Saints 1-1 Boro - Match Thread

[HarvSFC]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

 

It’s literally not true Aribo is more of a goal threat. Smallbone has more goals and more assists. He also creates more chances per game and has more shots per game than Aribo. 
 

So yeah truth and opinions are two different things but just to reiterate Smallbone is literally a bigger goal threat than Aribo when he’s on the pitch.

Smallbone's on 4 goals, Aribo's on 3 goals. The key being Smallbone's played 2489 minutes this season, while Aribo's played 925 minutes. Aribo's also been used this season as a sub to help us see the game out, so driving forward hasn't been his primary role for much of the season.

And I thought Aribo was crap up until December. But, Smallbone's just there. 

If only we had a Schneiderlin/Hammond/Cork next to Downes.

[Midfield_General]

The fact is we don’t deserve to go up automatically. The fundamentals have to be being solid at the back, creating lots going forward and then taking a good majority of those chances you create, so that you can win close games by the odd goal and turn draws into wins. 

We’ve had three key issues all season:

• A dodgy keeper who isn’t good enough at the basics of goalkeeping and lets in too many you’d expect them to save
• Generally not being solid enough defensively, and conceding too many goals overall 
• Not having a proper striker who generally takes chances you’d expect them to score 

We’ve had all season to address this, and we haven’t. When it did look like we’d improved the defence, we then fucked with it when we didn’t need to, and it still didn’t address the goalkeeping problem. 

End result: too many conceded, too many missed, too many draws not turned into wins, therefore not getting the automatics in a very competitive season. 

We’ve had more resources than most to address these things, and they’re all pretty obvious to anyone who watches us every week. We’ve just not done it. That’s why we’ve not won enough games and deserve to be where we are. 

Also stop describing the play-offs as a ‘lottery’. They aren’t. They’re influenced by all the same factors as any other football matches, just with some added pressure. 

Edited March 30 by Midfield_General

[Fabrice29]

6 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

Smallbone's on 4 goals, Aribo's on 3 goals. The key being Smallbone's played 2489 minutes this season, while Aribo's played 925 minutes. Aribo's also been used this season as a sub to help us see the game out, so driving forward hasn't been his primary role for much of the season.

And I thought Aribo was crap up until December. But, Smallbone's just there. 

If only we had a Schneiderlin/Hammond/Cork next to Downes.

Fair points but like you say the reason for the more minutes is because Aribo was crap for a long time. 

Just because he’s improved lately doesn’t mean he’s a better player than someone who has been consistent all season.

[Whitey Grandad]

32 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Also stop describing the play-offs as a ‘lottery’. They aren’t. They’re influenced by all the same factors as any other football matches, just with some added pressure. 

They are a lottery in the sense that the odd mistake, misjudgement or fluke has a bigger influence than it would over a longer run of games. One shirt tug against Derby, for example, ended up being the difference between us.

[beatlesaint]

Funny thing was Stephens getting man of the match from supporters for that goal saving tackle - it was a hell of a tackle in fairness - which shows just how piss poor a game it was. Even more ironic when he was nowhere near the striker when he placed that header into the bottom corner of the net. He was in some weird no mans land marking absolutely nothing at all, which sums Jack up I'm afraid. Still I'm sure RM was delighted to hear his favourite get the award and justify his selection 🙄

[Midfield_General]

I understand that Whitey, but that isn't a lottery. A lottery is a situation whose success or outcome is governed entirely by chance, over which none of the participants can exert any influence whatsoever. Regardless of individual incidents, all the hundreds of decisions that are made and conscious things that influence the outcomes of three matches couldn't be further from a lottery. They're high-pressure games of football that are won and lost due to the same factors as any others. The way they are talked about, anyone would think they just drew straws. 

Edited March 30 by Midfield_General
Meant to quote/ reply

[aintforever]

25 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

I understand that Whitey, but that isn't a lottery. A lottery is a situation whose success or outcome is governed entirely by chance, over which none of the participants can exert any influence whatsoever. Regardless of individual incidents, all the hundreds of decisions that are made and conscious things that influence the outcomes of three matches couldn't be further from a lottery. They're high-pressure games of football that are won and lost due to the same factors as any others. The way they are talked about, anyone would think they just drew straws. 

It’s just a figure of speech fella.

[Midfield_General]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

It’s just a figure of speech fella.

Haha - yeah I know. Getting a bit MLG over here 😜

[Cabrone]

What a frustrating result.

We'll go and beat Ipswich now, that would be such a Saints thing to do.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Fair points but like you say the reason for the more minutes is because Aribo was crap for a long time. 

Just because he’s improved lately doesn’t mean he’s a better player than someone who has been consistent all season.

It's crazy notions like that, that keep Adams in the team. He was good once, so will definitely be good again.

[OldNick]

5 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Funny thing was Stephens getting man of the match from supporters for that goal saving tackle - it was a hell of a tackle in fairness - which shows just how piss poor a game it was. Even more ironic when he was nowhere near the striker when he placed that header into the bottom corner of the net. He was in some weird no mans land marking absolutely nothing at all, which sums Jack up I'm afraid. Still I'm sure RM was delighted to hear his favourite get the award and justify his selection 🙄

wasnt it KWP who let the player have the freedom of St Marys?

[OldNick]

14 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I fully understand that it wasn't aimed at the players. 

What i'm saying is that the crowd stopped chanting in support of the players and drew everyones attention to what was happening in the corner. The players were distracted by this, as multiple people have said they kept looking round to the corner. 

Hey Saint Cark, I have to apologise that I scoffed when you mentioned Josh Sargent being a decent forward. I have been proved wrong on this occasion. Good from you.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

wasnt it KWP who let the player have the freedom of St Marys?

Both he and Stephens.

[Fabrice29]

24 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Both he and Stephens.

It's THB if anyone, Stephens is on the other side of the box ffs.   

Edited March 30 by Fabrice29

[Fabrice29]

5 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

It's crazy notions like that, that keep Adams in the team. He was good once, so will definitely be good again.

I'm not actually sure what point you're making here but for the record I've been pro selling Adams for quite a while now and got mocked on here for suggesting it last summer.

[Chez]

10 hours ago, Chewy said:

Sorry but that’s just not true. The specific “wanker” chant might have only been a few seconds but the whole incident lasted a good few minutes. “Getting sacked in the morning”, “don’t know what you’re doing” some other song … That entire corner were chanting at the stewards when Boro almost scored and would have missed it. Whole thing was bizarre and quite frankly tin pot. I’d expect that from Pompey fans, I’d hope for better from our own.

The atmosphere was fine, that 5 minutes distracted the entire stadium and did filter onto the pitch. You probably didn’t notice because you were too busy being angry at people who had nothing to do with the actual game. You know, the game we needed to win, the game we should be supporting our players in.

Fucking tin pot.

To be clear, the stewards were probably wrong. And more relevant to our defeat were misses by Che, bit of bad luck and poor substitutions not managing the game well. But the incident in the corner didn’t help and added to the unease all around the ground at a critical stage in the game, and quite frankly our season. The game should have been over but it wasn’t and the crowd in the corner were a hindrance, not a help at this stage. Irrespective of whether the stewards were wrong.

Grow up.

fully agree, it was tinpot. I was in that corner and I found the two fellas and their actions cringeworthy. I didn't join in with the crowds displeasure and I had a firm eye on what was going on the pitch. The whole thing had zero impact on the players.  

[davefizzy14]

Very frustrating to draw that yesterday given that we should have won by two or three. Lovely finish from Arma in the first half 🙂  we have to be putting away the chances that we created in the second half. I thought we were pretty solid. We have to be stopping that cross from which we conceded, really frustrating that. Jack Stephens was definitely my man of the match, made numerous blocks and that last ditch tackle was fabulous, proper leader 🙂 we need to win on Monday to still be in the race for automatic promotion - COYR 🙂

Edited March 30 by davefizzy14

[Appy]

Half-Time was weird. 
 

Giving about ten minutes to a shark taken penalties against a dog, then giving about 2 minutes to one of our greatest ever strikers. 

[Matty's Caddy]

10 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Funny thing was Stephens getting man of the match from supporters for that goal saving tackle - it was a hell of a tackle in fairness - which shows just how piss poor a game it was. Even more ironic when he was nowhere near the striker when he placed that header into the bottom corner of the net. He was in some weird no mans land marking absolutely nothing at all, which sums Jack up I'm afraid. Still I'm sure RM was delighted to hear his favourite get the award and justify his selection 🙄

KWP’s man in my opinion 

[Lighthouse]

22 minutes ago, Appy said:

Half-Time was weird. 
 

Giving about ten minutes to a shark taken penalties against a dog, then giving about 2 minutes to one of our greatest ever strikers. 

He was meant to come out earlier but his spaceship got held up at border control.

[vectraman]

14 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Fair points but like you say the reason for the more minutes is because Aribo was crap for a long time. 

Just because he’s improved lately doesn’t mean he’s a better player than someone who has been consistent all season.

You are correct. Smallbone is far more consistent. Consistently meh. If we go up I hope he’s nowhere near the team because he’s a nothing player. He’s lower midtable championship standard. Stoke was his level.

Mind you if we don’t go up he will be exactly what we need as we will be midtable nothings too…

[Lord Duckhunter]

Confirmed everything we knew, we aren’t good enough to go up automatically. Dull game, which we should have won. Che Adams should be kicking himself, but would probably miss. Sulamana same old same old, Smallbone same old same old. Bree did ok, KWP looked off it a bit ( probably due to injury). Keeper dodgy.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Confirmed everything we knew, we aren’t good enough to go up automatically. Dull game, which we should have won. Che Adams should be kicking himself, but would probably miss. Sulamana same old same old, Smallbone same old same old. Bree did ok, KWP looked off it a bit ( probably due to injury). Keeper dodgy.

A decent and succinct summary.

The question is, of course, why aren’t we playing well enough? On paper our squad should easily be good enough. Unfortunately, as the saying goes, the game isn’t played on paper.

[Harry_SFC]

14 hours ago, Matty's Caddy said:

KWP’s man in my opinion 

Did KWP have anyone behind him? Probably good CF play. Get into the space where neither CB is anywhere near you. 

[Farmer Saint]

One main issue for me - and whilst I agree we haven't been as good as we could be at the back - if we had someone decent up front (maybe someone like Ross Stewart) we'd be promoted automatically imo. I think it's as easy as that.

[tdmickey3]

Should us sad fucks expect the lecture putting us in our place today or is she cooking the vegan roast today?

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

A decent and succinct summary.

The question is, of course, why aren’t we playing well enough? On paper our squad should easily be good enough. Unfortunately, as the saying goes, the game isn’t played on paper.

it's quite difficult to put your finger on. The squad obviously has some talent going forward, we have scored 2 goals a game, which is not bad at all, but we've conceded a fair few more than Leeds and Leicester.  

 

The eternal problem at top flight football is getting the balance right between attack and defence. If you lack quality up front you have to commit too may going forward to get goals (or play too many attack minded players) and that leaves you open at the back. We don't lack quality, so that shouldn't happen, but it does.

The manager must then change personnel or the way players push forward. 

[Whitey Grandad]

7 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Did KWP have anyone behind him? Probably good CF play. Get into the space where neither CB is anywhere near you. 

Yes, their number 27 had been free all throughout the game.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Chez said:

it's quite difficult to put your finger on. The squad obviously has some talent going forward, we have scored 2 goals a game, which is not bad at all, but we've conceded a fair few more than Leeds and Leicester.  

 

The eternal problem at top flight football is getting the balance right between attack and defence. If you lack quality up front you have to commit too may going forward to get goals (or play too many attack minded players) and that leaves you open at the back. We don't lack quality, so that shouldn't happen, but it does.

The manager must then change personnel or the way players push forward. 

Indeed. It’s the same dilemma that faces the designers of main battle tanks.

[S-Clarke]

6 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

One main issue for me - and whilst I agree we haven't been as good as we could be at the back - if we had someone decent up front (maybe someone like Ross Stewart) we'd be promoted automatically imo. I think it's as easy as that.

Let's not forget we've got 19 goal Adam Armstrong in attack for us, Ipswich don't have an out and out prolific forward - neither do Leicester or Leeds, it's not about that in my opinion.

We always score goals, but when you look back at some of our wins or defeats (4-3, 3-2, 4-2, 1-4, 0-5 etc) we give up way too much in most games, so we put ourselves in a position where we constantly unrealistically need to hit more than 2 goals a game to have a shot of winning. That's what's done us in my opinion, scoring and chance creation wise we don't have a problem. We just give up way, way, way too much against everyone we play - not so much individual limitations, more so the aggressive tactical approach and how often we get countered on.

We concede opportunities to the lesser sides, but they're not as good defensively to repel us in attack so we can get those 2+ goals we need to ultimately win and no one has a problem. Against the better sides though it's not realistic to expect to have a chance of winning if we're giving them 2 or 3 free goals in the game.

Edited March 31 by S-Clarke

[Fabrice29]

8 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

A decent and succinct summary.

The question is, of course, why aren’t we playing well enough? On paper our squad should easily be good enough. Unfortunately, as the saying goes, the game isn’t played on paper.

To go up automatically? Can we nip this weird narrative in the bud please? We finished behind Leeds and Leicester last season, they are the two that on paper should be easily good enough to be promoted automatically. Aim and expectation is rightly to go up, we're competing to do that and will as a minimum have 3 games to do it at the end of the season. Absolutely no evidence or right that our squad is easily good enough to go up automatically.

[Give it to Ron]

42 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

To go up automatically? Can we nip this weird narrative in the bud please? We finished behind Leeds and Leicester last season, they are the two that on paper should be easily good enough to be promoted automatically. Aim and expectation is rightly to go up, we're competing to do that and will as a minimum have 3 games to do it at the end of the season. Absolutely no evidence or right that our squad is easily good enough to go up automatically.

Both Leeds and Leicester have better forwards than we do and greater choices. We rolled the dice with Stewart and lost.

[CamSaint]

2 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

Both Leeds and Leicester have better forwards than we do and greater choices. We rolled the dice with Stewart and lost.

And yet we've scored the same number of goals (74) as Leicester having played one less match than them (the two of us are the league's joint second top scorers). We've also scored 2 more goals than Leeds having played 2 games less. Only Ipswich (81) have scored more than us and they have played 2 more matches.

Even in our last Championship promotion season after 37 games we had only scored 68 goals (6 goals less than currently) despite having Ricky Lambert Goal Machine supplemented by Billy Sharp. There is no question that we have often been profligate in front of goal this season and in some games it has cost us (like yesterday), but the number of chances created combined with the number of goals we have actually scored indicates a certain level of attacking prowess.

It is also interesting that at this stage in our last Championship season we had lost the same number of games as this season and drawn one more than this season so had 72 points compared to the current 74. Just as well there weren't other teams performing to the same level as Ipswich, Leeds & Leicester are this season!

[Osvaldorama]

11 hours ago, CamSaint said:

And yet we've scored the same number of goals (74) as Leicester having played one less match than them (the two of us are the league's joint second top scorers). We've also scored 2 more goals than Leeds having played 2 games less. Only Ipswich (81) have scored more than us and they have played 2 more matches.

Even in our last Championship promotion season after 37 games we had only scored 68 goals (6 goals less than currently) despite having Ricky Lambert Goal Machine supplemented by Billy Sharp. There is no question that we have often been profligate in front of goal this season and in some games it has cost us (like yesterday), but the number of chances created combined with the number of goals we have actually scored indicates a certain level of attacking prowess.

It is also interesting that at this stage in our last Championship season we had lost the same number of games as this season and drawn one more than this season so had 72 points compared to the current 74. Just as well there weren't other teams performing to the same level as Ipswich, Leeds & Leicester are this season!

I am 100% confident that Adkins team would beat Martin’s team 

 

[Farmer Saint]

4 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

I am 100% confident that Adkins team would beat Martin’s team 

 

Well yes, it was a far more talented team than we have now - if you created a team using both sides you would end up with many more from the Adkins side. 

Edited April 1 by Farmer Saint

[SNSUN]

23 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Well yes, it was a far more talented team than we have now - if you created a team using both sides you would end up with many more from the Adkins side. 

I started trying to make a team of the two season's players and it got difficult. The best I came up with was:

Davis (No brainer)

KWP (No brainer)

Fonte (No brainer) 

Hooijveld/THB/Bednarek (OK that's a tricky one, Hooijveld was well suited to the nPC. THB is going to be England material and Bednarek is a Polish International. I'd possibly rather have Hooiveld for the art of simple defending and the odd goal he got that won us points).

Fox (Positionally as bad as Manning but with better assists)

Morgan (No brainer)

Hammond/Cork/Downes (tough one)

Lallana (No Brainer)

AA (No brainer)

Lambert (No brainer)

Guly (Because it's Guly!)

 

[Farmer Saint]

5 hours ago, SNSUN said:

I started trying to make a team of the two season's players and it got difficult. The best I came up with was:

Davis (No brainer)

KWP (No brainer)

Fonte (No brainer) 

Hooijveld/THB/Bednarek (OK that's a tricky one, Hooijveld was well suited to the nPC. THB is going to be England material and Bednarek is a Polish International. I'd possibly rather have Hooiveld for the art of simple defending and the odd goal he got that won us points).

Fox (Positionally as bad as Manning but with better assists)

Morgan (No brainer)

Hammond/Cork/Downes (tough one)

Lallana (No Brainer)

AA (No brainer)

Lambert (No brainer)

Guly (Because it's Guly!)

 

So 7 to 9 from the Adkins team. Shows how well Martin is doing with this side. 

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

So 7 to 9 from the Adkins team. Shows how well Martin is doing with this side. 

Or... 

# Devil's advocate klaxon #

...it highlights the management's (of which Martin is part) poor recruitment acumen in building a team that is so much more deficient than Adkins' team...?