but not at fault for the goals. 
Overall with the standard of opposition and the pressure of where the season is at (evidenced by the other 3) I’ll happily take a win, and the feeling of a last gasp winner is immense - brilliant emotions walking out. But yet again it should have been a comfortable win once we were gifted a 2 goal cushion, and yet again we were tactically outdone because the opposition know how we play and that we’re too thick to change it.

It’s euphoria mixed with enormous frustration. Which is pretty much life as a football fan in a sentence.

 

I totally agree with your rant about the lack of ingame management and RM not reacting to periods when we are under the cosh and have been banging on about this myself. If he was sensible enough to include this single aspect I feel we'd have been nailed-on for automatic promotion. It is a glaring tactical weakness.

[Master Bates]

[Chez]

I know its entering Luddite territory, but might we consider reverting to 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 when we have forged a lead or have lost control of a game. Doesn't have to be forever, but just get a midfielder covering the fullback properly. I'm sick of seeing two vs ones down the flanks.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

it really isn't....we let in too many goals and there appears to be little change in that

We've only let in one more goal than the league leaders....

[saintant]

Why are some claiming Downes handled the ball before scoring? I've watched replays and it seems clear to me that the ball brushes his chest before he bundles it home.

[gio1saints]

1 hour ago, stknowle said:

I don’t think it’s admirable and courageous whatsoever. You can admire the style when it works well and it gets us 2 nil ahead, but to stick with it no matter what, when it clearly isn’t working, is just plain stupid.

RM is NOT stupid and realises there are so so many who would wish for more tactical flexibility. Some of his decisions or lack of decisions may suggest that he is stupid - but they are not coming from a place of ignorance. His current refusal to countenance tactical change is not based on stupidity at all and I think you gravely underestimate our manager if you really think that. 
Knowing he knows so many think like you but still does  it- and his players still do it- and the club management still allow it - are they all stupid? Maybe they all are and it’s a stupid way of running a football club. 
But we run this football club stupid for a long time and it’s got us no trophies. 
I personally forgive them trying something different like this and give it 100% support - even if internally I squirm every time ball gets passed along our six yard box! 

[AlexLaw76]

10 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

RM is NOT stupid and realises there are so so many who would wish for more tactical flexibility. Some of his decisions or lack of decisions may suggest that he is stupid - but they are not coming from a place of ignorance. His current refusal to countenance tactical change is not based on stupidity at all and I think you gravely underestimate our manager if you really think that. 
Knowing he knows so many think like you but still does  it- and his players still do it- and the club management still allow it - are they all stupid? Maybe they all are and it’s a stupid way of running a football club. 
But we run this football club stupid for a long time and it’s got us no trophies. 
I personally forgive them trying something different like this and give it 100% support - even if internally I squirm every time ball gets passed along our six yard box! 

[Yozzman]

12 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

Yeah I thought Stephen’s was excellent at CB.

Never been much of a bednarek fan

Bednarek was pretty good during the unbeaten run. Not sure what he did to get dropped.

[SaintNewForest]

10 minutes ago, Yozzman said:

Bednarek was pretty good during the unbeaten run. Not sure what he did to get dropped.

 

He didn't get dropped. He was rested due to a combination of picking up a minor niggle (Blackburn away I think?) and not having had much of a break this season due to internationals. See also Manning & Smallbone who've also come out the team in recent weeks.

[trousers]

14 minutes ago, Yozzman said:

Bednarek was pretty good during the unbeaten run. Not sure what he did to get dropped.

Think he picked up a knock in a preceding international match IIRC?

[coalman]

29 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

RM is NOT stupid and realises there are so so many who would wish for more tactical flexibility. Some of his decisions or lack of decisions may suggest that he is stupid - but they are not coming from a place of ignorance. His current refusal to countenance tactical change is not based on stupidity at all and I think you gravely underestimate our manager if you really think that. 
Knowing he knows so many think like you but still does  it- and his players still do it- and the club management still allow it - are they all stupid? Maybe they all are and it’s a stupid way of running a football club. 
But we run this football club stupid for a long time and it’s got us no trophies. 
I personally forgive them trying something different like this and give it 100% support - even if internally I squirm every time ball gets passed along our six yard box! 

There's a difference between someone being stupid and someone doing stupid things. No one is inherently stupid or clever. It's entirely possible for Russ to do both clever things and stupid things. The post you're replying to said that continuing with something that wasn't working was stupid - which is doing a stupid thing. Have to say you're making a rod for your own back on this forum by continuing to escalate this way whenever someone disagrees with something Russell Martin decides to do.

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, coalman said:

There's a difference between someone being stupid and someone doing stupid things. No one is inherently stupid or clever. It's entirely possible for Russ to do both clever things and stupid things. The post you're replying to said that continuing with something that wasn't working was stupid - which is doing a stupid thing. 

Indeed. Take me for example, I'm highly intelligent yet my wife keeps telling me I do stupid things (like supporting a mediocre football club.... ). And she's always right, of course....

Edited April 14 by trousers

[coalman]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Indeed. Take me for example, I'm highly intelligent yet my wife keeps telling me I do stupid things (like supporting a mediocre football club.... ). And she's always right, of course....

Your wife sounds wise beyond measure

[trousers]

Just now, coalman said:

Your wife sounds wise beyond measure

Hello darling.... What have I told you before about not posting on here...?

[gio1saints]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

Indeed. Take me for example, I'm highly intelligent yet my wife keeps telling me I do stupid things (like supporting a mediocre football club.... ). And she's always right, of course....

Same with my wife. Except she encourages me to overcome the angst I feel with my lifelong love affair with saints. 
Basically how can you continue to love someone who lets you down so regularly so reliably and almost always at the time you need them most not be there? They come back and make promises to do better try harder start a new regime a fresh outlook but it’s always the same ending. And yet I, and obviously so many others here and following Saints worldwide, persist. It’s bizarre. 

Edited April 14 by gio1saints

[coalman]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

Hello darling.... What have I told you before about not posting on here...?

Stop trying to make me your forum wife. It's not going to happen

[stknowle]

34 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

RM is NOT stupid and realises there are so so many who would wish for more tactical flexibility. Some of his decisions or lack of decisions may suggest that he is stupid - but they are not coming from a place of ignorance. His current refusal to countenance tactical change is not based on stupidity at all and I think you gravely underestimate our manager if you really think that. 
Knowing he knows so many think like you but still does  it- and his players still do it- and the club management still allow it - are they all stupid? Maybe they all are and it’s a stupid way of running a football club. 
But we run this football club stupid for a long time and it’s got us no trophies. 
I personally forgive them trying something different like this and give it 100% support - even if internally I squirm every time ball gets passed along our six yard box! 

Usual wordy effort so well done on that.

I don’t think he, the players or the entire club management are stupid and didn’t say that.

I do think the refusal to adapt his style/philosophy when circumstances strongly suggest that would be a sensible thing to do is stupid.

 

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, coalman said:

Stop trying to make me your forum wife. It's not going to happen

Reminds me of my favourite Bernhard Manning 'joke'...

"Take my wife.... No, please, take my wife...." 

(One for the forum youngsters there)

P.s. that only works if you say it in a Bernhard Manning accent. (I'm a right hoot down the pub btw)

Edited April 14 by trousers

[Jack]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

I know its entering Luddite territory, but might we consider reverting to 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 when we have forged a lead or have lost control of a game. Doesn't have to be forever, but just get a midfielder covering the fullback properly. I'm sick of seeing two vs ones down the flanks.

We were talking about this in the pub last night.  Adams and Arma up top would be really effective IMO and we’ve got wingers who could surely play that role. But I’m not sure who you’d put next to Downes in the middle to keep it tight enough and cover the ground, we don’t really have a second obvious CM

[Jack]

Not that Russ would ever consider 4-4-2, it’s far too basic a concept for such an advanced tactician 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

30 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Usual wordy effort so well done on that.

I don’t think he, the players or the entire club management are stupid and didn’t say that.

I do think the refusal to adapt his style/philosophy when circumstances strongly suggest that would be a sensible thing to do is stupid.

 

Agreed. Martin never adapts to match situations whatsoever. It's cost us points all throughout the season, and no doubt will continue to do so. It's not brave at all, its arrogance nothing more. 

[Osvaldorama]

3 hours ago, Chewy said:

The morning after and the euphoria has ebbed some what so can try and be calmer about the whole experience. My main feeling is that the ten minutes before their first goal is why we won’t get promoted and why, if we did, we’d be murdered every week in the premier league.

Having been gifted two soft goals by dreadful defending the game was done - we just needed to be solid and counter. But we persisted with 3 forwards playing fully on their back line, and didn’t ask the wide players to drop. We split Aribo and Smallbone wide, leaving one midfielder. Watford were high pressing with numbers and overran us in midfield.

The gamble was if we broke through the press we’d be on them and on one occasion we were and nearly scored. Of course, the flip side of that gamble is we get overrun leaving every loose ball to be picked up by Watford which is of course where they scored from.

This is why and where Russell is a total moron. This isn’t bravery, it’s idiocy. We were 2 up - why do we need to gamble? Block the midfield and we kill the game - they created nothing, they scored two goals from loose balls in our empty midfield. 
I don’t have an issue with having a philosophy or what it is. I’m not one of the plonkers that boo when we pass it along the back - I get it and it’s good football with a purpose. I also credit Russell with the coaching, with getting players motivated for him and the improvement in our mentality. I also accept Watford were a decent side (apart from their defence which gifted 3 goals).

What I don’t get is the stupidity (and in my opinion arrogance) of not adapting to situations to manage a game. 2 up and for 10 minutes before they scored it was obvious what was happening, who was clearly going to score next, and how we needed to respond to kill it off. He and we did nothing. It wasn’t about the amount of running we did, it was the moronic tactic of having one central midfielder on his own being swamped.  The one adaptation he makes is the length of passing, but he never changes shape to bring solidity. 
Giving away comfortable leads has happened too many times and Russell needs to learn to adapt. If Luis Enrique, Arteta, Tuchel and Xavi aren’t too proud to fiddle with tactics in game I’m not sure why Russell thinks it’s beneath him. Arrogant and stupid, not brave.

Rant over

 

Anyway, decent opposition, not many outstanding performers for us but good displays from most. Adam or Che probably my MOTM. Brooks was ineffective again and needs dropping, Stu was awful (and I’m a fan). Ryan surprisingly good. Jan did well when introduced. Baz still looked flappy but not at fault for the goals. 
Overall with the standard of opposition and the pressure of where the season is at (evidenced by the other 3) I’ll happily take a win, and the feeling of a last gasp winner is immense - brilliant emotions walking out. But yet again it should have been a comfortable win once we were gifted a 2 goal cushion, and yet again we were tactically outdone because the opposition know how we play and that we’re too thick to change it.

It’s euphoria mixed with enormous frustration. Which is pretty much life as a football fan in a sentence.

 

Absolutely spot on, despite the last minute amazing win Martin had an absolute shocker yesterday. 
 

For a while ive wanted to see Stephens at DM, as I think he has the attributes for it. But to randomly throw him there, in the middle of a must win game - whilst leaving Charles not even in the squad… it’s mental. 
 

Absolutely bat shit and arrogance from the manager who nearly cost us yesterday. 
 

Martin does a lot right but also a lot wrong. He needs to learn when to shut games down. 

Edited April 14 by Osvaldorama

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

RM is NOT stupid and realises there are so so many who would wish for more tactical flexibility. Some of his decisions or lack of decisions may suggest that he is stupid - but they are not coming from a place of ignorance. His current refusal to countenance tactical change is not based on stupidity at all and I think you gravely underestimate our manager if you really think that. 
Knowing he knows so many think like you but still does  it- and his players still do it- and the club management still allow it - are they all stupid? Maybe they all are and it’s a stupid way of running a football club. 
But we run this football club stupid for a long time and it’s got us no trophies. 
I personally forgive them trying something different like this and give it 100% support - even if internally I squirm every time ball gets passed along our six yard box! 

“Stupid is as stupid does”

[SW11_Saint]

5 hours ago, Chewy said:

The morning after and the euphoria has ebbed some what so can try and be calmer about the whole experience. My main feeling is that the ten minutes before their first goal is why we won’t get promoted and why, if we did, we’d be murdered every week in the premier league.

Having been gifted two soft goals by dreadful defending the game was done - we just needed to be solid and counter. But we persisted with 3 forwards playing fully on their back line, and didn’t ask the wide players to drop. We split Aribo and Smallbone wide, leaving one midfielder. Watford were high pressing with numbers and overran us in midfield.

The gamble was if we broke through the press we’d be on them and on one occasion we were and nearly scored. Of course, the flip side of that gamble is we get overrun leaving every loose ball to be picked up by Watford which is of course where they scored from.

This is why and where Russell is a total moron. This isn’t bravery, it’s idiocy. We were 2 up - why do we need to gamble? Block the midfield and we kill the game - they created nothing, they scored two goals from loose balls in our empty midfield. 
I don’t have an issue with having a philosophy or what it is. I’m not one of the plonkers that boo when we pass it along the back - I get it and it’s good football with a purpose. I also credit Russell with the coaching, with getting players motivated for him and the improvement in our mentality. I also accept Watford were a decent side (apart from their defence which gifted 3 goals).

What I don’t get is the stupidity (and in my opinion arrogance) of not adapting to situations to manage a game. 2 up and for 10 minutes before they scored it was obvious what was happening, who was clearly going to score next, and how we needed to respond to kill it off. He and we did nothing. It wasn’t about the amount of running we did, it was the moronic tactic of having one central midfielder on his own being swamped.  The one adaptation he makes is the length of passing, but he never changes shape to bring solidity. 
Giving away comfortable leads has happened too many times and Russell needs to learn to adapt. If Luis Enrique, Arteta, Tuchel and Xavi aren’t too proud to fiddle with tactics in game I’m not sure why Russell thinks it’s beneath him. Arrogant and stupid, not brave.

Rant over

 

Anyway, decent opposition, not many outstanding performers for us but good displays from most. Adam or Che probably my MOTM. Brooks was ineffective again and needs dropping, Stu was awful (and I’m a fan). Ryan surprisingly good. Jan did well when introduced. Baz still looked flappy but not at fault for the goals. 
Overall with the standard of opposition and the pressure of where the season is at (evidenced by the other 3) I’ll happily take a win, and the feeling of a last gasp winner is immense - brilliant emotions walking out. But yet again it should have been a comfortable win once we were gifted a 2 goal cushion, and yet again we were tactically outdone because the opposition know how we play and that we’re too thick to change it.

It’s euphoria mixed with enormous frustration. Which is pretty much life as a football fan in a sentence.

 

🎯

[Fabrice29]

3 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Absolutely spot on, despite the last minute amazing win Martin had an absolute shocker yesterday. 
 

For a while ive wanted to see Stephens at DM, as I think he has the attributes for it. But to randomly throw him there, in the middle of a must win game - whilst leaving Charles not even in the squad… it’s mental. 
 

Absolutely bat shit and arrogance from the manager who nearly cost us yesterday. 
 

Martin does a lot right but also a lot wrong. He needs to learn when to shut games down. 

Presumably you don't want Downes dropped so if closing out a game isn't it, when do you want to be playing 2 DM's out of interest?

Criticising someone for doing something you wanted to see for a while is a great effort by the way.

[gio1saints]

3 hours ago, Jack said:

Not that Russ would ever consider 4-4-2, it’s far too basic a concept for such an advanced tactician 

But he’s not an advanced tactician at all. I respect what he is trying to do but it’s also the case, imo, that he is a dogmatic manager inflexibly fixated on one style of play. IMO If he was an advanced tactician we would be promoted already. 

[Jack]

14 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

But he’s not an advanced tactician at all. I respect what he is trying to do but it’s also the case, imo, that he is a dogmatic manager inflexibly fixated on one style of play. IMO If he was an advanced tactician we would be promoted already. 

Whooosh 

[Saint Gifford]

It’s promotion under Adkins all over again. ( if we can make it 🤞)
 

I loved Adkins for the record, but when you look back in hindsight, absolutely the right thing to do letting him go in the big league. 
 

Potchs coming in was a master class, just hope SR have the same drawer of names, and the stones to do it. 
 

Got to go up and I am believing now. But RM unfortunately IMO will be a casualty along with a few of the squad. 
 

In fairness RM has done a great job. But to stay in the prem a few quid and a flexible, willing to adapt manager. 

[AlexLaw76]

 

[lambtiss]

6 hours ago, Yozzman said:

Bednarek was pretty good during the unbeaten run. Not sure what he did to get dropped.

I agree, Stephens is behind him and THB defensively for me. 

[saintstowin]

Being there was some lovely euphoria at the end but we made such hard work of it. I think Watford played well especially in the 2nd half but were beaten at 2 nil and again our play led directly to the opposition coming back. 

From the 20th minute until HT our approach was ridiculous but actually pretty standard for us. 

It was clear that for various reasons our passing, especially out from the back, was not at its best. Even at the start. Lots of heavy touches etc. And increasing Watford pressure. 

Why then did we play any dead ball (GKs, FKs) within 1 second of them being awarded? And then the shortest pass possible. It's like game management is banned. It wasn't that it was quick because someone saw a great out ball. Most times the receiver didn't know who to pass to next. 

If we take time to take a FK in an attacking position I think it's not the worst plan to take a breath and have at least a cursory glance/thought towards what might happen next when we're 6 yards from our own goal. 

I've thought many times this season our lack of thought and/or risk taking near our own goal versus the other end of the pitch is weirdly skewed.

But what a win!

[saintstowin]

And that was next level JS shoe horning by RM in the last 15 minutes. He means business. 

Edited April 14 by saintstowin

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, saintstowin said:

Why then did we play any dead ball (GKs, FKs) within 1 second of them being awarded? And then the shortest pass possible. It's like game management is banned. It wasn't that it was quick because someone saw a great out ball. Most times the receiver didn't know who to pass to next. 

We had one recently when we got a free kick from a corner. We play a short pass within a second. Our opponents have barely got out of our box, and were all present to close it down. Yes, play things quickly to create a tempo. But not by rote, when it's daft to do so.

Edited April 14 by Holmes_and_Watson