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Financial Results 22/23

EBS1980

By EBS1980
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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 06:51, EBS1980 said:

a review of our 22/23 accounts here. Made a loss of £87M in our relegation year.

still owe £93M on player purchases but only due £4M on player sales 😬

A possible £62M also due in add ons for player purchases 


https://x.com/kieranmaguire/status/1764534233710702707?s=46&t=OQrvtqxdga34G9SV_nKtNQ

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You can see why SR wanted to recoup as much money as possible last Summer, and didn't want to lay out much on new purchases. 

  • Like 2
Barsiem

Barsiem

Posted
Posted

Not really surprising. We spend £100m on new players that year.  Recouped most of that through sales this year so hopefully we're ok, but who knows with football finances 

  • Like 1
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 09:05, Barsiem said:

Not really surprising. We wasted £100m on new players that year.  Recouped most of that through sales this year so hopefully we're ok, but who knows with football finances 

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corrected it 

disconnect

disconnect

Posted
Posted

I think we've probably rectified some of it this season, but doesn't sound great. Orsic and Onuachu complete wastes of money.

For comparison, presumably Leeds having made a loss on transfers the last 3 seasons is pretty bad too - £59m loss (21/22), £37m loss (22/23) and £2m loss this season. 

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 10:52, disconnect said:

I think we've probably rectified some of it this season, but doesn't sound great. Orsic and Onuachu complete wastes of money.

For comparison, presumably Leeds having made a loss on transfers the last 3 seasons is pretty bad too - £59m loss (21/22), £37m loss (22/23) and £2m loss this season. 

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The silver lining is we've been saved by our sales in the summer. Goodness knows what we would have done without the wedge we got for Lavia and Livramento. 

  • Like 3
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 10:47, CB Fry said:

It means we need to get promoted this year. Not “well we did quite well considering”.

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Yeah, but given how much of a fanfare was made of it, the 25 game unbeaten run will count for something if we don't get promoted, surely...? ;)

  • Like 2
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 13:08, Farmer Saint said:

How much in wages do we think we'll get off the P&L this Summer? 

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Will the wages for the people on loan count? I suppose the positive of the is if it's really bad we can just let them leave without replacement and we immediately lose the wage burden. 

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 13:23, hypochondriac said:

Will the wages for the people on loan count? I suppose the positive of the is if it's really bad we can just let them leave without replacement and we immediately lose the wage burden. 

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I would assume a proportion of it will - I wouldn't have thought teams are paying the full amount of wages - but also we have quite a few players out of contract that are on high wages (McCarthy, Adams, Armstrong), so on their own that's approx £10m pa. 

 

Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)

We have debts of £116m that need to be paid in next 12 months and a further £95m that does not need to be paid back this year.  A further £62m may have to be paid out depending (mostly) on appearances.

We have about £14m in the bank and we are owed another £24m. Accounts doesn't include players sales (and expenditure) during the summer.

Dragon pumped £85m into the club via a share issue.

We paid £18m of interest (on bank loan and transfers). That's £350,000 a week.

Wage bill was £106m (plus £15m N.I costs).

 

 

Edited by Chez
  • Sad 1
bpsaint

bpsaint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 14:14, Chez said:

We have debts of £116m that need to be paid in next 12 months and a further £95m that does need to be paid back this year.  A further £62m may have to be paid out depending (mostly) on appearances.

We have about £14m in the bank and we are owed another £24m. Accounts doesn't include players sales (and expenditure) during the summer.

Dragon pumped £85m into the club via a share issue.

We paid £18m of interest (on bank loan and transfers). That's £350,000 a week.

Wage bill was £106m (plus £15m N.I costs).

 

 

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So what you’re saying is if we don’t go up this year we’re pretty fucked.

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 14:14, Chez said:

We have debts of £116m that need to be paid in next 12 months and a further £95m that does need to be paid back this year.  A further £62m may have to be paid out depending (mostly) on appearances.

We have about £14m in the bank and we are owed another £24m. Accounts doesn't include players sales (and expenditure) during the summer.

Dragon pumped £85m into the club via a share issue.

We paid £18m of interest (on bank loan and transfers). That's £350,000 a week.

Wage bill was £106m (plus £15m N.I costs).

 

 

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I would assume the sales last Summer should cover a lot of the next years liabilities. 

Tbf, this club's awful transfer record over the last 5 years has really come back to bite.

  • Like 1
Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 14:18, bpsaint said:

So what you’re saying is if we don’t go up this year we’re pretty fucked.

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I am mindful of a scene in the film Interstella where Cooper says: What happens if he blows the airlock?

TARS replies: Nothing good.

That said, the figures look bad because we spent a shit load in January to try and keep us up - that we wouldn't have spent otherwise. The player sales this summer were significant though and next years accounts will show where we really stand.  The covid loan still hangs over us and is growing (by £10m this year). It looks like £41m of it will have to be paid off within this financial year. That's a big number. 

Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 04/03/2024 at 07:49, Farmer Saint said:

You can see why SR wanted to recoup as much money as possible last Summer, and didn't want to lay out much on new purchases. 

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I mean, pretty much all self inflicted by Sports Republic. Imagine another scenario where they'd not undermined and sacked Ralph (the best manager of their tenure by far), and instead actually gone out and purchased a striker for circa £30M. Actually, i'm not fussy, Openda for £6-8M would have done that summer.... Now granted, thats just one of many possible futures that would have likely seen us still in the premier league - and with a a far better outlook for the years ahead than we have now 😰

....

Woops.

Ah well, its fun being the top dogs in the 2nd tier, seeing all our best players and academy prospects being poached, and gradually losing our competitive edge the longer we stay down here 🤣

Edited by Saint86
  • Like 2
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 15:01, Saint86 said:

I mean, pretty much all self inflicted by Sports Republic. Imagine another scenario where they'd not undermined and sacked Ralph (the best manager of their tenure by far), and instead actually gone out and purchased a striker for circa £30M. Actually, i'm not fussy, Openda for £6-8M would have done that summer.... Now granted, thats just one of many possible futures that would have likely seen us still in the premier league - and with a a far better outlook for the years ahead than we have now 😰

....

Woops.

Ah well, its fun being the top dogs in the 2nd tier, seeing all our best players and academy prospects being poached, and gradually losing our competitive edge the longer we stay down here 🤣

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I'm enjoying this season more than any season since Koeman tbf. 

  • Like 1
SaintsLoyal

SaintsLoyal

Posted
Posted

Amazing the club are going to spend a hefty wedge on alleged ground improvements that simply don’t need to be done.

the commercial revenue is woeful as well.

  • Like 2
Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 16:47, SaintsLoyal said:

Amazing the club are going to spend a hefty wedge on alleged ground improvements that simply don’t need to be done.

the commercial revenue is woeful as well.

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The commercial revenue has been dreadful for years now. You'd like to think Parsons is really looking at this..

Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 16:29, Farmer Saint said:

I'm enjoying this season more than any season since Koeman tbf. 

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The trouble is these types of seasons will not last in Championship when the parachute payments end and the EFL FFP rules kick in. There will be more adjustment needed in types of players Saints would be able to afford and keep so Say goodbye to the KWPs, hello to more of the Mannings and Any decent young prospect being bought. 

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 04/03/2024 at 19:03, Doctoroncall said:

The trouble is these types of seasons will not last in Championship when the parachute payments end and the EFL FFP rules kick in. There will be more adjustment needed in types of players Saints would be able to afford and keep so Say goodbye to the KWPs, hello to more of the Mannings and Any decent young prospect being bought. 

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Oh absolutely, the same as being at the bottom end of the PL. We always lose decent young prospects. 

But yes, I know what you're saying - however in a vacuum I am really enjoying this year, and that's what enjoying football is about. 

Edited by Farmer Saint
  • Like 1
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/03/2024 at 21:56, Mixedkebab said:

If we do go up SR will have to spend about £100m to have a chance of staying up.
 

 

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Doubt we'll be able to...looking at those numbers, even with what we've brought in this season in transfers we may still fall should of FFP. 

 

Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)

FFP / PSR is a sham in any case. It exists solely to cement the top clubs in near unassailable positions, with commercial revenues far in excess of anything upstart clubs can muster, and with almost guaranteed access to the UEFA millions as well.

We got screwed by the big clubs before, Leicester at least got Champions League money and a league title before eventually falling away, and Brighton will be the next team to be stripped and sent packing.

Clubs like Newcastle and Villa (with mega rich owners that can underwrite any debts) will not be allowed to threaten the established elite (unlike City, Chelsea, Blackburn etc did historically), and its all out of fear of the big clubs breaking away to form a super league. Meanwhile Uefa have essentially created one anyway with their new champions league, and all that is really happening is an ever greater long term competitive divide between the top 5-6 clubs and the rest of the league. Just look at united, shite for years, minimal prize money domestically or continentally, awful transfer business over nearly a decade... and yet Villa dare to have one expensive summer and they face being slapped down, whilst United have an uncompetitive spend which is protected almost indefinitely because of their established "big club" commercial clout.

If they don't rebalance these finances controls fairly, they'll kill football for most people.

Edited by Saint86
  • Like 4
Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

Posted
Posted (edited)

Some clubs live beyond their means just as some people live beyond their means. External controls are necessary because these clubs and people seemingly can't help themselves. The whole point of regulation is to curb their excesses and return them to a sustainable pathway.  The temptations are self evident for both. 

It helps nobody if clubs end up destitute or going out of business. The Premier League financial model is deeply flawed and is in danger of spiralling out of control. There is mounting evidence that a tipping point is fast approaching. Lower wages and lower transfer fees must be the goal but how you get there is problematic.  

Edited by Charlie Wayman
Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
  On 05/03/2024 at 10:19, Charlie Wayman said:

Some clubs live beyond their means just as some people live beyond their means. External controls are necessary because these clubs and people seemingly can't help themselves. The whole point of regulation is to curb their excesses and return them to a sustainable pathway.  The temptations are self evident for both. 

It helps nobody if clubs end up destitute or going out of business. The Premier League financial model is deeply flawed and is in danger of spiralling out of control. There is mounting evidence that a tipping point is fast approaching. Lower wages and lower transfer fees must be the goal but how you get there is problematic.  

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Lower wages, lower transfer fees, simple, works in other sports and countries. Set a wage limit, then set a limit each club can spend. I know the Aleague is championship standard, but it works for them. The football authorities need to act now, as you said, the tipping point is here.

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 05/03/2024 at 10:33, Gingeletiss said:

Lower wages, lower transfer fees, simple, works in other sports and countries. Set a wage limit, then set a limit each club can spend. I know the Aleague is championship standard, but it works for them. The football authorities need to act now, as you said, the tipping point is here.

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But obviously you can't do that around the world? So it just means any decent player will go and play in another country. 

In no sports do you have a wage limit for players. You have salary caps for the whole club, which could work, but then you need a full re-structure on transfer fees (ie get rid of them), young talent - essentially you would need a worldwide adoption of the NFL model,which is just not possible. 

Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
  On 05/03/2024 at 10:41, Farmer Saint said:

But obviously you can't do that around the world? So it just means any decent player will go and play in another country. 

In no sports do you have a wage limit for players. You have salary caps for the whole club, which could work, but then you need a full re-structure on transfer fees (ie get rid of them), young talent - essentially you would need a worldwide adoption of the NFL model,which is just not possible. 

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You sort of can, if FIFA had any balls, if they made that the rule, then all those under their umbrella would have to abide by it.

  • Like 2
ally_uk

ally_uk

Posted
Posted

What I don't understand is the likes of Everton have been deducted points... 

Surely City and the likes or Chelsea should be relegated? How do they continue to get away with it? 

That's why I couldn't give a damm if we go into the Premier league it's corrupt to the core. 

 

 

  • Like 1

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